Is anyone using this on there car and does it make any difference? :help

Is anyone using this on there car and does it make any difference? :help

I've never been able to find any definitive proof of its effectiveness.

I would think that if it's such a wonderful thing many of the top tuners would be using one.

With that in mind I would spend that money in a more effective way. I've read some good documentation on Water Injection and many members on this board can attest to it's worth.

When I go turbo with my M3 I plan on using water injection as well.

if this is the co2 setup with the loop tied up against the intercooler, then I say go for it. icing up the intercooler can only give you colder temps and that's a plus. there are a dozen ways to go ahead with this type of setup and ebay has a few DIY kits you can try your skills with.

yeah it seems like a good idea , but i was wondering if anyone was using it and it did any good?

check out the supraforums. A few people have it on there, i believe

if this is the co2 setup with the loop tied up against the intercooler, then I say go for it. icing up the intercooler can only give you colder temps and that's a plus. there are a dozen ways to go ahead with this type of setup and ebay has a few DIY kits you can try your skills with.
so your saying it does add hp, now how about if we sprayed nitrous?

so your saying it does add hp, now how about if we sprayed nitrous?
Yeah these are all the questions I would like to know too :D

IMO - it's retarded given the cost of refilling a bottle to spray on your intercooler(which won't stay cool for very long).

Why not just rig up a small 25 shot of nitrous if you really want to cool things down? It will easily cool the intake charge WAY more than spraying it on the intercooler, and also give you far more power. A small wet shot just before the TB would work nicely.

You mean like this?

Oh here is the way it works. You don't spray a few shots to cool the thing down, you spray the entire run down the track or on the dyno. The cost vs. performance potential is not at all worth it.

I'm with whats-his-face, throw in a small shot of N2O. I believe that the smallest shot possible is a 15 with aftermarket jets. Even then a 15 shot of N2O would give you more potential than the Ntercooler.






Juker008

those talking about price; have you ever filled a co2 tank? it costs about $4 for a big bottle compared to $40 for n2o.

Your not going to be spraying nitrous oxide to the intercooler. There are plenty of other gases available that would have the same rapid cooling effect for a fraction of the cost of n20, not to mention it is more readily availible

IMO - it's retarded given the cost of refilling a bottle to spray on your intercooler(which won't stay cool for very long).

Why not just rig up a small 25 shot of nitrous if you really want to cool things down? It will easily cool the intake charge WAY more than spraying it on the intercooler, and also give you far more power. A small wet shot just before the TB would work nicely.

:withstupi

You internet experts make me laugh.

Here's how it works, you stage up, hit the cooler spray for a few seconds, drop your IAT way down, then forget it.

The purpose is to knock over heat soak you get idling up the staging lanes and waiting around for the racers in front of you, the starter fiddling around, etc.

If you use nitrous into your intake then it puts you in a different racing class. Then you're racing against the guys who use 250+ shots with multiple stages. Not smart.

You internet experts make me laugh.

Here's how it works, you stage up, hit the cooler spray for a few seconds, drop your IAT way down, then forget it.

The purpose is to knock over heat soak you get idling up the staging lanes and waiting around for the racers in front of you, the starter fiddling around, etc.

If you use nitrous into your intake then it puts you in a different racing class. Then you're racing against the guys who use 250+ shots with multiple stages. Not smart.

What he said, excellent synopsis, Kenny... :buttrock

I don't know how efficient your system is but the temp of my intercooler (turbo)does not get much warmer than ambient during idle. yet just after a 1 gear pull during a dyno run without any air flow it'll give you 2nd degree burn.

just sparying Co2 or nitrous for a few seconds to cool it down while stationary won't improve you power output much. The temperature difference between a freshly cooled core and ambient will be gone in a couple seconds.

I guess it would be useful if you are looking for that last tenth in a sanctioned race class but for a marjority of us $$$ is not worth it.

spraying nitrous INSIDE will also help spool the turbo on top acting like a liquid intercooler. Good for those bigger turbos that don't get full boost till 4000+ rpm.

I don't know how efficient your system is but the temp of my intercooler (turbo)does not get much warmer than ambient during idle. yet just after a 1 gear pull during a dyno run without any air flow it'll give you 2nd degree burn.

just sparying Co2 or nitrous for a few seconds to cool it down while stationary won't improve you power output much. The temperature difference between a freshly cooled core and ambient will be gone in a couple seconds.

I can only speak from my own experience, but my IAT goes up way higher than ambient if the car sits and soaks. On the other hand once there is good airflow through the 'cooler the IAT quickly drops. That's why a hit of spray at stage will bring the IAT down to a better level which will then be maintained during the pass.

One other point, with track temperatures exceeding 140 oF in Sydney on occasion maybe my experiences are different from most USA racers.

The coolest air we've ever seen is 48 oF and the track temperature was still 60 oF.

You internet experts make me laugh.

Here's how it works, you stage up, hit the cooler spray for a few seconds, drop your IAT way down, then forget it.

The purpose is to knock over heat soak you get idling up the staging lanes and waiting around for the racers in front of you, the starter fiddling around, etc.

If you use nitrous into your intake then it puts you in a different racing class. Then you're racing against the guys who use 250+ shots with multiple stages. Not smart.

If that's what you want to do - one word - Methanol. A fine mist will remove a huge amount of heat out of the intake tract as it evaporates. You obviously can't soak the thing due to the whole fluid issue...

If you're that worried about heat soak, do some simple ducting with thin aluminum and put a decent electric fan on your radiator. Bingo - ambient temp FMIC ready to go whenever you are.

The reason why putting a phase change gas over your intercooler is stupid, is that as soon as you start moving, the ambient airstream is warming your IC up in addition to your intake charge. Putting a fluid on it to evaporate is the smart(and cheaper) way to do things - a la EVO8/STi.

Nothing internet expert about this - it's called simple chemistry/physics.

If that's what you want to do - one word - Methanol. A fine mist will remove a huge amount of heat out of the intake tract as it evaporates. You obviously can't soak the thing due to the whole fluid issue...

If you're that worried about heat soak, do some simple ducting with thin aluminum and put a decent electric fan on your radiator. Bingo - ambient temp FMIC ready to go whenever you are.

The reason why putting a phase change gas over your intercooler is stupid, is that as soon as you start moving, the ambient airstream is warming your IC up in addition to your intake charge. Putting a fluid on it to evaporate is the smart(and cheaper) way to do things - a la EVO8/STi.

Nothing internet expert about this - it's called simple chemistry/physics.

First up let me thank you for calling me stupid. You've got to love the internet.

Totally agree about methanol, unfortunately street cars don't run methanol.

Our setup includes twin thermo fans and plenty of ducting, I'm not sure what more we can do in that area.

Again, once the intercooler is exposed to the airflow we're in business. It's the heat soak before the car moves that's the issue.

You've caught yourself in a beautiful internet expert trap in your haste to be rude. You can't use a liquid spray on your intercooler on a drag strip. The starter would disqualify you instantly for dropping liquids on the racing surface.

Of course, if you'd ever raced a car you'd know that. Stick to your books ;-)

Is anyone using this on there car and does it make any difference?

The three alternatives I looked at where the Nitrous Express N-TerCooler (http://www.nitrousexpress.com/Pages/Ntercooler.htm) the NOS Intercooler Spray Kit (http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLine/Products/NOS/NOSNS/intercooler_spray_bar.htm) and the Design Engineering Inc CryO2 System (http://www.designengineering.com/products.asp?m=sc&cid=1).

I would say that these systems are fairly drag racing specific. For street use, who cares if your intercooler heats up now and then?

For the ricer brigade all these systems are available with a purge setup to delight and amaze all within miles. The NOS brand comes with a blue LED option to make the plume even more sinister!

First up let me thank you for calling me stupid. You've got to love the internet.

Totally agree about methanol, unfortunately street cars don't run methanol.

Our setup includes twin thermo fans and plenty of ducting, I'm not sure what more we can do in that area.

Again, once the intercooler is exposed to the airflow we're in business. It's the heat soak before the car moves that's the issue.

You've caught yourself in a beautiful internet expert trap in your haste to be rude. You can't use a liquid spray on your intercooler on a drag strip. The starter would disqualify you instantly for dropping liquids on the racing surface.

Of course, if you'd ever raced a car you'd know that. Stick to your books ;-)

Uhhh - I suggest you reread both of our posts and see who is being rude. I never called ANYBODY stupid, but you sure seem to have quite the tone of superiority in your post. I said the idea was "stupid" - as in it just doesn't make sense from a physics standpoint.

Phase change cooling on the core does net some benefit, but you're fighting the cooling effect from both directions. As in you cool the intercooler down, and as soon as you start moving the ambient airstream is heating the core up to ambient, and you are introducing hot air through the core. The more efficient your core, the faster it will bring your previously chilled core up to temp, and it probably won't take all that long if the thing isn't extremely heavy.

I never said anything about running methanol as a primary fuel, I mentioned spraying it on the intercooler. Ethanol would work too if it is easier to source.

I've been to a dragstrip before - it's not exactly like it's some elitist activity... I am well aware that one cannot "drop fluids" on the track - hence my comment of "You obviously can't soak the thing due to the whole fluid issue..." I realize the FI forum is quite drag centric, but there are other situations in which additional core cooling is advantageous and practical besides the drag strip. Thanks for the cute comment about "sticking to the books."

A light mist before you ever stage would provide cooling benefits while staging, AND extended cooling while you are moving given that alcohols have a high latent heat of vaporization(takes lots of energy to evaporate them). The concept is that as you move forward, precooling the core will have heat being introduced to it from both the air stream and interior

Both would work, but one is much cheaper to implement, and could probably give a better effect to ETs and trap speed if drag racing is your thing(it isn't for everybody).


You would do well to take some of your own advice of "being rude."



Do whatever you want with your car, but I'm just expressing scientific information about the original topic. Don't take offense because you don't like what I posted.

If you're going to make this personal(I don't see why it should be...) - please PM me that side of it. No need to muck up this potentially useful thread.

..
I never called ANYBODY stupid, but you sure seem to have quite the tone of superiority in your post. I said the idea was "stupid" - as in it just doesn't make sense from a physics standpoint.
..

Ah, sweet, sweet rhetoric! So using a nitrous or CO2 intercooler spray is stupid, but people who do it aren't? :-)

If you're going to make this personal(I don't see why it should be...) - please PM me that side of it. No need to muck up this potentially useful thread.

I've posted three links for nitrous and CO2 intercooler spray kits in response to the original question, plus my first hand experiences.

It's all good, no blood no foul! My advice is if you don't want things to be personal then be careful with the "stupid" comments.

I got a lot out of your posts on reading compressor maps, it's great to read that sort of useful info.

Maybe I shouldn't have used the word "stupid" since I guess it is easy to be taken as an insult. I didn't mean it that way - I'll rephrase it as saying phase change intercooler spray is "not worth the hassle and price for the performance compared to other solutions."

No harm no foul. I wasn't trying to make a personal attack, as we're all here for the same reason and I've got no problem with you.


I did some off the cuff calculations to see how close my "guess" was and it does look pretty interesting. I'm drinking scotch with some friends, but I'll try to post up something with some coherent maths a little later if I'm not busy.

Easy gents... :cop

Well guys I called NX last Friday. I asked them how the NX Ntercooler should be used. The tech told me that it should be used prior to staging. I then asked them that after the 1st few seconds of the run the intercooler would return back to ambient temp because of the ambient airflow going over it. He then recomended to me that the Ntercooler should then be sprayed while running down the track.

From a few others that I know running with the kit claim that by spraying prior to staging helps their 60', but after that they claim that it is illefficent. They all said that they spray at the line then continue while running down the track.





Juker008

Well guys I called NX last Friday. I asked them how the NX Ntercooler should be used. The tech told me that it should be used prior to staging. I then asked them that after the 1st few seconds of the run the intercooler would return back to ambient temp because of the ambient airflow going over it. He then recomended to me that the Ntercooler should then be sprayed while running down the track.

From a few others that I know running with the kit claim that by spraying prior to staging helps their 60', but after that they claim that it is illefficent. They all said that they spray at the line then continue while running down the track.





Juker008so it probably wouldnt last very long on a 10lb bottle.maybe a couple of runs? Do you think having one can hurt anything?

so it probably wouldnt last very long on a 10lb bottle.maybe a couple of runs? Do you think having one can hurt anything?

With a 10 lb bottle you're looking at ~ 3 minutes of spray time. That's enough to do plenty of passes.