This evening as I was driving along with two other passengers I had a new encounter. It was a Camaro SS with no plates striaght from the dealership. My passenger looks over as the car pulls up to stop at a light. So he pulls up even more and kind of looks like he is getting comfy to shift. Like when You are about to race. So I am like oh he wants to race. But I don't get ready to launch it. i take off normal. When i hear him punch it in first. I too hit open the throttle. Next thing you know we are even 1st, 2nd, Then Third he pulls on my about half a car. By the end of third I am at his rear bumper. He slows down for some reason and I roll pass him also slowing down. I turn left and he follows me. So I tell him "good run is that stock?" He tells me No! So I was like okay. He returns the question. I say yes it is! Now we are rolling next to each other. I am still in second around 3.5. I hear him d/s and I am waiting for him to punch it. I think he is also doing the same waiting for me. So off I go. I hit the throttle. Now I am ahaead by like a car. I know he is try =ing because I hear his car from the rear. I then slow down and he just fly's by me. I wanted to give him a godd race thumb's up but I couldn't get next to him because of sudden traffic. Very nice race imo.

On a side note. I have a buddy with a neon (not an srt) who tells me he actually kept up with on. I believe they were neck to neck or pretty close. He also claims that he beat a supra (95 I think) w/turbo. Also his doors got blown away by a vette and he tells me to go and race one. :eyecrazy :rofl

Your car is stock, you had passengers, he was modded, and you still kept up? Wow thats impressive, I always thought SS's were a lot faster than an E36 M3, nice kill.

Your car is stock, you had passengers, he was modded, and you still kept up? Wow thats impressive, I always thought SS's were a lot faster than an E36 M3, nice kill.
stock SSs should run somewhere in the 13.3-6 range if they shift right (or step on it right since many are homomatic) but if you kept up with him that's good

Thanks! I think he was the type to bluff. He kinds of shook his head like a tuff guy. Not to stereotype but he did look kind of ghetto. He and his buddy both look like gangsters. It was only judging by the way they look. No offense anyone. Just saying.

On a side note. I have a buddy with a neon (not an srt) who tells me he actually kept up with on. I believe they were neck to neck or pretty close. He also claims that he beat a supra (95 I think) w/turbo. Also his doors got blown away by a vette and he tells me to go and race one. :eyecrazy :rofl
Nice race man. I'm alittle confused though. Your friend with a neon "not the srt-4" kept up with an SS. I think he left the part out, "then I woke up". An srt-4 is good for low 14's. The SS is a mid to low 13 second car. And your friend doesnt even drive the srt-4, so I'm confused but nonetheless nice kill. Oh yeah and a supra turbo which is at par if not faster than an e46 M3. Your friends neon must have like 30K in it right, being it's the slower not srt-4 model???? I dont mean to come off rude so dont take what I've said the wrong way it's just what you said is not completely believable if you think about it. Also you said he stated he was modded which he could have been lying but if he wasn't that puts him in the low 13 second range if not better, easy. Your car stock is low 14's to mid 14's stock. So he must have been a really bad driver I take it.

He was just toying with you. There's no way you should've stayed even close to him, especially considering that you had two passengers.

He was just toying with you. There's no way you should've stayed even close to him, especially considering that you had two passengers.

It was probably a rebadged 6cylinder?

It was probably a rebadged 6cylinder?

I suppose it's possible, but he said it was straight from the dealership with no plates. That'd be a mighty fast rebadging. :)

1 minor correction, SS' run closer to 13.0 if launched properly...

there is NO way you could ever keep close if he was actually racing. My brother has a 98 SS, and he has an exhaust, intake, and short shifter. He runs a 12.8 quarter mile, and rapes my M3 at any speed. Though I am auto, I raced numerous GT Mustangs 99+ from about 20mph - 60mph, and we were dead even. When I raced my bro's SS, he destroyed me by buslengths.

That you kept up in 1st and 2nd gear doesnt suprise me, LS1s are not geared for bottom end from the factory. However, once 3rd or ~70mph rolled around, it would have been a decidedly one sided race from there. Any number of reasons why this race may have gone as it did, but it doesnt really matter. Congrats on a very worthy kill. :cool

PS, Your buddy with the neon is smoking some killer crack, he really should lay off the stuff. :confused

That you kept up in 1st and 2nd gear doesnt suprise me, LS1s are not geared for bottom end from the factory. However, once 3rd or ~70mph rolled around, it would have been a decidedly one sided race from there. Any number of reasons why this race may have gone as it did, but it doesnt really matter. Congrats on a very worthy kill. :cool

PS, Your buddy with the neon is smoking some killer crack, he really should lay off the stuff. :confused


I completly disagree with you. A modded SS like the one he encountered could probably hit 60mph in 4.9 seconds(with an SLP loudmouth exhaust alone), assuming he can launch well. Like I said above, my brother's car (98 SS with SLP loudmouth, SLP short shifter, and CAI) is on par with a C5 Corvette off the line, but at about 70mph-120mph he will pull on the C5. 95' M3 Stock is rated 0-60: 5.7 sec+ weight of the guy's passengers= 6 seconds+. There is no way he was racing, or he was shifting at 4k rpm. So how can his M3 pull an SS off the line :confused ?

If you've got a stock as stock can be LS1 fbody vs. a well driven E36 M3, from a dead dig to 60/70 mph, the M car will not fall back much. Its all in the gearing. Some LS1s are faster than others, and some M3s are faster than others, so theres a lot of variation here, not to mention drivers. But having raced a multitude of E36 M3s when i was stock/light bolt on (pre-gear swap specifically) I can say with some confidence that the M car wont loose out much in those low speed encounters. But, your experiances may be different than mine, and you are entitled to your opinion, naturally. :cool

i dont understand how an e36 m3 with 3 people in it could stay with an ss, and i dont think it was brand new since they stopped making them in 02. not tryin to bash but especially to hang iwth it in 3rd gear, its just not feasible, the ls1s best gear is 3rd gear. either way im sure it was fun.

Ive heard of a few dealerships that still have untitled Fbodies on the lot, so it is possible. Likely was just a clean, low mileage used one.

Yeah with 3 people in the car, its highly unlikely that the M would keep up. But it was a street race, so who the hell knows. :cool

sorry man... unless the guy was driving a 6 cyl.. you wouldnt have a chance.. one thing(the only thing) those cars are good for in stock form is straight line acceleration. A regular z28 should hand you your ass.

I agree with Phantz-Z and others on here.

An LS1 TRULY, notice how I say truly, as in show what it's really made out of, until 3rd gear.

The gearing on those cars are ridiculously tall in stock form. Hence the reason why most people go with 3.90s, 4.10s etc. With nothing but gears, a LOT of time can be shaved off the 1/4 mile on an otherwise stock LS1(I'm not talking about .1-.2 sec, I'm talking A LOT).

I'm not surprised at all that you kept up with him. Now we can go on and say he may have been auto, or he couldn't drive, or he was toying with you, in the end, you guys stopped when the LS1 REALLY shows why it traps 108-109mph.

Next time, run one on the freeway, even an auto, you'll see nothing but his tails.

There is no "well driven" E36 M3 that will have a snowball's chance in hell of keeping up with a the SS or a Z28 for that matter. C'mon guys, we know the M3 can handle, but an SS with a few boltons like exhaust and CAI, is well in the E46 territory, in fact quarter mile it is stronger than the E46. With a good driver, and a few minor bolt ons (back me up on this PhantaZ) the SS can run high 12s. There is no E46 M3 stock that can put down those kinds of numbers. That race would be a driver's race, even then, top end the E46 M3 would lose. Since when does a stock M3 put down 300rwhp to be a match to an SS? :nono Though it's strongest gear may be third, from a roll practically in any gear the SS can deliver enormous power, considering its redline is about 6K. From a stop, if launched properly an SS will spank any E36 M3. I am not doubting the result of the race, but THE GUY WAS NOT RACING, or he was racing from 2nd gear.

You guys should look at the power numbers you are comparing. It's like saying a 170hp Civic (with people inside)if it is well driven can can match an E36 M3. Is that true?

There is no "well driven" E36 M3 that will have a snowball's chance in hell of keeping up with a the SS or a Z28 for that matter. C'mon guys, we know the M3 can handle, but an SS with a few boltons like exhaust and CAI, is well in the E46 territory, in fact quarter mile it is stronger than the E46. With a good driver, and a few minor bolt ons (back me up on this PhantaZ) the SS can run high 12s. There is no E46 M3 stock that can put down those kinds of numbers. That race would be a driver's race, even then, top end the E46 M3 would lose. Since when does a stock M3 put down 300rwhp to be a match to an SS? :nono Though it's strongest gear may be third, from a roll practically in any gear the SS can deliver enormous power, considering its redline is about 6K. From a stop, if launched properly an SS will spank any E36 M3. I am not doubting the result of the race, but THE GUY WAS NOT RACING, or he was racing from 2nd gear.

You guys should look at the power numbers you are comparing. It's like saying a 170hp Civic (with people inside)if it is well driven can can match an E36 M3. Is that true?I must agree I went from a roll with ws6 trans am that has the same engine and from a roll 50 mph to110 we were dead even then I started inching him but very slowly,so they are very fast car since you had passenger I m a bit sceptical......!!!!

I must agree I went from a roll with ws6 trans am that has the same engine and from a roll 50 mph to110 we were dead even then I started inching him but very slowly,so they are very fast car since you had passenger I m a bit sceptical......!!!!

Yea you are far from stock minus a passenge.

Nice race man. I'm alittle confused though. Your friend with a neon "not the srt-4" kept up with an SS. I think he left the part out, "then I woke up". An srt-4 is good for low 14's. The SS is a mid to low 13 second car. And your friend doesnt even drive the srt-4, so I'm confused but nonetheless nice kill. Oh yeah and a supra turbo which is at par if not faster than an e46 M3. Your friends neon must have like 30K in it right, being it's the slower not srt-4 model???? I dont mean to come off rude so dont take what I've said the wrong way it's just what you said is not completely believable if you think about it. Also you said he stated he was modded which he could have been lying but if he wasn't that puts him in the low 13 second range if not better, easy. Your car stock is low 14's to mid 14's stock. So he must have been a really bad driver I take it.

You are right about my friend. Sometimes he just doesn't make sense!

He was just toying with you. There's no way you should've stayed even close to him, especially considering that you had two passengers.
I don't think so. He also had a passenger(s) also in the back I think..

It was probably a rebadged 6cylinder?

It was not rebadged. If it were rebadges then i would have eaten it up regardless. IMO

there is NO way you could ever keep close if he was actually racing. My brother has a 98 SS, and he has an exhaust, intake, and short shifter. He runs a 12.8 quarter mile, and rapes my M3 at any speed. Though I am auto, I raced numerous GT Mustangs 99+ from about 20mph - 60mph, and we were dead even. When I raced my bro's SS, he destroyed me by buslengths.

Maybe your car is just slow.....Auto right! :devillook

That you kept up in 1st and 2nd gear doesnt suprise me, LS1s are not geared for bottom end from the factory. However, once 3rd or ~70mph rolled around, it would have been a decidedly one sided race from there. Any number of reasons why this race may have gone as it did, but it doesnt really matter. Congrats on a very worthy kill. :cool

PS, Your buddy with the neon is smoking some killer crack, he really should lay off the stuff. :confused

Thanks! :lol

If you've got a stock as stock can be LS1 fbody vs. a well driven E36 M3, from a dead dig to 60/70 mph, the M car will not fall back much. Its all in the gearing. Some LS1s are faster than others, and some M3s are faster than others, so theres a lot of variation here, not to mention drivers. But having raced a multitude of E36 M3s when i was stock/light bolt on (pre-gear swap specifically) I can say with some confidence that the M car wont loose out much in those low speed encounters. But, your experiances may be different than mine, and you are entitled to your opinion, naturally. :cool
I totally agree!

There is no "well driven" E36 M3 that will have a snowball's chance in hell of keeping up with a the SS or a Z28 for that matter. C'mon guys, we know the M3 can handle, but an SS with a few boltons like exhaust and CAI, is well in the E46 territory, in fact quarter mile it is stronger than the E46. With a good driver, and a few minor bolt ons (back me up on this PhantaZ) the SS can run high 12s. There is no E46 M3 stock that can put down those kinds of numbers. That race would be a driver's race, even then, top end the E46 M3 would lose. Since when does a stock M3 put down 300rwhp to be a match to an SS? :nono Though it's strongest gear may be third, from a roll practically in any gear the SS can deliver enormous power, considering its redline is about 6K. From a stop, if launched properly an SS will spank any E36 M3. I am not doubting the result of the race, but THE GUY WAS NOT RACING, or he was racing from 2nd gear.

You guys should look at the power numbers you are comparing. It's like saying a 170hp Civic (with people inside)if it is well driven can can match an E36 M3. Is that true?

I see were you are getting at. But witht he civic deal you are just mainly toying with power to weight ration there. As for the SS he was racing. One thing I could probably go at his that he can't drive. So the way I see it is that I still lost right! I am not coming on here saying that I won against an SS. Of course you would know how they are since your brother as stated has one Right? Well one thig if you can't drive the car no point in having it right.

Well I dunno guys. You would think, being an Fbody owner I would say if the LS1 car has it all over the M car, and it does strait line, but from a dig up to 60 or so, they aren't far off. Thats my experiance and that of other guys I hang out with locally. Your experiances may differ.

That being said, before I did my headers and true duals, I raced a heavily worked E36 M3 (heads, cams, intake, tuning, gear and damn near anything else you can think of this side of FI) and from a dig we were dead even to 80, had to shut it down there. Went out of the highway and went from a 40 roll, and I worked him hard. Like 5+ cars to 120.

What Im trying to say is that, for all the power they have, LS1s are geared ridiculously tall from the factory. They make all their impressive time up in the last 1/8 mi of the 1/4 mile. There are quite a few cars that Ive raced at the track that are dead nuts with me up to the 1/8 mile, then I just crush them on the big end. :cool

maybe so....but if you would like me to race my brother's SS to prove you wrong, I would love to rip you a new one...our cars were built for a purpose, to handle well, to outperform anything on a track. If you really want to think you are faster than an LS1 go ahead, I just happen to have one standing next to my M3 in the garage that is faster 0-120 or so than a C5 vette. Maybe you can beat them as well!!! :redspot

bythe way, just because my M3 is auto, does not mean I don't know how to drive manual

maybe so....but if you would like me to race my brother's SS to prove you wrong, I would love to rip you a new one...our cars were built for a purpose, to handle well, to outperform anything on a track. If you really want to think you are faster than an LS1 go ahead, I just happen to have one standing next to my M3 in the garage that is faster 0-120 or so than a C5 vette. Maybe you can beat them as well!!! :redspot

bythe way, just because my M3 is auto, does not mean I don't know how to drive manual

Who exactly are you speaking too :confused ? I havent seen anywhere in this thread where anyone has said anything about an E36 M3 being faster than any LS1 vehicle (Fbody or C5 either one). If you were talking to me, in case you didn't notice.....I OWN AN FBODY BROUGHAM!!. Nobody is really saying anything contrary to your post here, Im just a bit confused is all. :cool

i was talking to the original poster...
i also have an LS1 standing in my garage.
I just think he is underestimating the SS. He may have won, but the driver of the SS probably miss-shifted or something.

i don't want to start a flame fest with anyone on here, just want for the SS to be given it's just respect. Phanta-Z, I'm not sure how a "well driven" M3 can keep up with a "well driven" SS. They are definitly faster from a dig, especially from a roll, and after 3rd they are gone. A "well driven" E46 is the challenger for the SS.

Nevertheless, congrats on your kill dude.

I think the e36 m3 is the fastest car ever made and will win every race no matter what kind. I also think that it doesn't matter how many mods or what mods a car has a e36 m3 will win. If you don't believe me you are missing out!






i bet someone will bite

i was talking to the original poster...
i also have an LS1 standing in my garage.
I just think he is underestimating the SS. He may have won, but the driver of the SS probably miss-shifted or something.

i don't want to start a flame fest with anyone on here, just want for the SS to be given it's just respect. Phanta-Z, I'm not sure how a "well driven" M3 can keep up with a "well driven" SS. They are definitly faster from a dig, especially from a roll, and after 3rd they are gone. A "well driven" E46 is the challenger for the SS.

Nevertheless, congrats on your kill dude.
Okay let's get this straight the way you are post in my thread is that you are saying that I beat an SS. You are :confused I have no clue were you got that assumption. As you stated in the second half of your post above I stayed up and up with him from 1st-2nd when THIRD came in tact he pulled on me! IT WAS ALREADY STATED IN THE FIRST POST OF MY THREAD. :shifty I wish you would have read from the begining. Let me clarify this thing from a dig. Well neither one of us launched So it was basically an all driver situation I suppose. I too do not want to start a flame fest but please get the facts straight. :eyecrazy

HINT: "I did not beat the SS. I stayed with him my first TWO gears. When we hit THIRD he pulled on me."

even still, he should have smoked you. He was a bad driver thats all.

Calm down man, I never said I didn't believe the outcome of your particular race, but for whatever reason he lost when he could have easily won. He would have smoked you, had he been a good driver, shifter, or maybe he was breaking it in?

so again, GREAT RACE, and great outcome for you. He was the one feeling like an idiot losing with all that power.

Dude I am calm you are the one getting mad because I kept up with an SS for the first two gears. As stated over and over again he did when. Man get the FACTS straight.

Easy gents.... :cop


(Hint: Dave's nice way of saying calm down or I lock this puppy up... ;) )

Easy gents.... :cop


(Hint: Dave's nice way of saying calm down or I lock this puppy up... ;) )

Rather suprised you didnt already. I guess nobody's cussing or calling names (yet). :cool

Sorry I just wanted to show him that I am not mad about anything. It is just plain and simple that he is clearly upset that I stayed with one for a little while. Again if I offended anyone I apologize for what it maybe.

Sorry I just wanted to show him that I am not mad about anything. It is just plain and simple that he is clearly upset that I stayed with one for a little while. Again if I offended anyone I apologize for what it maybe.

And I was agreeing that its perfectly comprehensible that a E36 M3 would stick with an LS1 car on the low end. Especially that it was a "new" fbody and the driver likely had all of a few hours to a few days of seat time in the car. Go figure. :cool

And I was agreeing that its perfectly comprehensible that a E36 M3 would stick with an LS1 car on the low end. Especially that it was a "new" fbody and the driver likely had all of a few hours to a few days of seat time in the car. Go figure. :cool

Phanta is right (as usual). A well-driven or decently modded M3 can keep up with an LS1 from a stop until about 50-60, then it's bye bye LS1. I think I have pretty good experience with this considering I went at it with my own M3 when my C5 was stock. The M3 had a 3.46 and a UUC 8.5Lb. flywheel and was putting down 222 rwhp before I replaced my supersprint exhaust with 328 exhaust (subtract maybe 5 whp). With my buddy driving the M3 (first time he drove the car), the 2 cars were DEAD even until about 50 or 60, then I started to pull on him slowly. When I shifted to 3rd (75 mph) I walked him hard and that was that.

I can definitely see how an M3 could do the same with a heavier F-Body. The gearing on these cars is just plain silly (I need 4.10's!). :)

I understand what you all mean about the gearing, however, remember the fact that the M3 had three people in it. So we're talking about a hp to weight ratio of ~16lbs per hp, which really isn't so good.

So I just don't see how it'd keep up in 1st and 2nd unless he was just playing around or didn't feel comfortable pushing it.

I ran a ws6 t/a in my e46 m3 from about 20 mph and it was dead even up to 135 or so when he let off , having both e36 and e46 I would say that from a standing start it would be pretty close till 3rd gear with the SS

Let me tell you one thing the total weight for the people that was with me would be only about 170 or so. Basically it would total out to be me and a passenger. Which is equal to the SS. He also had a passenger. I am not sure if he had any in the back because of his tinit. But I was sure he had one in the front.

He also had a passenger. I am not sure if he had any in the back because of his tinit. But I was sure he had one in the front.

Ah okay, it makes more sense to me now.

Glad to clarify it for you!