This year I've been towing my Scirocco on a dolly with my Forester. The dolly has no brakes, and the total weight is about 2400 lbs, which is right at the max towing capacity of the Forester.

Next year, I'm going to have an open deck trailer and towing a car of ~3000 lbs. Somewhere around 4200-4400 lbs total. I've been looking at a Hemi Durango pretty hard but another possibility has come up that would be a whole lot more economical. Apparently the 05 Jeep Liberty Diesel is going to have 295 lb/ft of torque and a 5000 lb towing capacity. Anyway, next year I'll probably be towing to places like Michigan, Indiana, Kansas, etc. Is this enough capacity to do it with? The only concerns I ever had towing with the Forester were general wear & tear and brakes. The trailer I'm getting will have brakes on both axles, and I understand the frame of the liberty to be pretty beefy.

So, thoughts? The first two things that popped into my head were overall vehicle weight and wheelbase. The tongue weight capacity is 750 lbs, which seems to say that the frame can take it easily. The Durango would probably be more stout, but when it will also serve as an everyday car, 28 mpg is hard to ignore. Any experience is appreciated.

When it comes to towing, I've always been a "more is just enough" type guy. The wheelbase and "size" of the Liberty leaves a LOT to be desired when towing a trailer...you'll get pushed and pulled all over the road. Add your tools and other misc. equipment and you'll be pushing or exceeding the towing capacity as well.

That said, I know folks who get away with pulling cars long distances with standard SUV's, but given a choice, I'd rather not share the road with them though. 98% of the time, you'll be fine...it's the extreme circumstances during the other 2% of the time when you might endanger your own life and the lives of those who share the road with you by not having a more capable tow vehicle.

This is coming from a guy who practices what he preaches. I drive a pickup everyday because I don't have the room or $$ for another vehicle. As a result I paid more for gas last year than for rent, but it was worth it every time I towed to the track.

The trailer I'm getting will have brakes on both axles, and I understand the frame of the liberty to be pretty beefy.

So, thoughts? The first two things that popped into my head were overall vehicle weight and wheelbase. The tongue weight capacity is 750 lbs, which seems to say that the frame can take it easily. The Durango would probably be more stout, but when it will also serve as an everyday car, 28 mpg is hard to ignore. Any experience is appreciated.

Thoughts:

1) I believe the Liberty doesn't have a "frame" - like the other Jeeps it has a unit body construction.

2) Wheelbase and track have a lot to do with towing stability - the Liberty is difficient in both. Jeeps also have crappy brakes - so the trailer will need to do more of the braking in a panic situation.

3) You want to have a reasonable factor of safety in towing - usually 80% or better, meaning you only want to tow (including all cargo and gear) up to 80% of the tow vehicle's max towing capacity. A steel trailer and E36 (don't know the weight of the sirocco) with all trailers and tools end up around 5500#-6000#, way too much for the Liberty.

I think you should at least look at an aluminum trailer to get the total weight down, and then look at as big a tow vehicle as you can live with. I got the 3/4 ton Yukon XL with an 8-liter engine and you can't even feel an open trailer. But 10 mpg as a daily driver sucks the big one if you know what I mean... It's all part of the equation!

More is better, if you are looking at diesels anyway, you should seriously consider a diesel pickup from any of the big 3. I drove and tested them all and have friends with chevy and ford, I got the Dodge and, as an example, towing from San Fran to Topeka, I averaged about 15-16mpg, and never went below 75mph the whole way. got 13.8 for about 2 hours at 90mph (cruise control, showing 20lbs of boost) in wyoming. Never gonna get that kinda mileage, longevity or resale out of a gas rig.

Dodge has the biggest brakes in the class, as well as rack and pinion steering in the 2wd models. Also has the tigtest turning radius which makes them a nicer daily, IMO.

I got the 3/4 ton Yukon XL with an 8-liter engine and you can't even feel an open trailer. But 10 mpg as a daily driver sucks the big one if you know what I mean... It's all part of the equation!

Mike, which rear-end gearing did you get?

I'm actually looking at 8.1 liter 3/4 ton suburbans/yukons right now and was curious about gas mileage since the manufacturers dont rate the economy of the 3/4 ton trucks. I'm probably going to get the 3.73 rear end just to save a little bit of gas and figured it might be better as a "daily driver" (vs the 4.10 gearing). With the 3.73, they are rated right around 10k lbs, would that handle an enclosed trailer (not a huge one) and an e36 m3?

thanks for the info!!

David

Liberty, not so much. Durango, should not be a problem until you realize that you may want three sets of wheels and tires at the track. If you can buy an open trailer with a wheel rack and then get your durango.
Something else that people often overlook with wagons and SUV's, the number one cause of fatility in accidents involving these two types of vehicles is loose objects (projectiles). Please if you are going to load one of these open compartments vehicles up, secure the items. I promise you a light fender bender involving a fast stop will hurt a whole lot more when a 30 pound wheel and tire clock you in the back of the head.

I am in the same boat as Brian, I drive a the tow veihcle in my signature every day because of the cost of owning another car.
Something that I have done is rent out my truck and trailer to another racer friend who runs in SCCA. Our weekends do not overlap and I can recoup some of my costs each month which really helps on the costs of diesel (being as it has mysteriously risen 40 cents per gallon across the country).

My final thought, spend the extra 200-300 bucks for a newer and nicer trailer, it is worth it. Make sure you have eletric brakes on ATLEAST one of the axles, both would be better. Don't forget to install a trailer brake bias controller in your tow vehicle.

jon

Mike, which rear-end gearing did you get?

I'm actually looking at 8.1 liter 3/4 ton suburbans/yukons right now and was curious about gas mileage since the manufacturers dont rate the economy of the 3/4 ton trucks. I'm probably going to get the 3.73 rear end just to save a little bit of gas and figured it might be better as a "daily driver" (vs the 4.10 gearing). With the 3.73, they are rated right around 10k lbs, would that handle an enclosed trailer (not a huge one) and an e36 m3?

thanks for the info!!

David

I got the full monty - 4.10 rear end with autoride (active load leveling). I tow a 28' enclosed trailer just fine with it. If you've got a smaller trailer or an open trailer you may not need the 12,000# load rating that my truck has but I knew that I was going to be up around 9000# fully loaded so I wanted the above mentioned factor of safety....

By the way - the brakes on this truck are GREAT! But I only get 10 mpg around town and 5-6 mpg towing. DOH!

But I only get 10 mpg around town and 5-6 mpg towing. DOH!
:eek: :eyecrazy :eek: :eyecrazy

hello gas pumps!! i guess its a good thing the 3/4 yukons/suburbans have a 37 gallon tank ;)

thanks for the input!!

That's why I just got a 97 318ic for my daily driver... At 30+ mpg the car basically pays for itself in gas savings!

-Mike

Just as the others have said here, staying within the stated towing capacity doesn't really tell the whole story. I think the Liberty would be a bad choice...maybe OK for towing ski-doos or something, but not very proficient at handling an open trailer and a car of any weight.

I started towing this year with a 1/2 ton dodge ram ('99, 5.9L gas), an open trailer (approx 1500 lbs), and an e30 325 (2600-2700 lbs) race car. Theoretically, I was towing 4000 lbs. or maybe a bit more at times. I also towed my Maserati Spyder at times (closer to 4000 lbs.).

The truck did fine with either load but it had to work to do it. If you live in flat lands, then a 1/2 truck is certainly adequate. Even though the tow rating is something like 7700 lbs. for the Dodge, it really had to get at it to go up hills and to get back up to speed when someone slow gets in front of you on the highway. I was towing well under the stated tow capacity and the truck did fine but not outstanding.

I got more into this racing deal and bought an e36 M3 to race, a 28' enclosed trailer, and then got a real tow vehicle, a 2004 Ford F350 Diesel Dually, crew cab, long bed, monster. I'm now towing as much as 12,000 lbs. now with all my stuff (I mean more stuff than I need but I bring it anyway). This truck does awesome but I'm near the limit for conventional (non-5th wheel) towing and the only time is really as to work is uphill and that's usually a breeze.

Towing with a more than adequate vehicle is more important than I realized at first. It makes the trips much easier and now I kind of like towing versus dreading it before.

If you're going to tow a car on an enclosed trailer, you'd be OK with any 1/2 ton pickup (except old old ones), any SUV with tow capacities, engines, frames, etc. based on or similar to those 1/2 pickups...

But I'd say that trying to make do with a smaller SUV will not be your best bet.

Good luck,

Marc

MP, IP #469

the hemi durango or hemi grand cherokee would be good. i've had my hemi ram a few weeks now, driving it to work everyday and into the city (seattle) on bar/club nights. street parking in the city has suprisingly not been a problem. but i couldn't get into the parking garage of one of our semi-urban malls. while driving next to a grand cherokee and being able to see the roof, and remembering the mall incident, i wished on occassions that i would have gotten the smaller suv.

however, i hauled some vaders for a guy to look one day, hauled a bunch of junk to the dump the other day, and am helping a friend move this week, and i gotta tell yah, nothing can beat the utility of a truck for this kind of stuff.

i'm only seeing 10-11mpg total driving to work in my new (700mi) ram 1500 qc "hemi sport", but guys are seeing 13-14 once it's broken in. i'm hoping so! :) otherwise, i may have to pull the 944 turbo out - that would be an econobox in comparison. :D

I have a Ford F350 Crew Cab Dually Diesel(for sale, by the way ;) ). I get 13mpg while not towing and 10.5 mpg towing a total vehicle package of 23k pounds.

Buttom line is buy FAR more truck than you need! In fact, buy mine!!

I have such limited experience in this I should keep my mouth shut... but it would seem to me any of the turbo-diesel trucks is the way to go, and the best out of the bunch seems to be the Dodge. I've driven Erik's truck on a number of occasions, and also his partner Gordon's diesel Ford Excursion, and just in casual driving, the Dodge is far and above the Excursion in every aspect. The brakes on that truck are phenomenal... it takes no effort to make the transition between small car and huge dodge truck. The Ford was a big on the frightening side... the mother didn't want to stop in any short order, even while empty.

Diesel in the way to tow, I'd say.

I have always been partial to a 5.9l Durango, though... :D

Steve

The Ford was a big on the frightening side... the mother didn't want to stop in any short order, even while empty.

Diesel in the way to tow, I'd say.
Steve

That's weird! I have never had a problem with my Ford's brakes! They are very, very good. Maybe the Dodge's are just better - which would be great!

Have you had any issues w/ your 6.0L?

What's the next tow vehicle?


I have a Ford F350 Crew Cab Dually Diesel(for sale, by the way ;) ). I get 13mpg while not towing and 10.5 mpg towing a total vehicle package of 23k pounds.

Buttom line is buy FAR more truck than you need! In fact, buy mine!!

screw it just get a viper truck and autocross that...

http://www.truckworld.com/Truck-Tests/04-Dodge_SRT10/SRT10-Web-14.jpg

or the henessey one. 11 second gas truck! :)

http://www.hennesseyperformance.com/hennesseyperformance/images/Pic3.php?id=106

2004 & Up Ram SRT10 Venom 800 Twin Turbo Upgrade
Power Output:
800 hp @ 5,200 rpm
900 lb-ft Torque @ 3800 rpm

Acceleration:
0-60: 3.8 sec.
1/4 mile: 11.5 sec. @ 125 mph

or the 05 quab cab viper truck... it can tow! :eek:
http://trucks.about.com/library/graphics/05_srt10_quad_side.jpg

Have you had any issues w/ your 6.0L?

What's the next tow vehicle?

I don't have a 6.0L. I have one of the last 7.3L. I wouldn't buy a 6.0L. I have had nothing but good luck with my truck! The next tow vehicle is a Renegade with a Three Car Stacker Trailer!!!!! It will debut at California Speedway this weekend.

I don't have a 6.0L. I have one of the last 7.3L. I wouldn't buy a 6.0L. I have had nothing but good luck with my truck! The next tow vehicle is a Renegade with a Three Car Stacker Trailer!!!!! It will debut at California Speedway this weekend.


holy $hit...3 car stacker! Jon your da man! :eek: