I've owned 4 E36's ... 1 e34 ... and 1 e46 ... But recently I fell in love with a 19XX E21 320i.

I'm thinking of buying it and trying to get some of you guys to help me decide what I could do to it to make it a little racer ... and if it would keep my fancy for a year (as I rarely keep a car that long ... I'd like to hang on to this)

I'd be buying the car outright and oweing nothing, rather than in my current E36M3 ... so that is why I am considering this

But it is Black on Black with factory Recaro seats 4 speed manual. It has only 55K MILES ON IT! and is truly flawless inside and out, except the chrome parts of the bumpers which probably need re-finishing.

Best part ... only $2500!

Is that high or low considering the car ... also, about what year is this car?

It is right across the street from my grandfather and it has been for sale forever in a very small town, but they have only advertised it with a sign in the window ... because they aren't too pressed to sell it

Should I snag it up?

Anybody seen one with the recaro seats in it?

It's truly beautiful ... post me up some pictures of clean black on blacks

Thanks Guys

Jeff

if it's a 4 speed it's probably a pre 1980...you can always look it over and grab the vin and run it through a vin checker and it will tell you year, production date etc....

http://www.bmw-z1.com/VIN/VINdecode-e.cgi is one I found...there may be better ones out there, but I'm not sure.

If it's pre 1981 it will only have a 7 digit vin since the standardized 17 digit vin numbers didn't come around until 1981.....

I'm going to check it out this weekend ... I checked it out back in the day and I dont remember out all the info. It may actually be a 5 speed ... It's a sporty looking car

if it's a 4 speed it's probably a pre 1980...you can always look it over and grab the vin and run it through a vin checker and it will tell you year, production date etc....

http://www.bmw-z1.com/VIN/VINdecode-e.cgi is one I found...there may be better ones out there, but I'm not sure.

If it's pre 1981 it will only have a 7 digit vin since the standardized 17 digit vin numbers didn't come around until 1981.....
huh, that says my car is a saloon, I thought saloon meant sedan? Everything else was right though.

Anybody seen one with the recaro seats in it?

Only sport models came with the factory recaro seats along with a rear sway bar and lsd which would definetly be a plus if it is actually a "is" and not the owner that has just swapped seats.

As for the price it is a little high but if it is in really mint condition and only 55k miles on it than it is not bad. Plus I am a huge fan of black on black and this seems to be very rare in e21's especially in the sport models. (at least in my experiences)

Anyways hope this helped. Post more info after you take a look over the car. :buttrock

-Jesse

I've owned 4 E36's ... 1 e34 ... and 1 e46 ... But recently I fell in love with a 19XX E21 320i.

I'm thinking of buying it and trying to get some of you guys to help me decide what I could do to it to make it a little racer ... and if it would keep my fancy for a year (as I rarely keep a car that long ... I'd like to hang on to this)

I'd be buying the car outright and oweing nothing, rather than in my current E36M3 ... so that is why I am considering this

But it is Black on Black with factory Recaro seats 4 speed manual. It has only 55K MILES ON IT! and is truly flawless inside and out, except the chrome parts of the bumpers which probably need re-finishing.

Best part ... only $2500!

Is that high or low considering the car ... also, about what year is this car?

It is right across the street from my grandfather and it has been for sale forever in a very small town, but they have only advertised it with a sign in the window ... because they aren't too pressed to sell it

Should I snag it up?

Anybody seen one with the recaro seats in it?

It's truly beautiful ... post me up some pictures of clean black on blacks

Thanks Guys

Jeff


"Only 2500". Most of the cars on this site would trade hands for about 1k. Period. Attilla, CJ, and Nic (Mattk and Jason are damn close, but the miles on the chassis are wowzer) are some of the ones that would definatly be worth more than the average. Most of that is because of the extream ammount of detail they take care of their cars with.

If they have maint. records and the car runs and drives fine without problems, I'd consider it, but all the rubber on that sucker is going to need replacing if it hasn't been done yet. That's not cheap. If it's been taken care of for the 55k miles it was driven, it'd be a nice car to pick up, but on the other hand, mine only had 80k when I bought it.


I've sunk ALOT of money into it(I'm thinking close to 4kish, I don't want to think about it more than that) in a mere 6k miles, and 2 years of ownership, and it's not going to stop anytime soon. The engine was trashed because the previous owner had no concept of oil changes, or radiator fluid(water is NOT OK). And a whole slew of other little mechanical gremlins. So I've got an engine from a 91 318i that I'm in the process of putting into it. I've replace the suspension with sports stuff(stock was DEAD), and put a kicking sound system into it, which account for a good chunk of the money I've spent on the car. When I get everything mechanically sound, then I'm going to start on the cosmetics, because it needs it(frame is bent, paint is flaking, US bumpers SUCK, 13'' wheels are lame, so on so forth).

In short, if you find the right one(there have been previous write ups about this, I've written several 'essay' type responses of what to look for ect, use the search function) you're golden for that price. But without a good history, it might as well have 255k miles on it, because you'd be in the same spot.

I called my grandfather and made him run outside and check. It is the sport model

Also, the old couple that owns it bought the car new. So it has only had one owner -- I'd fancy a guess to say they also have the maint records. I kid not on the condition -- The leather on the interior has not a single crack, and is a beautiful interior -- better than most 2-3 year old cars

What do you think would be a good price?

Stock they are decent little cars, with well thought out modifications they can be quite impressive. They are NOT like the newer more refined BMWs you have owned, they are a little rough around the edges-but I like that.

If the car is truly mint $2500 is not horrible but try to get it for a less if possible.

These cars respond very well to modifications like upgraded shocks/struts/springs/sway bars/urethane bushings. The engines are pretty bullet proof but require a little effort to make real power however it's easily doable.... I am a huge fan of programable EFI and run a MegaSquirt conversion on my '82-beats the pants of CIS and is not killer expensive. These engines LOVE a great header/custom exhaust, over the counter stuff is OK but custom makes much more power! Check my website at www.e21motorsports.com/kendanielson to see my cars. I think e21's are the best BMW bang for the buck there is.

ken

What kind of power do you think I could put down with one of these?

How much $ to make a decent gain?

What do you call a decent gain? Do you have smog laws to contend with?

100-110hp (flywheel) stock depending on the displacement of your engine. How about a 20% increase for $750 or so. or... 50% increase for about $1300 or.... 100% increase for $3000. or.... Huge hp if you can do a custom turbo installation... $$$

ken

well, lets start off my ramblings on this one with some basic facts:

If it's an original sport model, ZERO rust, confirmed 55k on engine, runs smooth, a/c works, all original parts, no dash cracks, original tape deck (blaupaunk i believe correct me if im wrong), complete sport toolkit in the trunk, and all service records from a confirmed one owner car that's been garaged, and paint is perfect, then it is most definately worh every penny of $2,500

should you pay 2,500 for it? hell no! you say the coupple is old, perfect, chances are they cant drive stick anymore, and need to get rid of the car. Show them the kelly blue book on it, which i dont hink is more than $1200 at the most, and see what they say about that as an offer.

Also, if you do get the car, you should consider thinking about keeping it as is, 100% original, resotore the bumpers, if they're bad like you say.

Roundel, and several magasines just recently have been looking for stock, mint E21's for photoshoots, linking, i assume for the release of the 1 series.

If you want some fun fast power from an E21, you gotta dump several grand into the motor, or consider turbo or a swap.

this car, if you can post pics of it for us, if it has all the requirements on my list, should be bought and kept as is.

You can find decent E21's that are cheap, rust free, and higher mileage, in average shape to play around with and modify to hell.

You also mention that you go thru cars quick, i would advise you think about the market for such a car. If you pick it up for 2,500, there's very, very few people that will pay that price for it down the line. Us enthusiasts know the value, but the odds of you finding someone willing to pay you that ammount for it, are low. So if this is a car you are thinking about picking up and getting rid of in a few years, i would say, dont bother. It will take you longer than you will want it to take to sell it.

Summary: if it all checks out from my stuff above, its a keeper, and worht 2,500
Should u pay that: no way.
Should u keep is forever if u get it? : yes. in stock form

sorry for the rant, im in one of those typing like crazy moods tonight.

not to get off topic but this talk about a sprt model makes me wonder, can somone check out my car and tell me if it's a sport model? it doesn't say "is" on the back but i think it has recaros and it has a different steering wheel. heres the link

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/802777

not to get off topic but this talk about a sprt model makes me wonder, can somone check out my car and tell me if it's a sport model? it doesn't say "is" on the back but i think it has recaros and it has a different steering wheel. heres the link

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/802777

Sorry bud, but you're a regular 320i with recaro and steering wheel swap.

Sport model 320's came debadged :devillook and also have a bigger toolkit in the trunk along with front and rear swaybars and a lsd. Nice score tho on the seats and wheel! much sought after.

i've been tryin to sell the thing forever for $350 bucks and haven't had much luck, i had a sale pending but still unsure about it, ive thought about parting it though, but i dont have the time and the shipping cost would suck.

i've been tryin to sell the thing forever for $350 bucks and haven't had much luck, i had a sale pending but still unsure about it, ive thought about parting it though, but i dont have the time and the shipping cost would suck.


I would definetly part it out. If those seats are in even decent condition you could get more for them than you are selling your whole car for. Plus you could make money off the sport steering wheel etc...

Sorry for thread jack. ;)

Back on topic...

Policaly correct legal discalimer: I am not a BMW purist, I am an old school hotrodder... Driving is not just a way to get where I want to go, to me it's entertainment! If I can't enjoy driving my cars I might as well just end it all now...

I disagree with keeping the car stock, these cars are not valuable even when cherry and won't be collectors items until I am long dead (after that-who gives a rat's butt!). Every produciton car is full of compromises and most of them I am unwilling to accept. As I said earlier, stock they are just OK but not much fun, modified they are a kick in the butt! Build it the way YOU want it to be.

My '82 was down for 2 weeks with a broken alternator bracket and I was driving my stock(ish) '78. When I got the '82 back up I realized how much better and more fun it is than my '78! The '78 is fine for my wife and daughter but it's just plain BORING to me! Leave stock for the masses, true enthusiast demand more!

ken

I have to agree with ken forget about stock build the car how you want it to be and have fun with it.

I agree with Ken as well. I have a 320 with a modified baby six in it. My car is almost as quick as an E36 M3. You can make them very quick, probelm is its pretty costly once you do the suspension, motor etc. The guy I bought the car from had over 14k in it, but its a completely new car under a 320 shell. I paid 7K, but Im sure a lot of these guys have well over that in their cars. Depends how fast and how far you want to go. If your used to driving an E36 or E46, you'll probably not be satisfied with the performance of these cars unless you go through the entire car. I currently drive an auto X5, so taking the E21 for a spin is always a blast for me.

I think that the car is definetly worth the asking price. If it is as you descibed it, a black/black, 320is, with only 55k, one owner, its worth $2500. If you dont end up buying it, get me the owners number and if I buy it Ill give you $100 for finding it.

I think that the car is definetly worth the asking price. If it is as you descibed it, a black/black, 320is, with only 55k, one owner, its worth $2500. If you dont end up buying it, get me the owners number and if I buy it Ill give you $100 for finding it.

I believe I'm making the 2.5hour plus journey today to go check it out. I plan on not going to my last class of the day so I can make it there with good weather and sunlight still out there. I am going to take a camera and take some real retailed shots of the car so I can get further opinion -- and also confirmation that it is a 320is and not just a 320i with some leather recaros and a leather wheel

Sounds like a nice car, and easily worth the asking price if in good shape. Local E21's sell for anywhere from $500-$4000. $2500 for a low mileage, clean 320is is more than fair.

As for mods, hack away! It's just a 320i. "is" or not, they made oodles of them, and they don't have a lot of value. A nice low mileage one is a good platform to build up. Were it a low mileage 323i, I would say tread lightly.

Just an FYI, the seats are vinyl, not leather.

Al

There is a nice 320is on ebay right now. The current bid is 500, and it seems to be in very good shape.

Just an FYI, the seats are vinyl, not leather.

Al

Actually --

The 320is came with cloth recaros ... and leather was an added option -- they have leather. I have sat in them

320iS (U.S.A)

Available: 1982-early 1983

Description: this was the Edition version for the USA. Mods below are compared to the ‘regular’ 1981-1982 US 320i:

Mods: dark grey cloth interior with Recaro sports seats (black leather optional), BBS front air dam and trunklid spoiler, 25% limited slip differential, leather three spoke sports steering wheel, leather shift knob, electric passenger side rear view mirror, halogen high beams, larger diameter front anti-roll bar, rear anti-roll bar, special cross-spoke (BBS-BMW Motorsport style) 5.5x13” alloy wheels, AM/FM stereo cassette radio, front fog lights, deluxe tool kit, model designation deleted.
Not available with auto transmission.

Avaliable colors: Schwarz (black), Alpine (white), Polaris-metallic (silver, optional

Actually, I am correct, they are vinyl. Unless someone paid big dollars to have them custom upholstered, they are vinyl.

I will hazard a guess that they look like this, right?
http://www.seamsperfect.ca/images/72verona/72veronaintrecaros.jpg

I'm probably not the guy to argue BMW upholstery with :)

Al

Actually, I am correct, they are vinyl. Unless someone paid big dollars to have them custom upholstered, they are vinyl.

I will hazard a guess that they look like this, right?
http://www.seamsperfect.ca/images/72verona/72veronaintrecaros.jpg

I'm probably not the guy to argue BMW upholstery with :)

Al
Ahh, Al, did you read my post. That is the manufacturer specs.

I also own an IS with vinyl recaros. Apparently there was three options.

Well, I've had dozens, and dozens, and dozens of E21 Recaro seats come through my shop. I have 15 of them in stock right now! Beyond that, I've owned or parted out 5 320is models. Even with all that, I have never seen one in leather! Also, I have a 1982 BMW upholstery guide, and it lists cloth, or leatherette as the olnly options in an E21. Finally, my British market 1981 BMW full line brochure only lists cloth or leatherette as an option. No mention of leather anywhere.

Now, I'm not saying it isn't possible, but I challenge you or anyone else on the board to find me an "original" E21 Recaro in leather.

Al

THe is was only made mid 82-83, so it probably wouldnt show up in that info. Im sure you could count on one finger how many people went for the leather upgrade on an E21. I did search the alpina site one time and there was like 2 or 3 cars that were produced with leather, so right there that tell you something.

Wha choo talkin' about only mid 82 and 83? I owned an 81 320is, and my upholstery guide lists the is for 82 as well. I've also parted another 81 320is a couple years back!

At any rate, I still say leather was not offered by BMW in the E21, and if it was, I highly doubt that the one mentioned in this thread actually has it!

EDIT - I just looked at ETK, and it only lists cloth, or "imitation leather" on all E21 models. I checked US spec 320is, and I also checked 323i. No leather anywhere.

Al

Here is some info I pulled off a website. Maybe it is not accurate, who knows. Ive only seen one S model and no E or John Player specials.

E21 Limited Editions



Edition ‘E’

Edition ‘S’

John Player Special

US 320iS



If you have any remarks or additions… let me know!



Edition ‘E’ (Western Europe)

This is where BMW started with limited editions to boost sales of models soon to be replaced…

Available: 1982

Mods: Opal green metallic paint, Wollvelours cloth ‘big’ comfort seats from the E12 5-series in Piniengrun, full interior in Piniergrun (green), three spoke leather sports steering wheel, rear headrests, 5.5x13” multispoke alloys in Opal green metallic, rear view mirrors in Opal green metallic

Available as: 318i, 320/6, 323i



Edition ‘S’ (Western Europe)

Available: 1982

Mods: Ascot grey or Graphite grey metallic paint, Recaro sports seats in Antrazit, interior Antrazit (grey), three spoke leather sports steering wheel, 5.5x13” cross spoke BBS alloys in silver, BBS deep front spoiler, black trunklid spoiler, sports suspension with gas pressure shocks (probably Sachs), rear view mirrors in vehicle body paint

Available as: 323i



JPS - John Player Special limited edition (United Kingdom & Australia)

These cars were introduced using the successes of the JPS sponsored racecars.

Available: 1981-1982

Description: All cars were black with gold JPS striping, JPS decals on C-pillars, dash plaque with production number, JPS horn button

Mods: Bilstein gas pressure shocks, Motorsport lowering springs (-25mm), black cloth Recaro sports seats, Motorsport deep front spoiler, suede three spoke sports steering wheel, sunroof, BBS/Mahle original Motorsport alloys in 7x13” with gold centres.

Optional: A/C, dogleg gearbox

Available as: 323i (no engine mods).



320iS (U.S.A)

Available: 1982-early 1983

Description: this was the Edition version for the USA. Mods below are compared to the ‘regular’ 1981-1982 US 320i:

Mods: dark grey cloth interior with Recaro sports seats (black leather optional), BBS front air dam and trunklid spoiler, 25% limited slip differential, leather three spoke sports steering wheel, leather shift knob, electric passenger side rear view mirror, halogen high beams, larger diameter front anti-roll bar, rear anti-roll bar, special cross-spoke (BBS-BMW Motorsport style) 5.5x13” alloy wheels, AM/FM stereo cassette radio, front fog lights, deluxe tool kit, model designation deleted.
Not available with auto transmission.

Avaliable colors: Schwarz (black), Alpine (white), Polaris-metallic (silver, optional)

I'm thinking the "P" in Pleather got dropped in the translation....

I have an '82 320is that is red and always has been, so I think some of the info is not completly accurate. I WISH it was black, white or silver... ANYTHING but red!!

ken

Actually, I am correct, they are vinyl. Unless someone paid big dollars to have them custom upholstered, they are vinyl.

I will hazard a guess that they look like this, right?
http://www.seamsperfect.ca/images/72verona/72veronaintrecaros.jpg

I'm probably not the guy to argue BMW upholstery with :)

Al

I have been to numrous junkyards and parted MANY 320i (S).
Ray has one set of recaros that I sold him, and I have the exact same set a perfect set of Black recaros. I had the bolster area fixed. I called it naglhide
and told the reholpster that a lot of NAGAs has to expire to cover my seats.
lol :) and he told me that they are vinly.

I also have found a set of cloth 320i recaros and I do have the picture of them.I am attaching a picture of them.

And let me say this, in all the years of looking and in all the places, and all the cars, I have never seen a stock leather 320i set of recaros. I have seen them rehupostered in leater, but never a leather set.

later,
J

Ive been told that my recaro's came from a Euro 635csi... They are covered in a black tweed. I like them... you don't move on that tweed...

Echo, the Euro 635 Recaros are the same as the E21 Recaros. Not sure if the tweed is original or not, but I do love tweed anyway! We have done lots of seats with it. My 1980 Euro 635 has black leather Recaros in it.

Joe, I have a few of those grey cloth ones in stock. I even have one as the driver's seat in my 535i right now.

Al

How about the other seats out of a six series?

I did notice a 633 in the yard.

Are thes recaros as well?

thanks
Joe

I don't know much about the upholstery of e21 recaros but if anyone on this forum would know it would be Al. Plus I have never seen a leather recaro e21 seat. Only vinyl like he said so I have to agree with him.

How about the other seats out of a six series?

I did notice a 633 in the yard.

Are thes recaros as well?

thanks
Joe

Hey Joe,

Recaros in E24's were optional, just like the E21. The 633 is not likely to have them.

Al