Hey guys... I've been reading some posts on the track/autoX part of the forum on what to expect for your first track day/driver school/autoX/etc. All of what they say makes perfect sense but I'm wondering if there is any way to better prepare by doing certain things while street driving.

I would not be doing any events in my car, as the suspension is in a state that would make Doug's blue beast look like it was on rails, but I was wondering for the future (different car or not). On the street I've been practicing heel-toe downshifting and am getting pretty smooth... When there is no one on the road in the early morning I've been taking side roads quite fast, focusing on smooth braking/accelerating, subtle steering moves, getting the car set for the corner, looking far ahead, etc. I'm also getting more comfortable with the feeling of the car sliding/slipping though a corner.

What else is there to do preparation wise? Find a parking lot somewhere and see what it feels like to saw at the wheel and toss the car around at lower speeds? What do ya think? :redspot
-Matt

All of that sounds good to do, however, none of it will prepare you for actually experiencing it. I wouldn't recommend doing any of that on the street, save it for the track, Especially with what you said about going to a parking lot a practicing, for one, you will only get into trouble and 2, you will only hurt other clubs in the area who autocross in parking lots, if something bad did happen and they found out why you were doing it.

The only way to really prepare, it to go and experinence it, then your learning curve will go up drastically.

Reading performance driving books is a good start, playing driving video games with a steering wheel and pedals is also pretty good.

Only seat time will get you better, so the sooner you start the better off you will be!

Yeah, true. Would you reccomend a driving school before autoX (obviously before a track day)? I'm not sure where you instruct/race but since you are around here most likely at Limerock, yes? Do you think the Skip Barber program up there is a good one to try out?

I own Speed Secrets and have read that a few times to get me thinking properly...

an autox is a driving school (of sorts) U dont' need to attend a school before an autox. Just ask for an instructor while there.

One thing that i like to do on the street is finding the apex of corners... Don't take them at abnormally fast speeds, however, you will find that by finding the right line through corners you can be MUCH faster than your average mom mobile.

Cheers,
Jonas

Yeah, I do that... kinda tough sometimes while still observing the whole "lane" thing. :devillook But who needs em anyway.

Would all organized autoX's have an instructor or veteran who does things like what you mentioned?

They damn well should have instructors... Try to see if there is a local BMWCCA chapter near you and see when they have their autox's... thats who i run with.

Madskillz, check www.autox4u.com or the westchester sports car club www.wscc.org, they post autox and trak days around our area, I been to a couple at Orchard Beach were you could get driving help from GJ (bmwclubracer), Mark Daddio, I think even Pat Salerno was giving some help. I would highly recommend attending and driving, best way to go. Plus its a ton of fun.

yeah, i agree w/ everyone else.....your first autox may seem very intimidating, but there are usually several other people there attending their first autox as well.
just go and have fun....don't worry about trying to be fast, there's plenty of time for that later.

The local BMW CCA autoX's ~should~ have instructors at them. That is the point of having them....teaching people how to control their cars better. It is not REALLY like SCCA autoX's where there are national level points on the line and such.

And BTW, my little blue e21 IS on rails....it just tries to lean off of them! :D The Falken Azenis Sports help though....until they get too warm. Hopefully I'll have even more weight off soon though, to help keep them from heating up any faster.

Anyway, find a local autoX group and go out with them. Whether it is BMW CCA or SCCA, there is nothing like just getting behind the wheel and doing it. Instructors are good, but you MUST practice to remain sharp. And even if SCCA is the only game in town, so what. Get out there, start doing it, and faster runs will come in time. So what if you aren't competitive at first. You're out there to learn first, THEN try for places!

Up here we have SCCA and PCA (porche club). SCCA here is lax on the rules like letting guys in evos with modified blow off valves run in a stock class. No one from here cares about national points since it's so far away to actually get there, but some classes are very competitive. This year if they let the modded turbo guys run stock I'm not gonna go SM just cause my head is polished then.....

and the PCA rules make our SCCA club rules look tough.....PCA allows chipped cars in stock class...

One thing you can practice everyday (although it's harder in a manual) is Left foot braking. If you can hit the brakes with your left foot and have you foot on the gas at the same time you go faster (if you get good at it) since you don't have any lag in acceleration since you don't have to move your feet. I practice this sometimes on my wife's CRV since it's an auto.

One thing you can practice everyday (although it's harder in a manual) is Left foot braking. If you can hit the brakes with your left foot and have you foot on the gas at the same time you go faster (if you get good at it) since you don't have any lag in acceleration since you don't have to move your feet. I practice this sometimes on my wife's CRV since it's an auto.
...And you'll wear out your brakes faster. Not to mention if you DO have a manual you run the risk of getting the rpms low enough to stall, since your left foot should be ready to hit th clutch, not on the brakes. That's where heal-and-toe foot work would be coming in handy.

:devillook Of course I was usually left foot braking in the first 2 auto tranny cars I ever had too.....it was sorta fun.

My girlfriend has a 2002 Honda Civic (auto) and a month ago I discovered she left foot brakes. She has no idea why, but I said "That's so.. hot!" Haha... :D:D:D I asked her why she did it and she said "It's just easier to have a foot over each pedal."

most autox will have a meeting befor the state if you have any questions ask them MSCC which i belong to actually let beginners take a practice run practice helps the more you do it the better you get my first time wasnt the best but i know but the times i had i have gotten better

Doug: I'll find a friend who is willing to shoot my car in a really tight quick turn... my car has all season tires (on before I got the car) so it will probably start to slide before it gets to your "degree of heel" but it feels pretty darn tipsy from inside :eyecrazy

I'll try to see if anyone I know will be doing an autoX in the spring... no Bimmer fans but thats ok.

What do you guys think about driving schools and their price per days/ racing v. performance driving programs/etc?

I'm an instructor with most of the clubs in the tri-state area and am at most events. All events do have instructors at them and depending on the club, some of the instructors are more open and friendly then others. I'll be starting my season as soon at the first event in spring rolls around.

I started out doing driving schools with the BMW Club, then moved onto autocrossing a couple years later, and now I will drive and participate in anything I can get my hands on.

I highly recommend the Skip Barber program. It is top notch! I'm a graduate of the Skip Barber program and do some formula racing with them occasionally. The only thing about this program though is that I highly recommend prior performance driving/racing experience. The school has too much to offer and too much to learn for all novices and a lot of seasoned veterans. I'm at Lime Rock several times a year. I have approx 3,000 miles of laps driven at Lime Rock.

I recommend that you start off by doing some autocrossing, that way you can get a feel for pushing a vehicle to its limits. Its much safer to learn at a street driven speed, then get in way over your head at high speed on a track if/when something goes wrong.

As Pat (yonkers320i) mentioned, all Autocrosses in the tri-state area are posted on www.autox4u.com Its also a great site to check out and get a lot of helpful information for novices. Most of the clubs that are listed on the site also do host driving school and track events.

As far as acutal $$ per driving time, you can't beat Club Driving Schools at tracks. For about $200 to get anywhere from 1-3 hrs of track time depending on the club is great. Autocrosses, depending on the club cost about $20-40 for about 6 minutes of driving time. The next thing you have to figure is your driving time to and from the events. I did a divisional event a few years ago, which I had to travel a few hours to. After the event I calculated out what my costs were and I almost fell over. For a 2 day autocross at which I believe I got 6 runs- 3 runs per day. If I remember correctly, that event cost me $27 per second of driving time on the autocross course which was about 50 seconds long. Not very cost effecient, but it was a lot of fun.

As far as stuff to practice during everyday driving:
Looking ahead as far as you can see and not the bumper of the car in front of you
Rev Matching and Heal-Toeing

Left foot braking could be practiced, but it depends on the car. I'm not really a fan of left foot braking, I'd rather use my left foot on the dead pedal to help brace me in the seat while cornering. If you switch cars a lot I don't recommend it. It takes a while to get your left leg to adapt to doing multiple things. You'll find that if you left foot brake in an automatic car, then go to a manual car, you'll think the clutch is the brake at first till you remember. And in an emergency situation, you may forget which car you are in and react wrong and hit the wrong pedals.
I watched that happen to a friend of mine last week. He was driving another persons car, which was the same car that he owns, so is very familiar to how the car drives. This friends car had a lot of modifications and had changed the pedals to aftermarket racing pedals. The first intersection we came to, he hit the brakes and the car accelerated. He wound up yanking the e-brake to stop the car. He hadn't realized that the pedals had been modified and were really close together, so he was driving as it was his own car, resting his foot in his normal spot and hit the brake and the gas at the same time. This just goes to show you, how something simple can cause a rather large problem. At least we didn't hit anything! :D

As far as watching driving videos, and reading books. They are all great to do and I do recommend getting as much info as possible, however, until you have enough driving experience you won't really know how to apply those techniques correctly.

When you are first starting out, just concentrate on learning, don't worry about your performance or your time. Everyone has to start somewhere. You just can't jump into something and think you are good at it until you actually try it.

There is a NY BMWCCA Tech Session coming up in a couple of weeks in Mt. Vernon, you and Pat should come! I'll be going to it.

Hey, thanks for the response! Pretty impressive-- is instructing your full time gig?

I'll be sure to have a look on the site and see what is coming up around here soon. Since there are a variety of small things wrong with my car that add up to make it un-raceable, do you think that if I went to an event as a spectator I could learn some stuff and possibly catch a ride with someone (when it isn't being timed)? I think that just being in the car and feeling what it is like would help immensely even if I couldn't drive at that event.

Is this fairly common or are most of the people there actually driving the event? Also, what is this upcoming tech session...info? Thanks. :redspot

Instructing is not my full time gig, but I'm either in the trailer running the event, or I'm instructing, then if I have the chance, I get to drive my car for some runs.

You'll be surprised as to what will actually pass a tech inspection, so you may be able to run your car. It all depends on exactly what it wrong with it.

There are quite a few spectators that do show up to some events, however almost everyone that does show up to an event is entered and driving in it.

The only way you could catch a ride would be if you entered the event at registration in the morning, and were a registrered competitor for the day.

Tech Session Info: http://www.nybmwcca.org/latest_news.shtml

...And you'll wear out your brakes faster. Not to mention if you DO have a manual you run the risk of getting the rpms low enough to stall,



What are you talking about, don't push both pedals at once.

If you need to downshift just use heel and toe and when you don't need to shift use left foot braking.

It's really not that hard.

Hey guys... I've been reading some posts on the track/autoX part of the forum on what to expect for your first track day/driver school/autoX/etc. All of what they say makes perfect sense but I'm wondering if there is any way to better prepare by doing certain things while street driving.

I would not be doing any events in my car, as the suspension is in a state that would make Doug's blue beast look like it was on rails, but I was wondering for the future (different car or not). On the street I've been practicing heel-toe downshifting and am getting pretty smooth... When there is no one on the road in the early morning I've been taking side roads quite fast, focusing on smooth braking/accelerating, subtle steering moves, getting the car set for the corner, looking far ahead, etc. I'm also getting more comfortable with the feeling of the car sliding/slipping though a corner.

What else is there to do preparation wise? Find a parking lot somewhere and see what it feels like to saw at the wheel and toss the car around at lower speeds? What do ya think? :redspot
-Matt

I don't know if your BMW CCA chapter offers Car Control Clinics but I would reccomend one of those before you do anything. After that you should head to an auto-x and if you have any quastions just ask the people that run fast times :)

Oh and please don't drive recklessly on the street. NEVER go over the double yellow or any other lane separators in blind corners. I have seen many accidents from that sort of thing.

If the conditions (wet, gravel) aren't right or there is traffic please don't attempt anything that would endanger the other motorists on the road. You will have plenty of time to practice in the CCC and auto-x events.

Oh and please don't drive recklessly on the street. NEVER go over the double yellow or any other lane separators in blind corners. I have seen many accidents from that sort of thing.

If the conditions (wet, gravel) aren't right or there is traffic please don't attempt anything that would endanger the other motorists on the road. You will have plenty of time to practice in the CCC and auto-x events.

Thanks Ma ;) Yeah, no worries I'm not an idiot. Driving fast and smoothly is different than driving recklessly and barely in control.

You happen to do autoX or track events... did you do a CCC or not? Thanks for advice.

You happen to do autoX or track events... did you do a CCC or not? Thanks for advice.

I am leading my class in our local BMW CCA auto-x program. I also do High Performace driving schools on the local tracks here (Laguna Seca, Infinion Raceway). I have completed a CCC and instruct at all of them; I highly recomend them. I am working my way up to a track instructor but for now I am just staff for the event. :redspot

Oh and don't get me wrong, I love drivng and I do drive fast on the street. The most important thing is to asses the situation around you and decide if it is safe. But like I said, please never, ever, cross the double yellow in a blind corner, that is a death wish. :(

Sounds pretty sweet. How long have you raced?

I've been trying to convince a friend of mine to go along with me to an autoX, so I don't feel like a complete ass being there for the first time AND knowing no one. I'll likely try a performance driving school or CCC when I have the extra money to spend on it. It would seem that a two day event like Skip Barber would be best, because by all accounts by your third time on the track after all the classroom stuff, everything they have taught you beings to gel. Unfortunately, those cost a fair bit. :(


GJ: I just realized that the 19th I'm going to be up in VT skiing with my school so unfortunately I'm not sure I can make it to the tech session...

Sounds pretty sweet. How long have you raced?

I've been trying to convince a friend of mine to go along with me to an autoX, so I don't feel like a complete ass being there for the first time AND knowing no one. I'll likely try a performance driving school or CCC when I have the extra money to spend on it. It would seem that a two day event like Skip Barber would be best, because by all accounts by your third time on the track after all the classroom stuff, everything they have taught you beings to gel. Unfortunately, those cost a fair bit. :(


GJ: I just realized that the 19th I'm going to be up in VT skiing with my school so unfortunately I'm not sure I can make it to the tech session...


No Prob on the 19th! You don't have to worry about showing up to an event and being a Noob, there are at least 5-10 Noobies at every event and we welcome them. And depending on which event you go to, I may be there, so you would at least know me! :D