I like the idea of the SMG, and especially the automatic feature for city traffic (I hate that sooooo much with my current stick). I also like how you can change through different modes. However, I'm not sure a manual would be as fun without the coordination required to drive 3-pedal and I do like the feeling of the clutch cornering and stuff like that. I am also concerened about the RPM restrictions on the SMG. What are some other pro's and con's and can you elaborate about what I've already mentioned?

what RPM restrictions... are you talking about LC?
The Auto mode is the worst reason to chose SMG, It is very poor shifting, and not at all worth the trouble to use.
Beside, how hard is it to pull the paddle in traffic?

Some people will say that it takes all the fun out of driving, others will say that it adds much more enjoyment.
you have to decide which type of personality you are.

SMG is no good for drag racing, but great for everything else. I'm really going to miss mine soon.. :(

I liked the SMG but decided to avoid it for the following reasons:

-Adds 250-300 extra lbs (can't remember the exact figure). I looked at a couple of the car mags and they showed that the manual had better track times (driver induced of course). The C class AMG mercedes had better times than the SMG.
-Can be jerky for a daily driver. I found that the SMG made me want to drive the car balls to the wall all the time, whereas the manual was fun to drive at any speed.
-At the time I was married and I didn't want to give my wife the option to drive the car being that it could be used in the automatic mode - shame on me.
-BMW, I think, makes by far the best manual transmission in the business - I haven't driven all of the manufactures on the market but of the ones I looked at, I belive the M3s is far superior (911, S4, vette).
-$2400 bucks is a bit steep - I invested the funds on Dinan upgrades.

Bottom line - it is your ride - don't let anyone make up your mind for you based on advice. The SMG is trick and if I could have two cars - I would have my frufru delux M3 with the stick and a stripped down no option SMG M3 to drive the fear of God in me.

Good luck in your choices - in either case you will love the car; just remember to keep the testosterone on the track, not the street.

Cheers,

rks

I am in the same boat, its been a while since I drove the SMG, need to drive both again before I make up my mind.

what RPM restrictions... are you talking about LC?
The Auto mode is the worst reason to chose SMG, It is very poor shifting, and not at all worth the trouble to use.
Beside, how hard is it to pull the paddle in traffic?

Some people will say that it takes all the fun out of driving, others will say that it adds much more enjoyment.
you have to decide which type of personality you are.

yea thats true...the gay thing about sticks is doing the clutch in traffic, so it wouldnt matter anyway. The RPM restrictions I was talking about was the burnouts and not revving past 1800.

But what about this automatic sucking? this is the first I've heard of that?

yea thats true...the gay thing about sticks is doing the clutch in traffic, so it wouldnt matter anyway. The RPM restrictions I was talking about was the burnouts and not revving past 1800.

But what about this automatic sucking? this is the first I've heard of that?

SMG is not an automatic transmission. You still have a clutch, but it is now electronically controlled by the car's computer following your input. The auto option does not suck, as it still allows for quick shifts...but you have to keep in mind that without the torque-converter in a regular automatic, it is not going to feel really smooth in auto mode.

-Adds 250-300 extra lbs (can't remember the exact figure).

You mean 25-30 pounds. Otherwise, an M3 Cab (and its 250 pounds of extra fat) with SMG would weigh over 500 pounds more than the coupe, which would put it in M5 territory, and that aint so.

Shaik and ATL04M3 --

You guys need to remember, that SMG is NOT steptronic or any variant of it. Thus, the way you drive SMG is very analogous to the way you drive manual. I have an SMG and a six-spd M3. Personally, I think ATL04M3 you have it backwards, SMG for daily commuting and six-spd for the track :stickoutt

Thus, to drive it smoothly, you need to do what you do in manual. Blip the throttle, let off the gas when shifting, etc. It takes about one month to really become smoother. I believe Bren says it takes about six months to become really good at it. If you are talking about full "A" mode -- then yes, it sucks. It jerks, etc. But, honestly, how many of SMG drivers put it in full A mode. Most are in S4 at minimum.

Second, SMG does not add 250-300 lbs. I believe it "might' be 15 lbs heavier than manual for the hydraulic thing; but, it does not add that much weight. Kevlar would know better than me about it. Car magazines are wrong. SMG should be faster around the track hands down. I think hans stuck took the SMG and there's a video of it floating around ... It's possible that SMG might be "slower" than a REALLY REALLY good six-spd driver. But, that is maybe like .01% of the population here.

I know I thought I was good at manual; but, there's no way I can perform perfect H&T shifts with a manual from 140+ down to 30 mph. I like manual on the track just b/c I want to practice. But, in autocross, track, etc ... SMG is superior and should result in faster times. A manual driver should be able to out-launch the SMG guy (b/c of the ability to gorilla launch and ride the clutch out).

For instance, I ran consistent 13.5's with SMG (old silver one). I did not use launch control. Just mashed pedal. I did 6 runs, all were 13.5 something something. With manual, I was ALL OVER the place. One run was like 13.8, another run was like 13.008 (gorilla launch of like 5600 rpm's), another run was like 13.7, etc ... no consistency at all.

p.s. -- no reason to run it in full A mode in traffic. You flick the paddle, how hard is that to upshift or downshift? Much better than depressing and holding the clutch in :)

You mean 25-30 pounds. Otherwise, an M3 Cab (and its 250 pounds of extra fat) with SMG would weigh over 500 pounds more than the coupe, which would put it in M5 territory, and that aint so.


I stand corrected...

Shaik and ATL04M3 --

You guys need to remember, that SMG is NOT steptronic or any variant of it. Thus, the way you drive SMG is very analogous to the way you drive manual. I have an SMG and a six-spd M3. Personally, I think ATL04M3 you have it backwards, SMG for daily commuting and six-spd for the track :stickoutt

Thus, to drive it smoothly, you need to do what you do in manual. Blip the throttle, let off the gas when shifting, etc. It takes about one month to really become smoother. I believe Bren says it takes about six months to become really good at it. If you are talking about full "A" mode -- then yes, it sucks. It jerks, etc. But, honestly, how many of SMG drivers put it in full A mode. Most are in S4 at minimum.

Second, SMG does not add 250-300 lbs. I believe it "might' be 15 lbs heavier than manual for the hydraulic thing; but, it does not add that much weight. Kevlar would know better than me about it. Car magazines are wrong. SMG should be faster around the track hands down. I think hans stuck took the SMG and there's a video of it floating around ... It's possible that SMG might be "slower" than a REALLY REALLY good six-spd driver. But, that is maybe like .01% of the population here.

I know I thought I was good at manual; but, there's no way I can perform perfect H&T shifts with a manual from 140+ down to 30 mph. I like manual on the track just b/c I want to practice. But, in autocross, track, etc ... SMG is superior and should result in faster times. A manual driver should be able to out-launch the SMG guy (b/c of the ability to gorilla launch and ride the clutch out).

For instance, I ran consistent 13.5's with SMG (old silver one). I did not use launch control. Just mashed pedal. I did 6 runs, all were 13.5 something something. With manual, I was ALL OVER the place. One run was like 13.8, another run was like 13.008 (gorilla launch of like 5600 rpm's), another run was like 13.7, etc ... no consistency at all.

p.s. -- no reason to run it in full A mode in traffic. You flick the paddle, how hard is that to upshift or downshift? Much better than depressing and holding the clutch in :)

Ease up alread - your WAY to defensive. I stand corrected on the wight and anyone that spends 65+ on an M3 knows that SMG is not an automatic. it's all about personal preferance. I liked the SMG, loved the stick. I am sure thier are plenty of others that feel the opposite.

peace out

Ease up alread - your WAY to defensive. I stand corrected on the wight and anyone that spends 65+ on an M3 knows that SMG is not an automatic. it's all about personal preferance. I liked the SMG, loved the stick. I am sure thier are plenty of others that feel the opposite.

peace out

hmmm ... where do you think I was defensive? I did put this icon :stickoutt ... I think you read too much into what I said :stickoutt ;) ... and why would I need to be defensive if I have both :)

-Adds 250-300 extra lbs (can't remember the exact figure). I looked at a couple of the car mags and they showed that the manual had better track times (driver induced of course). The C class AMG mercedes had better times than the SMG.

-BMW, I think, makes by far the best manual transmission in the business - I haven't driven all of the manufactures on the market but of the ones I looked at, I belive the M3s is far superior (911, S4, vette).


rks

300 pounds! NOT! I've read 14-18 Lbs. I've read comparisons that give the overall track edge to SMG, but drag times to the standard manual. As far as the standard tranny being the best in the biz... I guess you haven't driven an S2000. I went from an S2k to an M3 and ended up deciding on an SMG because campared to the S2k, the M3 standard transmission kinda sucked (I have not driven the M3's primary competition though).

It was actually a tough descission (I changed from SMG to 6MT and back again all after I placed the order). I'm glad I went with the SMG and didn't base my decision solely on a couple 5 min test drives (if I did, I'd probably have a standard), because it takes some practice to get smooth... with the right finess (throttle blips, timing, etc), the SMG is just plain awsome.

However, if you are concerned about the best straight line launches, you'd be better off with the 6MT (you might anyway... I don't think SMG is for everyone... to drive it the way I like actually takes more thought/work than it did in a manual)

Bottom line... test drive both transmissions, and try to do it several times (I wasn't impressed with the first smg I test drove, but was with the second... seemed like a totally different car). And use the search function on the forums (here, bimmerfest.com, m3forum.net)... there are a TON of opinions/questions/answers/info out there already. All the reading I've done says that 95% of those who went with SMG are glad they did so.

-David

yea thats true...the gay thing about sticks is doing the clutch in traffic, so it wouldnt matter anyway. The RPM restrictions I was talking about was the burnouts and not revving past 1800.

But what about this automatic sucking? this is the first I've heard of that?

I have no rpm restrictions on SMG. I can launch over 3000 rpm if I want to. :D See my thread about the Roush Mustang.

The A mode does indeed suck. I used to drive in A exclusively, but I became increasingly annoyed with the early 1-2 shift. Picture pulling out of a parking lot into heavy traffic, and even with a decent amount of throttle the thing goes into 2nd gear as soon as you get the car straight in the lane. Very scary when you have cars bearing down on you.
The best analogy I heard was that A mode was like having a drunken ghost driving your car.

Y'know, after reading this weekends usual debates on SMG vs. 6MT, and after seeing how well I did against that Roush last night, I started reconsidering my decision to get a 6MT on the M3 I have on order.

Then I thought about how I could have my current mods on that 6MT, and then really amazed the Mustang guys... :D

Really, if our current champion Lee can do a 12.49 (yes, on a track, I know...) with nothing more than software, pullies, SSR comps, and extreme talent, then my new 6MT with all that PLUS my euro headers and cats, K&N intake, AA exhaust and Eisenman s2, and maybe a 4.10 rear gear and UUC flywheel and clutch will hit the low 12's. If I learn how to drive all over again. :D

All that, and its my daily driver. Wait till I get nitrous on it. :buttrock

Btw, according to BMW, the SMG along with all hydrolic fluids adds a total of only 8 kg.

Before ordering my car I took an SMG out for an extended drive.
To be fair, I just took it out because I wanted to be sure that I did not want or like it, so I was somewhat biased.
Well, lo and behold, I was pleasantly surprised. I thought it was actually pretty fun. At the end of the day, however, I did not want to spend 55K
on something that I *thought* I would come to really like as an everyday thing. What if 6 months later I was sick of it?
Some people are willing to take that risk- I'm not. I know I won't be sick of driving stick. But make no mistake about it- SMG is fun and pretty amazing.
And from what I've heard, people actually end up liking it even more.
Alas, at this point in my life, I've learned that percentages never apply to me and I'm always in the minority... :stickoutt

I know I love stick and have no problem getting stuck in traffic with it. As a matter of fact I enjoy shifting in any given situation.
There's just something magical about BMW transmissions. They're just so soft and buttery smooth that, for me,
that further enhances the driving experience. The clutch was a piece of cake compared to my E36 M3 too.

SMG looks great for races from a roll on the freeway- just click and downshift and in less than a second you're in your sweet spot
and you can just take off like a bat out of hell. It's also great when downshifting and coming into slow corners at high speed.
Just click down, the car blips the throttle for you and presto.
Since I don't intend to do either on a regular basis in my mostly city driving, I can skip this.

One thing I definitely did not like was the gear engagement.
When shifting at the highest speed setting (S6? I forget the nomenclature...) at 8K RPM's the gear engagement was not smooth at all-
the car jerked and felt like it was going to come apart. I prefer the smoothness of the manual, albeit the shifts are slower.

Bottom line- I did not want to spend a bucket load of money on a car
that I was not 100% confident I would come to fully love...

I've had my E46 SMG for about a year now. Previously all I ever owned were sticks. It did take a couple of weeks to get used to it. Shifting was very awkward and abrupt initially, but now it's a great car and great transmission. Here's the pros and cons I see;

Pro:
-Easier resale
-Great if my wife wants to drive it (she used to melt the clutch in my 325)
-Great for traffic
-Great if I want to multitask while driving (phone, eat, etc.). I know it's bad but we all do it.
-The 1800RPM and 3000RPM launch modes (undocumented) are great for racing.
-There are more buttons to press!
-Likely will extend your clutch life (no slip-clutch launching)

Con:
-Less control over launching (no slip-clutch launching & you can't control launch RPM)
-Less control over aggressive down-shifts. I can't pop the clutch at a high RPM in second to induce a slide while turning (whether that is smart to do or not ).
-It's still more fun to shift through the gears

I mostly use S5 & S6. Occasionally I throw it into A4 in traffic. Remember it is not a real auto (there is no torque converter) so the shifts are still jolting. Unless this car is going to be heavily used at the track then the SMG is usually a better choice for most drivers. IMHO.

A good summary of the benefits and disadvantages. I will especially agree on the resale value. Here in Florida, SMG is a $2400 option that will easily bump you $4000 over the value of a used 6MT car, all other things being equal. Expensive things like NAV and power seats, by comparison, have a negligible effect on resale, if any.

thanks for the help guys. can people describe in better detail than i know the different modes, i.e. a1-a4 and s1-s6? I know they control the speed and smoothness of the shift and in automatic mode at what rpm the shift takes place, and at least according to BMW, you can just put the pedal to the floor and shift with the paddles and not have any problems. what is really the case?

thanks.

www.m3smg.com
that will tell you most everything you need to know.