well i was on the 710 north last night, around 1:30...anyways i see a blue sti with an aftermarket exhaust.... im going about 85ish and slip into 4th....and i honk at him...he immediately guns it...and i have a the disadvantage already....anyways we are going and he pulls and pulls a good amount...but the moment i put into 5th around 120is..? i started pulling slolwy and steadily till 137...the final outcome i won by 1.5 carlengths... I was kinda suprised...im kinda thinking he let off...but regardless im not going that fast again , kind of stupid on my part

I dunno, i could see that happening. They trap what 13.3 at 102 or 3? Just goes to show most of their speed is bottom end which is what they were made for. Good race!!

those cars are crap at high speeds. I've raced one in my 928 before at lower speeds and it was able to keep up pretty well.

Yeah thats kinda what i thought, great down low but they dont have much up top. I need to find one and race it from a hundred.

Makes sense to me, I've been in an STI, and that thing go's through the first 4 gears reallllly fast, but 4th ends at like ~105 ish and its done....

Nice kill!

Show's all over end of 4th in those cars... anything below 100 and they're pretty quick. I've killed some rex's on the freeway in my measly 325. :buttrock

if u can stay close under 100, a well modded m3 can hang or win above that.

yeah STi's and Evos, if you can get them to race on the highway you have a real good advantage. If it is from a dig, or maybe 2nd gear, they will get ya.

One jumped on me yesterday when I wasn't looking in my b6 S4... same story, no top end power. He must have known that also because he got out of it around 90.

Some of you guys seem to get WRX's and STi's confused (redv)

I wonder how a mildly modified STi would handle a well modified E36 on a track

beleive me man STI....big ass wing...and it pulled pretty hard in the beggining

STi's are fast from a dig due to all wheel drive. But then they are slower at higher speed because of all wheel drive. Those cars are made for rallying.

One jumped on me yesterday when I wasn't looking in my b6 S4... same story, no top end power. He must have known that also because he got out of it around 90.
Oh you bet he did, anyone whos got a Subaru knows that, feels like your pulling a trailer. :)

I wonder how a mildly modified STi would handle a well modified E36 on a track

From what I've seen and read, the STI understeers quite heavily, to the point where it almost ruins a lot of the fun. Find Top Gear's review of the STI vs Evo and watch the STI go around the track, it understeers like its front wheel drive and I beleive was around 2 seconds slower around the track, despite a ~20 hp, ~20 lb-ft advantage over the Evo (they weigh exactly the same)

Good kill! :buttrock

I raced an STi once at speed around 120+ and it looks like he was standing still when I passed him.

From what I've seen and read, the STI understeers quite heavily, to the point where it almost ruins a lot of the fun. Find Top Gear's review of the STI vs Evo and watch the STI go around the track, it understeers like its front wheel drive and I beleive was around 2 seconds slower around the track, despite a ~20 hp, ~20 lb-ft advantage over the Evo (they weigh exactly the same)
Yeah thats a big thing I hate about them, they understeer like mad, mines a bit lighter with thicker sway bars so I get a good amount of oversteer. Subarus are pretty heavy up front. :mad

Some of you guys seem to get WRX's and STi's confused (redv)

I wonder how a mildly modified STi would handle a well modified E36 on a track

The STI and evo both are very quick cars around a track. I suppose modified is a relative term, so I dont know how they'll size up. But, I do know that they are fast and easy to drive in the track environment. AWD, lots of power, excellent brakes, and they are light. Drivers constant, I say the evo or sti wins.

From what I've seen and read, the STI understeers quite heavily, to the point where it almost ruins a lot of the fun. Find Top Gear's review of the STI vs Evo and watch the STI go around the track, it understeers like its front wheel drive and I beleive was around 2 seconds slower around the track, despite a ~20 hp, ~20 lb-ft advantage over the Evo (they weigh exactly the same)

most of the ones i see at autoX do awesome and have excellent balance. espically in the tight stuff. im very impressed with sti's as a track car.

STi's are fast from a dig due to all wheel drive. But then they are slower at higher speed because of all wheel drive. Those cars are made for rallying.The main thing holdng the car back is the small turbo.Change the turbo(t3/t4 or t4) and keep the same amount of boost and you have an entirely different animal especially on the topend against any NA or supecharged E36!!Big turbocharged E36 on the topend would be a different story.Victory would go to the turbocharged E36 in that case.

The main thing holdng the car back is the small turbo.Change the turbo(t3/t4 or t4) and keep the same amount of boost and you have an entirely different animal especially on the topend against any NA or supecharged E36!!Big turbocharged E36 on the topend would be a different story.Victory would go to the turbocharged E36 in that case.

On the same account - chip and exhaust an evo and you've got 300whp. Yeah, I hate the rice too...but those cars are purpose built as a drivers car.

this sti didnt happen to have gold bbs rims did it? did u spot an a-spec sticker on the back 3/4 window? if it did then that was probably my friend. in that case i gotta call him and make fun of him.

On the same account - chip and exhaust an evo and you've got 300whp. Yeah, I hate the rice too...but those cars are purpose built as a drivers car.

There's nothing rice about a well-modded EVO or STi. :nono

From what I've seen and read, the STI understeers quite heavily, to the point where it almost ruins a lot of the fun. Find Top Gear's review of the STI vs Evo and watch the STI go around the track, it understeers like its front wheel drive and I beleive was around 2 seconds slower around the track, despite a ~20 hp, ~20 lb-ft advantage over the Evo (they weigh exactly the same)
the stock alignment is alot to blame with that. If you take a bone stock STi and get a good alignment, it handles great.

This last year a bone stock STi, with a better alignment, took FTD at a SCCA auto event. It was pretty impressive. I have raced (being the driver) many times and it handles well. It has about the same tendancy to oversteer than understeer.

The Evo is great right out of the chute. I got my butt handed to me on mid-ohio by a Evo (he was also a more experienced driver).

There's nothing rice about a well-modded EVO or STi. :nono

No kidding...I've been spanked by a few :(

Good kill. Bimmers really shine on the topend. And that makes perfect sense if you're building a car for the autobahn. The STi and Evo are 0-100mph cars...and personally 100mph is fast enough for me. :stickoutt

http://home.comcast.net/~blackhandclan/evo_front.jpg

WRX Sti's are yummy! Good kill.

On the same account - chip and exhaust an evo and you've got 300whp. Yeah, I hate the rice too...but those cars are purpose built as a drivers car.Evo's don't use chip's..Either piggy back's or standalones.Just like the car in my sig on the left. ;).By the way there's nothing rice about an EVO! 95 Eagle Talon 413 AWHP.Is that rice? :cool

Evo's don't use chip's..Either piggy back's or standalones.Just like the car in my sig on the left. ;).By the way ,I never said I hate rice! :D That would be hypocritical of me.95 Eagle Talon 413 AWHP.

I don't think that JUST a flash and turbo-back exhaust would be good for 300awhp. I think you'll need cams and some sort of boost control too.

I don't think that JUST a flash and turbo-back exhaust would be good for 300awhp. I think you'll need cams and some sort of boost control too.yep more boost and fuel to boot or a bigger turbo...300 +whp without cams.

WRX Sti's are yummy! Good kill.Nice list of cars you have there!Past and present... ;)

it could of been the same guy....i beleive i saw gold rims.... ask him if it was him..? :redspot

With a full exhaust, boost controller, intake, and a reflash there is no reason to see 300 awhp on a EVO. Get cams and another tune, your looking at about 320-330 awhp.

Before my cams and tune, I raced a E36 M3 and it had no chance on the highway. The AWD doesn't kill either car as bad as you guys would like to think. The main thing is the boost taper at 5000 rpm from 19.5 psi to 16 psi. Just a reflash and a boost controller makes it a totally different car.

Bucshur is making every bit of 360+ awhp with his 04' RS on 94 oct. There is really no need to upgrade the turbo unless your looking for HUGE power. I'll keep my stocker. I like being able to hit full boost in any gear.

they need nos to catch my lamborghini doors

With a full exhaust, boost controller, intake, and a reflash there is no reason to see 300 awhp on a EVO. Get cams and another tune, your looking at about 320-330 awhp.

Before my cams and tune, I raced a E36 M3 and it had no chance on the highway. The AWD doesn't kill either car as bad as you guys would like to think. The main thing is the boost taper at 5000 rpm from 19.5 psi to 16 psi. Just a reflash and a boost controller makes it a totally different car.

Bucshur is making every bit of 360+ awhp with his 04' RS on 94 oct. There is really no need to upgrade the turbo unless your looking for HUGE power. I'll keep my stocker. I like being able to hit full boost in any gear.Yep,you can get 300+ hp with the stck turbo and without the cams as well.My friends car put out 270hp to the wheels(340-350 at the crank) with his car.Stck cams , boost controller, Apexi AFC,full exhaust and 19 lbs of boost.

Before my cams and tune, I raced a E36 M3 and it had no chance on the highway. The AWD doesn't kill either car as bad as you guys would like to think. The main thing is the boost taper at 5000 rpm from 19.5 psi to 16 psi. Just a reflash and a boost controller makes it a totally different car.

The AWD does put a hurting on them. When I raced an Evo MR(??) I think we went from 35mph 2nd gear roll. When we initially hit the gas, he pulled 1 to 1 1/2 cars by the top of 2nd. When I went to third he messed up and grinded his gear, giving me a chance to catch up. Once he was going in third, we were even and matched. When I hit 4th, I started slowly pulling on him. Right before we let out of the gas, my rear bumper was about even with his front fender/bumper. I know that didn't kill his chances a ton, but also my car has no performance mods and just huge heavy rims. If it were against soembody on stock contours, they probably would've did a bit better. The AWD does hinder the vehicles capabilities up top.

With a full exhaust, boost controller, intake, and a reflash there is no reason to see 300 awhp on a EVO. Get cams and another tune, your looking at about 320-330 awhp.

Before my cams and tune, I raced a E36 M3 and it had no chance on the highway. The AWD doesn't kill either car as bad as you guys would like to think. The main thing is the boost taper at 5000 rpm from 19.5 psi to 16 psi. Just a reflash and a boost controller makes it a totally different car.

Bucshur is making every bit of 360+ awhp with his 04' RS on 94 oct. There is really no need to upgrade the turbo unless your looking for HUGE power. I'll keep my stocker. I like being able to hit full boost in any gear.

Yes!!

I've been following Buschur Racing's developments and plan on following their mod path in the Spring.

This car (Evo) is extremely easy to mod versus my M3. For a few thousand dollars you will/can hang with just about anything out on the road/track etc...

The AWD is just fantastic! The car is a beast in the twisties!

Evos are very susceptable to mods. Stock my and my friend were pretty close from highway roll...... but

+HKS 264 cams
+Injen Intake and upper intercooler hoses
+Buscher Exhaust w/ thermostat housing
+manual boost controller to 21psi
+Dynoflash

=330 awhp (total cost under $2500)

My buddy's Evo owns my roadster.

I've been told that by a few people that an aftermarket intake is a waste on the Evo. I think for my money I'll eventually take my '05 Evo up to WORKS in San Francisco for a full TB exhaust and ECU flash. I would think that should be good for at least 35whp-40whp.

I've been told that by a few people that an aftermarket intake is a waste on the Evo. I think for my money I'll eventually take my '05 Evo up to WORKS in San Francisco for a full TB exhaust and ECU flash. I would think that should be good for at least 35whp-40whp.I beg to differ with you because most folks who own DSM'S and EVO's use aftermarket intakes,and it does help alot with the turbo spooling up much faster.

I'm guessing the cars (including the Neon SRT-4s and VW 1.8ts etc) use small turbos that give good power in the low end -- but in the top end they begin losing efficiency correct?

I'm guessing the cars (including the Neon SRT-4s and VW 1.8ts etc) use small turbos that give good power in the low end -- but in the top end they begin losing efficiency correct?
they use smaller turbos that have a lower inertia. The lower inertia allows the turbo to spool at a low rpm with a low displacement. Turbo efficiency is rated at a particular boost level and is partially a function of size, but there are other factors too. You can put a bigger turbo on a car and it would just not come on until later, but will be able to support more boost.

Its all a balance that you have to take into account to achieve your goals for any given car.

I'm guessing the cars (including the Neon SRT-4s and VW 1.8ts etc) use small turbos that give good power in the low end -- but in the top end they begin losing efficiency correct?Yes ,and it can depend on other things concerning the turbo as well.


they use smaller turbos that have a lower inertia. The lower inertia allows the turbo to spool at a low rpm with a low displacement. Turbo efficiency is rated at a particular boost level and is partially a function of size, but there are other factors too. You can put a bigger turbo on a car and it would just not come on until later, but will be able to support more boost.

Its all a balance that you have to take into account to achieve your goals for any given car.There you go. I could'nt have said it any better. ;)

Turn up the boost and suddenly the top end is opened up.

Turn up the boost and suddenly the top end is opened up.true,but too much boost in a small turbo can definitely effect it's efficiency.

True -- but the Evo's are running 19.5psi of boost on those little turbos, which means they most probably lose efficiency in the higher revs

WRX Sti's are yummy! Good kill.

I agree. I've sampled a few, very tasty. BTW, I agree, they do fall off bad on the big end. Right about where my car starts really pulling they stop, makes for interesting race. STi stay's in the ballpark up to ~90, then all of a sudden we're not even in the same zip code by the time I hit 120. :D

True -- but the Evo's are running 19.5psi of boost on those little turbos, which means they most probably lose efficiency in the higher revsWell the big 16 Mitsu turbo on the EVO can propell the Evo to high 11's with the right mods. With the stck boost solenoid on the car at wide open throttle in the later rpm's the boost tapers off from 19lbs to I think 16lbs to protect the motor.(aka warranty)After market boost controller with that same turbo(Big 16) turns the EVO into a WILD ANIMAL down low and TOPEND! :evil2. I've seen 341 hp at the wheels with the same stck turbo and mods.

I'm guessing the cars (including the Neon SRT-4s and VW 1.8ts etc) use small turbos that give good power in the low end -- but in the top end they begin losing efficiency correct?

Correct. Here is my dyno using a k04-15 on my 1.8t. The k04 is only slightly larger then the stock turbo (k03). The particular tuning I was running at the time ran 28psi and loads of timing (pump fuel).

http://plaza.ufl.edu/paradigm/untitled.bmp

As you can see, there is tons of low end torque. As the RPMS climb, the torque drops off significantly. This makes for an AWESOME car to drive around town, but not that fast of a drag racer (like any A4 is). I'd shift by 5500 in every gear but first.

I've been told that by a few people that an aftermarket intake is a waste on the Evo. I think for my money I'll eventually take my '05 Evo up to WORKS in San Francisco for a full TB exhaust and ECU flash. I would think that should be good for at least 35whp-40whp.

I've heard/read about this too.

With the research I've done - it seems to me - some aftermarket intakes cause idling problems. Apparently - the stock ECU can't deal with the increased turbulent air flow.

Now - how much of this is truth - I don't know.

I have read where certain tuners don't even change the intake when doing simple bolt on mods.

Take this with a grain of salt.

My first mod will probably be a turbo back exhaust. 20 ~ 30 hp increase...

True -- but the Evo's are running 19.5psi of boost on those little turbos, which means they most probably lose efficiency in the higher revs
size is a factor, but there are other factors that determine the peak effiency. I won't speak specifics of the Evo turbo because I don't know them,. One way you can increase the psressure level where peak efficiency is achieved is by changing the impeller blade design. Guys run mid-20s psi on the stock turbo. The subaru WRX (not STi) has a peak efficiency at 12 psi, but runs a little higher than that stock. Guys run those up to around 17psi with no issues in stock form.

Good race man, not sure if he backed off or not, but the Sti is no joke, I heard those things can pull at just about any speed.

Good race man, not sure if he backed off or not, but the Sti is no joke, I heard those things can pull at just about any speed.
yes, yes they can, until they hit about 90 or so.

yes, yes they can, until they hit about 90 or so.
they still pull well above that, its just it loses some of the dominance it enjoys down low.

With M50 manifold, cams, exhaust, intake, pulleys, FDK, I can match at a roll then after about 90 I start to get the edge, but its not drastic.

they still pull well above that, its just it loses some of the dominance it enjoys down low.

With M50 manifold, cams, exhaust, intake, pulleys, FDK, I can match at a roll then after about 90 I start to get the edge, but its not drastic.
which pulls higher up top...stock for stock....evo or sti? Because 3rd I am matching a Evo and 4th i am slowly gaining. I don't know if the evo I raced was stock, but I know I am. When I raced, only thing I had done to my car was brake pads, I didn't even have my SSK in. (I know I still don't have much, but I was bone stock except the heavy rims)

size is a factor, but there are other factors that determine the peak effiency. I won't speak specifics of the Evo turbo because I don't know them,. One way you can increase the psressure level where peak efficiency is achieved is by changing the impeller blade design. Guys run mid-20s psi on the stock turbo. The subaru WRX (not STi) has a peak efficiency at 12 psi, but runs a little higher than that stock. Guys run those up to around 17psi with no issues in stock form. You're right on the money again! The impeller blade design can be a big factor when it comes to turbo efficiency.


I've heard/read about this too.

With the research I've done - it seems to me - some aftermarket intakes cause idling problems. Apparently - the stock ECU can't deal with the increased turbulent air flow.

Now - how much of this is truth - I don't know.

I have read where certain tuners don't even change the intake when doing simple bolt on mods.

Take this with a grain of salt.

My first mod will probably be a turbo back exhaust. 20 ~ 30 hp increase...
I have'nt heard of any issues with DSM's or EVO's having problems with the K&N filters or any filters while eliminating the airbox..Alot of times guys leave the blow off valves open to the atmosphere while using the stck air mass and don't reroute the the air back into the intake which can cause air/fuel metering issues. This can affect the idle and cause the Mitsu's to stall.The blow off valve should only be left open if you are using speed density otherwise one would definitely experience the problems you mentioned.So I personally don't believe it's just the intake that causes the problem.I've never experienced any turbulence or idling problems with the BOV routed back into the intake. I don't have to worry about that now because the AEM computer allows me to use speed density.

I've heard/read about this too.

With the research I've done - it seems to me - some aftermarket intakes cause idling problems. Apparently - the stock ECU can't deal with the increased turbulent air flow.

Now - how much of this is truth - I don't know.

I have read where certain tuners don't even change the intake when doing simple bolt on mods.

Take this with a grain of salt.

My first mod will probably be a turbo back exhaust. 20 ~ 30 hp increase...

I don't know for sure what the story is with the intake but there's plenty of 12 and 11 second Evos on the stock airbox/intake so it's good enough for me. ;)

You're right on the money again! The impeller blade design can be a big factor when it comes to turbo efficiency.


I have'nt heard of any issues with DSM's or EVO's having problems with the K&N filters or any filters while eliminating the airbox..Alot of times guys leave the blow off valves open to the atmosphere while using the stck air mass and don't reroute the the air back into the intake which can cause air/fuel metering issues. This can affect the idle and cause the Mitsu's to stall.The blow off valve should only be left open if you are using speed density otherwise one would definitely experience the problems you mentioned.So I personally don't believe it's just the intake that causes the problem.I've never experienced any turbulence or idling problems with the BOV routed back into the intake. I don't have to worry about that now because the AEM computer allows me to use speed density.
yeah, from what I understand from the DSM world, its just not worth messing with the BOV because the sctock one on the 2nd gen talon is the best one out there. Alot of guys seem to be fitting the 2nd gen valve to other gens for higher boost applications.


oh and as for which pulls harder up top, a STi or Evo. Its pretty close. The Evo has better aerodynamics, but the STi does a little better with its bigger displacement up top. I have run up top with a STi and an Evo at the same time and we were all just kinda hanging around each other and no one could really get away.

I don't know for sure what the story is with the intake but there's plenty of 12 and 11 second Evos on the stock airbox/intake so it's good enough for me. ;)I don't know about that!



yeah, from what I understand from the DSM world, its just not worth messing with the BOV because the sctock one on the 2nd gen talon is the best one out there. Alot of guys seem to be fitting the 2nd gen valve to other gens for higher boost applications.


oh and as for which pulls harder up top, a STi or Evo. Its pretty close. The Evo has better aerodynamics, but the STi does a little better with its bigger displacement up top. I have run up top with a STi and an Evo at the same time and we were all just kinda hanging around each other and no one could really get away.The stock BOV on the 1st gen Talon is the one to use actually.The 2nd gen one is limited to 18lbs of boost and that's it.So if an aftermarket BOV is not being used a 1st gen one is being used and crushed to permit boost as high as 24-26lbs of boost.

yes, yes they can, until they hit about 90 or so.

You really feel a decrease in pulling power around 100-105mph, right after the shift into 5th. The gear ratio jump between 4th and 5th in our 6spd is massive. It goes from 1.346 to 0.971. Granted, 5th still pulls reasonably well thanks to 300hp but our relatively small turbo and gearing puts us at a disadvantage.

Most people also agree that due to the STi's turbo and stock tuning, it is usually better to shift about 500rpm before redline. While a TBE and ECU reflash won't make the turbo work much better up top, it does improve the low-mid range dramatically. Most people are claiming 105-109mph traps with TBE+ECU.

Still, I don't know about you guys but I really don't want to start races from 90-100mph. :D

Still, I don't know about you guys but I really don't want to start races from 90-100mph. :D
That's the best way man. Well that is good. the best way is this:

First you start with a night of drinking, you get good and drunk :beer, and then go driving and have like a quart (or any open drink in the car will do) in your lap and then go down the interstate, and get up next to a car at about 90, yall flip off the lights, and punch it, when you hit about 130, you let go of the wheel! Whooo that will freak you out man! :wow:

I haven't really been able to find a place to open her up, but I have been able to let her rip, from a dig, to 100 mph - several times...

I don't launch too aggressively - not like these kids - dropping the clutch at 7000rpm! My car actually has a rev limiter when the clutch is engaged - limiting revs to 5000rpm. Saves the clutch... lol...

But - when I do launch - it's pretty damn cool. This car just takes off!

The boost does taper off near red-line - I do feel a little drop-off, but it's more than enough to propel this car to ludicrous speeds!

I plan on getting a Utec in the future - which has a built in boost controller - so I should be able to control that.

I've seen dyno sheets with guys putting down 300awhp & 300awtrq with some simple bolt-ons and some good tuning.

Can't wait to mess with that!

That's the best way man. Well that is good. the best way is this:

First you start with a night of drinking, you get good and drunk :beer, and then go driving and have like a quart (or any open drink in the car will do) in your lap and then go down the interstate, and get up next to a car at about 90, yall flip off the lights, and punch it, when you hit about 130, you let go of the wheel! Whooo that will freak you out man! :wow:

You seen Don't Be A Menace.... lately? You're supposed to use a 40oz.

Can't believe this thread is still going. :eek:

You seen Don't Be A Menace.... lately? You're supposed to use a 40oz.

Can't believe this thread is still going. :eek:
lol I was wondering who would pick up my very loosely quoted line. I haven't seen it in awhile but I do remember that part. I know you are supposed to use 40's, but someplaces don't have those. Like florida only has quarts, but no 40s. But it was hard trying to figure out where to put the flip your lights off and let go off the wheel part. :)

lol I was wondering who would pick up my very loosely quoted line. I haven't seen it in awhile but I do remember that part. I know you are supposed to use 40's, but someplaces don't have those. Like florida only has quarts, but no 40s. But it was hard trying to figure out where to put the flip your lights off and let go off the wheel part. :)

Don't worry about the 40's, you aren't missing out on much. I'd rather just get a six pack. :drink1

Don't worry about the 40's, you aren't missing out on much. I'd rather just get a six pack. :drink1

When you dont have them, you want 'em bad. My friends and I have taken several trips up to Georga to purchase some.

When you dont have them, you want 'em bad. My friends and I have taken several trips up to Georga to purchase some.
What??? I never wanted them that bad. Hell I've only drank quarts occassionally. I normally just buy a 12 pack or a bottle of liqour and mixers. :)

what is so special about the 40s?

Back on topic, please... :D

The stock BOV on the 1st gen Talon is the one to use actually.The 2nd gen one is limited to 18lbs of boost and that's it.So if an aftermarket BOV is not being used a 1st gen one is being used and crushed to permit boost as high as 24-26lbs of boost.
ahh ok, i knew it was one of the OEM valves and I remember my buddy saying something about "crushing" it to be used for higher boost levels.

Kapolani - just make sure you have a excellent tuner with a great reputation. That can't be stressed enough, a buddy of mine had his motot blown on his WRX from bad tuning. I know of a GREAT option in the northern atlanta area if you are looking for a good tuner.

Kapolani - just make sure you have a excellent tuner with a great reputation. That can't be stressed enough, a buddy of mine had his motot blown on his WRX from bad tuning. I know of a GREAT option in the northern atlanta area if you are looking for a good tuner.

I agree. Absolutely...

Tuning is the key.

Since I've gone FI I've done a lot of research etc.. There's a lot of viable options out there, but the one that intrigues me the most is the Utec by TurboXS. I've been following a tuner's discussion board and have found a lot of good info on this system. I like the idea of being able to tune your car on your own. OTOH - you can get into a lot of trouble if you don't know what you're doing.

That's where I'm at now - trying to find a 'shop' or 'tuner' that's a proven and trusted source - willing to work with me and 'teach' me what he/she is doing...

You can get some impressive numbers with the 4G63 - I didn't know it was such a great platform to start from.

I agree. Absolutely... Tuning is the key.

That's where I'm at now - trying to find a 'shop' or 'tuner' that's a proven and trusted source - willing to work with me and 'teach' me what he/she is doing...



It may be a little hike for you, but there is a great shop in NJ to take your Evo to. They're called Turbo Trix and they have already built a 9 second Evo. One of my buddies takes his '99 Eclipse GSX there, and they have him just above 400awhp now on an AEM EMS.

That's where I'm at now - trying to find a 'shop' or 'tuner' that's a proven and trusted source - willing to work with me and 'teach' me what he/she is doing...

Knowledge Performance in Atlanta is a great option. They are VERY experienced in UTEC and are well recognized by TurboXS. They are on the board here and they are the ones that are the tuner for ShawnsM's roadster. I have been there before to get some work done, and was very impressed.

I agree. Absolutely...

Tuning is the key.

Since I've gone FI I've done a lot of research etc.. There's a lot of viable options out there, but the one that intrigues me the most is the Utec by TurboXS. I've been following a tuner's discussion board and have found a lot of good info on this system. I like the idea of being able to tune your car on your own. OTOH - you can get into a lot of trouble if you don't know what you're doing.

That's where I'm at now - trying to find a 'shop' or 'tuner' that's a proven and trusted source - willing to work with me and 'teach' me what he/she is doing...

You can get some impressive numbers with the 4G63 - I didn't know it was such a great platform to start from.Jeff Hill at Turbo trix uses AEM and I use it as well. Other than Vishnu's stuff I highy recommend a AEM system for the EVO over Utec.I'd say AEM destroy's them all.Haltech s pretty good as well.LEAVE UTEC ALONE.I mostly see that system on the Subies.By the way you also have Sean Glazer of www.extrememotorsports.com down there in Maryland who is an excellent tuner as well.He has a 9 sec DSM.

Jeff Hill at Turbo trix uses AEM and I use it as well. Other than Vishnu's stuff I highy recommend a AEM system for the EVO over Utec.I'd say AEM destroy's them all.Haltech s pretty good as well.LEAVE UTEC ALONE.I mostly see that system on the Subies.By the way you also have Sean Glazer of www.extrememotorsports.com down there in Maryland who is an excellent tuner as well.He has a 9 sec DSM.
Yes I would venture to say that UTEC is a waste of cash. AEM's EMS is one of the best aftermarket ECU's for the money. You've got the capability right out of the box to do so many things that it doesn't make since to even look at a UTEC. I've just placed an order for an AEM EMS for my car with the UEGO option so I'll have the ability to tune my AFR right there in the car.

With The STi I had (before it got stolen) I topped @ 165mph. Not many cars kept up with me right up to there... (including E46 M3`s, C5 corvette, and others)
The car only had
- Turbo-back exhaust
- 850cc injectors
- Walbro fuel pump
- Intake
- Ecutek
- other stuff that had nothing to do with top speed...

But I still prefer any M3 anyday! :redspot

I agree, the STi and Evo dont have as much top end as an M3, but it has a lot to do with their gearing, but they are not slow cars at the top end either.

The M3 has good top end, but I dont care what anyone says. A properly sized turbo with the right supporting mods will FLY in the topend. I think a stock E36 M3 would be a close race even in the top end with a stock Sti or Evo, but once the two turbo cars are modded, my money goes on them.

I have raced my friends STi in my E46 M3 many times, and I would pull away, but not too hard. I would put maybe about 3-4 cars on him well past 100 mph though. His car was stock and I had an exhaust. A stock E36 M3 has no chance against my M3, so it would be a close race against the STi or Evo.

A buddy of mine has an Evo with cams, fuel system, intake, AFC, full exhaust, bigger FMIC, stock turbo, and 110 race gas. I've raced him several times in my Supra, and that Evo is seriously no joke. He keeps up with me pretty well until about 90-100 mph then its a completely different story :D, and I know for a fact the most heavily modified N/A M3 will not even come close. You will need AT LEAST FI M3 to play. A modded Evo has some serious kick to it even in the top end cause almost nothing comes close to my Supra at rolling speeds, but my buddy does well, although I didnt have the boost all the way up. :lol

I'd still take an M3 over an STi or Evo though.

First off,I think the guy should get rid of the AFC and consider using an AEM EMS.With just the AFC he has no ability to control timing,which I'm sure you would agree would make a difference.However I have to agree that when it comes to topend power the Supra is the King of the road.That's why we use the FWD DSM's to race them with the edge still going to the Supra because it's wider and longer and does have 6 cylinders.But don't sleep on a 700+ hp fwd DSM.They are even twice as fast as an EVo when it comes to topend and will surely give the Supra a run for the money. :devillook :nono I'd feel safer in the Supra with my life on the line at those kind of triple digit speeds though. :D

Yeah, I mean I dont mind the AFCs at all, but definately a standalone would give you a lot more control over everything instead of just providing a band-aid like an AFC. I havent talked to my buddy in awhile, but knowing him I am sure he already has an AEM EMS in it now, and a whole slew of new mods!

Oh, yeah I know a lot of DSM owners and their cars are nasty! Back in the day, DSMs werent thought to be much of a challenge, and I was more use to that, but now they are really coming out strong. People who are true DSM fanatics dont spend a dime on their exterior, but have it put all in their performance, whether it be chrome/polished pipes, or straight zip-tying everything together! They know how to do that shit well too.

If I were to fear racing one car, it would most likely be a DSM. I would rather race american muscle actually, than a DMS, haha. Racing a well modded AWD DSM from a dig, especially a 6spd Supra, is a disaster for the most part. Its then all just about driver and a lot of catching up to do! If I'm not on a tire or slick then forget it. I wont even bother racing one from a stop. I have seen many DSMs tear new assholes in A LOT of cars. It just leaves people who dont know anything wonder how a little POS looking car can do that.

If it was a higher speed race between a Supra and DSM, or any car for that matter, my money would still have to go on the Supra, if I had to choose that is. I know these FWD DSMs can have sick HP and killer top end, but a Supra definately has better aerodynamics, and the advantage of having a bigger displacement too, but if you ever sit in a properly set up single turbo supra running on some nasty boost on the highway, you will know exactly what I am talking about. I am sure a high HP DSM would definately give a good race, and perhaps win, but my first bet would still be on the Supra.

That's why we use the FWD DSM's to race them with the edge still going to the Supra because it's wider and longer and does have 6 cylinders.But don't sleep on a 700+ hp fwd DSM.They are even twice as fast as an EVo when it comes to topend and will surely give the Supra a run for the money. :devillook :nono I'd feel safer in the Supra with my life on the line at those kind of triple digit speeds though. :D

I dont have that kind of power in my 89 mirage (4g63/20g) but it just keeps pulling hard as long as I'm on it. High speeds in my car are scarry, and if you run into traffic and need to get on the brakes...good luck.

I've had different results as an STi owner...my 04 STi would creep away from an E46 M3 when racing at speeds above 100mph...this was when i was stock...but now i rapidly pass them with just turboback and an EcuTek reflash. but i agree...if i could afford to get a M3 i would trade in my STi anyday for one...any takers??
Ghost :cool

I agree, the STi and Evo dont have as much top end as an M3, but it has a lot to do with their gearing, but they are not slow cars at the top end either.

The M3 has good top end, but I dont care what anyone says. A properly sized turbo with the right supporting mods will FLY in the topend. I think a stock E36 M3 would be a close race even in the top end with a stock Sti or Evo, but once the two turbo cars are modded, my money goes on them.

I have raced my friends STi in my E46 M3 many times, and I would pull away, but not too hard. I would put maybe about 3-4 cars on him well past 100 mph though. His car was stock and I had an exhaust. A stock E36 M3 has no chance against my M3, so it would be a close race against the STi or Evo.



I'd still take an M3 over an STi or Evo though.

Yeah, I mean I dont mind the AFCs at all, but definately a standalone would give you a lot more control over everything instead of just providing a band-aid like an AFC. I havent talked to my buddy in awhile, but knowing him I am sure he already has an AEM EMS in it now, and a whole slew of new mods!

Oh, yeah I know a lot of DSM owners and their cars are nasty! Back in the day, DSMs werent thought to be much of a challenge, and I was more use to that, but now they are really coming out strong. People who are true DSM fanatics dont spend a dime on their exterior, but have it put all in their performance, whether it be chrome/polished pipes, or straight zip-tying everything together! They know how to do that shit well too.

If I were to fear racing one car, it would most likely be a DSM. I would rather race american muscle actually, than a DMS, haha. Racing a well modded AWD DSM from a dig, especially a 6spd Supra, is a disaster for the most part. Its then all just about driver and a lot of catching up to do! If I'm not on a tire or slick then forget it. I wont even bother racing one from a stop. I have seen many DSMs tear new assholes in A LOT of cars. It just leaves people who dont know anything wonder how a little POS looking car can do that.

If it was a higher speed race between a Supra and DSM, or any car for that matter, my money would still have to go on the Supra, if I had to choose that is. I know these FWD DSMs can have sick HP and killer top end, but a Supra definately has better aerodynamics, and the advantage of having a bigger displacement too, but if you ever sit in a properly set up single turbo supra running on some nasty boost on the highway, you will know exactly what I am talking about. I am sure a high HP DSM would definately give a good race, and perhaps win, but my first bet would still be on the Supra.Life on the line and $$$,Yep ,edge to the Supra at those heavenly speeds. ;)



I dont have that kind of power in my 89 mirage (4g63/20g) but it just keeps pulling hard as long as I'm on it. High speeds in my car are scarry, and if you run into traffic and need to get on the brakes...good luck.I experienced that so I put on BAER brakes on the Talon.Prior to these Big brakes with all the power the car was scary and hard to stop so I know what you mean :D . Try some Stoptech's on the Mirage.

I've had different results as an STi owner...my 04 STi would creep away from an E46 M3 when racing at speeds above 100mph...this was when i was stock...but now i rapidly pass them with just turboback and an EcuTek reflash. but i agree...if i could afford to get a M3 i would trade in my STi anyday for one...any takers??
Ghost :cool

Another notch in my belt...last night raced an E46 with a supersprint exhaust and had some sort of intake...sounded mean as hell but was able to still crawl away at speeds over 100mph.

Did you guys hear about the Vishnu upgrade Car and Driver did on their EVO. What a nightmere. The car had so many problems leaky BOV, O2 sensor kept poping out, tune was not do right, when they finally got a run they fried the clutch. Still ripped of a 12.5 thought. They said it was fun while it worked, but do not recommend the stage 2+ to anyone. It sort of reminded me of my APU supra. It spent more time in the the shop than my garage.

Sam

Did you guys hear about the Vishnu upgrade Car and Driver did on their EVO. What a nightmere. The car had so many problems leaky BOV, O2 sensor kept poping out, tune was not do right, when they finally got a run they fried the clutch. Still ripped of a 12.5 thought. They said it was fun while it worked, but do not recommend the stage 2+ to anyone. It sort of reminded me of my APU supra. It spent more time in the the shop than my garage.

Sam

Some of the problems they had were wierd. I mean shit happens but there are plenty of local guys running a comparable setup without any of those problems. C & D complimented their tuner two or three times in the article, yet that o2 sensor fell out 2 or 3 times. They should have canned his ass. He didn't do a thorough jon IMHO by the sound of the problems they had. Clutch problems is one thing...but all that other stuff... :confused

Some of the problems they had were wierd. I mean shit happens but there are plenty of local guys running a comparable setup without any of those problems. C & D complimented their tuner two or three times in the article, yet that o2 sensor fell out 2 or 3 times. They should have canned his ass. He didn't do a thorough jon IMHO by the sound of the problems they had. Clutch problems is one thing...but all that other stuff... :confusedI agree. How does an O2 sensor pop out unless it's cracked or just simply broken.I've never heard of that.That's just weird. :confused

This one has run it's course. And Steiner, please watch the profanity here in the Main Forums...