URI cp $145
Sways $150 obo
Springs $100
Rear shocks $75
and engine accessories. If you need something lmk and we can work something out.

Did you figure out if the crank pulley was the source of your engine problems?? I am looking to get one and was wondering if I should or not..

Crank pulley will not directly cause engine failure. Some people do question its effect on premature oil pump nut backing. As long as you have your oil pump nut lock-tighted or wielded you will be fine. The ONLY reason I am not using the cp anymore is because I now have a ltw flywheel and I can not have both.

:confused

Crank pulley will not directly cause engine failure....says the engineer. :rolleyes

Some people do question its effect on premature oil pump nut backing.question. point fingers. close enough.

As long as you have your oil pump nut lock-tighted or wielded you will be fine.yeah, no other problems could EVER come from undamped crank harmonics. BMW designed the harmonic damper JUST to keep the nut on the oil pump. You locktite that nut, and the ENGINE doesn't need its harmonic damper anymore.

The ONLY reason I am not using the cp anymore is because I now have a ltw flywheel and I can not have both.
Because everything will blow up significantly faster. You have a harmonic damper on the front of the engine... for the engine... and one on the back for the driveline.

Why in the MFin' hell are you crapping in this man's thread about this beaten to death topic?!?!

Let it go already - especially in this man's FS thread.

Why in the MFin' hell are you crapping in this man's thread about this beaten to death topic?!?!

Let it go already - especially in this man's FS thread.

Agreed.

I had one on my car for two years with no known problems...

I won't argue over it chicken little....er...techno.
But let me ask you. Aside from the oil pump nut backing off(which many cars that never have had a cp on have had a problem with), what other engine failure have you known for a fact to be caused by a cp? From all of the searches I did on the topic prior to installing mine I have not seen one engine problem from a cp.

It is funny because there are some that think a cp will cause engine damage but not one person has come foward with a problem. :confused

Or have I missed the thread where someone showed how their cp damaged their engine? I am not being sarcastic with you(the chicken little thing was a joke ;) )I would like to see some cold hard evidance backing up all of these phantom claims of engine failure due to cp.

Clarify that one thing for me then let this continue as a FS thread. Thanks.
<3

I won't argue over it chicken little....er...techno.
But let me ask you. Aside from the oil pump nut backing off(which many cars that never have had a cp on have had a problem with), what other engine failure have you known for a fact to be caused by a cp? From all of the searches I did on the topic prior to installing mine I have not seen one engine problem from a cp.
From that thread alone, it seemed relatively clear that those who had the oil pump nut back off either bounced off the rev limiter often, or had a cp. As for what other problems, we can make a short list of timing chain fatigue, chain tensioner and guide issues, drastically shortened main bearing life, and crank fatigue. Other issues would be a result of issues with the above leading into other things. The extra TV's will *beat the crap* out of all sorts of internal parts (hence the shortened bearing life).

It is funny because there are some that think a cp will cause engine damage but not one person has come foward with a problem. :confused
The problem is that most that have problems that are related have no idea if/how its related to anything else. If we can't get people to relate blowouts to driving on flat tires or cancer to smoking, then what chance do we have at them coming forward with any engine issue and relating it to a crank pulley? How many people in the E36M3 forum have a background in engineering, let alone in NVH specifically?


Or have I missed the thread where someone showed how their cp damaged their engine? I am not being sarcastic with you(the chicken little thing was a joke ;) )I would like to see some cold hard evidance backing up all of these phantom claims of engine failure due to cp.
How bout researching the relationship between undamped TV's and bearing life. That'd be a good start. Probably find more than you'd ever want to know through google and key words like harmonic damper bearing life, or bearing life crank harmonics.

There are a decent number of people out there who understand TV dampers, but URI isn't one of them. Reading URI's site and their counterarguments is like listening to a goat try to speak french. Amusing at first, but then once you realize that there are people that buy said goat's *learn to speak french* tapes... :(

Clarify that one thing for me then let this continue as a FS thread. Thanks.
<3

Good luck with the sale. Ebay might be a good way to get rid of it. Plenty of stupid people that won't know any better there.

People post every kind of engine problem they have on these boards. Or do you disagree?

Since I have been here I have not seen any kind of notable(more than just a few) problems with M3s except misshifts and nuts backing off. I still think they are phantom problems. You are saying how a crank pulley will cause those things yet no one is posting about them. Bearing life? Crank fatigue? Chain tentioner issues? I mean common, show me any notable amount(more than 2) of threads where people are having those issues or the consequences of those issues within a 6 month time period that have a cp installed. People post every issue they have with their cars here as a whole. So if they exist I am sure you will find them.

Again I could be wrong here but from what I have read from the people who use a crank pulley no one is having problems. I like to listen to real life examples not just what people are telling me.

Lung cancer and smoking? There is a direct link and even if some/very few people choose not to believe the world knows what smoking does. I am logical, you prove to me that these problems are really out there and there is a connection and I will believe you. But just repeating what people say about the subjuct is obsurd and I refuse to just believe without something to actually back it up.





Good luck with the sale. Ebay might be a good way to get rid of it. Plenty of stupid people that won't know any better there.

You calling my potential buyers stupid is uncalled for and childish.

thanks for the usefull info "chicken little" I'll have to pass, I'm tired of dealing with engine problems.

People post every kind of engine problem they have on these boards. Or do you disagree?
Agree. And I think I might have been one of the first to point out the relationship between "vibrations" and stuff coming loose. I didn't say people didn't post about problems. I said they weren't smart enough to connect them to any specific cause. Big difference.

Since I have been here I have not seen any kind of notable(more than just a few) problems with M3s except misshifts and nuts backing off. I still think they are phantom problems. You are saying how a crank pulley will cause those things yet no one is posting about them. Bearing life? Crank fatigue? Chain tentioner issues? I mean common, show me any notable amount(more than 2) of threads where people are having those issues or the consequences of those issues within a 6 month time period that have a cp installed. People post every issue they have with their cars here as a whole. So if they exist I am sure you will find them.
You can drive a street car for a darn long time with excessively warn main bearings. Those who don't monitor their oil pressure with great zeal probably wouldn't notice. Seeing as most don't monitor it at all, or if they do, they don't know what they are looking for, won't report the problem. When the mains wear, the oil pressure drops, and the oil supply to the head as well as to the rod bearings drops. This wears rod bearings which will become noisy, won't fill the hydraulic lifters properly which will become noisy, and possibly wears on the cam a bit too. All of this put together when they take it in will be seen as an "oil supply problem". Some might blame it on the grade of oil they used, or a bad filter, or something else. That is why I pointed you to google to get an introduction to "the basics" on crank harmonics and their effects on various engine parts.
Again I could be wrong here but from what I have read from the people who use a crank pulley no one is having problems. I like to listen to real life examples not just what people are telling me.

Lung cancer and smoking? There is a direct link and even if some/very few people choose not to believe the world knows what smoking does. I am logical, you prove to me that these problems are really out there and there is a connection and I will believe you. But just repeating what people say about the subjuct is obsurd and I refuse to just believe without something to actually back it up.
google is your friend.

The only people who disagree with all the engineers on this are those at URI. Their FAQ on the site is the most laughable document ever produced. I don't think we were able to find a single correct statement.



You calling my potential buyers stupid is uncalled for and childish.

what would you call the buyers of cigarettes?

I am glad your tone changed. It is much easier to discuss with someone that is relaxed. :)

You have peaked my interest in exactly what kind of issues those who have had a CP could potentially have. So I started a informative thread on the e36 m3 board to see what all engine issues people with a CP have had. I will be very interested to see what people have encountered.

The point you made about parts shaking loose or whatnot...
It is funny, because exhaust pipes can cause drone. Drone can easily cause(and isn't the direct cause of) parts shaking loose in a car.<<<question and statement

Stiff suspension can do the same right? These folks running around town on the stiffest suspension they can find and whatnot...

Won't both of those cause loose parts on a car? Many times people do certain things because the benifit outweighs the problems that can be caused.

Now I am not a intellectual by any means. I am very simple minded and don't have any kind of college learning. So I can not speak about the very technical aspects about engines. But I can reason on what people have experienced. So hopefully many things can be cleared up about the CP with the thread. Maybe it will become obvious for many who are considering one that there are more problems than the 10hp is worth to them. Maybe people will see that there is nothing worth getting in a fuss over it about. Who knows. We will see.


About the cigarettes? When you call my potential buyers stupid for sending me their money for some goods that is crossing into troll teritory. That is why it is childish and stupid. When you are paying for gas inside the station and see the guy ahead of you spending his money on cigarettes do you point at him and call him stupid to his face? People can make their own decisions. :smoke3

Hey Jean, I bought the gear tooth from Big Lun that was with your crank pulley. If anyone with obd1 is interested in your pulley i'd sell that for $45 (I payed more for it) its brand new with all the hardware.

I don't know if this will help or hurt, but I remember reading this white paper on Dinans website some time ago.

http://www.dinancars.com/whitepapersFile.asp?ID=5

I have no dog in this fight btw, just posting some info that I've run across.

Carry on (my wayward son)! :)

Suspension would be a great example. Imagine removing the shocks (dampers) from your car. there would be a few bumps and such that would be floaty and such, but it would still be drivable. Now imaging driving to florida and getting on one of those horribly long bridges with a very precise distance between each expansion joint. Now envision the frequency of hitting these bumps ligning up with the spring's natural frequency. Your car would go into an undamped harmonic oscillation and bounce itself clear off the road. A bad thing? yeah, pretty much. What happened? No means of damping and hitting the natural freuqncy of something that needs to be damped.

Now take that knowledge and apply it to removing the damper from the front of the engine. Now consider that the BMW I6 operates THROUGH its torsional harmonic. ...

I hope you see where this is going.

For an illustration of undamped harmonics (assuming you didn't see it in HS physics), search for "tacoma narrows bridge". Probably can find a good video somewhere.

I started a informative thread on the e36 m3 board to see what all engine issues people with a CP have had. I will be very interested to see what people have encountered.

I just thought I'd chime in here on this instead of in the thread on the E36 M3 board. I'll use the smoking analogy again. If you polled smokers a 1 or 2 years after starting smoking about their health problems, what sort of response would you likely get?

Now instead if you took people that were not smoking, looked at their lungs, then let them smoke for 6 months or a year and looked at their lungs again, would that not be a better test?

Take a look at the mains and you'd be suprised. Once again, a simple google search will also confirm this.

Why do you think they started putting TV Dampers on motors in the first place?

Is any of this making any sense to anyone here??

Why do you think they started putting TV Dampers on motors in the first place?

Maybe I'm the freak, but I don't want a wet TV on my motor any time soon.

:help

But yes, vibration at resonant frequencies= bad. I make maps and even I remember that from physics class.

Carter

I just thought I'd chime in here on this instead of in the thread on the E36 M3 board. I'll use the smoking analogy again. If you polled smokers a 1 or 2 years after starting smoking about their health problems, what sort of response would you likely get?

Now instead if you took people that were not smoking, looked at their lungs, then let them smoke for 6 months or a year and looked at their lungs again, would that not be a better test?

Take a look at the mains and you'd be suprised. Once again, a simple google search will also confirm this.

Why do you think they started putting TV Dampers on motors in the first place?

Is any of this making any sense to anyone here??


Yes, I understand the argument. What else I understand is that I have not heard of anyone having any issues directly or indirectly from a crank pulley. Now, the thread on the e36 board might enlighten me to a cp damaging a engine it might not. But until I have HARD EVIDENCE showing damage(directly or indirectly), as far as I am concerned the danger is not realistic to us daily drivers who have a CP on.

Go back to smoking. What if smoking was different than it is in reality? What if only 1 in 1000 people who smoked had side effects? If the crank pulley only effects a car on a super rare circumstance than to most people it would be worth it. Now you still stand that chance of being 1 in 1000 that get screwed but people wouldn't mind those odds.

Thus far there have been many who have had a CP installed for a extended period of time with many miles and no issues at all. At what point would you say the CP won't cause any damge? When the car has 200k miles and the engine is weak? Let me guess the engine is weak due to a cp? :rofl

Lighten up on the subject, you are not going to have me believing a cp will do any notable damage till I can see some evidence. Lets see what people who use them say. Maybe after some more responses I will change my mind.


btw, I have a crank pulley for sale if anyone wants it for $145:D

Jean Claude, as is seen both here and in your post in the M3 forum, "you just don't get it". I don't know why people can't understand this.

Simple quotes like "If not adequately controlled, torsional vibration causes rapid main bearing and main journal wear and possible crankshaft breakage" mean nothing I take it. Are you reading and comprehending any of this?

URI is the only company dumb enough to come up with a concept like "the harmonic damper is heavy, lets replace it with something lighter that isn't a harmonic damper". Everyone else either leaves it the hell alone, or tries to make a "better" harmonic damper. Who the hell removes a harmonic damper from an engine?

If you'd like, I can quote their FAQ page here and correct each of their statements. Hell, I could even have an NVH engineer *fix* their statements if you'd prefer.

The smoking analogy I made above is about as spot on as it can get. The change in wear is instant, and the results won't manifest themselves for a while without inspection. "30k miles and it ain't blowed up yet" means jack shit. thats like "a pack a day for the past 3 years and I'm not dead yet". Hence the complete waste of time and potential "false hope" your thread in the M3 forum is likely to bring. People don't understand the problem, don't understand the symptoms, and don't understand the failure methods. You've just polled a half dozen *new* smokers. Are they dead yet?

FYI, I am understanding all that you are saying techno, and it makes a lot of sense and I am soon to be a med student..may be why I understand..hahaha

What kind of sway bars are they? I might be interested. PM me.

Jean Claude, as is seen both here and in your post in the M3 forum, "you just don't get it". I don't know why people can't understand this.

Simple quotes like "If not adequately controlled, torsional vibration causes rapid main bearing and main journal wear and possible crankshaft breakage" mean nothing I take it. Are you reading and comprehending any of this?

URI is the only company dumb enough to come up with a concept like "the harmonic damper is heavy, lets replace it with something lighter that isn't a harmonic damper". Everyone else either leaves it the hell alone, or tries to make a "better" harmonic damper. Who the hell removes a harmonic damper from an engine?

If you'd like, I can quote their FAQ page here and correct each of their statements. Hell, I could even have an NVH engineer *fix* their statements if you'd prefer.

The smoking analogy I made above is about as spot on as it can get. The change in wear is instant, and the results won't manifest themselves for a while without inspection. "30k miles and it ain't blowed up yet" means jack shit. thats like "a pack a day for the past 3 years and I'm not dead yet". Hence the complete waste of time and potential "false hope" your thread in the M3 forum is likely to bring. People don't understand the problem, don't understand the symptoms, and don't understand the failure methods. You've just polled a half dozen *new* smokers. Are they dead yet?


I do get it - and I think some engines can take it due to various reasons(crank stiffness, main bearing clearance, oil pressure, bottom end robustness etc.). Crank pullies do increase torsional and bending vibrations in the crank, but it has been shown that some engines can tolerate this. I don't see why, you as an engineer, have such a hard time seeing this. Emperical data clearly shows that as a whole, lots of engines can take the added beating. There is additional stress, but there is not even close to immediate failure on many many engines.


Sorry, but your analogies just don't jive with the situation.





Seriously - just let the man sell his crank pulley - it provides good power gains, and has been shown to not immediately destruct your engine.

JC, just start another for sale thread. This one's dead.

And Michael, even if you are right, why the hell does it matter? You're not buying it and putting it on your car, so why be argumentative? Just let the man sell the part...

Like I said, ebay it.

Def, there is nothing showing that these engines can take the extra beating. Bearing size won't change this, bearing clearance would have to be HUGE, oil pressure would have to be through the roof, etc.. and all are relatively normal. Crank stiffness would change nothing. You can't have an infinitely stiff crank anyway. Some way of avoiding the crank's natural resonance would help. Unfortunately in the case of an M50, that means something drastic like either cutting the motor in half and running it as a 3 cylinder, or setting the redline to 2500 rpm. Both severely detract from performance.

Torsionals are torsionals, and undamped will get, well, what is the limit on an undamped harmonic oscillation? Self damping properties of a forged crank are not-so-great...

immediate failure was never what I claimed. Its pretty rare to get a crank to snap itself in half. (though it does happen.) Drastic change in engine life is another story though. You just admitted that indeed the TV's will be higher. What do TV's do to bearings? Look it up if you must.

Perhaps the bearings are coated with that new supercoating, "anti-physics". That should solve the problem.

Like you said ebay it? Let me tell you something. I could give a flying crap if you approve of me selling a crank pulley on the bimmerforums or not. So why don't you get it through your thick skull that it is for sale here and will remain so. If I choose to sell it on ebay that will be my decission, you have ZERO bearing on when and how it will sell.

Now if you would like to discuss some topic fine. But get over yourself and how you think your opinion is where the buck stops for some odd thousands of bf.com members. If people want to put suger in their gas tanks let them. If they choose to install a crank pulley let them(yea I know the sky will fall on their M3 if they do :rolleyes ).

I don't understand how you can insist on everyone agreeing with you. Not going to happen, homegrit. All you are doing is hurting your argument by making people regret agreeing with someone so brash.

If anything he has been calm and just stating a point which is understandable by anyone who knows anything about cars. You need to relax, the point of this board is to learn from other experiences and knowledge not keep calling them names when they teach you something new that your brain could not comprehend.

The point of this thread was to sell some items I had, until it was pushed off course.

What if I came to one of your FS threads and started telling you to sell it on ebay cause all the idiots are over there?

Amir, if you were as impolite as techno has been by insisting on keeping this a argument thread and not a FS thread I would call you chicken little as well. If you could not tell the chicken little reference is to his argument. He is claiming all kind of problems and yet many people using a cp is having ZERO problems after thousands of miles. It is not realistic to expect any kind of major(or minor from what others are saying) damage from a cp. The sky is not falling. :rolleyes

I think it is ironic that you are saying my brain can't comprehend something.

*edit:
I didn't said he was not calm. I said he was brash. Mr. my brain can't comprehend. :rolleyes

You need to relax, the point of this board is to learn from other experiences and knowledge not keep calling them names when they teach you something new that your brain could not comprehend.

techno is not teaching anybody anything. He is offering his view on the situation. A situation which real world "testing" refutes - if there is no major wear on the engine in the 30-40+k miles that some CP equipped cars have logged, then I'm of the opinion that the engine is doing just dandy - if there is going to be bearing wear, it will happen relatively quickly. That's the nature of hydrodynamic bearings and the large material hardness gap between the crank and bearings.

Torsional vibrations COULD cause more bearing wear, but there is nothing stating they definitely cause more wear(if you don't understand that, I suggest YOU look it up).


I guess he successfully crapped in this thread though - so sorry you had to "deal with it" JC. Some people just have poor manners at times...

The point of this thread was to sell some items I had, until it was pushed off course.

What if I came to one of your FS threads and started telling you to sell it on ebay cause all the idiots are over there?

Amir, if you were as impolite as techno has been by insisting on keeping this a argument thread and not a FS thread I would call you chicken little as well. If you could not tell the chicken little reference is to his argument. He is claiming all kind of problems and yet many people using a cp is having ZERO problems after thousands of miles. It is not realistic to expect any kind of major(or minor from what others are saying) damage from a cp. The sky is not falling. :rolleyes

I think it is ironic that you are saying my brain can't comprehend something.

*edit:
I didn't said he was not calm. I said he was brash. Mr. my brain can't comprehend. :rolleyes



Just giving ya a little back at what you have done in the past in many threads that I have seen..nothing but crap in them and sometimes even saying you want things and never going through with it, or making a million other post before you buy something...kinda hypocrite don't you think??? Now that someone is having questions about a product you are selling..you are flipping out in all kinds of ways...and also about you not being able to comprehend..obviously you can't, when he is telling you to go read up on google and you can't even understand that little bit of english. Now back to your for sale thread..I had a legit question and got a legit answer and will be passing on your pulley..good luck with your sale.

Just giving ya a little back at what you have done in the past in many threads that I have seen..nothing but crap in them and sometimes even saying you want things and never going through with it, or making a million other post before you buy something...kinda hypocrite don't you think??? Now that someone is having questions about a product you are selling..you are flipping out in all kinds of ways...and also about you not being able to comprehend..obviously you can't, when he is telling you to go read up on google and you can't even understand that little bit of english. Now back to your for sale thread..I had a legit question and got a legit answer and will be passing on your pulley..good luck with your sale.

Amir could you be a little more vague for everyone? You are telling me that I am crapping other peoples threads? Show me.

I want things and never go through with it? What in the world are you talking about. My engine threads? Mod threads? YOu completely lost me. The ONLY thing I have mentioned I will be getting that I have not yet is a turbo kit. Excuse me, I just spent $9200 on a engine and mods. It will be pushed off a while longer, but I look foward to the day I will have your approval with how, when and where I spend my money.

Read my post directly after techno's response to you. I don't think I flipped out by any manner. I even told him I was joking about the chicken little reference.

This little bit...or making a million other post before you buy something...kinda hypocrite don't you think???
Amir you are really struggling. Later you tell me that I can't understand English. lol I love your engrish structure. If you are going to criticize me at least make it understandable.

I never flipped out when he started crapping my thread. Go back and re-read my post directly after he started all this crap. I was polite with him. I even pointed out that my chicken little joke was just that.

I completely understand what he is telling me. After reading the thread where everyone with a cp is posting their experiences, either you are plain stupid Amir, or you have not read it and are talking from what you hear and not what the facts are. The facts being real life experiences and not just some "it could"s. :rolleyes

For you acting so superior to me you sure don't put up a worth while argument. :rolleyes

Here is the thread that I started after techno so eliquently informed me of my misunderstandings of the true danger of crank pullies.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=341080

I don't think I need to argue the real life danger of crank pullies. Everyone there can show the realities of a crank pulley. :rolleyes

Here is the thread that I started after techno so eliquently informed me of my misunderstandings of the true danger of crank pullies.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=341080

I don't think I need to argue the real life danger of crank pullies. Everyone there can show the realities of a crank pulley. :rolleyes

Basically, what it comes down to is that you don't get it. Not even a little bit. You think you do, but you painfully obviously don't. Someone having X miles with "no issues" doesn't mean what you obviously think it means.

for a better understanding, perhaps try this thread.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3997063

Based on the question and what the responses will be, it will give you all the information you need on the topic.

ok techno you are right.

Can this end? The part will still be up for sale despite how we feel about cp's.

techno is not teaching anybody anything. He is offering his view on the situation. A situation which real world "testing" refutes - if there is no major wear on the engine in the 30-40+k miles that some CP equipped cars have logged, then I'm of the opinion that the engine is doing just dandy - if there is going to be bearing wear, it will happen relatively quickly. That's the nature of hydrodynamic bearings and the large material hardness gap between the crank and bearings.

Torsional vibrations COULD cause more bearing wear, but there is nothing stating they definitely cause more wear(if you don't understand that, I suggest YOU look it up).


I guess he successfully crapped in this thread though - so sorry you had to "deal with it" JC. Some people just have poor manners at times...

Techno is educating. Some choose not to learn. ;)

How do you know there is no major wear in those 30-40k miles? You torn down an M50 at that point? Can I see the pics? Good closeups of the crank and main bearings? What'd the X-rays come back looking like?

So there is nothing stating that TV's definately cause wear? I can't find anything saying they might not cause wear. I can't find anyting saying TV's are fine and don't need to be damped. Especially on something that operates through its natural resonant frequency. Where have you read this? You're still at tech, go ask someone with a masters or PHD in NVH. (If you can't find one there, we've got one locally I can point you to... I kinda already know what he'd say though...) If thats not enough for you, start calling engine builders. Hell, just ask some what might happen to the bearings if someone were to "forget to put on a harmonic damper". (I'd probably phrase it that way to almost save face... that way you're not directly admitting that you're dumb enough to take it off on purpose.)

Let me know what you come back with from that. Or just tear down a motor. I'd say send me the main bearings from JC's motor, but it's probably so F'ed in other ways that it'd be hard to tell what was harmonic and what was just plain *no oil*.

Hell, main bearings aside, you think the chain, chain tensioner, oil pump, (oil pump nut ;) ), vanos unit, and other such connected internal engine parts like the extra thrashing they take from the undamped harmonics?

I find it somewhat amusing that this goes well beyond just disagreeing with me. Links can be posted to Steve Dinan saying the same thing, engineering firms saying it, people pointing out that pretty much everything on URI's site is complete BS and 100% wrong. None of that matters. People still don't want to believe it.

For you acting so superior to me you sure don't put up a worth while argument. :rolleyes


I'm superior to you in all kinds of ways B*tch, don't call me stupid when you know exactly the behavior I am talking about...to point out one specific example off the top of my head, to your attention, cause obviously you act like you don't know. Once upon a time their was this ***** that wanted to buy a UUC exhaust..he told the buyer he wanted and after haggling with price for some time, he decided he was still not satisfied and went and posted a billion threads around bf.c asking all kinds of retarted questions, and basically had no intention to buy, but just wanted to shit on someone's sale..There have been a few other times that I have personally seen you crap on threads. Anyhow, the point of that was don't try and do something yourself and get all self defensive when someone ask a legit question in your thread. "Techno" knows tens times more than you ever will about cars and what he is saying is correct, although that may be far beyond your capabilities to understand. You think you have spent money on your engine bragging about 9 g's try over 40g's on just motor related work on one car and even then I still will be far superior as take the car you have and multiply it by 3 and that's how many I have sitting in the garage below me right now. As I said before, good luck with your sale and don't make anymore attacks on me because I will respond, I'm not gonna sit here and let you think you can talk sh*t and attack members.

Amir

I'll just chime in here, Brant and Chuck Stickley DO NOT and will not run crank pullies on their cars. Call them up and you'll get an earful, plus racing experience on why they won't do it. And they tear down and put motors together all the time (including my E36 m3 motor, which was built for Brant's race car)

How do you know there is no major wear in those 30-40k miles? You torn down an M50 at that point? Can I see the pics? Good closeups of the crank and main bearings? What'd the X-rays come back looking like?

Given the composition of main bearings, and how they operate(i.e. large clearances lead to reduced oil pressure, which will lead to drastically decreased load capacity and so on and so forth) - if they're wearing as much as you say, then they would basically be trashed after a few tens of millions of cycles(30-40k miles). They're not though, because the engines aren't knocking and oil pressure is just fine. That much is easy enough to tell from listening to them run, and monitoring the oil pressure(which some CP cars have had their oil pressure monitored, and it stays constant through the life of the car - hell, lots of SC cars have solid crank pullies to drive the CF SC and they're just fine). I fully understand the theory that you are explaining, I just don't see why you can't see that these failures(main bearings) simply AREN'T happening in real life. Why ignore the emperical data presented to you? That's bad science to selectively ignore data to prove a hypothesis.

If CPs really are causing crank to bearing contact with any regular frequency, it shouldn't take all that long to manifest itself as a completely shot main bearing with lots of knocking. That's the whole point of a hydrodynamic bearing - if it has any contact at all, with any frequency, it will wear and then not do its job anymore. I've seen pics of plenty of engines without harmonic dampers on them and the mains look fine. A hydrodynamic bearing will tend to resist an ever greater force with an ever greater pressure on that side of the face. That's probably why there isn't any noticeable wear(noticeable as in totally/very worn out).

I'm sure you like to blame it on me being an absolute idiot at Tech for disagreeing with you on the real life application of theory here, so I bet it will distress you to hear that I will be graduating in less than a month. To top it off, I'm only having to take 6 hrs of classes to finish up the curriculum - so I've been done with all my "serious" ME courses for quite a while now. I haven't exactly struggled with the subject matter either...


Amir, if you're so eager to attack someone's comprehension of a subject, why don't you explain in your own words what torsional vibrations are and how a crank pulley damps them. What variables would affect the natural frequency where this torsional vibration occurred, and how does a solid crank pulley make things "bad?"

Not everybody is well versed in System Dynamics, but it doesn't make them an idiot...



JC has been pretty understanding through this whole "thread crapping" ordeal, and the only personal attacks I see are coming from you.

I'm superior to you in all kinds of ways B*tch, don't call me stupid when you know exactly the behavior I am talking about...to point out one specific example off the top of my head, to your attention, cause obviously you act like you don't know. Once upon a time their was this ***** that wanted to buy a UUC exhaust..he told the buyer he wanted and after haggling with price for some time, he decided he was still not satisfied and went and posted a billion threads around bf.c asking all kinds of retarted questions, and basically had no intention to buy, but just wanted to shit on someone's sale..There have been a few other times that I have personally seen you crap on threads. Anyhow, the point of that was don't try and do something yourself and get all self defensive when someone ask a legit question in your thread. "Techno" knows tens times more than you ever will about cars and what he is saying is correct, although that may be far beyond your capabilities to understand. You think you have spent money on your engine bragging about 9 g's try over 40g's on just motor related work on one car and even then I still will be far superior as take the car you have and multiply it by 3 and that's how many I have sitting in the garage below me right now. As I said before, good luck with your sale and don't make anymore attacks on me because I will respond, I'm not gonna sit here and let you think you can talk sh*t and attack members.

Amir


Amir, the uuc pipe was a rip off. I managed to figure that out before I wasted my money. Too bad for the guy trying to get top dollar from me when it was not worth it. I managed to get Geordie's Stromung pipe. He was not being a knuckle head about selling his pipe.


I was not bragging about spending 9k. That should be painfully obvious. All I was doing to showing everyone that your idiotic post telling me how I make threads asking about stuff and never do it(like it should matter to anyone with a life) was just that, idiotic and held no water.

Now you taking my point and saying "oh man 9k? Try 40g's" :rofl, you have a complex Amir. First you say you are superior in every way. Then you go on to brag about how you have spent almost 4 times what I have on my engine. Get over yourself, you big headed dweeb. No one gives a crap what you have spent compared to others.

Like I said you are struggling. I am sure it is clear to everyone here that when techno posted his thoughts on cp's I did not attack him(in my own thread lol). Amir, go argue your "points" to a 3rd grade classroom, where your arguments will hold up.

So everyone knows. Techno and me have talked and this argument is staying here in this thread. Neither of us think it is worth being buttholes in real life over. Or even taking things beyond this thread on the boards. :cool

Amir, the uuc pipe was a rip off. I managed to figure that out before I wasted my money. Too bad for the guy trying to get top dollar from me when it was not worth it. I managed to get Geordie's Stromung pipe. He was not being a knuckle head about selling his pipe.


I was not bragging about spending 9k. That should be painfully obvious. All I was doing to showing everyone that your idiotic post telling me how I make threads asking about stuff and never do it(like it should matter to anyone with a life) was just that, idiotic and held no water.

Now you taking my point and saying "oh man 9k? Try 40g's" :rofl, you have a complex Amir. First you say you are superior in every way. Then you go on to brag about how you have spent almost 4 times what I have on my engine. Get over yourself, you big headed dweeb. No one gives a crap what you have spent compared to others.

Like I said you are struggling. I am sure it is clear to everyone here that when techno posted his thoughts on cp's I did not attack him(in my own thread lol). Amir, go argue your "points" to a 3rd grade classroom, where your arguments will hold up.


Whatever you say buddy :lol Since I have no idea about anything that really explains why both me and my brother have been able to pull the most NA streetable horsepower out of the e36 motor. On top of that neither one of us are running a crank pulley or a lightweight flywheel and I promise you no matter how much engine work you do, and how much oil nut welding you do, you are not gonna be able to pull the same results.

Whatever you say buddy :lol Since I have no idea about anything that really explains why both me and my brother have been able to pull the most NA streetable horsepower out of the e36 motor. On top of that neither one of us are running a crank pulley or a lightweight flywheel and I promise you no matter how much engine work you do, and how much oil nut welding you do, you are not gonna be able to pull the same results.


Quote me where I said you didn't know anything about motors. Or even where I questioned your car? Instead of sticking to any one point(that is on subject for that matter) you are jumping all over the place trying to put words in my mouth. I also seem to remember you asking questions about a crank pulley, I thought you knew so much about cars?(as you are insinuating)

You are surprising me though. This whole time I thought that you payed other people to do the engine work for. But it seems through your awesome knowledge you have managed to engineer and labor all of the work yourself. Kudos.

I'll remain neutral, but Amir has pulled apart S50's and S52's many times and has done obd1 conversions, supercharger installs, etc. I don't think his experience or knowledge in them should be in question here. The only thing he "pays" to have done is machine shop work such as port and polish and milling.

You can't have an infinitely stiff crank anyway.

I can.

I'll remain neutral, but Amir has pulled apart S50's and S52's many times and has done obd1 conversions, supercharger installs, etc. I don't think his experience or knowledge in them should be in question here. The only thing he "pays" to have done is machine shop work such as port and polish and milling.

That's cool, I can respect people who do whatever they can. As I said to him, kudos for that.

I can.

:rofl

damn, this turned into a shit storm.....

Techno, not stirring anything up here, but curious as to who exactly told you this - "You have a harmonic damper on the front of the engine... for the engine... and one on the back for the driveline." -about what amounts to the flywheel? for the vast majority of engines out there, the counterweighted flywheel performs as a damper for the engine, in conjunction with the damper at the crank snout.
we both know that running a lightweight flywheel results in an increased TV load on the crank, much as the UDP does. main difference is tranny input shaft/clutch assembly on that end. the added TV results in the infamous tranny rattle.....While one is the more 'accepted' method, seems much like a pick your poison sort of scenario due to the result most people have.
Are UDP or lightweight Flywheels good for the rotating assembly? No. removing either is a gamble.
As a data point for all - have had a UDP on the M for over 50k miles at this point. at about 30k-ish miles was in the bottom of the motor (pump nut issue). Did some poking around while in there and found no discernable wear on the main that I looked at.
basis of my point of view - many, many years working on these things (plus other makes), plus experience wrenching on World Challenge cars. You guys would not believe what passes for a flywheel in that series.......

damn, this turned into a shit storm.....

Techno, not stirring anything up here, but curious as to who exactly told you this - "You have a harmonic damper on the front of the engine... for the engine... and one on the back for the driveline." -about what amounts to the flywheel? for the vast majority of engines out there, the counterweighted flywheel performs as a damper for the engine, in conjunction with the damper at the crank snout.
we both know that running a lightweight flywheel results in an increased TV load on the crank, much as the UDP does. main difference is tranny input shaft/clutch assembly on that end. the added TV results in the infamous tranny rattle.....While one is the more 'accepted' method, seems much like a pick your poison sort of scenario due to the result most people have.
Are UDP or lightweight Flywheels good for the rotating assembly? No. removing either is a gamble.
As a data point for all - have had a UDP on the M for over 50k miles at this point. at about 30k-ish miles was in the bottom of the motor (pump nut issue). Did some poking around while in there and found no discernable wear on the main that I looked at.
basis of my point of view - many, many years working on these things (plus other makes), plus experience wrenching on World Challenge cars. You guys would not believe what passes for a flywheel in that series.......


The damper on the snout is a hub-elastomer-mass type. For a while, there was also a hub-elastomer-mass type damper on the guibo of BMW's. That went away when they transitioned to dual mass flywheels.

The dual mass flywheel was designed for driveline torsional supression mostly, and thus only really handles higher frequencies. The dual mass flywheel being a low pass filter, and the damper on the front is tuned for a fiarly specific frequency that happens to be rather low, makes it seem that they'd be "for different tasks".