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awesome

Nice

even better

If you want a discount buy an e46 or wait until September when the coupe is on the verge of coming out.

Stop trying to cheapen the marque.

So you're saying you shouldn't try to haggle at all when buying a new car? Just pay MSRP?

Stop trying to cheapen the marque.

OF COURSE a dealer would say that. :lol :rolleyes

If you want a discount buy an e46 or wait until September when the coupe is on the verge of coming out.

Stop trying to cheapen the marque.

DUDE! Your on crack! Have you even been on the road, BMW's arent that exclusive. The marque is not that affluent anymore, unless youre getting an M car. As for discounts, its my money, and If I decide to go and buy a car from dealer b isntead of a because theyre offering a better deal I sure as heck will take it. Here, I got a new E90 for ya 10K over MSRP Im sure youll be the first to bite. Sheesh get over it. Opinions and ideas shared on the forum are one thing but to demand we establish your B.S. mentality is another. Sorry to rant my wife had her monthly bill come early and Im the one paying. LOL, though :D

If you want a discount buy an e46 or wait until September when the coupe is on the verge of coming out.

Stop trying to cheapen the marque.

No, it is sanctimonious attitudes like yours which cheapen the marque.

Stop trying to cheapen the marque.

I can understand that you want the biggest commission check possible. That's your job. But your approach is just plain tacky.

When I used to sell pro audio equipment, not once did I ever go to the Pro Tools web forum I frequented to tell them to stop seeking discounts. :nono

sofa king we todd did. :rolleyes

When you nickel and dime while trying to get a new car, it often makes the manufacturer strive to make cars that cost less, and the end result is the next version of the same car with less standard equipment. Most new BMWs no longer come equipped with LSDs and the interiors aren't of the same level of quality as they were in the late eighties and very early 90s because they've tried to find a medium between pleasing their customers and competing with other brands.

I can understand that you want the biggest commission check possible. That's your job. But your approach is just plain tacky.

When I used to sell pro audio equipment, not once did I ever go to the Pro Tools web forum I frequented to tell them to stop seeking discounts. :nono

sofa king we todd did. :rolleyes

To clarify... I'm not saying that every car should sell for full sticker every day. What I am saying (or trying to, anyway) is that it's unreasonable to strive for discounts on one of the first new three series that your dealer gets. Why should the price be cut when there aren't too many available and they're in high demand?

Simply put, for those that want discounts, wait until they are available in abundance.

When you nickel and dime while trying to get a new car, it often makes the manufacturer strive to make cars that cost less, and the end result is the next version of the same car with less standard equipment. Most new BMWs no longer come equipped with LSDs and the interiors aren't of the same level of quality as they were in the late eighties and very early 90s because they've tried to find a medium between pleasing their customers and competing with other brands.

You're little theory has one big problem; you only cut into the dealer's profit margin by negotiating a lower price.

Vehicle manufacturers will continually work to lower costs, regardless of what the dealer sells the car for, because that is what companies need to do in order to be successful.

I guess your theory is why the E90 330i is better equipped, and $100 less, than the E46 version. :rolleyes

To clarify... I'm not saying that every car should sell for full sticker every day. What I am saying (or trying to, anyway) is that it's unreasonable to strive for discounts on one of the first new three series that your dealer gets. Why should the price be cut when there aren't too many available and they're in high demand?

Simply put, for those that want discounts, wait until they are available in abundance.

It is neither unreasonable, nor unrealistic, to strive for a better deal than MSRP, regardless of the availability.

You are free to wait and waste your own money if that's what you believe, but don't expect other to throw away their money because of what you think is right or fair.

BMW dealers always piss the crap out of me because they keep saying that BMW only gives $600 discount maximum. That's bull. The discounts come from Dealer's cut. They buy it at invoice and sometimes less due to quotas being met, and sell it at MSRP. Sometimes there are rebates. For discounts, you are asking for some of the MSRP-Invoice-(Rebates and other promotions from BMW!!!!) BMW gets the same invoice price for each car being sold to the market. Meanwhile rebates and other promotions are officially from BMW NA. The other discounts are from the dealerships.

It's funny.....btw guys, if any of you live near Inskip dealership in RI, have a visit. There's a sales that hates and "got sick" of car forums and he claimed that E92 Coupe is coming out this september...I should have bet him a E90 car so he would shut the f*ck up, this is one thing that piss me off of sales, they are arrogant, cocky (while they cannot afford the car), and yet they just can't put their money on whatever they say :mad ...Oh....get this....he gave me a 3 pages article from "BMW" that says why they shouldn't give discounts...hahahahaha...i wanted to laugh so hard :nono

You won't be laughing when you get a trade-in or try to sell that T5 you're driving...wait till you see the value of that sled, but then again you prolly bought it at invoice minus rebates just like Ford would want it. You can always go buy another S60 for thousands UNDER invoice ya know and you will still lose out in the end.

All sales people aren't like this, I have been selling BMWs for years...I discount cars all the time. Btw, I have an e46 M3 and an X5 (some sales people can afford nice cars). Yes there are sales people who are tools, but some missinformed customers are as well (not directing this at you).

All sales people aren't like this, I have been selling BMWs for years...I discount cars all the time.

What do you mean, "like this?" In one of the threads above I mentioned that I discount cars on a regular basis too.

I'm not like most of the people in this car game out here. I genuinely know and like/love what I sell, and I'm not in this business to take advantage of any of my prospects or clients (not saying that you are, but I'm sure you've seen how some people are).

All sales people aren't like this, I have been selling BMWs for years...I discount cars all the time.

What do you mean, "like this?" In one of the threads above I mentioned that I discount cars on a regular basis too.

I'm not like most of the people in this car game out here. I genuinely know and like/love what I sell, and I'm not in this business to take advantage of any of my prospects or clients (not saying that you are, but I'm sure you've seen how some people are).

I wasn't referring to you at all. I was responding to and discussing his experience at a dealership. Quit being so defensive and read before you react.

MDreamer, I appreciate your views and I especially enjoy your type of salesmanship. I know that not all dealers are like as I described but majority are and I had a fair share of these kind of experience from numerous of brands which is why I ended up with my Volvo because at the time, that was the only dealer that actually spent time with me choosing between the Jag or the T5. While most of the BMW dealers I have been too have either not paid attention to me (that was bad month, always short staffed), or being just too damn cocky. And worst of all, they always piss me off by what they say. I think a salesman should help you choose a car and fight for your pricing since it doesn't go out of their pockets and one good sale can bring in a lot of other business as well. Especially when I like to refer my friends to merchants that I enjoy dealing with. And I am sick of the lies like "BMW only gives $600 discounts only and nothing more" when people on this forum gets "$2000+ off because there was a rebate from BMW on some of the e46 models. Well, back at home (I'm in college), I bought a BMW and finally found a good dealership that knows how to treat their customers. I am thinking of buying the e90 or the 5 series sometime soon so I'll have to see if the local dealers have changed their attitude. I know that the sales that I am talking with at the closest dealership is nice but he's still only giving me 2000 off for an e46 model. Not really what I'm looking for.

As for Snafu, well, good job. Hopefully your cars aren't bought below invoice or leased. If you bought it, then good for you. I just heard from a sales in a BMW dealership in Albany, NY that if you're a good sales, the dealership actually gives you a car to drive without actually buying one. And yea, I'm actually quite pissed about the value of the Volvos but anyways, my family have started to hate Volvos and the S60 will be the last one in my life. But a BMW doesn't hold value a lot better. I know that second-hand bimmers are sold at around 30k for a 2001+ 3 series. But in reality, it's similar because my roommate's 325xi was bought 38k brand new and was sold for 21k. Values of cars are always bad...unless you get a F. Enzo.

All sales people aren't like this, I have been selling BMWs for years...I discount cars all the time.

What do you mean, "like this?" In one of the threads above I mentioned that I discount cars on a regular basis too.

I'm not like most of the people in this car game out here. I genuinely know and like/love what I sell, and I'm not in this business to take advantage of any of my prospects or clients (not saying that you are, but I'm sure you've seen how some people are).

[QUOTE=snooker88

As for Snafu, well, good job. Hopefully your cars aren't bought below invoice or leased. If you bought it, then good for you. I just heard from a sales in a BMW dealership in Albany, NY that if you're a good sales, the dealership actually gives you a car to drive without actually buying one. And yea, I'm actually quite pissed about the value of the Volvos but anyways, my family have started to hate Volvos and the S60 will be the last one in my life. But a BMW doesn't hold value a lot better. I know that second-hand bimmers are sold at around 30k for a 2001+ 3 series. But in reality, it's similar because my roommate's 325xi was bought 38k brand new and was sold for 21k. Values of cars are always bad...unless you get a F. Enzo.[/QUOTE]
Snooker88,
I didn't mean to jack this thread, just needed to vent because I thought you came across harshly...hope you didn't take my earlier reply wrong. I am a consumer just like you, I bought my M3 from a private party. My X5 I leased at one thousand over invoice (yes, I have made better deals to customers but that is the employee "deal"). BMW's have roughly 7.8% mark-up between invoice and msrp which is much less than most manufacturers. Our profit margin is half of what some big names have. Manufacturers balloon margins and throw % rates and rebates at cars...wish they would all get off this and price them accordingly from the beginning. Oh, we don't get a car for a year. Bmw subsidizes a one year lease for us on a few models if we sell x amount of cars and have a good csi reports, we still have a monthly payment and have to insuren the car.
The car I chose is a Z4, but I don't consider it mine.

Okay, this is a hot topic, and one I have seen on other car forums whenever there is a new model coming out....example, the 2004 ACURA TL, and the RL.

I have a 2000 TL and was looking to trade for a 2004 TL.....forsure, every two days there was a new thread regarding which dealer in C.A has the lowest price.....yikes....over kill!!!! Why is it that people value a $500 savings over a local dealership and a good relationship with the service department????? It beats me!!!

Now the NEW 3 series is coming out and it is nice...very nice! If you want to be the first dude on the block, or be able to talk like your an 'owner' of a NEW 3 series....just pay the price and get what you want!!! The only reason to shop around would be for the exact options that you desire.

ANOTHER point I would like to make....(PS: I have a 98 540i6 35K miles.) The engineering and build quality is amazing in these cars....and frankly if BMW came out with a 3 series that was smaller and cheaper than the previous model - I WOULDNT BUY IT! I absolutely demand improvements in every area in a new model, and after I drive it, will decide whether to trade in the 00TL on a new 06 3series....and forsure I will NOT be nickle and diming the sales staff.....The one thing I will say to them, get me the color and options I want and BAAM I will pay MSRP!!!! :buttrock

Thats what has to be done to keep the BMW marque building leading edge automoblies. IMHO.

cheers all.......LC

PS: If people dont buy there new models....then they have issues! aka Bangle 7 series....and hence discounts could be had there.....

You're little theory has one big problem; you only cut into the dealer's profit margin by negotiating a lower price.

Vehicle manufacturers will continually work to lower costs, regardless of what the dealer sells the car for, because that is what companies need to do in order to be successful.

I guess your theory is why the E90 330i is better equipped, and $100 less, than the E46 version. :rolleyes

Exactly, the $$ comes out of the dealership's pockets, not the manufacturer...unless BMW does it differently than all of the other manufacturers I'm familiar with. The majority of the $$$ is made on the service side anyhow, the sales side (at most dealers) couldn't afford to keep the lights on. Not a slam against you salesmen, just what I've observed in the industry for the past 5+ years.

Also, as Roan pointed out the 330i has MORE std. equipment and is less expensive than the outgoing E46. This is not a new trend at all. For example, 40 years ago you could pick from literally dozens upon dozens of options for the Ford Mustang. Today, you can pick the trim level, transmission and stereo and that's about it. You can't even specify manual windows/locks anymore. Why? Because Ford figured out it was cheaper to offer those "premium items" as standard equipment rather than expend the time/resources necessitated by making them optional.

Nerf26 - I agree, a good relationship with your service department is key, no question about that. But the sales side should do everything in their power to get you the best deal. If I find a salesman lying to me regarding price/options/etc, do you think I want to give them my business and find out that their service dept. is the same way? :nono

I also have to laugh about paying MSRP. I have never (9+ and counting, domestic and foreign) and will never pay MSRP for a vehicle. As the acronym states, it's the SUGGESTED retail price. If you want to support someone else's family by overpaying, knock yourself out. Me? I'll take my business elsewhere, doesn't matter much to me. It's amazing too, two new Honda purchases, two different dealers (different states even) and BOTH were willing to meet my $100 over invoice price. Why? Because I told them flat out that they would get my service business. Of course, other than needing oilchanges they really had no service needs, but that's beside the point. :devillook

I tell the sales guy if i can't pay over MSRP forget it!!

I tell the sales guy if i can't pay over MSRP forget it!!

Can I interest you in a new car sir? :devillook

Can I interest you in a new car sir? :devillook

By all means here's a blank check!

:D

I also have to laugh about paying MSRP. I have never (9+ and counting, domestic and foreign) and will never pay MSRP for a vehicle. As the acronym states, it's the SUGGESTED retail price. If you want to support someone else's family by overpaying, knock yourself out. Me? I'll take my business elsewhere, doesn't matter much to me. It's amazing too, two new Honda purchases, two different dealers (different states even) and BOTH were willing to meet my $100 over invoice price. Why? Because I told them flat out that they would get my service business. Of course, other than needing oilchanges they really had no service needs, but that's beside the point. :devillook

You have some good points. However, you can no way compare a Honda purchase experience with BMW. Honda competes with all of the Toyotas, Nissans, Subarus, Mitsubishis etc. They have to be extremely competative to sell their very good commuter cars (try and get $100 over on an S2000 when it launched, not happening). They get truck loads of cars and are paid extra money by the manufacturer for meeting quotas, not to mention hold back money. They have to dump them like this to be competative. BMW has much less competition, and the the cars they sell are allocated. Their margins are lower than Honda, the service and maintenance is provided by BMW for 4 yrs. (average car ownership in the U.S. right now is 37 months). Getting a great deal is important to everyone, but in my experience the customers will pay extra for a car they want with the equipment they want. Professional, educated and successful car nuts are what BMW caters to...trust me, these custumers aren't stupid. They know getting 500-700 dollars off the new '06 3 series is a "deal".

Mdreamer, I don't understand your attitude.

All this is quite simple actually. If a customer walks in wanting a car, then nickles and dimes you on price you are not forced to sell the car to him. Unless I'm missing something, there is no gun held to your head.

If demand outstrips demand, wouldn't you, a representative of the dealer, simply state that to the customer and let the customer know that heavy discounts are not available on the particular model?

Somebody above mentioned the S2000. When I bought my S2000 in December of 99, I had to pay MSRP and didn't get a test drive, all due to market forces.

Mdreamer, I don't understand your attitude.

All this is quite simple actually. If a customer walks in wanting a car, then nickles and dimes you on price you are not forced to sell the car to him. Unless I'm missing something, there is no gun held to your head.

If demand outstrips demand, wouldn't you, a representative of the dealer, simply state that to the customer and let the customer know that heavy discounts are not available on the particular model?

Somebody above mentioned the S2000. When I bought my S2000 in December of 99, I had to pay MSRP and didn't get a test drive, all due to market forces.


YEP, market forces.....thats what I am talkin about, and we'll see about this new 3 series, demand IMHO will be high! Dealers are going to have a tuff time keeping one or two on the showroom floor, never mind test drives....

ITS ALL GOOD.....and if I can get an okay trade-in on my 00 TL, I should be driving an E90 by XMAS....HAAA (dreamer)....cheers all.

I was discussing this issue with a friend, and you just have to know what you want, what it's worth and how much you are *willing* to pay. As mentioned before, if you want the first one, you're going to have to pay to play.

However, if you make it worth the sales person's time (ie. offer a price that isn't ridiculously low) they will at least work with you. Consider this; I bought a first year WRX (2002 model in '01) and worked with the sales guy and ended up paying $300 over invoice for what was at the time a hot car. This said, I told the sales guy what I wanted and waited. It didn't take long, but still, you can't just demand a deal and have someone magically make it happen.

Last thing - be willing to walk if you aren't happy.

yea demand can be a problem most of the time for a 1st year car. But there are so many dealerships out there and so many ways to tackle a price problem. I know I am getting my e90 at a GREAT price

If you want a discount buy an e46 or wait until September when the coupe is on the verge of coming out.

Stop trying to cheapen the marque.

that is something a swindling, no class car salesman would say. Crap like this just pisses me off. I hate idiot car salesman who make stupid comments like this just so they can make extra commission.

I guess they are no longer happy with their $12 an hour salary. lol.

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How come I can't find your invoice pricing? Is it still posted or tell me what I am missing?

Thanks!

This thread is a good example of why I will only consider buying a used car, preferably 3-4 years old and after the steepest decline on the depreciation curve. Sure it requires more homework to ensure that the car was well taken care of an not abused, but ultimately I think it is well worth it. You can also save modestly on the corresponding insurance rates.

This also eliminates the need to deal with unscrupulous salesmen who ultimately do not have your (the consumer's) best interest in mind. Since most dealer systems reward front and back end profit on automobile sales, there is an inherent conflict of interests between the salesmen and the consumer. This is not to say that all salesmen are equally unethical, but I would say that this is the norm rather than the general rule.

My brother-in-law recently found another profession after years of selling Honda's in Pensacola, FL. He said he remembers countless times where a person or couple who were considering a vehicle began the negotiating process. They would come to a price point and ultimately many consumers would ask "is this the best you can do?" Now he had worked years with the finance people and knew that he had more flexibility. But he needs to pay the bills and the dealership rewards many finacial factors such as gross profit, interest rates from financial institutions (if the person requires financing), warranty, service, etc.

So given the realistic example above, there is no potential "win-win" outcome for both the salesmen and the consumer. One will end up compromising more that the other. Ultimately, the more educated the consumer, the better they can fend for themselves in the negotiation process (within market conditions, assuming that demand is not so much greater than supply that dealers would not be willing to negotiate).