Last weekend I was at VIR and its seems like my buddy blew his head gasket (99 M3). The car still hasn't been torn down but I can't help speculate that the fuel starvation that he was exeperiencing casued the failure. Anyone else experience something similar? I doubt he overheated the car becasue he never saw the temp guage go into the red zone.

Thanks
Jason

Last weekend I was at VIR and its seems like my buddy blew his head gasket (99 M3). The car still hasn't been torn down but I can't help speculate that the fuel starvation that he was exeperiencing casued the failure. Anyone else experience something similar? I doubt he overheated the car becasue he never saw the temp guage go into the red zone.

Thanks
Jason

:dunno ....I've had a head gasket failure twice ...each time it was a result of overheating...the second time happened because the shop that did the work the first time monkeyed it up :(

Fuel starvation, car runs lean, detonation, can definitely lead to a blown head gasket.

Lean is the key term.. like John said.

I'll second or third the comments about detonation leading to head gasket failure.

My first event in the M3 is coming up in April and I'm getting anxious about fuel starvation. I had this issue in my previous car and I ended up with a "trick" fuel pump setup to help quell the problem. I really didn't expect the M3 to have this problem!

My first event in the M3 is coming up in April and I'm getting anxious about fuel starvation.

just keep plenty of gas in the car and it won't be an issue....

my car doesnt start starving out until i am a good bit below a 1/4 tank...

Before I put Bimmerworld's fuel starvation kit in I would get it on long right handed sweepers when my tank was less than half full; I got it once with a little over a half tank. It's definitely a big issue with E36s.

blowing a head gasket due to fuel starvation and leaning out the engine...alright, how much or how long does the engine have to run lean for this to happen?

I have the bimmerworld kit in my race car...however even before I had it I always tried to run a 1/4 - 1/2 tank of fuel, you shouldn't get starvation at VIR (or any other track) with that amount of gas for any 30min period at full bore...

if you do get starvation most likely it'll be coming through hogpen (at VIR happened to me a couple of times)...the engine will stutter and come back, you'll loose a tiny bit of momentum, recover and be back at full throttle before corner exit, no big deal...if you need you can just pit in and get some more fuel...

I just think the notion of blowing a head gasket because the car got fuel starvation a couple of times during a race or session is not likely, I'm no mechanical expert or engine builder, but I have had fuel starvation moments in the car (even with the bimmerworld kit when I was running a VERY low fuel load with 7 laps left in the Beaverun Sprint race) this past season and find it hard to imagine that would lead to a head gasket failure...

Sunir...when our car was HP setup, we got fuel starvation in T2 and Hogpen. We got fuel starvation any time the car was below 1/2 a tank (when our second fuel pump went out). In my experience, every car seems to be different...even cars with the same pump setup. My old street M3 was particularly bad as well, even though it wasn't pulling the same G's as the HP car.

if you do get starvation most likely it'll be coming through hogpen (at VIR happened to me a couple of times)...the engine will stutter and come back, you'll loose a tiny bit of momentum, recover and be back at full throttle before corner exit, no big deal...if you need you can just pit in and get some more fuel...


i always notice it first when i'm exiting turn 2 (at vir)....hmm, maybe i'm just not going fast enough through hogpen ;)

Fuel Starvation will cause it to run lean. Running lean will blow a head gasket. Higher rpms while starving will have a worse effect.

(A+B)C=?

Fuel Starvation will cause it to run lean. Running lean will blow a head gasket. Higher rpms while starving will have a worse effect.

(A+B)C=?

alright doby, you seem to keep thinking everyone is a moron (or maybe you think I am??) and things are so simple :rolleyes ... statements like above A causes B so B will cause C ...in a simple world maybe but not in most cases. :nono Refer to below real life examples:

a couple of things from EXPERIENCE:

1) on a RACETRACK (not autox)...if a car has fuel starvation during a turn it stutters the engine for a very short time, yes the car can wash the rear out a bit or the driver can let up the throttle slightly, everything will be fine and the car will be back to full throttle asap (such is the case with low fuel load and a fast long sweeper)...this has happened to me MANY times...and yes at VERY high rpms. I have not blown a head gasket...so A may have = B but B did not cause C...

2) again on a track...at any point, even going up a hill with a very low fuel load can cause starvation, to prevent this a driver can short shift...if fuel starvation occurs, from my expereince it's not going to destroy the engine...maybe if it's a prolonged duration it may, but not if its a sort duration and happens a few times...

I am not saying fuel starvation will have no effect on an engine in terms of going lean for a brief moment, I am saying that fuel starvation does not necissarily mean a blown head gasket as Doby's A causes B causes C simple logic (please man, if your going to make a point then think it through and talk about it, I know your a smart guy so I'd expect better from you but don't throw something out to others as though they are 2 year olds, that's not gonna help anyone)...I've encountered fuel starvation half a dozen to a dozen separate instances last season on a variety of race tracks, in sprints and enduros, over a vairiety of temps and conditions, and my headgasket was fine.

I agree with sunir on this one. I can not count the number of times my engine would starve on the track, before a second pump was installed. This usually happened between 6000 and 7000 RPM. In every case except one, there was no ill effects at all. In one case at Mid-Ohio, the check engine light came on and I believe the ECU went into limp home mode. After resetting the engine code, the engine ran fine. Maybe I have been lucky many many times, but I think it is safe to say that fuel starvation usually does NOT cause a head gasket failure. That does not mean it never will happen.

Bob

Sunir, it CAN happen. Vacuum leaks can do it too. If the car had overheated, he would have known it. Maybe the car overheated prior to the event and the gasket was in bad shape. The point is, it CAN happen. The original post said the car did not overheat because the gauge didn't go into the red.

And I've had fuel starvation on a PARKING LOT too. :)

I agree with sunir on this one. I can not count the number of times my engine would starve on the track, before a second pump was installed. This usually happened between 6000 and 7000 RPM. In every case except one, there was no ill effects at all. In one case at Mid-Ohio, the check engine light came on and I believe the ECU went into limp home mode. After resetting the engine code, the engine ran fine. Maybe I have been lucky many many times, but I think it is safe to say that fuel starvation usually does NOT cause a head gasket failure. That does not mean it never will happen.

Bob

see Doby et al, another voice of experience chimes in...I don't want to look like someone who is as hands on and mechanical as some of you guys because I am not, most of you all turn a wrench better or are more mechanically inclined...and a lot of you know about engines...I do my research and try to learn and find out more. Most of my input, in fact almost all of it, comes from real world expereince (or discussing issues at length with experts within the discipline) and not threory and simple correlations based on what appears to make sense on the surface as a logical cause and effect relationship but doesn't add up in real life.

[edit: JD when I posted this I hadn't yet read your post above, your explaination makes sense above and I think it CAN happen through other factors in the mix...it's all good :) ...I know you know your $hit and have respect for you, so I always expect better (more helpful for all of us bimmerforms members) answers from you because you're capable of it and thinking through issues]

When the car is running lean and stumbling due to fuel starvation, the engine is also typically pre-detonating. Obviously detting is difficult on the engine as a whole, but the headgasket is prone to failure. I'm not suggesting that it will happen quickly, but if his headgasket finally blew at the track, chances are it was an issue with the engine for many miles. (I'm speaking from experience with my previous car, too.)

steve - We aren't talking about consistent fuel starvation, just fuel starvation caused by high G loads on the race track that only lasts for 1-2 seconds max.

In this case the car began to experience starvation at a little under half a tank. Its difficult at a track like VIR to keep the tank topped off when each session consumes about 1/4 tank and the nearest gas station is 20mins away.

I have also experieced fuel starvation in my car and my motor continues to run strong. I'm just not sure why his went, if indeed it was fuel starvation that casued it.

the nearest gas station is 20mins away.
or 20 seconds...there are gas pumps in the north paddock....

In this case the car began to experience starvation at a little under half a tank. Its difficult at a track like VIR to keep the tank topped off when each session consumes about 1/4 tank and the nearest gas station is 20mins away.

I have also experieced fuel starvation in my car and my motor continues to run strong. I'm just not sure why his went, if indeed it was fuel starvation that casued it.

buy some 5 gal fuel jugs and fill up a few of those in the A.M. when your going to the track...then unload 5 gallons each time as needed to prevent stavation or budget fuel load properly...assuming running 93 pump gas, otherwise north paddock to the 100+ fuels

I still run on 93 pump gas in the race car so I fill up 2 - 3 jugs in the morning based on the day's schedule

or 20 seconds...there are gas pumps in the north paddock....

Or he could just install a nuclear reactor and never have to worry about going to a pump again.... In the long run cost will be the same...

The problem with carrying jugs is that his car is driven to events so there's no room to carry the 5 gallon jugs, which would have been a good solution. I'm thinking a fuel starvation kit combined with a 3 gallon jug may be just perfect for a complete day.

Or he could just install a nuclear reactor and never have to worry about going to a pump again.... In the long run cost will be the same...

paying 3.05/gallon for 93 octane is better than risking fuel starvation....i never said gas was cheap at the track, i just mentioned that there is gas closer than 20 minutes away...isnt there a gas station in milton, nc also? thats about 5-10 minutes from the track....

Actually 3.05 isn't that bad. I guess I never even bothered to look at the price since the last event I went to (WGI) a gallon costed about 5.50. Next time I'll have to find that station in NC. I'm to paranoid to randomly roam those roads, they all look the same.

Actually 3.05 isn't that bad. I guess I never even bothered to look at the price since the last event I went to (WGI) a gallon costed about 5.50. Next time I'll have to find that station in NC. I'm to paranoid to randomly roam those roads, they all look the same.

the race gas prices at vir are pretty crazy but the 93 octane is almost bearable....i think there is a gas station right on the main road (hwy 57) in milton....i know what you mean about the roads in that area, its some backwoods sh!t up there ;)