I'm looking for a track car to take out next year at Pacific Raceway. My buddy used to auto-x his 2002, and he said it was a lot of fun. I'd like to get something pretty much stock so that I don't get modded into a class that's above my driving ability. But I'd like a chassis with potential. I was hoping to find a car that has already been raced/setup so I don't have to deal with converting anything. Something that I can mod as my driving ability progresses. Doesn't have to be pretty or street legal, just functional on the track. I mainly want a good chassis. A roll cage would be nice. I was looking at the E30 M3, but I'm gathering that I'd be better off with an E36 from what I've been reading here.

I haven't looked at the rules yet or decided on which arena I'd like to compete, but it's possible that in the future I might just pull the engine and put a Borg-Warner 6 speed behind the 350 small block in my garage. Unless that puts me in a class that is too advanced in which case I'd keep the stock motor. It's all up in the air really, so I'm just testing the waters to get the advice of those who know more than I. For now, what's a good platform to start with?

Any input on these ideas fellas?

Whats the price range you are looking to spend?

Some cars currently for sale:

http://www.roadfly.org/bmw/classifieds/cars/detview.php?view=28405&sortby=_DATE&dir=ASC

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/bmw_sale_info.asp?ID=32181

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/bmw_sale_info.asp?ID=32212

Check here as well http://bmwccaclubracing.com/forsale/forsale.htm

Depending on what clas you want to race, what series, what class, etc.

If you want an E36, there are still some E36 WC cars floating around, if you can find a well setup, relatively clean (since all wc cars are smashed up a bit haha), they are relatively cheap for what they offer.

Jason,

I am sort of in the same boat as you. I have been looking all over for a good fit to start racing up here in the northwest. I have been downloading rules and pouring over them every night. I currently track a 98 M3 but I can't find a class where it would even be close to competitive. BMW Club racing looks like the best fit for me but the closest races I can find are in northern California. I can't afford to tow down there 4 or 5 times a year. I can't afford to keep my M3 and get a race car. I would hate to sell it but I figure that I should do this before my daughter gets older and is playing sports or something every weekend and I don't have the patience to wait until she gets out of college in 20 years!

What I have found is:

E30's can race in Pro3 in conference. I am not sure of its strength and how many cars show up each weekend. It looks promising. As far as I can tell, it was designed to keep costs down but maintain the fun of racing an E30 with other e30's.

E36's can race in ITS with SCCA. I know the overall cost is more and there is a lot of competition. I guess E46's have just been approved for ITS as well. Great class to race with but a lot of money to be competitive.

Depending on prep E30's and E36's can race in several other classes like RS, EIP, ITE, etc depending on their prep levels. I am not sure how competitive they are in these classes.

Can someone who races in the northwest chime in? It would be great to hear from someone who races up here that could give us some guidance. What is the best class in the Northwest to race a BMW?

Thanks in advance!

Hmm, I like the E30 from what I see in your links. The E36 is too much, class wise, price wise, and power wise for me right now. Thank you very much BTW. That gives me an idea of where to look. Pro3 is even a bit much for now. I'm very familiar with going fast as I've been riding motorcycles for 7 years now. Currently on a Ducati 996. Motorcycles really give you the same experience as to what lines to follow around a track and when to apply power/brakes. But cars are a different style and format all together, and I really want to start from the ground up. I've pushed a bike to, and past its limits, but never a car. Open track day, DE, and auto-x to start off. I need to get the feel of a new car at its limits and see what kind of capabilities I have. The E30 is cheaper, is in a slower paced class, and looks pretty decent. I just found a 2002 tii for sale quite cheaply, but I'd almost rather have the something more modern. Are there arena's where the 2002 can compete other than auto-x?

Are there arena's where the 2002 can compete other than auto-x?

They are not the car of choice anymore, but the 2002 can still be competitive in SCCA ITB from what I understand.

I haven't looked at the rules yet or decided on which arena I'd like to compete...

Then IMHO you're putting the cart before the horse.

Then IMHO you're putting the cart before the horse.

Not really. In fact when you go to ride horses they ask you your skill level, then match a 'vehicle' to your needs. This is what I'm doing. Finding a car to fit my needs. I'll decide what trails to take it on after I get in the saddle.

For the most part I'll be looking into both aspects at the same time though. I'm not going to buy my way into a class I cannot compete it. I'm not stuipid :D That's why I asking you fellas questions, right here on the message board, before I do anything.

To continue your analogy...The problem is that you may end up with the wrong horse that is incapable of riding any trails except the catch-all trail where you would be bringing a mule to race against a stallion.

For example...if you buy an E30 or E36 325 prepared above ITS levels (i.e. no M3's in particular), you'll end up racing in SCCA against Vipers, Porsches, and old Winston Cup cars. Same goes for other race series. There aren't a multitude of "steps" that you can prepare a car to in many cases...the car is either setup for a series or you end up in a catch all class running against cars much faster.

If you're going to invest in a race car, you owe it to yourself to find out about class structures now so that you can plan accordingly. You don't need a car built fully to the rules, but you need to make sure the car you buy isn't already built past the rules. Cages and some other mods aren't exactly easy to change.

Not really. In fact when you go to ride horses they ask you your skill level, then match a 'vehicle' to your needs. This is what I'm doing. Finding a car to fit my needs. I'll decide what trails to take it on after I get in the saddle.

For the most part I'll be looking into both aspects at the same time though. I'm not going to buy my way into a class I cannot compete it. I'm not stuipid :D That's why I asking you fellas questions, right here on the message board, before I do anything.

By all means then, go buy a car and hope 1) you have a place to race it, and 2) it's reasonable competitive.

I bought my 02 to take to track days and just to have fun with, and though its not all that competitive (yet) it sure is alot of fun, and it suprises quite a few people that such an old car can move like it does! Eventually i will have it setup to be competitive in a class but i have no clue which one yet... Possibly ITB... For now, its a platform for me to learn with!

Cheers,
Jonas

If you've got your heart set on racing a BMW (like I was a few months ago :D), the E36 is a versatile platform. If money wasn't an issue, I would just get an E46 323 because it just got classed into ITS and it may turn out to be the next car to have. The E36 325 has just been mandated to run a restrictor plate starting next year, and nobody knows what it will do. It may cripple it, slow it down just a little or it may not do anything at all. Who knows.

Back to the E36 325, it can be raced in both SCCA and BMW Club Racing, as long as you build the car to the SCCA ITS specifications. I went that route.

The E30 325 from what I understand is a good mid-pack runner in the SCCA ITS division, and in the BMW Club Racing series, it would be classed KP. I hear that KP is an up and coming class in the Northeast, but I'm not sure about the Northwest. I chose not to pursue the E30 route, because down here in Texas, there aren't any KP cars to race with. JP on the other hand gets a lot of participation due to the many E30 M3 racers.

In any case, like George and Bryan said, it helps to know what class you want to race in before you buy the car. I started out trying to figure out if my 328 could be raced anywhere, but I ended up getting the 325 because it was a more versatile and competitive car.

Good luck with it! Racing sure is fun!

By all means then, go buy a car and hope 1) you have a place to race it, and 2) it's reasonable competitive.

Thanks for reading my previous post carefully :rolleyes

Again, I'm looking at ALL aspects of the sport from the car to the competition formats. I don't know where you got the idea that I'm just looking at cars.

Jonas and snk328is, thanks for the input. That's the kind of information I'm looking for. :) I just want to get my feet wet and have some fun. Nothing too expensive at first because who knows what kind of time I'll have to devote to this until I try it.

Jonas, can you give me more infomation on ITB?

If it comes down to an E30 and E36 there are many things to consider. The E30 is cheaper but down on power and some parts are getting hard to find. You can find beater E36s for $8000-11,000 now and the parts are plentiful and there is more aftermarket support too. The E36 is a little easier to drive at the limit as well. This won't make you a world class driver but I like the fact that I can focus on racing instead of keep the car from stepping out on me.

The E36 is so easy to drive at high speed I almost feel guilty as I'm flying by tail happy 911s out of the corners. I don't think Bryan's and George's comments were rude at all. It makes sense, find out what series you want to run then get the most competitive car for that series that you can buy AND maintain. It's too bad you in the NW, I have many more racing options than I can afford in the SE.

So, are you dead-set on a BMW, or would you consider a lesser make? Also, do you have any idea what your yearly budget will look like? I think if you could answer those two questions, the people here might be able to help you out a little more.

-Bret

Jonas, can you give me more infomation on ITB?

I would, but i literally just bought the 2002 a month and a half ago, and its so early in the project that i haven't even thought that far ahead. Right now its just being built so i can take it to track days to learn and build up my skills enough to be competent in a race. The 2002's soul purpose for the next year or so will be to get me seat time...

Cheers,
Jonas

Echo - Be careful. If I were you I'd get ahold of some SCCA rules (GCR) so that you don't make any modifications that'll put you over and above the preparation allowed in ITB while prepping the car for DE's.

I have to say that the E46 323i as an ITS/KP car seems like a GREAT compromise car right now. I think an E46 323 in KP would CLEAN UP against the E30 prepared cars - slap in a TC Kline, Bimmerworld or Turner E46 suspension kit and you're goot do go! I predict these will be the hot crossover cars in a few years... Cheap too - lots of examples of the E46 323 out there for $15-$16k I think.....

Which will be even more funny when an E46 ITS car is out there beating all the rest of the E36 and E30 (2.5 liter M3) JP cars.

e49 323 from 99 can even be had for 7k if you look around or have a friend who goes to auctions. Imo decided on what class you wana race before you even think about what car, i didnt do this and i have a catch all car and a half sitting in my driveway, but at least id rather do solo I's right now.

e49 323 from 99 can even be had for 7k if you look around or have a friend who goes to auctions.

You wouldn't happen to have a line on one would you? :devillook

You wouldn't happen to have a line on one would you? :devillook
Don't get any crazy ideas lol

Just buy a TMS WC car :)

lol my friend did it was in decent shape too i gotta ask him if he can get anymore

lol my friend did it was in decent shape too i gotta ask him if he can get anymore
Hot damn, $7K for an E46 323? No way!

For Sale: 1995 325is, prepped for SCCA ITS and BMW CCA JP... :stickoutt J/K

lol i talked to him and he actualy bought it for him self for a possible swap project, i gotta talk him into making a race car lol. he said he doesnt see them around all that much for the money but if i hear anything ill post up

I have to say that the E46 323i as an ITS/KP car seems like a GREAT compromise car right now. I think an E46 323 in KP would CLEAN UP against the E30 prepared cars - slap in a TC Kline, Bimmerworld or Turner E46 suspension kit and you're goot do go! I predict these will be the hot crossover cars in a few years... Cheap too - lots of examples of the E46 323 out there for $15-$16k I think.....

Don`t forget the PMI/// Roll cage and preparation! :redspot

:D

(E36 is a very good compromise if you ask me...! :buttrock )

So, are you dead-set on a BMW, or would you consider a lesser make? Also, do you have any idea what your yearly budget will look like? I think if you could answer those two questions, the people here might be able to help you out a little more.

-Bret

Not dead set on BMW I suppose. I'd just like something RWD, a true sports car arrangement. For now I'll start by doing auto-x. But I'd like to move into a simple door to door series where I can run with other cars.

And as others mentioned, Seattle does not have a lot of nearby venues for competitive racing. And I have no intention of traveling the country. It will be strictly for fun as I have nothing to prove as far as winning anything.

Just buy a TMS WC car :)

World Challenge is too expensive for my blood...I was just thinking that a nice ITS car could easily be "downgraded" for Grand-Am Cup racing though in case you wanted to step up the competition. :D

Not dead set on BMW I suppose. I'd just like something RWD, a true sports car arrangement. For now I'll start by doing auto-x. But I'd like to move into a simple door to door series where I can run with other cars.

Hmm...RWD...true sports car...auto-x legal...door to door racing...

Sounds like Spec Miata to me. :redspot

Hmm...RWD...true sports car...auto-x legal...door to door racing...

Sounds like Spec Miata to me. :redspot

lol. I hate to say it but you're probably right. Only problem is that I'm 6'3" and can barely fit in the older ones. Won't I get wet when it rains? :eek:

Nah, I know a 6'2" SM driver who has no troubles. you should be fine.

-Bret

The former ITA champion 240SX and close second place this year is for sale at $15,000. Probably the best deal in motorsports right now.

See the classifieds at http://www.improvedtouring.com

There's a Miata on there too that is more in my price range. Is it difficult to race in a softop?

Spec Miata's all run hard tops, and typically have a full welded in roll-cage. The car isn't a drop-top in racing form so no worries.

-Bret

Check the classifieds on www.SpecMiata.com I think there is one or two in your neck of the woods. It is much cheaper to buy one already converted than build it yourself (but may not be a much fun :) ).

The NorthWest does not have a lot of places to race a BMW but it does have a GREAT Spec Miata community. All the guys are really nice and they would probably let you try one on for size to see if it fits. For what it is worth, I am about 6'3" and with a well built cage I can fit in one just fine.

Cool. That's a very useful site. I really don't want to build a car anyways. I have too much customizing to do on my other cars/bikes to mess with a race car. When you put that much work into something you begin to care about it. I'd rather buy one already done so I can romp on it freely. It costs less if you get one pre-built too.

I wonder if a Miata would do good in a drift contest :D

Pro3 is awesome and there are more and more cars joining us. Come out to a few races next year and check it out for yourself :)
-Ted

Pro3 is awesome and there are more and more cars joining us. Come out to a few races next year and check it out for yourself :)
-Ted

Cool, you're right up the road from me. Can you direct me to more information on this?

Email me and I'll get you on the Pro3 email list. I believe we are also having a meeting Dec. 29th at Bison Creek Pizza.

thecar325@hotmail.com

-Ted

I too have run into the same question regarding a car for a track setup etc. I made my choice and went with a 2002, but I have heard from many other track drivers that the spec miata is the way to go. I think it really depends on what you want to get out of the car, ie how competetive you want to be. For instance, I choose the 2002 because I have always been interested in them and wanted a good project, and I don't expect it to be a track winner constantly. They are a good platform, but they are older which means it will be more work to get it ready. If you are dead set on a car, then I say go for it, but if you do not have a preference, you are probably better off getting a car that is somewhat setup to get you into the sport.

Are there any classes for Mini's out there? Old ones, not new.

liberate a 2002 - have fun mid pack - enjoy vintage racing/club racing

Are there any classes for Mini's out there? Old ones, not new.

SCCA Production racing.

I just talked to a guy today with an '86 325e, 5 speed, black on black. I can get it for under $1000. All stock which is fine to get me started I believe. Think I should go for it? The 325e has less power than the 'i' from what I understand.

Also found a '83 Porsche 944. Asking $1,000. What do you think?

Also found a '83 Porsche 944. Asking $1,000. What do you think?

I used to own an 87 944S... all i have to say is, have fun with the repair bills...

I used to own an 87 944S... all i have to say is, have fun with the repair bills...

That doesn't sound good. I'm a mechanic by trade, so labor is not an issue. Are parts expensive? Break frequently? And mainly, is it a competitive car here in the northwest?

That doesn't sound good. I'm a mechanic by trade, so labor is not an issue. Are parts expensive? Break frequently? And mainly, is it a competitive car here in the northwest?

Parts are extremely expensive, things do break frequently, and to make a 944 competitive would be quite pricey because of the cost of parts.

If you can get the 325e for under a grand I don't see why you shouldn't. There is one guy who ran with the 'e' motor for a while, then last year swapped it out for an 'i' motor. There's plenty to learn without having to worry about power.
-Ted