<img src="http://www.nrubenstein.com/images/323 and m3 rear.jpg"></img>
<img src="http://www.nrubenstein.com/images/323 and m3.jpg"></img>
<img src="http://www.nrubenstein.com/images/323 interior.jpg"></img>

Not bad for 114,000 miles, huh?

It's got the PERFECT option list as well:
Sport Package
CD Player
Onboard Computer

That's IT. None of that extra crap, and most importantly, NO MOONROOF!

Over the next few months, that car will change quite a lot:
Partial interior gutting
Roll bar
Complete suspension repalcement, including SOLID bearings in place of bushings.

In a year or so, it's quite possible that it'll become an SCCA ITS/BMWCCA KP race car.

Congrats on the purchase! How much did you get it for? Looks very mint for 100k miles on it.

Does it need a waxing? :D

It cost me $10,950. I was hoping I could find something to beat the seller down over, but we had it up on a lift, ad I couldn't find anything wrong with it. I'm still dumbfounded by the condition.

Edit: And while this thing has great paint, it's going to live outside for a year, and it'll get the crap beaten out of it.

It cost me $10,950. I was hoping I could find something to beat the seller down over, but we had it up on a lift, ad I couldn't find anything wrong with it. I'm still dumbfounded by the condition.

Edit: And while this thing has great paint, it's going to live outside for a year, and it'll get the crap beaten out of it.

that would be a great daily driver. great buy.

This may sound ass backwards, but it's going to be the track car.

It cost me $10,950. I was hoping I could find something to beat the seller down over, but we had it up on a lift, ad I couldn't find anything wrong with it. I'm still dumbfounded by the condition.

Edit: And while this thing has great paint, it's going to live outside for a year, and it'll get the crap beaten out of it.

Damn thats one hell of a deal. Whats the first mod you got planned for it?

Damn thats one hell of a deal. Whats the first mod you got planned for it?
Ground Control coil overs with Advance Design shocks, sways, RoadRaceTech solid suspension bearings and control arms, and a Kirk Racing roll bar.

Not much. ;)

This may sound ass backwards, but it's going to be the track car.
why an e46?

why an e46?
Because it's probably faster than an E36 in ITS, and because I'd rather build the faster car. It doesn't really change the final cost all that much, but moving from an E36 to an E46 would be EXPENSIVE.

Edit: That and it runs in KP, not JP. JP is inhabited by things like 330s. The E36 325i can have that fun.

It cost me $10,950.

Are you kidding me? I had no idea you could get an E46 for that cheap. Anything wrong with it other than slightly high mileage? :eyecrazy

Ground Control coil overs with Advance Design shocks, sways, RoadRaceTech solid suspension bearings and control arms, and a Kirk Racing roll bar.

Not much. ;)

o my :eek:

Are you kidding me? I had no idea you could get an E46 for that cheap. Anything wrong with it other than slightly high mileage? :eyecrazy
It *might* need new rotors to pass inspection.

Are you kidding me? I had no idea you could get an E46 for that cheap. Anything wrong with it other than slightly high mileage? :eyecrazy

seriously. in that great shape, and for that price, there is a swap that is tempting too. :P

It *might* need new rotors to pass inspection.

I think EVERY car needs new rotors to pass MD inspection. :rolleyes That's such a great deal, would even make a nice comfy daily driver. Have fun with that thing!

I think EVERY car needs new rotors to pass MD inspection. :rolleyes That's such a great deal, would even make a nice comfy daily driver. Have fun with that thing!
I'm inclined to leave the ones that are on now so that I can give them something not made up to fail me for. :p

My plan is actually to drive it daily for the next couple problems in order to discover any latent issues that might come up.

I'm inclined to leave the ones that are on now so that I can give them something not made up to fail me for. :p

Haha, sounds like a plan.

I have to say, though, that open diffs are teh suck.

I hate you by the way. I just went through 10 pages of the classified forum looking at E46's and now Im going to look on autotrader... :mad

Lol

I have to say, though, that open diffs are teh suck.

ditto ..

i couldnt even do donuts in the rain :(

WOW, great find. I had no idea that the prices are down that much. :eek:

Looks like you got a great platform to make a club car.

Ground Control coil overs with Advance Design shocks, sways, RoadRaceTech solid suspension bearings and control arms, and a Kirk Racing roll bar.

Not much. ;)

congrats and smart choice on the 323 platform E46 chassis pick...I was thinking of this also, but alas I dunno how much I wanna keep throwing $$$ at racing.

The slope is slippery Nick, once you start racing you'll more than likely be hooked...as for modding your car, even with the above parts...hope you have plenty of $$$ on hand to start. That being said, this car of yours is the way to go...I think the E36 is good, but the E46 is a dominant platform for a number of reasons...

oh and if you ever need a co-driver... ;)

congrats. cant wait to see this project unfold :D

is it a 99? u can legally swap a 99 M3 motor in there if so! (but i am sure u know that already :D)

congrats. cant wait to see this project unfold :D

is it a 99? u can legally swap a 99 M3 motor in there if so! (but i am sure u know that already :D)
I could. But that would completely defeat the point of buying it.

....did the iPod come with the car? ;)


That is an awesome purchase man, congrats!

nice project, but I would think that an E36 chassis ITS car would out perform an E46 one :confused

nice project, but I would think that an E36 chassis ITS car would out perform an E46 one :confused
Why?

It's a known fact that the E46 chassis is faster than the E36. (And a lot of E36 ITS guys are shopping for an E46 right now.)

Why?
Oh, I don't know - maybe because the E36 is lighter? :stickoutt
It's a known fact that the E46 chassis is faster than the E36. (And a lot of E36 ITS guys are shopping for an E46 right now.)
Are the minimum weight requirements the same for both chassis? How about the restrictor the E36 guys have to run - does the E46 have to run the same restrictor?

well, I was just thinking because E36's have been dominating ITS? But what do I know, I am a just a solo specialist ;)

well, I was just thinking because E36's have been dominating ITS? But what do I know, I am a just a solo specialist ;)
The E46es were never allowed in ITS before this season. The E46 has a bit of a weight disadvantage (150lbs.), but no restrictor plate requirement.

Regardless, the car is DRAMATICALLY more competitive in BMWCCA CR. The E36 325 gets to go up against E46 330s, while the 323 is classed lower.

It is unfair that this can run in KP though. It should be in JP. I don't think KP is the place to be in the future though. It will be interesting to see the E36 challenged by the E46. Heck, even HP is not the idea place to be in. Ideally, I would be running a spec miata. A fairly prepped spec miata with decent driver can finish mid-pack. You have to open up your pockets to finish up front though.

I wonder if there will be a lot of cheap ITS E36's then soon, e.g., sub-10K range. Right now, all I see are $20K ones.

The E46es were never allowed in ITS before this season. The E46 has a bit of a weight disadvantage (150lbs.), but no restrictor plate requirement.

Regardless, the car is DRAMATICALLY more competitive in BMWCCA CR. The E36 325 gets to go up against E46 330s, while the 323 is classed lower.
If the E36 325 was the dominant car (as I understand it was) with the added intake restrictor requirements to slow it down and the E46 is FASTER STILL... I would expect to see similar adjustments levied against the E46.

So let's modify your statement.

It's a known fact that the unrestricted E46 chassis is faster than the intake restrictedE36.
:stickoutt

the E46 chassis is better for racing period. There are inherent structural and design advantages...trust me. Don't let the weight issue fool you, in race trim all the useless weight is taken from the chassis so weight is not an issue per se. Fair or not (and James, racing is not fair...it's very possible to build the perfect car just as it's possible the pole sitter will crash and a slower car will win...anything happens), Nick's car has the potential to DOMINATE KP for starters, it ITS the car will be very potent, all ITS BMWs are required to run restrictors in '05, I don't know additional implications on the E46 vs. E36 chassis cars in ITS.

the E46 chassis is better for racing period. There are inherent structural and design advantages...trust me. Don't let the weight issue fool you, in race trim all the useless weight is taken from the chassis so weight is not an issue per se. Fair or not (and James, racing is not fair...it's very possible to build the perfect car just as it's possible the pole sitter will crash and a slower car will win...anything happens), Nick's car has the potential to DOMINATE KP for starters, it ITS the car will be very potent, all ITS BMWs are required to run restrictors in '05, I don't know additional implications on the E46 vs. E36 chassis cars in ITS.
Restrictors aren't listed in the ITS rules for the 323, just the 325s, Sunir. Where'd you hear they'd have to run them?

It will be interesting to see the E36 challenged by the E46. .

there's no challenge, the E46 will beat the E36...similar drivers and within the same set rules for race prep of each car.

Dominant cars: In KP the E46 323, in JP the E46 330ci, in HP the E46 M3...

E36s were the BMWs to race in the past, the E46 is the chassis to have now...I love the E36 chassis...but it is what it is...

Sunir-

I've always wondered about the E36 328is/328i as that would've been more competent in JP and have more potential than the 325is. As you are saying, the E46 330 is eligible in that class, why wasn't the 328 ever allowed in that class? Was it a matter of by the time the 328 was technically eligible more powerful cars like the 330 were already out? Now that the E46 330 is eligible could someone enter a 328i/is in JP?

Chassis wise, I would think that the E46 is more competent than the E36-it's all evolution of the species, but I would think the engine tuning to optimize an S54 is not out there as the E36. Granted the S54B30 out of the 330 comes with more power than the M50 and it would take less to tune it to out perform a maxxed out M50 prepped within JP specs.

Uh, the 328 is legal in JP. Go look at the rule book. :p

And you're thinking of the M54B30. The only S54 goes in the M3.

And I'd say that Turner and others have probably approached the tuning limits for the M54s.

That's the thing, don't know much about club racing. Maybe I was thinking of the 328 not being eligble for ITS but rather ITE.

Yeah, I was incorrect when I mistyped with the S54-meant to say M54.

Sounds like you're going to have fun in that 323!

Granted the S54B30 out of the 330 comes with more power than the M50 and it would take less to tune it to out perform a maxxed out M50 prepped within JP specs.

this is very true...look at Will Scott's JP car from '04...it dominated the class, the E36's in that class had no chance...again, an example of a dominant car within a class.

As for 328i E46 chassis...it would say in the rulebook where that car is to go...if it were in JP, I'd still opt for the 330i without a doubt.

I was talking to Pete Stackhouse about it, and he estimated that a JP 330 is about 2-3 seconds faster than his 325i aroudn Mid-Ohio. (I think it was Mid-Ohio, anyway.) And Pete's 325 is pretty freaking worked over. :p

the E46 chassis is better for racing period. There are inherent structural and design advantages...trust me. Don't let the weight issue fool you, in race trim all the useless weight is taken from the chassis so weight is not an issue per se.
It is an issue if the shell is heavier. Seats, carpets, sound deadening, etc, I agree with you. My question is: is the E46 shell heavier and if so, how much? Do the cars race at the same minimum weight?

As for the structural and design advantages, what are they specifically? I understand the chassis is probably more rigid. Is this still true after the installation of a full roll cage? Is the suspension geometry significantly different from the E36 to the E46 and if so, how?

Just curious...

The minimum race weight for the 325 in ITS is 2850, and the 323 is at 3000. 3000 is easily achieved in a (quasi) street legal car. :p

I can't and won't quantify any other advantages, I'll just point out that in any class I can think of where both the E46 and the E36 are allowed, the E36 is not winning.

The minimum race weight for the 325 in ITS is 2850, and the 323 is at 3000. 3000 is easily achieved in a (quasi) street legal car. :p

I can't and won't quantify any other advantages, I'll just point out that in any class I can think of where both the E46 and the E36 are allowed, the E36 is not winning.
DSP?

I can't and won't quantify any other advantages, I'll just point out that in any class I can think of where both the E46 and the E36 are allowed, the E36 is not winning.

But Car and Driver says that the E46 pushes and is a pig compared to the E36. :D

But Car and Driver says that the E46 pushes and is a pig compared to the E36. :D
And the E30 was the pinnacle of BMW design!!!1! :rolleyes

I just want to understand how a heavier car with the same horsepower is the faster platform. :confused I agree that the E46's structural enhancements (specifically in the rear suspension) are a big deal for longevity, but I'm talking pure lap times here.

JV

DSP?
I don't count autox. The fundamentals are VERY different. And even there, I only see one entry. And note that all the E36es got beat by the only IS300.

And the E30 was the pinnacle of BMW design!!!1! :rolleyes

I just want to understand how a heavier car with the same horsepower is the faster platform. :confused I agree that the E46's structural enhancements (specifically in the rear suspension) are a big deal for longevity, but I'm talking pure lap times here.

JV
I'm guessing rear suspension geometry is a big one.

I'm guessing rear suspension geometry is a big one.
How is the geometry different from an E36?

And the E30 was the pinnacle of BMW design!!!1! ...
JV
I just had to quote that. :D

---Eric

How is the geometry different from an E36?
Dunno, exactly.

Really, all I can say is that they're consistently faster everywhere else, and I see no good reason to get anything but.

that that is a beautiful buy, good job :redspot

E46 on the racetrack (and this is w2w only, don't know about autox) is at an advantage to the E36 for the following reasons and I'll just mention without going into too much detail (this has been based on what I've seen this past season as well as what I've discussed with TC Kline, Will Turner, Bimmerworld, and Barry at RRT)

1) chassis rigidity and robustness...structural efficiencies, stronger mounting points and better sustainable unibody

2) wider track and slightly larger wheel base

3) ability to use wider tires

4) suspension geometry (this one was explained to me but I am not well versed enough in the physics behind it...there are subtle differnces that make the car better on track, but the experts know more about this)

furthermore, laptimes have shown the cars to be very effective, and the chassis themselves fully stripped are no more heavier than that of the E36 to make a significant difference...