Raced a few cars this weekend. One was with a supercharged civic, later talked to the guy found out he ran 13.0 at the track. We went from a roll of about 25 and he pulled right threw me the first time, beating me by about 2 cars. Later, we did it again but he decided to give me a head start. So we went again, but this time he didn't pull at all, the distance between us stayed the same. When we talked he said his car isn't running right, and I believe him since if he said he ran 13.0 he should definitly be beating me.

The second race was with a Ford Lightning. We went from a stop, but he went first, and I spun alot till about 40. We didn't race long, maybe till 60-70 and he had about 2 cars on me, I think if we went from 40 I'd stay with him.

Last race was with an E46 323 (that's now the 2.5 liter, right?). He went first, and we only raced from 60-80 which is a very short race, a matter of seconds. Since he went first and we only raced for a few seconds I didn't immediatly pass him, but I felt my car pulling him in fast. We stopped at a light and he said "Damn man is that thing supercharged?". I said "nah it's a stock M3". He was cool and then we went our own ways.

you wouldn't pull or hang with the lightning. Unless you are FI'd or have every N/A mod. Trust me.

E36 M3 vs. SVT Lightning (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=312698&)

Could have been the slowest Lightning ever made?

stock lightning vs e36 with bolt ons is a good match. I've beaten 2 stock lightnings at the track, not by much, but still a win.

the vortech sc for the civic si b16a_ yields around 270-280whp
or maybe he just had the jackson racing one

the vortech sc for the civic si b16a_ yields around 270-280whp


Not happenin' brother. Maybe a Full Race turbo setup, but the Vortech system will not make that much power out of that motor. Hell we did a Vortech setup on a S2000 and only made about 285 rwhp. I would guess 220 whp tops out of Vortechs B16 kits. Pissant import motors need the efficiency of a turbo. It costs them power they don't have to spare turning that blower.

I am sure a Lightning owner will chime in, but I do believe that they were signifigantly slower before '02...

I am sure a Lightning owner will chime in, but I do believe that they were signifigantly slower before '02...

Yes, they did get a bump in power that year.

Yeah who knows maybe the owner of the lightning wasn't trying his best. Thats why I didn't get too excited though I knew what those things are capable of.

Aren't Lightnings like a total BITCH to launch because of all the god damn torque in the truck?

And I'm assuming at higher speeds, it'd be closer, because the wind resistance would just murder the momentum of a truck.

I am sure a Lightning owner will chime in, but I do believe that they were signifigantly slower before '02...

In 02, the steel driveshaft was replaced with aluminum, 3.55s were dropped in favor of 3.73s. Claimed HP went from (a claimed) 360 hp to 390, but later Lightnings dyno at like 360 hp, so Ford is underrating these somewhat.

Current Lightnings are often in the low 13s on the track, older Lightnings can sometimes run almost as slow as 14 sec.

Aren't Lightnings like a total BITCH to launch because of all the god damn torque in the truck?

And I'm assuming at higher speeds, it'd be closer, because the wind resistance would just murder the momentum of a truck.

Can be. Good tires can fix that though. A brand new set of F1s and you can floor it from a stop without wheelspin.

0-80 is absolutely amazing. Pinned to the seat rush of adrenaline, at least till you get used to it. I forget how fast my truck is sometimes, only to be reminded when a passenger starts screaming for mercy while I move at a (to me) slow rate of acceleration. From 100 on it slows noticeably, and at the 3-4 upshift at 115-120 acceleration starts to suck. Top speed is 142 or 147, depending on the model year, stock. Takes a while to get up there. The Lightning is VERY well planted to approx. 130, then all of a sudden it gets hairy.

Not happenin' brother. Maybe a Full Race turbo setup, but the Vortech system will not make that much power out of that motor. Hell we did a Vortech setup on a S2000 and only made about 285 rwhp. I would guess 220 whp tops out of Vortechs B16 kits. Pissant import motors need the efficiency of a turbo. It costs them power they don't have to spare turning that blower.
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
Not happening? i've been working/playing/testing and tuning these engines for the last 6 years. instead of benchracing, try google.

but don't trust me., trust the 100's and maybe 1000's of civic si's running around with vortech sc's. trust this magazine
http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/features/0201ht_vortech/
http://www.clubsi.com/video/330hp_dyno_hq.wmv
DOWNLOAD THAT, that's with a bit of extra mods.
330WHP
213 Ft-lbs
@ 13psi


those are superchargers.

check honda-tech.com for other dynos

maybe they dont know how to mod hondas down where you live, but in CA, we make all cars fast. pissant import motors 'need' turbos? sheeeit, according to the FI forum here, i need to spend 10-15k to just break 400whp on 91 octane with my 95 m3. Hondas can make more power with less money and more reliability.

[QUOTE=comptechgsr
according to the FI forum here, i need to spend 10-15k to just break 400whp on 91 octane with my 95 m3.[/QUOTE]

You got that part right. Im just talking about your average Civic owner with light supporting mods strapping on a Vortech. If your gonna do cams, build the head and/or shortblock so and so forth, maybe. But on an otherwise mostly stock B16, your smoking crack if you think that Vortech kit will make 280 whp. You can send me all the mag threads you want, Im just speaking from my experiance. The shop I work at is the number 5 Vortech distuributor in the US, we've done a few FI imports here and there (BMW's and Honda's for that matter). Im not talking out of my ass, but Ive seen what it takes to get imports to the power level you speak of (and it most certainly can be done, that and way beyond) but not by strapping on a Vortech and rocking out. Anybody with an import who is serious about making big power almost always goes turbo, and there is a good reason for that. See my last post.

phanta-z,

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0002234RW.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

sit down benchracer!! :D

My buddy has a 96 camaro ss with a couple bolt ons and raced a 03 lightning or an 04 not sure which one and the lightning took him off the line then the camaro caught up and had him by half a car they went from a roll again and the camaro lost

Not happenin' brother. Maybe a Full Race turbo setup, but the Vortech system will not make that much power out of that motor. Hell we did a Vortech setup on a S2000 and only made about 285 rwhp. I would guess 220 whp tops out of Vortechs B16 kits. Pissant import motors need the efficiency of a turbo. It costs them power they don't have to spare turning that blower.

Centrifugal blowers make 280 whp on b series motors. Full race turbo kits make upwards of 400-700 whp believe me I know, all of my friends have their equal length race manifold and GT35R turbos and riding in a 92 hatch that traps 130 on the street is scary stuff.

The only problem is the powerband for that 280 whp sucks ass, it's like 200 whp till 6000 where it sharply spikes up to 280 within the last 2000 rpms. Also 285 whp on a SC s2000 is low boost and a very conservative tune.

Don't be a ricer and talk about pissant import motors, there are plenty of 9/10 second b series STREET CARS here in TX not even talking about the SR20 or 2JZ supras. If you're an enthusiast you can appreciate power, you don't see me calling you a redneck cause you drive a camaro. LS1's are cool and turbo Bseries are cool just in different ways.

You must be on the crack dude, centrifugal blowers make 280 whp on b series motors. Full race turbo kits make upwards of 400+ believe me I know, all of my friends have their equal length race manifold and GT35R turbos.

The only problem is the powerband for that 280 whp sucks ass, it's like 200 whp till 6000 where it sharply spikes up to 280 within the last 2000 rpms. Also 285 whp on a SC s2000 is low boost and a very conservative tune. Don't be a ricer and talk about pissant import motors, there are plenty of 9/10 second b series STREET CARS here in TX not even talking about the SR20 or 2JZ supras.

way to rep it cosmos m,

but yeah, centrifugal blowers are actually pretty good for the b-series hondas, since max power/max torque comes in at high revs. it would suck to have it happen at low revs in which it would just break traction and burn out....
at least at higher revs/higher speed in that gear, there is more traction...

Aren't Lightnings like a total BITCH to launch because of all the god damn torque in the truck?

And I'm assuming at higher speeds, it'd be closer, because the wind resistance would just murder the momentum of a truck.
Watch the profanity. But on stock tires and leaf springs (is that right spelling?) it is hard to launch. Well you can't just floor it and take off. THey have to feather the throttle and wait for 2nd gear. Also the "flying brick" title doesn't really take effect until speeds of like 120+.

But lightnings did get a jump in power, but I can't think exactly what the numbers are. If Trepan chimes in, he can inform us on the exact numbers.

phanta-z,

sit down benchracer!! :D
:lol3 haha, funny picture, but phanta-z is no bench racer. He only speaks from expereince, and speaks the truth.

Watch the profanity. But on stock tires and leaf springs (is that right spelling?) it is hard to launch. Well you can't just floor it and take off. THey have to feather the throttle and wait for 2nd gear. Also the "flying brick" title doesn't really take effect until speeds of like 120+.

But lightnings did get a jump in power, but I can't think exactly what the numbers are. If Trepan chimes in, he can inform us on the exact numbers.

No one read my post :(

I am sure a Lightning owner will chime in, but I do believe that they were signifigantly slower before '02...


Yes they are. My Civic Si ('99) with bolt ons and a 60 shot would hang with my friends Lightning ('99). Neck and neck to be exact.

Yes they are. My Civic Si ('99) with bolt ons and a 60 shot would hang with my friends Lightning ('99). Neck and neck to be exact.

Sounds about right, I've seen bolton SI's with a really good driver hit 14.7, with a 60 shot I imagine you could get that down to a high 13 @ around 101-102

:lol3 haha, funny picture, but phanta-z is no bench racer. He only speaks from expereince, and speaks the truth.

Here is the cliff notes explanation.




in a response to Comptechgsr's post about vortech supercharged honda civic si's hitting 270-280whp, Phanta-Z said

he said,
"Not happenin' brother. Maybe a Full Race turbo setup, but the Vortech system will not make that much power out of that motor. Hell we did a Vortech setup on a S2000 and only made about 285 rwhp. I would guess 220 whp tops out of Vortechs B16 kits. Pissant import motors need the efficiency of a turbo. It costs them power they don't have to spare turning that blower."

He even said himself that he has no experience with the B16 kits, and he made the conclusion based on the S2000 vortech gains. That's not even bench-racing. That's assuming. He then makes the the stunna claim about pissant import motors needing turbo to make "any" power etc etc.

Hmmm....my lightning is a heck of alot easier to launch than my 330ti. I cut 1.9 60ft times my first time out in the L, but can't even get down to 2.1's with my hatch after about 20 passes last season.

I suppose if you hog-foot the throttle it will be spin-city, but with about 26psi in the stock 295/45 F1's, the rear-end is fairly planted for the amount of low-end grunt the truck pushes.

Being automatic has alot to do with it, too. That's why you don't see alot of SRT-10s pulling the times they are rated at......they have alot more snap torque, a clutch, and less tire (not width-wise...but sidewall) to negotiate on the launch. Much easier to screw-up the launch with a manual tranny than an auto.

This is just me, though.

You got that part right. Im just talking about your average Civic owner with light supporting mods strapping on a Vortech. If your gonna do cams, build the head and/or shortblock so and so forth, maybe. But on an otherwise mostly stock B16, your smoking crack if you think that Vortech kit will make 280 whp. You can send me all the mag threads you want, Im just speaking from my experiance. The shop I work at is the number 5 Vortech distuributor in the US, we've done a few FI imports here and there (BMW's and Honda's for that matter).

from my experience, and the above posted links,
270-280whp on a b16 was achieved using the vortech sc kit (including fuel pressure optimizer, fuel management unit, auxiliary inline fuel pump and a Maxflow billet fuel rail. air to water aftercooler), aftermarket header, aftermarket cat-back, and STOCK cats.

So, that's basically the Supercharger kit and header/exhaust.


but with cams, built head/s-block, you can get OVER 270-280whp.

and i agree with you,
for more power, small displacement engines go turbo.

No one read my post :(
I did, but it seemed like nobody seemed to understand when you posted, so I re-itterated. ;)

Don't worry, I'm working with ya, TEAM WORK BABY!! :stickoutt

I'm loving the respect Lightnings get here :D

Ok, so to fix a little bit of misinformation: 02 was not the year all the changes were made, it was 03. Also to the OP: from a 40 roll you would have lost again. The only time you have an advantage in this matchup is from 0-30 if the L is stock, if it has some sort of track tire (and you'd be scared to know how many run them all the time) and traction bars you'll only see tail lights. And then over 110 somewhere you'll stop the gap and start to make up lost ground real fast.

I'm loving the respect Lightnings get here :D

Ok, so to fix a little bit of misinformation: 02 was not the year all the changes were made, it was 03. Also to the OP: from a 40 roll you would have lost again. The only time you have an advantage in this matchup is from 0-30 if the L is stock, if it has some sort of track tire (and you'd be scared to know how many run them all the time) and traction bars you'll only see tail lights. And then over 110 somewhere you'll stop the gap and start to make up lost ground real fast.
took you long enough to chime in. Jeeezzzz, where have ya been cockboy?

took you long enough to chime in. Jeeezzzz, where have ya been cockboy?
Some of us have to work. Or alteast do a great job of pretending :D

Oh and practice what you constantly preach and watch that language. :eyecrazy

Some of us have to work. Or alteast do a great job of pretending :D

Oh and practice what you constantly preach and watch that language. :eyecrazy
lol you don't work. YOu are like me, you sit in front of a computer all day, and can get away with being on the internet.

and calling you a cockboy is not profanity, it is a personal attack and/or flame and would fall into a different category, still punishable by TO or Ban, but it is not like I am flaming you and trying to be offensive over some dumb post you did, I am calling you cockboy because i call you that in a friendly manner. ;)

I'm loving the respect Lightnings get here :D

Ok, so to fix a little bit of misinformation: 02 was not the year all the changes were made, it was 03. Also to the OP: from a 40 roll you would have lost again. The only time you have an advantage in this matchup is from 0-30 if the L is stock, if it has some sort of track tire (and you'd be scared to know how many run them all the time) and traction bars you'll only see tail lights. And then over 110 somewhere you'll stop the gap and start to make up lost ground real fast.

My 02 has a 90mm maf, 3.73s, and all of the late model lights grills and such :D

It was '01 that had all the upgrades.
Ugraded aftercooler, 3.73 rear, Bilstein shocks, 90mm MAF,better flowing airbox and air channel in the fender. rated at 380hp/450tq.

I don't know about all the cosmetic changes, though.

I was originally looking for an '01, but the "spitting sparkplugs" didn't sit well with me, so I went with an '03.

Ok heres the deal...

Most of you guys who know me and know my post know Im not one to BS around and talk out of my ass. So when something comes up like in this post I don't refer to magazine times and/or individual claims. So I had one of my import guys do a little research (yes this has been bugging me for the last 2 days) and bottom line....I stand corrected. For whatever reason, this blower setup tends to work extremely well on the B16 motors. I was extrapolating my power figures from other vehicles we had done and my knowledge of FI in general. And in this case, there's more than meets the eye. I even went so far as to call a few guys at Vortech that I trust, and they confirmed, rather proudly, that the Vortech setup mentioned here will make 260-270 whp on a B16 with little trouble. I mentioned a few of the other imports we had put Vortech's on and while it didn't really add up to me, the bottom line is this kit just makes power more than you'd think. I had a similar lesson last fall with a Hundai Tiburon of all things, again with a Vortech, when I bet it wouldn't make a tick over 220 whp, and it laid down 282. You can't be right all the time. :cool

Ok heres the deal...

Most of you guys who know me and know my post know Im not one to BS around and talk out of my ass. So when something comes up like in this post I don't refer to magazine times and/or individual claims. So I had one of my import guys do a little research (yes this has been bugging me for the last 2 days) and bottom line....I stand corrected. For whatever reason, this blower setup tends to work extremely well on the B16 motors. I was extrapolating my power figures from other vehicles we had done and my knowledge of FI in general. And in this case, there's more than meets the eye. I even went so far as to call a few guys at Vortech that I trust, and they confirmed, rather proudly, that the Vortech setup mentioned here will make 260-270 whp on a B16 with little trouble. I mentioned a few of the other imports we had put Vortech's on and while it didn't really add up to me, the bottom line is this kit just makes power more than you'd think. I had a similar lesson last fall with a Hundai Tiburon of all things, again with a Vortech, when I bet it wouldn't make a tick over 220 whp, and it laid down 282. You can't be right all the time. :cool
BURRRNNN!!!hehe j/k ;)
Ack geez phanta, it isn't often we get to see you make a mistake. Tis a hard thing to admit, I know. (I have to do it alot :stickoutt). But a tiburon made 282? Dayum, that is impressive in a sad sort of way. I have to say I hate those cars. :)

They say the measure of a man is how many times he makes the same mistake, and while I make plenty, I try not to make the same one over and over, and admit when Im wrong. And I was. So it goes. :cool

Ok heres the deal...

Most of you guys who know me and know my post know Im not one to BS around and talk out of my ass. So when something comes up like in this post I don't refer to magazine times and/or individual claims. So I had one of my import guys do a little research (yes this has been bugging me for the last 2 days) and bottom line....I stand corrected. For whatever reason, this blower setup tends to work extremely well on the B16 motors. I was extrapolating my power figures from other vehicles we had done and my knowledge of FI in general. And in this case, there's more than meets the eye. I even went so far as to call a few guys at Vortech that I trust, and they confirmed, rather proudly, that the Vortech setup mentioned here will make 260-270 whp on a B16 with little trouble. I mentioned a few of the other imports we had put Vortech's on and while it didn't really add up to me, the bottom line is this kit just makes power more than you'd think. I had a similar lesson last fall with a Hundai Tiburon of all things, again with a Vortech, when I bet it wouldn't make a tick over 220 whp, and it laid down 282. You can't be right all the time.

They say the measure of a man is how many times he makes the same mistake, and while I make plenty, I try not to make the same one over and over, and admit when Im wrong. And I was. So it goes. :cool

yo man,
this is, by far, the best post i've ever seen in many a car forum. A lot of people (myself among many) will not even want to be corrected when wrong, especially within an online community with no real bodies and faces. Good stuff, man. Car forums are all about helping auto enthusiasts learn more about what they love!!!

Cheers Phanta-Z!! :drink1

Tom's a class act... and please watch the colorful nicknames for one another.... :D

Tom's a class act... and please watch the colorful nicknames for one another.... :D
lol, ack, okay..... I will. :(