This info's been out for a little while, but I doubt many of you have heard about it.

First, Mike (ss owner) has the new rl-i 8's in hand is just waiting on the magnet boots to ship them. I believe the rms for them is 300w and mike has recommended a sealed box size of .17 cu ft. Also they have a one way xmax of 18 mm :eek: They sound like some awesome little 8's. I think the pricing is right around 140 but I'm not positive. Go here if you want some more info http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2348

Next, there is currently a group going on for soundsplinter rl-p 12" dual 2 ohm voice coils. Pricing is set at 199+ shipping. Normally mike doesnt carry any d2 rl-p's so this is your chance to get an rl-p 12 if you hav an amp that does 300-1200w at 1 or 4 ohms. The rms on these is only 500w but dont be fooled. I have 1kw going to mine daily with zero problems whatsoever. Also, since this is a special order mike is offering these at $35 off the regular price. A total purchase of 15 drivers must be made in order for this to go down. here is the official post http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2739 Contact squeak if you are in. I think he has about 7 confirmed orders so far and about 10 more claim to be in so this looks like its going to go down soon. :redspot


Finally (and most importantly :D ), SS just obtained the exclusive rights to be the first distributor of a driver utilizing tc sounds' Linear Motor Technology commonly referred to as LMT. This technology has been used in about 5 different prototypes that are floating around. The users have all said that they are without a doub the best drivers they have ever heard. The LMT protos had a oneway xmax of 48 mm :eek: Heres the specs on the LMT mike's gonna carry
So now, some revised numbers on the upcoming LMT drivers:

* Will be released in both 12" and 15" sizes
* Will be built upon the TC3HP motor
* Will offer up to 38.15 mm one way Xmax - True 3" peak to peak excursion!
* RMS rating of 800 watts - Peak power handling of 2 kW.
* Will use a 2ohm single linear voice coil
* Will feature a powdercoated black/grey chrome basket
* Will use 4 x (7.5" by 0.75") magnets
* Will carry dual 9.8" spiders
* Will sport super sexi black annodized aluminum cones user posted image

* Some preliminary spec's for the 12" model:
Qts: 0.489
Fs: 22 Hz
Vas: 57 L
Sd: 501 cm^2

* Some preliminary spec's for the 15" model:
Qts: 0.535
Fs: 20 Hz
Vas: 164.5 L
Sd: 851 cm^2

Preliminary pricing is set at $500 for the 12 and $560 for the 15. It may sound steep, but when you realize what this driver is capable of it actually is not bad at all. It is less than a w7 and will outdo it in terms of output and will have far less distortion. Heres the official release from mike with some interesting graphs and explanation of the technology http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2748



Well, thats all from soundsplinter for now. :alright

ill be interested in these woofers if they stack up to what they are saying on paper.

I just picked up 2 Arc Audio ARC 12-D4's for that price. :confused

I just picked up 2 Arc Audio ARC 12-D4's for that price. :confused
yeah but do they have 38 mm of xmax with a completely flat bl curve??

A single 15" LMT will outdisplace the pair of arc 12d4's by a decent amount and the distortion on the LMT will be significantly less.

heres tc's press release on it with some interesting graphs http://www.tcsounds.com/Images/LM_news.pdf
The next best bl curve out there would proably be that of an xbl^2 driver such as the brahma, but as you can see even that has a very parabolic shape to it. http://schismal1.homestead.com/files/LMT_-_comparison.jpg

So,I quess you do not believe in the $ curve vs. imax curve in proportion to the relative square sin of the x max wave? :)

mmmm yeah, when in doubt just speak jibberish :rolleyes

FYI, you can make an XBL^2 BL curve that flat if you want to. If you are thinking about the BL curve on the Brahma, Adire sacrificed a bit of flatness to add about 2mm more x-max without adding cost by using larger parts. The variance on the BL curve is WELL below audible levels, so it's moot. How do I know any of this? Well... I've talked to Dan about it in person and I have computer designed a few XBL^2 motors to see how it works.

LMT is interesting, though, as is any new technology. What worries me is the wider gap and cost of the weird voice coils.

FYI, you can make an XBL^2 BL curve that flat if you want to. If you are thinking about the BL curve on the Brahma, Adire sacrificed a bit of flatness to add about 2mm more x-max without adding cost by using larger parts. The variance on the BL curve is WELL below audible levels, so it's moot. How do I know any of this? Well... I've talked to Dan about it in person and I have computer designed a few XBL^2 motors to see how it works.

LMT is interesting, though, as is any new technology. What worries me is the wider gap and cost of the weird voice coils.
Adire can make it that flat on what though? A midrange? I kind of doubt even that, but I could easily be wrong. Do you have any pics of this because I would be really interested in seeing it. Dan wiggins rebuttal so to speak to the release of LMT with soundsplinter was claiming that he had already designed some technology just like LMT called v12. IT had a flatter graph than xbl^2 but still not quite as flat as LMT (I know at thispoint we're splitting hairs, but its something to talk about). DW made some claims about some flaws he believed the motor would have because his v12 proto had these problems. He stated that because of the added mass added to the end of the vc the BL sky rockets when the vc reaches it limit causing it to tear itself apart. After speaking witha number of engineers though, it seems that Dan misunderstood how LMT works. Apparently, it is a progressive increase in the number of winds around the coil, and rather than skyrocketing when it reaches its limits, bl drops off drastically. I really cant wait to see the final driver mike and TC come out with. At this point everything is speculation, but once it is out we will know whether any of its critic's complaints had any validity.

Adire can make it that flat on what though? A midrange? I kind of doubt even that, but I could easily be wrong. Do you have any pics of this because I would be really interested in seeing it. Dan wiggins rebuttal so to speak to the release of LMT with soundsplinter was claiming that he had already designed some technology just like LMT called v12. IT had a flatter graph than xbl^2 but still not quite as flat as LMT (I know at thispoint we're splitting hairs, but its something to talk about). DW made some claims about some flaws he believed the motor would have because his v12 proto had these problems. He stated that because of the added mass added to the end of the vc the BL sky rockets when the vc reaches it limit causing it to tear itself apart. After speaking witha number of engineers though, it seems that Dan misunderstood how LMT works. Apparently, it is a progressive increase in the number of winds around the coil, and rather than skyrocketing when it reaches its limits, bl drops off drastically. I really cant wait to see the final driver mike and TC come out with. At this point everything is speculation, but once it is out we will know whether any of its critic's complaints had any validity.

I could give you some simulated BL curves of motors I've done on the computer. You can get them damn near perfect if you fiddle around with it enough -- but as with the Brahma you can get a bit more travel with more cost-effective parts if you allow a little saddle shape. Although, it is pretty moot when the variance in the curve causes absolutely zero audible distortion. The audible threshold used for DUMAX testing and whatnot is around 70% of the at-rest BL which produces 10% THD (IIRC), when your variance is MAYBE 4-5% on the curve, what does that mean in the real world? Nothing at all, really.

As far as Dan's comment, I'm sure you meant he said because of the added turns in the gap the BL would skyrocket -- and that would be the case if it was a lump of winding at the end. But as you mentioned the LMT is a progressively changing winding so it doesn't do that. Cool idea for sure. I wonder how hard it is to accuratly wind those coils?

In addition to my worries about the wide gap and cost of the coil... also consider coil LENGTH. With XBL^2 you can always get more travel with the same size coil and top-plate than overhung or underhung (using multiple notches, some don't realize you can do that with XBL^2). You need to add alot more rearward clearance, and thus, more cost and mounting issues for the LMT speakers.

I noticed some people requesting mids and tweeters with LMT in the linked thread. That isn't likely as it doesn't appear to be as friendly to cross-use as XBL^2 due to the aforementioned coil length issues. If I understand LMT correctly you don't get any more raw travel than overhung, you just get ALL of that travel in a linear manner. Meaning you couldn't slap together a midrange with 13mm of x-max like the Extremis with LMT *and* have the high-end frequency response that XBL^2 has, as the LMT coil would be more inductive.

Which brings me to something else that bothered me when I saw the LMT acrobat file a WHILE back... what does the inductance vs. excursion graph look like? And what would that mean for sound quality, and more importantly, frequency response?

I'm kind of rambling now... I don't want anyone to take this as a bash on LMT. It's a great idea and I'm certain it will work very well, especially when used for subwoofers. Just thinking aloud about concerns. I'm as excited as anyone to see drivers hit the streets with it, I love to see new tech hit the market.

I could give you some simulated BL curves of motors I've done on the computer. You can get them damn near perfect if you fiddle around with it enough -- but as with the Brahma you can get a bit more travel with more cost-effective parts if you allow a little saddle shape. Although, it is pretty moot when the variance in the curve causes absolutely zero audible distortion. The audible threshold used for DUMAX testing and whatnot is around 70% of the at-rest BL which produces 10% THD (IIRC), when your variance is MAYBE 4-5% on the curve, what does that mean in the real world? Nothing at all, really.

As far as Dan's comment, I'm sure you meant he said because of the added turns in the gap the BL would skyrocket -- and that would be the case if it was a lump of winding at the end. But as you mentioned the LMT is a progressively changing winding so it doesn't do that. Cool idea for sure. I wonder how hard it is to accuratly wind those coils?

In addition to my worries about the wide gap and cost of the coil... also consider coil LENGTH. With XBL^2 you can always get more travel with the same size coil and top-plate than overhung or underhung (using multiple notches, some don't realize you can do that with XBL^2). You need to add alot more rearward clearance, and thus, more cost and mounting issues for the LMT speakers.

I noticed some people requesting mids and tweeters with LMT in the linked thread. That isn't likely as it doesn't appear to be as friendly to cross-use as XBL^2 due to the aforementioned coil length issues. If I understand LMT correctly you don't get any more raw travel than overhung, you just get ALL of that travel in a linear manner. Meaning you couldn't slap together a midrange with 13mm of x-max like the Extremis with LMT *and* have the high-end frequency response that XBL^2 has, as the LMT coil would be more inductive.

Which brings me to something else that bothered me when I saw the LMT acrobat file a WHILE back... what does the inductance vs. excursion graph look like? And what would that mean for sound quality, and more importantly, frequency response?

I'm kind of rambling now... I don't want anyone to take this as a bash on LMT. It's a great idea and I'm certain it will work very well, especially when used for subwoofers. Just thinking aloud about concerns. I'm as excited as anyone to see drivers hit the streets with it, I love to see new tech hit the market.
I had no idea you could get xbl^2 that flat. nOw lets just see if they can find a way to make it that flat with 50 mm excursion. That would be some sub. I think you are right on with the limitations fro dumax dumax testing.
Believe me, you are not the first to have those concerns :) I am still learning about this technology and have talked with a few different people that are very familiar with the technology for answers. At this point, any thing other than a subwoofer using LMT would be completely worthless. The high inductance makes it so that the sq would just not be there. I don't remember the exact numbers but the inductance on the LMT protos was something like 6.5 mH. Even at this high of inductance though, they should play to around 100 hz before it becomes a problem though. The lmt driver ss will carry will likely have a much lower inductance. I guess when they were designing the protos they made a couple sacrifices in order to get nearly 50mm of excursion. one of those sacrifices was a low inductance. Mike has stated that the frequency response on the SS LMT should be up to about 150 hz before the high inductance issues come into play, which is obviously well above the territory you would ever play a subwoofer.
As for mounting depth, I really have no idea. Here is the proto LMT
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/12/web/180000-180999/180800_306_full.jpg
It appears to be a few inches larger than an eclipse ti so I would say the mounting depth on that is about 9-10" seeing as how an eclipse ti is 7.5". Its pretty significant but not ridiculous and I'll bet the mounting depth on the ss LMT will be even less.
In a few weeks I am going to get a chance to demo Mike's protoype. I can't wait. I'll finally get to see if this technology is all its cracked up to be.

bump this up for the group buy. I gotta whore it up a little :stickoutt They are getting close but still need a few more people to get in on this. Mike cant put in an order of less than 15 drivers with tc so this wont go down unless they get the 15. BTW, i think they need about 4 or 5 more drivers to be confirmed then the ordeer will get placed, so they are definitely close. This is one hell of a driver that will work well in a small sealed box which is prefect for the bimmer trunk. Did I mention that these things are comparable to brahma's, xxx's, w7's, etc. :devillook

:cool

bump this up for the group buy. I gotta whore it up a little :stickoutt They are getting close but still need a few more people to get in on this. Mike cant put in an order of less than 15 drivers with tc so this wont go down unless they get the 15. BTW, i think they need about 4 or 5 more drivers to be confirmed then the ordeer will get placed, so they are definitely close. This is one hell of a driver that will work well in a small sealed box which is prefect for the bimmer trunk. Did I mention that these things are comparable to brahma's, xxx's, w7's, etc. :devillook

:cool
I am in . When is the release and when can the group buy order begin. Let us know.

I am in . When is the release and when can the group buy order begin. Let us know.
the group buy has been going on for about 2 weeks or so now and is now coming to a close. They have 15 drivers confirmed so the order will be placed with the buildhouse as soon as squeak seds the info to Mike@soundsplinter. If you really want in email mike @ soundsplinter.com ASAP. I will also send squeak a pm for you. for more info, go here http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2739
EDIT: the info ha snot yet been sent to mike so instead of emailing Mike register @ www.teamssaudio.com/forums and send squeak9798 a pm with your info saying you want in. here is the thread with the current status http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2905

I could give you some simulated BL curves of motors I've done on the computer..... what does that mean in the real world? Nothing at all, really.

I totally agree! I think someone should try to get 38MM of linear excursion in a sealed box sometime. Too bad that the trapped air goes audibly non-linear after you compress it over 5% of its volume.

I recently built a custom 21-inch sub for a client and we worried that the motor only had about 12mm of honest linear Xmax. Even with 2000 watts and a large box of 4.5 Ft3, that cone never exceeded linear travel---the air in the box wouldn't let it!

Scale this scenario down to the 8-inch with 38MM Xmax in a .17 Ft3 sealed box: How linear can this thing possibly be? I would think the box would need to be over 1.0 Ft3 to minimize non-linearity distortion and compression.

I suppose a transmission line enclosure could handle the high excursion, but we are now talking HUGE enclosures and extremely low efficiency. I could consider this in my home theatre, but not my trunk (besides my IDEAL subwoofer is 4 times more efficient than a W7 and weighs less than 20 lbs w/enclosure!).

My point is that there are compromises in any woofer design, and Xmax is only part of the equation.

Matthew
00 528 Sport

Mike from SoundSplinter informed me about the new LMT's. Here's what he had to say-
"I am expecting to have a finalized prototype in hand within the next two weeks. We've worked through a couple designs on the new LM enabled drivers and are almost finished. These will be known as our RL-s, or Supreme series drivers, and will be available in both 12" and 15" sizes.

For some preliminary information on the technology, as well as updates as they have become suitable for public release, please read through the following thread in our home forum: http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2748

Pricing is aiming to be around $500 for the 12" model, and $560 for the 15" model. Shipping would be estimated to begin sometime in June."

Sounds good, huh?

Alex :alright

I can't wait for the proto to come out. I am going to get to play around with it for a little while as on as he has the 15 proto.

GROUP BUY UPDATE!!!

Here's the update on the group buy. TC has raised their overhead with Mike 15% since he quoted everyone at 199 each if they ould get 15 drivers. Rather than raise the prices, Mike has decided to pay for an additional 15 drivers just to keep the price the same as he had promised early on. If you purchase before May 15 you can get an rl-p 12d2 $199. After May 15 Mike will sell them at the reguar price, which I believe is 235 for 1, or 225 each if you buy a pair. contact mike@soundsplinter.com if you are ready to order.

mmmm yeah, when in doubt just speak jibberish :rolleyes
By bad,I was J/K. :)

By bad,I was J/K. :)
its cool
:redspot

Eric77, have you recieved an update on the release of the supreme series Soundsplinter subs?
I am itchy to buy new subs and am considering a pair of 15" premium series subs or wait for the rl-s. Also, 1 supreme is costs more than a pair of premiums. I hate to ask, but what do the new the new supreme series subs offer in performance that the premiums cannot?

Eric77, have you recieved an update on the release of the supreme series Soundsplinter subs?
I am itchy to buy new subs and am considering a pair of 15" premium series subs or wait for the rl-s. Also, 1 supreme is costs more than a pair of premiums. I hate to ask, but what do the new the new supreme series subs offer in performance that the premiums cannot?
The planned release dat is sometime in late june or early july. The rl-s will have significantly greater power handling than the rl-p, a noticeable amount less distortion (i.e. better sq), and 50% more displacement.

The proto should be done sometime this week or next. Mike is currently out of town i believe, but I will get more details when he gets back.

The planned release dat is sometime in late june or early july. The rl-s will have significantly greater power handling than the rl-p, a noticeable amount less distortion (i.e. better sq), and 50% more displacement.

The proto should be done sometime this week or next. Mike is currently out of town i believe, but I will get more details when he gets back.
Cool, thanks man!

I spent the last couple days down at the plant in San Diego. Got some good news, and some bad news... Bad news is that the release of the drivers and subsequent "demo-ring" may be pushed back by anywhere from 1-4 weeks. Good news is, this is because after Thilo and I played around with all the current proto's down at the demo room inside TC from 9pm until midnight last night; it dawned on him that a machined manipulation of the pole piece underneath the region where the voicecoil acts may help to further refine -- or "aim" -- the magnetic flux. This is his idea of course, and my explanation probably doesn't do it justice - but it was exciting to see the gleam in his eye as the revelation came to him :D
In so far as weight is concerned, around 50-60 lbs a piece, give or take for either the 12" or 15" models :eyecrazy
:buttrock

is the rl-p 12 honestly available in a dual 2 ohm coil? it says nothing about that configuration on their website...it just shows the dual 4 ohm subs. ???

this is the reason i landed my sub decision on the idq-12. if i can get a dual 2 ohm rl-p, i might have to change my mind. too bad i've already built a great box for an idq-12...

YOu could have gotten a d2 rl-p for awhile, but out of the 30 ordered 26 have already been claimed an dpaid for and Mike is going to hold onto the other 4 in case any of the others have warranty problems.

Here are some pics of the protos Mike just released. They are MASSIVE. These are not necessarily what the final rl-s will look like. These are protos using random parts, not necessarily production parts.

http://www.soundsplinter.com/images/lmt/lmt-proto-mattewhite-polishedsilver-full.jpg

http://www.soundsplinter.com/images/lmt/lmt-proto-blackannodized.jpg

http://www.soundsplinter.com/images/lmt/lmt-proto-coilsclose.jpg

:eek:


I'm getting a new car, not a new sub. I'm getting a new car, not a new sub.I'm getting a new car, not a new sub.I'm getting a new car, not a new sub.I'm getting a new car, not a new sub.I'm getting a new car, not a new sub.I'm getting a new car, not a new sub.I'm getting a new car, not a new sub.I'm getting a new car, not a new sub.I'm getting a new car, not a new sub.

That first pic sure looks like the Av.2 from Elemental Designs. I think Ben didn't release the Av.2 line because the basket was flawed. Don't quote me on that though.

That first pic sure looks like the Av.2 from Elemental Designs. I think Ben didn't release the Av.2 line because the basket was flawed. Don't quote me on that though.
the baskets been used by LA; it is not flawed. I believe the av.2 was scrapped because eD switched buildhouses.