U.S. Launch Control...Warranty Issues?

[B.Watts]

Does anyone know if the use of the 1800rpm U.S. launch control voids the warranty after 30 uses the same as the European 3000rpm launch control?

Thanks.

[TC M3]

Originally posted by BMWRacerITS
Does anyone know if the use of the 1800rpm U.S. launch control voids the warranty after 30 uses the same as the European 3000rpm launch control?

Thanks.

In the US the RPS reach only 1800rpms, and can only be done 7 times than you'll void the warranty on the tranny.

[B.Watts]

Is that rumor or do you have that documented from a source?

[BMWguy206]

I just hooked up a BMW Diagnostic Computer to my E46 M3 SMGII this afternoon at work and could not find any limits or features to detect the amount of use of the Launch Control. I checked it in the DME and in the SMG control unit.

My only guess is that the guys from BMW NA can extract it from either the hex codes or with their own computer.

[SDbboy]

7 times?? no thats an utter falsehood

There is no limit on the US versions, confirmed from the mechanics at the dealership I got my car serviced at.

Brian

[TC M3]

Originally posted by dallasbboy
7 times?? no thats an utter falsehood

There is no limit on the US versions, confirmed from the mechanics at the dealership I got my car serviced at.

Brian

I work with BMW, and they have a policy of 7 times for the launch control in US, I know it sucks!

[Kevlar]

Ok, so we have one person from BMW saying there is no such warranty and we have another person from BMW saying 7times then your SOL.

[B.Watts]

Originally posted by TC M3
I work with BMW, and they have a policy of 7 times for the launch control in US, I know it sucks!

What's your position at BMW? Can you show me a document that outlines this policy of 7 launches?

[Kevlar]

everybody got real quiet huh?

[RSKeisuke]

There is no official launch control in the US, anyway. If it's not a real feature and they don't tell you there is some limit, there probably isn't one.

[TC M3]

Originally posted by BMWRacerITS


What's your position at BMW? Can you show me a document that outlines this policy of 7 launches?

BMW Marketing Dpt, BMW AG import export. I'll print out the notice of the 7 times limit. But really if you guys don't believe me, do more than 7 launches and take the car the dealership and ask for the DME print out.

[BMWguy206]

TC M3 is already one step ahead of me. I just started my own investigation this evening because I'm most certain this issue will come up here in the service dept.

Only thing I've done so far is read the technical manual on the SMG II. Did you know there are two modes for launch control? One is called "racing start" and the second is called "burnout" mode. Anyways, the book said that too many uses of this feature will cause premature wear to the clutch and drivetrain.. DUH.

I talked to the shop foreman about this and he got curious about it too so him and I looked up for any features in the DISPlus Diagnostic computer but didnt get very far because we didnt have it hooked up to a vehicle.

We then called our warranty admistrator and he didnt know if the SMG or DME control unit has a counter and he's gonna find out tomorrow.

[TC M3]

Originally posted by Jon Caldito
TC M3 is already one step ahead of me. I just started my own investigation this evening because I'm most certain this issue will come up here in the service dept.

Only thing I've done so far is read the technical manual on the SMG II. Did you know there are two modes for launch control? One is called "racing start" and the second is called "burnout" mode. Anyways, the book said that too many uses of this feature will cause premature wear to the clutch and drivetrain.. DUH.

I talked to the shop foreman about this and he got curious about it too so him and I looked up for any features in the DISPlus Diagnostic computer but didnt get very far because we didnt have it hooked up to a vehicle.

We then called our warranty admistrator and he didnt know if the SMG or DME control unit has a counter and he's gonna find out tomorrow.

Right, I'm sure if you ask any saleman or even some mechanics, they will not have a clue of what you're talking about (about the 7 launches). From what I got to know, in Europe, you can perform 30 times w/o voiding the warranty.

[BMWguy206]

About the two modes in Launch Control.

"Racing Start" mode: Vehicle is in S6 mode, put shifter knob forward and SLOWLY depress the gas pedal to the floor. Engine speed will increase to predetermine setting and let go of the shift knob to launch. The clutch will then pulsate up to 8x per second and during the launch the rear wheel speed sensors are being compared to the front wheel speed sensors for optimim launch (by pulsating the clutch)

"Burnout" mode: Same thins like "racing start" mode but the gas pedal must be depressed very quickly. This will release the clutch totally and completely when the shift lever is release. In this mode the rear tires are very likely to loose traction and the rear of the car becomes unstable. Wheel speeds are ignored and the driver is in total control of wheel spin. WOO HOO!

[iwannadinanm3]

damn that's so gay, why does europe get it 30 times, when they launch at 3k rpm, and we here in the u.s. get only 7 times when we launch at only 1800 rpm, makes no sense, wouldn't the europeans put MUCH more wear than we would on our cars? Oh well.

[Kevlar]

US diplomatics, lawyers and a society that is willing to cry bloody murder when their clutch dies out 1000 miles of doing burnouts.

[TC M3]

Originally posted by badbadm

Excellent information. So tell us, what is the document that specifies 7 launch limit for the US market???? Do tell.

I don't think you believe me.:)

[Hyperion]

I think you people have not done your home work.

Go pick up a copy of TotalBMW, they recently wrote an article on the SMG II. So did Bimmer Magazine, and both came up with the same limits saying that you could only do 7 hole shots, or quick launches. This is deffinetly not NEW information, and has been around months before the E46 M3 SMG II even hit the streets. BMW claims that launching so violently is too tramautic on the engine and will cause early failure, and that is why they put a number limit on how many they will accept and still allow the car to be under warranty.

This is not new information, and just because you cannot find the big fat numbers where it says how many you have preformed does not mean that the car is not keeping count.

[TC M3]

Originally posted by Hyperion
I think you people have not done your home work.

Go pick up a copy of TotalBMW, they recently wrote an article on the SMG II. So did Bimmer Magazine, and both came up with the same limits saying that you could only do 7 hole shots, or quick launches. This is deffinetly not NEW information, and has been around months before the E46 M3 SMG II even hit the streets. BMW claims that launching so violently is too tramautic on the engine and will cause early failure, and that is why they put a number limit on how many they will accept and still allow the car to be under warranty.

This is not new information, and just because you cannot find the big fat numbers where it says how many you have preformed does not mean that the car is not keeping count.

Thank you, you got my word!:)

[B.Watts]

TotalBMW and Bimmer are definitely not the most accurate publications on the planet. They'll write rumor and state it as fact if it makes for a good story. I still want to see some literature FROM BMW on this! T.C., find a scanner if you don't mind.

Why would the European limit be THIRTY when it launches at a MUCH HARSHER rpm, yet the U.S. limit is SEVEN and it doesn't really launch so much as just start the car with a bit of a squeal.? Something is really fishy about that.

Hey Jon C., let us know as soon as you get some more info.

[SDbboy]

Attached are scanned copies of the dealer notes on SMG II. No mention of any sort of limit on launches or the existance of two launch modes, although I have experienced both modes in real life.

I've used Launch Control 4 times so far, until I see something explicitly telling me that 7 times will void my warranty, I will keep doing launches here and there without worries. There is no way BMW can void your warranty without having some sort of official documentation in place that communicates their policy on LC.

E46 M3 Owners manual (LC not even mentioned).

Dealer notes (LC mentioned but no warnings or limits declared)

http://www.dallas.net/~bboy/m3/aa.jpg
http://www.dallas.net/~bboy/m3/aa2.jpg

Brian

[Hyperion]

I read up on the topic some more, and it appears BMW changed their policy.

They were originally going to void the warranty on US cars, in much the same way that they do with the European cars. However, over here in the US, they do not allow car companies to void the warranty on a car just because it was over used. This forced BMW to change its policy, and the launch control mode. They down graded it to a point where it should not pose any harm to the transmission, and it appears you can do it as much as you want.

However, I guarantee the car still keeps track of how many you do, and I am sure it would help BMW in making a decision to allow for a warranty claim or not. Just as Corvette had their little so called "black box" which no one was supposed to know about, even though they claim it only records accident data, and yet they do not go around collecting them after the car has been totaled.

[TC M3]

Originally posted by badbadm

Yes TC, help us out here. IF you don't own a scanner, just tell us which document it is, and we'll find it I'm sure. Thanks in advance.


I already asked BMW for the copy of the notice, I should be getting next week. As soon as I get it I'll post here for you guys.

[Kos-motate139]

Can anyone make a guess as to how difficult it would be to replace the clutch on an SMG car -- same as a manual, or trickier?

[BMWguy206]

MUCH MUCH more complicated.

Warranty pays about 8hrs and thats how much the technician gets paid IF he can do it within that time period.

Customer pay cost could be 12-15hrs.

Warranty for replacing a clutch on a standard 6spd (non SMG) is about 6.5hrs. Customer pay can be about 10hrs.

[Bob ///M3]

.

[Bob ///M3]

No, there sure isn't anything mentioned about that. The only caution mentioned is about it being hard on the clutch and driveline...

Bob ///M3


Originally posted by badbadm
Nothing in there about the warranty, huh?

[TC M3]

People, don't think I forgot about what you guys asked, I'm still waiting for the notice....:)

[Kevlar]

Originally posted by badbadm
BUMP.

Kudos to badbadm for keeping on top of this...

[themadhatter]

isn't there any relation to US-Spec cars getting a 4 year warranty vs Europe with only a 1-2 year warranty?

I'd figure that you can beat your car 30 times (once per hour as I'm told) and still make it past the warranty period - then you're SOL.

The US spec car has to make it to 4 years (or mileage) before it can poop out.

[TC M3]

I just came from the BMW factory in SC and they told me that there is a big issue "inside" BMW regarding the launch control. They told me that a document will be released pretty soon and that the limit of launches will probably be raised to 15. I'll keep posting here the news about this issue or as soon as I get the notice I'll post it here:)

[shahin]

dude your the facking biggest bullshitter ever. BMW never told its customers about this limit and they sure as fack aint voiding my transmission warranty because of their retardation.

[badbadm]

I'm not sure what that guy meant, but I do think TC M3 was wayy wrong about the 7 launch limit.

[dysphunxion]

Yeah there may be a debate going on internally at BMW now, but nowhere did anything say my friend Bill can't use the launch control to his hearts content. We were assured by the dealer when we picked it up, and we will be again when I get mine. He uses his regularly, mostly just to show other people. The car scoots well enough just mashing the gas in first, there's no real need for it unless your drag racing anyway. Holding 4 hot pizzas while a maniac is running rampant through S6 and whining about his leather is a wholly entertaining experience as it is.

[TC M3]

Originally posted by shahin
dude your the facking biggest bullshitter ever. BMW never told its customers about this limit and they sure as fack aint voiding my transmission warranty because of their retardation.

Believe what you want buddy.:smash:

[B.Watts]

So, where's this "proof" you've been promising?

[badbadm]

Originally posted by BMWRacerITS
So, where's this "proof" you've been promising?
I second that request. The info would be really useful.

[TC M3]

Originally posted by badbadm

I second that request. The info would be really useful. Believe me, I didn't forget. I'm still waiting for it also:(

[mcoupejeff]

Hi everyone, I am new to this specific forum, as you can probably tell from my name I am an Mcoupe owner. However, I realize that everyone here is going nuts about the warrantee issue, I am more curious as to when the US cars had any version of launch control, I was under the assumption we did not have such a mode on the SMGII cars. Anyway, When I read about the whole sequential thing, and launch control I was so excited, then i heard we were not getting it, I am considering trading in my Mcoupe for an M3 with smg if there is in fact launch control. Also, could someone please explain excactly the differences between our version and europes other than the rpm's. Also, has anyone toyed with the idea of somehow having the higher rev limit put into the "brains" of the US spec M3? I'm sorry this is so long. Thanks in advance for all the help.


sincerely,

jeffrey

[B.Watts]

The only real difference between the U.S. and Euro version is the launch RPM.

As for changing that RPM, I'm betting there's a way to do it by either A) somehow incorporating a Euro computer into your system or B) getting Jim Conforti to do it (but that would require that he even be interested, and I'm guessing it would cost well into the 6 figures).

[jim m]

Originally posted by TC M3
Believe me, I didn't forget. I'm still waiting for it also:(

Any info yet :95 ?

-jim

[SDbboy]

Originally posted by mcoupejeff
Hi everyone, I am new to this specific forum, as you can probably tell from my name I am an Mcoupe owner. However, I realize that everyone here is going nuts about the warrantee issue, I am more curious as to when the US cars had any version of launch control, I was under the assumption we did not have such a mode on the SMGII cars. Anyway, When I read about the whole sequential thing, and launch control I was so excited, then i heard we were not getting it, I am considering trading in my Mcoupe for an M3 with smg if there is in fact launch control. Also, could someone please explain excactly the differences between our version and europes other than the rpm's. Also, has anyone toyed with the idea of somehow having the higher rev limit put into the "brains" of the US spec M3? I'm sorry this is so long. Thanks in advance for all the help.


sincerely,

jeffrey

Jeffrey,
The US 2001-2003 M3 cars do have launch control. I have used it a few times myself and it works very well for optimum off the line acceleration. If you do trade in your M coupe make sure you stay away from 11/01 built M3s they all have bad connecting rod bearings and will eventually require a new engine.

Brian

[jim m]

Originally posted by TC M3
People, don't think I forgot about what you guys asked, I'm still waiting for the notice....:)

Has it come yet? It's been a while since you first brought it up.

-jim

[Kevlar]

Apparently there is a federal law preventing the voiding of the warranty because of that same problem (but the popular science article was wrong on so many other things, I wouldn't be suprised if they made that up to).

So, supposedly... clutch failure will be treated as clutch failure on a regular 6spd car. If it is excessive they will replace it for free, if it is normaly... you'll be out about a $1k

[themadhatter]

to my knowledge, a warranty can be voided is the vehicle is used outside of it's intended use such as commercial duty (taxi etc) - any competitive event - or driver neglect/abuse (never changin the oil etc).

[aus]

I've been told that if you put the SMG in S6 and very slowly depress the gas pedal, it'll go past the 1800RPM launch limit to about as high as you'd like. Jon Caldito replied in a separate post that it did work for him too.
I just wonder if it's recorded in the computer that this happened like on the Euro cars. There could be some major warranty issues if people start doing some monster launches at a drag strip... all day long... sound like anyone here???

[digitalgm]

I talked to my bmw dealer and they said after 3 times if I do not take it to the dealer for maintinence it will void my warranty .... :dunno

AdamR

[SDbboy]

Originally posted by digitalgm
I talked to my bmw dealer and they said after 3 times if I do not take it to the dealer for maintinence it will void my warranty .... :dunno

AdamR

Get used to being lied to and receiving other bad things from your dealer.

Brian

[JMWeb]

Originally posted by dallasbboy


Get used to being lied to and receiving other bad things from your dealer.

Brian

I agree.. I have already been lied to a couple of times.. Thanks to my friend kevin, i know the truth..

[themadhatter]

Originally posted by digitalgm
I talked to my bmw dealer and they said after 3 times if I do not take it to the dealer for maintinence it will void my warranty .... :dunno

AdamR

the sales guy told you this or the service guy? That's pretty f'ed up that they'd bs you like that.

you have the right to service your car any way you wish. you can do all the work at your house if you wanted to.

[B.Watts]

Originally posted by TC M3
People, don't think I forgot about what you guys asked, I'm still waiting for the notice....:)

**Insert Jeopardy Music Here**

[SDbboy]

Not gonna happen cause this "notice" does not exist.

Brian

[HR-M3]

Originally posted by Kevlar
So, supposedly... clutch failure will be treated as clutch failure on a regular 6spd car. If it is excessive they will replace it for free, if it is normaly... you'll be out about a $1k

Lemme me make sure I understand this...

So, if you destroy the clutch - as in fry the shiet out of it - then the replacement is covered under warranty, but if you just burn it a bit, and it starts to slip, then you have to pay for it?

Did I mis-understand?

Just to add my $0.02 to the discussion - I do not have my warranty book in front of me, so don't quote me, but doesn't say something to the effect that if the car is raced, then the warranty is null-and-void?

That's sort of clear cut, and should be easy to understand by all owners, right? It's stated there, so we all live with it...

Now, does the Warranty book or the Manual say anything to the effect that if you do any one of those two quick starts for more than X number, your warranty is shot?

My point is that if you do not know about this, and have not been told in writing, then BMW of NA has no foundation to cancel the warranty.

I'm not a lawyer, but it seems you cannot be held responsible for something you did not know about - it's not like "you ought to have known" as in lying or driving at 100mph through a town because no-one put a sign saying the limit was only 30mph.

Do I make sense or have I muddled the issue?

I'm curious too about this issue...sure difficult to get a straight answer these days...too may godamn lawyers around!

[HR-M3]

Originally posted by themadhatter
...you have the right to service your car any way you wish...

Well now, do you?

Is it written in law somewhere? We are talking about a car that's still under warranty. Do you not have to take the car to an approved place like a dealer or otherwise the warranty is shot?

I do not think BMW (or anyone) will honour the warranty if you have the car serviced at Ford or vice-versa.

Maybe there is some legislation out there that not many people don't know about, and car makers are sure not telling anyone about...

:dunno

[digitalgm]

TC .... any news????? Thought not.... :rolleyes:

AdamR