"The 2005 schedule welcomes three new events to the Champ Car World Series. Edmonton, Alberta, Canada will host its first Champ Car race on July 17, running on a temporary airport course similar to the one used for the Champ Car Grand Prix of Cleveland."

I cannot wait. I was planned to go to the Vancouver one a few years ago, but that fell thru. I will be taking a few days off for this. I haven't followed CART too closely since FORD has powered all the cars, but I will go for this one!!

CART New Race (http://www.champcarworldseries.com/News/Article.asp?ID=8500)

Hope it doesn't snow, JK. Should be fun for the area and let some new fans see the excitement.

Hopefully fans show up... I was at Laguna Seca for Champ Car, lowest attendance I've
ever seen. Looked like better attendance for ALMS/SWC than Champ Car.


...

That sucks. I was a big fan until a couple of years ago. The whole IRL/Champ car split ruined it for everyone. Tony George can suck my C*CK.

I went to Road America for the 1998 race, and the place was packed.

Kudos to the new owners for trying to make Champ Cars work.

That sucks. I was a big fan until a couple of years ago. The whole IRL/Champ car split ruined it for everyone. Tony George can suck my C*CK.
Kudos to the new owners for trying to make Champ Cars work.

I agree. It would be better with one open wheel circuit. There just isn't enough fans, sponsors and TV coverage to make two series work.

I like Champ Car, don't get me wrong, but it is doomed as a series. Now that IRL is introducing road and street circuits, they will obtain more and more every year. More and more Champ car teams will migrate to IRL until there's nothing left. I mean, come on, Champ Car doen't even broadcast on a Sports,or Auto network, They are on Spike TV..... We will have one open whel series in America soon. It will be badass, trust me, IRL will have more road and srteet circuits every year..

We will have one open whel series in America soon. It will be badass, trust me, IRL will have more road and srteet circuits every year..

And anyone who is a loyal American open wheel race fan will not support or watch the IRL in any way. I swear to god if I ever meet Tony George face to face I am going to knock him on his ass. It would be well worth the misdemeanor assault charge!

Funny, the way I see it, the IRL is the one that's doomed. They've whored themselves out to the engine manufacturers - Chevy, Toyota, and Honda, with their engine leases.

Chevy has already announced their pullout at the end of '05. Toyota's contract ends after '06, I believe, and everyone knows they really want to be in NASCAR (they already have a truck prgram so it's just a matter of time).

Historically, where Toyota goes, so does Honda.

Both Toyota and Honda are already complaining about the cost of running in the IRL and the lack of spectators/TV audiences (ROI).

No one cares about open wheel cars on ovals anymore - it's NASCAR's domain now. THAT's why the IRL wants to go road racing.

Tony George is turning the IRL into all the things he always said were wrong about CART. Which means he was lying - he only wanted control.

Here's the kicker - Kevin Kahlkoven (who owns Champ Car - formerly CART) just bought Cosworth - the manufacturer of all the Ford engines that are used in CART - thereby guaranteeing Champ Car competitive, equal motors, without having to kneel down before the big engine manufacturers.

I ask again, who's doomed?

The sad part is that the series that races at Indianapolis is the only series that will survive. TV money drives these series and only Indianapolis generates any serious ratings and ad revenue.

The sad part is that the series that races at Indianapolis is the only series that will survive. TV money drives these series and only Indianapolis generates any serious ratings and ad revenue.

Not necessarily true. Indy 500 ratings are off almost 50% from what they were in 1995, the year of the Split. The IRL is in danger of losing many races being telecast on ABC over the air, with most being sent to ESPN and ESPN2. If the Indy ratings continue to fall, expect the 500 to be the only IRL race on network TV.

This doesn't make sponsors happy. And when sponsors leave, teams dry up and blow away. Also, sponsors disappearing makes TV money go away as well.

Meanwhile, rumors are that Champ Car is going to announce a new TV deal soon. Should be interesting.

Here's the bottom line. The IRL's run by a guy who inherited his money, and likes to hire lackeys and yes-men. Champ Car is owned by self-made millionaire businessmen, who excel in putting people in place that make good decisions, which in turn make the owners more millions.

Which would you side with for a victory?

I am not trying to be a Tony G. apologist. I think some of the best open wheel drivers are in Champ cars. However down the 500 ratings are, they are still way higher than any other race in both series. And TV ad revenue is still strong, the 500 is a big fish in a small pond. It is the only reason Tony G. has survived as long as he has.

You're 100% correct.

But for how much longer?

When Toyota and Honda leave, what do you think will happen to all of the IRL teams (Penske, Andretti, Rahal, Ganassi, etc., etc) who followed the yen to the IRL?

When the teat's gone, the babies die unless they've been weaned.

Are you aware the IRL is now considering a return to production-based engines? Why do you suppose this is? http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/indycar/14035/

(scroll all the way down on the link.....SPEED's website sux...or my browser does.)

Two years is a looonnnggggg time in motor sports. Somebody will step-up and sponsor an engine package or some other arrangement will be reached.

Right or wrong, like it or not, as long as Tony George owns the Indianapolis 500 he will continue to be the 800 lbs gorilla, and it is sad. Guys like Roger Penske will roll over due to sponsor pressure to race in "his" series because sponsors want to be associated with winning the "Greatest Spectacle in Motor Sports".

Sponsors are not why Penske left...do your homework.

I agree with many of the things halfshaft says. Fact is BOTH series were run poorly, so if you're going to point a finger at Tony George be sure to point your other nine at Andrew Craig.

Yep. TG f*cked it up by taking his ball an going home, and CART management f*cked it up by not swallowing their pride and allowing him to have some control over the destiny of the Indy 500 - his inheritance, birthright...whatever.

Vitolo, why do you think Penske left for the IRL? My understanding was that the seeds were sewn when he ran his first post-split IRL Indy 500, and wasn't allowed to have Marlboro logos on the car, because the rules said tobacco advertising was restricted to one series - and Penske ran the full season in CART that year with Marlboro logos.....word is than didn't go over to well in the PM boardroom and Penske was "asked" to run solely in the IRL.

I've heard other theories, but that one always made the most sense.

Two years is a looonnnggggg time in motor sports. Somebody will step-up and sponsor an engine package or some other arrangement will be reached.

Yes, assuming you have an event (the Indy 500) and a series (the IRL) worth supporting; that a manufacturer can financially justify the massive expenditure of an engine program.

The worse the ratings get, the less likely that is to happen.

I think it's more likely they'll go to a production-based engine and they'll allow private rebuilds. That's the bet they have to make, and if they do it, the big engine manufacturers will run away. It's going to be their death blow.

Once again, they're going to mismanage it - drive away the manufacturers, and the big money's going to go away too. Then the teams that are propped up by the big money will go elsewhere. Then the league will cease to be.