I know it's not pro racing but what did you guys think of the t2 race in this year's 2004 SCCA Runoffs?

What was up with the Neon guys? First lap of the race there was a very optimistic Neon that decided he wanted to rejoin the race after running wide on to the grass straight into the side of a CTS-V. He did a really good job chucking that thing into the tire barrier. Please don't even attempt to give him the benefit of the doubt because it was clear from the replay he was making no attempt to hit the brakes or turn the wheel.

Later in the race another Neon decides that it's a good place to pass under the Goodyear bridge and takes another CTS-V off the track. As he makes his way back onto the track with no momentum into the keyhole he "tries" to shut the door on TC Kline. Then at the top of the hill the Neon makes a move to basically force TC off the track and subsiquently TC who was probably pretty angry at this point cooks it into the next turn and pushes the Neon off putting both cars out of the running for a podium.

I'm not advocating what happened between all the drivers but from a spectator's perspective both neon driver's looked pretty foolish in an event that is traditionally the pinacle of "clean racing" and "racing for fun." Even though I think TC should have probably kept his cool and fought it out on the track, the Neon probably would have pushed him off at the end of the race anyway to take the win.

What do you guys think?

It was like watching NASCAR. I do not support any of the drivers involved. Everyone who has raced has been pushed off or tapped out sometime in their careers. I know I have been punted off a track before, but you HAVE to look the other way. I thought it was amusing to see Kline just full out punt the guy, and I did laugh. However, if Kline had handled it differently, he would have likely been on the podium, got some cash, and had a pretty good day. Instead, he let his emotions get to him and you saw the result.

I thought the two Neon drivers in question are complete dumbasses. They should be reprimanded and fined accordingly for unsportsmanlike conduct. Complete bullshit driving, with no need for it. On the same token though, even though it was retaliation, Kline should also be reprimanded.

I was going to post the same thing. I mean you go over to srtforums.com and you see there all morons, so that has to tell you something. I was so happy once Kline rammed the the SRT ( I think driver's name was Fernandez).

The CTS flipping over was crazy, that car is so huge and it looked very scary when it started to flip over. But it was great to see the z28 get the podeium :)

I do not support any of the drivers involved.

Well - I know I'm taking what you wrote out of context - but that CTS-V driver in the first incident I would have cried for - nothing he could have done - and I'm sure he gets the bill for the most expensive totally not his fault accident in that race! Those things aren't cheap!

And you guys are right on TC - I'm sure he'd agree - but I know we were all grinning yelling "get 'em" at home watching today...

TC lives near here, and I have sat around with him a couple of times - he said he would rather lift at the end of a race rather than coming in 3rd - he didn't want to pay for the teardown for a lousy 3rd place trophy. I'm sure that didn't factor in (the race had a while to go before the incident). The man can drive the snot out of a car!

anyone have a vid online ?

that was weak sauce

Well - I know I'm taking what you wrote out of context - but that CTS-V driver in the first incident I would have cried for - nothing he could have done - and I'm sure he gets the bill for the most expensive totally not his fault accident in that race! Those things aren't cheap!


I would have too, but I don't think you understand what I mean. I meant I do not support any of the drivers who were causing the incidents.

It was like watching NASCAR. I do not support any of the drivers involved. Everyone who has raced has been pushed off or tapped out sometime in their careers. I know I have been punted off a track before, but you HAVE to look the other way. I thought it was amusing to see Kline just full out punt the guy, and I did laugh. However, if Kline had handled it differently, he would have likely been on the podium, got some cash, and had a pretty good day. Instead, he let his emotions get to him and you saw the result.

I thought the two Neon drivers in question are complete dumbasses. They should be reprimanded and fined accordingly for unsportsmanlike conduct. Complete bullshit driving, with no need for it. On the same token though, even though it was retaliation, Kline should also be reprimanded.

That little neon would have whooped TC's arse in a clean race. Emotions got the best of both those guys, not just the neon driver (Fernandez). If TC honeslty thought he could have taken the neon, he wouldn't have rammed him. He knew that little neon was a lot faster, and he didn't want to let him win, so he took him out when he had the chance.

The first neon taking out that CTS really sucked. Very irresponsible, especially that early in the race. I sure didn't expect that caddy to roll like that.

Overall, it was an exciting race and I think that the outcome was deserving for all those guys except for the poor caddy that got rolled early on.

I would have too, but I don't think you understand what I mean. I meant I do not support any of the drivers who were causing the incidents.

I know what you meant to say -- but you said you did not support any drivers involved in the incidents. The CTS-Vs were involved (probably to the tune of 40 grand involved), but we all do support them. Just clarifying that they were truly innocent victims of the "Neon Haze".

I have to say that the difference between the neon and the 350Z was evident when Fernandez tried to close the door on TC going into the keyhole, lost a lot of ground as he tried to control the spin/slide, then STILL out-pulled TC to the end of the back straight!!

I haven't seen this race in question but I'll try to find it with my Tivo.

I'm a little turned off by all the relentless contact and obviously poor driving (I watched T1, FM, FA races). I know that SCCA is closer to pro racing than what I'm doing but I'll race under a 13/13 rule thank you very much.

Heck, I think it's the only runoff race worth watching. Most of them were pretty boring.

I'm a little turned off by all the relentless contact and obviously poor driving (I watched T1, FM, FA races). I know that SCCA is closer to pro racing than what I'm doing but I'll race under a 13/13 rule thank you very much.

It's possible to race close and touch without creating contact meant to take another driver out of a race. 13/13 is fun, but being able to race a little closer is even more fun.

It's possible to race close and touch without creating contact meant to take another driver out of a race. 13/13 is fun, but being able to race a little closer is even more fun.

But it would seem either it's 13/13 or full punting SCCA style racing. I'll admit, if I had unlimited budget I might be interested in mixing it up a little bit. However for my needs, I'll give up a position or two if it means I get to keep the car straight and race another day.

Krisko, I think you'll fit into the BMW CCA CR crowd nicely thank you very much! :)

Krisko, I think you'll fit into the BMW CCA CR crowd nicely thank you very much! :)

I will not give up a position or two to YOU if it comes to it...we're going to the mat buddy!

But it would seem either it's 13/13 or full punting SCCA style racing.

The "full punting style" you reference only seems to occur at the big events...ARRC's and Run-Offs. Even then, for the most part, you know who you can race close and clean and those who don't race clean.

It's a little unfair to paint SCCA racing with that brush if you haven't participated in it. I've seen a lot more contact on a few NASA weekends I've spectated than at any SCCA weekend I can think of, but you seem to enjoy competing there.

I, for one, love racing close and clean...but I have no problems dialing it back a bit on CCA weekends. I've never had contact, hell, I've never even driven off the track, during a CCA sanctioned weekend.

You're right, I have no experience with SCCA...I'm just passing along what I see at the run offs and what people have said (these people have defected to NASA so they probably aren't fans of SCCA for many reasons). I'd like to give SCCA a shot but there's no place for my car so I'll just stick with pboc/nasa/cca.

That was an interesting race. I have watched the Runoffs for a couple of years and have never seen so much carnage. Shame to see such nice cars get all bent up.

Those are just stock cars with cages right? No limiters or restrictors? If so, that really good advertising for Dodge. Those Neons were hauling.

Does anyone have pics of the CTS-V. I have never seen a car flip like that. It was like a movie.

That was an interesting race. I have watched the Runoffs for a couple of years and have never seen so much carnage. Shame to see such nice cars get all bent up.

Those are just stock cars with cages right? No limiters or restrictors? If so, that really good advertising for Dodge. Those Neons were hauling.




preety sure the CTS-V had some weight put in it.

I liked the part about the rear headrests in the CTS-V. Funny stuff!

i made a thread about this race today, saw it lastnight thought it was new. anyways here is a camphone pic that i took last night.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/toopercentmlk/sccanationalchampianshipsctsvownage.jpg
another
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/toopercentmlk/sccanationalchampianshipsctsvownage1.jpg
the srt4 driver's actions when he overshot the turn were those of an immature macho 17 yr/o

If anyone still cares, I was just checking the SCCA website and found out that TC Kline was given a 1-position penalty for "driving" (read "hitting") and the Neon driver was given a 2-position penalty...

http://ww2.scca.com/clubresults.php?ID=199

I spoke with TC last week when he dropped by the shop. I asked about the punt during the run-offs. He said the guy just plain deserved it (I'd agree). TC was very cool with SCCA after the race and only asked that the other driver recieve a more severe penalty than his. I guess it was twice as harsh.

-Sean

I spoke with TC last week when he dropped by the shop. I asked about the punt during the run-offs. He said the guy just plain deserved it (I'd agree). TC was very cool with SCCA after the race and only asked that the other driver recieve a more severe penalty than his. I guess it was twice as harsh.

-Sean

I think that TC was being a sore loser. He knew he wasn't a match for the neon. If Fernandez (red neon) had to do it over again, I bet he would have waited a little bit an blown back by TC Kline cleanly and with ease. TC punted the neon because he didn't want the neon to win. It's that simple. Everyone does irrational things when the adrenalin is flowing.

Who would have thought that caddy would flip as easily as it did?!? Yes, bad move on the part of the neon (blue/white). I doubt he "wanted" to smack another car that early on. Things happen so quickly out there.

It's funny how the SCCA Runoffs so quickly become a smash-em-up derby. By far some of the best racing I've watched in a long time. It's almost like watching rally cars race side by side. :evil2

The guy royally screwed up. It was his poor driving let TC get by. Instead of collecting himself and getting the time back (his car was obviously fast on the straights), he chose to play bumper cars and make TC pay for his error. Should TC have taken him out? No, but I understand why he made the decision. I wouldn't call it great racing - great entertainment maybe.

Yes, bad move on the part of the neon (blue/white). I doubt he "wanted" to smack another car that early on. Things happen so quickly out there.

From what I read of the Neon driver's side of the story, he said he got tapped by the other CTS-V in that corner and that's why he went off, so he stayed in it and got back on the track.

My guess is he went to return the favor not realizing he was going after the other CTS-V.

cheers,
scott