On an early Sunday morning with little traffic around, I saw this Camaro Z28 in my rear view mirror coming rather quickly behind me, we came to a red light and expected him to line up on my left but instead he pulled in behind me. Light turns green, I ease up on the first gear not expecting anything from this Z28 but when looking up the rear mirror I saw the Z28 was just a couple of feet from my rear bumper so I said to myself what the hell... anyway I gave it a little more gas and shift to 2nd with 3/4 way down on the gas pedal. I was approximately 2 c/l ahead, immediately the Z28 follow suit, I can hear the loud exhaust coming from the Z28 switching over the left lane trying to pass me. I waited until he came close to about my rear bumper then punch it before shifting into 3rd to my surprises he gains a few more feet to about my door but no more, and then I am started walking away. I shut down at around 6500 RPM on the 3rd gear approximately 1 c/l ahead of the Z28, he never slow down, I saw him up ahead about 20 seconds later and was going ask him what kind of mod he has (intake and exhaust for sure) but there was also a Cop the area, so I made a turn a took a different route.

Good kill. It sounds like all he can do is keep up...good way to spank a Camaro.

Quick question though, you have a 2001 M Roadster, didn't BMW increase hp in 2002 for the roadster and the coupe to 315 b/c they used the new M3 engine? I am pretty sure that was the case...

2001 & 2002 have S54 the same engine as the M3 except it was rated at 315 hp instead 333 on the M3.

ssr's? that's mean man =]

Yesir, this is the one Bimmer race i have yet to nail down. M5...check, M3....check, M Roadster/Coupe.....nope. I really wanted to get a crack at one of these with a good driver before i modded my car out of their league. I have longtubes and off road Y going on a week from this Sunday, that'll just about do it. Not to say i wont race one if I get the chance, just would loved to have gotten a chance to see what they can do with my car "stock". Anywho, nice run, and about what i would expect. Would have been nice if he had gotten next to you and seen what would have happened in a good ole fashion heads up drag race. :cool

Yesir, this is the one Bimmer race i have yet to nail down. M5...check, M3....check, M Roadster/Coupe.....nope. I really wanted to get a crack at one of these with a good driver before i modded my car out of their league. I have longtubes and off road Y going on a week from this Sunday, that'll just about do it. Not to say i wont race one if I get the chance, just would loved to have gotten a chance to see what they can do with my car "stock". Anywho, nice run, and about what i would expect. Would have been nice if he had gotten next to you and seen what would have happened in a good ole fashion heads up drag race. :cool

Why dont you contact the guy on here that has a S/C M coupe or roadster. I've seen him post a couple times. Theres a modded one thats prob not out of your league.

Yesir, this is the one Bimmer race i have yet to nail down. M5...check, M3....check, M Roadster/Coupe.....nope. I really wanted to get a crack at one of these with a good driver before i modded my car out of their league. I have longtubes and off road Y going on a week from this Sunday, that'll just about do it. Not to say i wont race one if I get the chance, just would loved to have gotten a chance to see what they can do with my car "stock". Anywho, nice run, and about what i would expect. Would have been nice if he had gotten next to you and seen what would have happened in a good ole fashion heads up drag race. :cool
where will next week's mods put you as far as power and the 1/4 mile? i had a look at your sig and saw that you are no faster than an M3. the S54 M Coupe/roadster is lighter and slightly faster. so how do you consider your car out of their league? i'm just a little confused, that's all...

btw, your car stock is a good 300lbs heavier than an 01-02 roadster and slightly less powerful, is it not (granted you have much more torque)? i'm not claiming to know my camaros...correct me if i'm wrong.

My car is right at 3400 lbs. Looking at my track times is not a very good indiction. Rockingham is a notoriously slippery track. Those times are on drag radials. Rwd cars with slicks and skinnies are usually in the 1.7-1.8 range, which is where most cars with drag radials are at a decent track.

S54 motor is rated at ~330 hp. Thats fly hp, my car is 330 rwhp (~380 fly hp). No to mention the torque aspect, where the variance is somewhat greater. Next weekend will see a set of longtubes and ORY installed, that with a revision on my tune should be good for 355-360 rwhp and 360 lb/tq, or ~12.8 @ 112-113 mph. This is still assuming a crappy 2.1 short time. If by some miracle i hooked up, it would be good for mid-12s. All this is the NX wet kit going on at the same time non-widthstanding :evil2 . I have raced many E46 M3s, including some arranged races, and I have never been impressed with their strait line prowess. Ive put multiple car lenghts on them every time, from every speed. This includes a few track races as well. The two at the track were consistantly .3 sec and 3 mph behind me. That is why i would love to fine an M coupe or Roadster, i know they are supposed to be somewhat quicker. Judging from the times I have seen for them, they should be excellent competition at my present level of mods and power. :cool

where will next week's mods put you as far as power and the 1/4 mile? i had a look at your sig and saw that you are no faster than an M3. the S54 M Coupe/roadster is lighter and slightly faster. so how do you consider your car out of their league? i'm just a little confused, that's all...

btw, your car stock is a good 300lbs heavier than an 01-02 roadster and slightly less powerful, is it not (granted you have much more torque)? i'm not claiming to know my camaros...correct me if i'm wrong.


You do know that 330rwhp is higher than 333hp by a preety large margine right?? :confused

You do know that 330rwhp is higher than 333hp by a preety large margine right?? :confused

yeah but then again a 240 hp e36 M3 = 287 hp 350z if not better. to me it's not all about hp ;) there are some other factors also to consider...........just my .02

ps i'm talking about a 1/4 mile race..... :D

Yesir, this is the one Bimmer race i have yet to nail down. M5...check, M3....check, M Roadster/Coupe.....nope.PM'd you :)

PHATNA-Z i am just wondering have you ever raced an M-Powered car with drag radials on it

your car is pure sex, nice kill

so you are saynig since you have 330rwhp and an S54 M3 has 333crank hp that makes you automatically faster?


Thats a flawed way to look at it. Take for an example a 98 Cobra SVT vs 98 e36 M3, M3 has 240 crank hp, cobra has slightly above 300 if im not mistaken, yet very close if not pretty much same 1/4 mile times. A good driver can get an s54 M3 to low 13s, I am not sure about this, but didnt someone pull off a 12.8 or 12.9 in pretty much stock s54 M3?

so you are saynig since you have 330rwhp and an S54 M3 has 333crank hp that makes you automatically faster?


Thats a flawed way to look at it. Take for an example a 98 Cobra SVT vs 98 e36 M3, M3 has 240 crank hp, cobra has slightly above 300 if im not mistaken, yet very close if not pretty much same 1/4 mile times. A good driver can get an s54 M3 to low 13s, I am not sure about this, but didnt someone pull off a 12.8 or 12.9 in pretty much stock s54 M3?

San diegans think alike see post # 10 :evil2

so you are saynig since you have 330rwhp and an S54 M3 has 333crank hp that makes you automatically faster?


Thats a flawed way to look at it. Take for an example a 98 Cobra SVT vs 98 e36 M3, M3 has 240 crank hp, cobra has slightly above 300 if im not mistaken, yet very close if not pretty much same 1/4 mile times. A good driver can get an s54 M3 to low 13s, I am not sure about this, but didnt someone pull off a 12.8 or 12.9 in pretty much stock s54 M3?

No, not at all. I know better. There are many other aspects to consider, gearing, weight, aerodynamics, torque, driver skill (big one here), tires, condition of each car, atmospheric conditions, altitude, etc etc etc. But what i am saying is that i think considering my superior hp/tq figures, the Bimmers lighter wieight and superior gearing and aerodynamics, all things considered they would be a really good run for me. I never said Id beat one, but i guarantee you it will be a damn close race. No i have never raced a bimmer of any sort with drag radials. Heck, I cant say where as ive ever seen a bimmer with drags on it. My puropose here is not to start a big war over some bench racing, but suffice to say my hp and tq figures, along with my 1/4 mile times/traps (crappy short times non-widthstanding) put me very much in the realm of the S54 coupes and roadsters. And that is assuming a very good/expert driver in the Bimmer. :cool

You do know that 330rwhp is higher than 333hp by a preety large margine right?? :confused
yes i do realize that...but if that's the case, then why is he only running a 13.2 with 330hp/345 torque to the wheels (granted he said he should be in the high 12's on a not-so-slippery track)? an e46 M3 does that stock (13 flat if the driver knows what he or she is doing). keep in mind as well that the M3 has only approximately 270rwhp stock (and way less torque than the Z28). i would the venture to guess that weight has something to do with it, but they weigh approximately the same 3400lbs. how does one explain that? like i said before, i was just a little confused about this...

it just seems that power, torque, and weight would be the main factors involved (seeing as how neither are F/I, atmospheric conditions, temperature, and things of that nature would have less to do with it). with so much more power/torque to the wheels (and weighing about the same), it just seems that the Z28 would be significantly faster. are the gearing of the two cars drastically different?

btw phatna, you're probably going to teach some M drivers a thing or two about humility once you get those mods on next week :redspot .

yes i do realize that...but if that's the case, then why is he only running a 13.2 with 330hp/345 torque to the wheels (granted he said he should be in the high 12's on a not-so-slippery track)? an e46 M3 does that stock (13 flat if the driver knows what he or she is doing). keep in mind as well that the M3 has only approximately 270rwhp stock (and way less torque than the Z28). i would the venture to guess that weight has something to do with it, but they weigh approximately the same 3400lbs. how does one explain that? like i said before, i was just a little confused about this...

it just seems that power, torque, and weight would be the main factors involved (seeing as how neither are F/I, atmospheric conditions, temperature, and things of that nature would have less to do with it). with so much more power/torque to the wheels (and weighing about the same), it just seems that the Z28 would be significantly faster. are the gearing of the two cars drastically different?

btw phatna, you're probably going to teach some M drivers a thing or two about humility once you get those mods on next week :redspot .

Gearing is a big deficite to the Fbodies, especially stock. Now mine has 3.73 gears so that helps some. To me, bimmers of all sorts are a bit faster than what they should be "on paper". Thats one of the cool things about the cars. But my car is right on the curve for an Fbody with the mods I have and the times Im running (of course taking into account the 2.1 short time). Some do better, some worse, but mine is a pretty good representative example.

And yes, the new mods will put me in a whole new category (speaking of the spray here) and the headers will certainly be a healthy bump. We have a few FI bimmers trolling the streets of Charlotte, I'll be looking for them. :evil2

Gearing is a big deficite to the Fbodies, especially stock. Now mine has 3.73 gears so that helps some. To me, bimmers of all sorts are a bit faster than what they should be "on paper". Thats one of the cool things about the cars. But my car is right on the curve for an Fbody with the mods I have and the times Im running (of course taking into account the 2.1 short time). Some do better, some worse, but mine is a pretty good representative example.

And yes, the new mods will put me in a whole new category (speaking of the spray here) and the headers will certainly be a healthy bump. We have a few FI bimmers trolling the streets of Charlotte, I'll be looking for them. :evil2

I think you have an awesome camaro man. From the sound of all this and given your driving ability I have no problem believing you are faster than a new M3. I had an 00 camaro, but never hooked it up at all, it was only the V6 though :( . Anyway I love my bimmer, but more then believe and respect your awesome camaro. Just thought I'd say my feelings on this. By the way your car is gunna be insane after your mods, have some fun with that stuff. I'm planning on F/I in about a year, with probably headers among my current mods.

I think you have an awesome camaro man. From the sound of all this and given your driving ability I have no problem believing you are faster than a new M3. I had an 00 camaro, but never hooked it up at all, it was only the V6 though :( . Anyway I love my bimmer, but more then believe and respect your awesome camaro. Just thought I'd say my feelings on this. By the way your car is gunna be insane after your mods, have some fun with that stuff. I'm planning on F/I in about a year, with probably headers among my current mods.

As i was just dicussing with Scott (Mdex) last night, bimmers like boost too much to ignore the fact. To me, bang for the buck, thats the way to go. Bolt ons just dont do enough for these cars to seem worth the cost, at least to me. Considering you can easily spend more on a full bolton, head and cam S52 car than youd spend on a nice blower or turbo setup, and the power from each is not even comparable. Boost all the way. :cool

BTW, thanks for the complements. Knowing how to drive your car properly will win you more races than all the horespower in the world.

W@W you beat a z-28....Impressive for a bimmer. :eek:

Hell the rags got an s54 Mroadster into the 12's

Hell the rags got an s54 Mroadster into the 12's

Likewise stock LS1 F bodies. But i guarantee you it dont happen much in real life. Very very seldom. I know a lot of guys with F bodies, and I have yet to meet one that ran a verifyable 12 sec et stock. Same with bimmers, of any sort (Mcoupe, Roadster, M3, M5 etc). Some came DAMN close, like 13.0s and 13.1s, but alas no 12's.

Dude come on go look it up. Noone on these boards beside dave has a REAL clue on drag racing.

Dude come on go look it up. Noone on these boards beside dave has a REAL clue on drag racing.www.corvetteforum.com has alot of drag race enthuisists! :evil2

Dude come on go look it up. Noone on these boards beside dave has a REAL clue on drag racing.

Brougham, I know you arent sitting here telling me M Coupes/Roadsters are any sort of consistant 12 sec car? I mean it would be just as ridiculous for me to say that just because a few LS1 Fbodies go into the 12s stock that they run that on a regular basis. Simply not true, on either front. I respect Dave's knowledge and experiance as much as anyone, and if he were on the board right now (which i have been told he will not be for a short while) I feel certain he would not step up and say that M coupes/Roadsters are consistant 12 sec cars. Now, with him driving one thats a "ringer", at his home track (Atco i belive, or was it E-town, cant remeber) both of which are among the fastest tracks in the country, yeah he could see 12s. But then, Im certain he could take that same "factory ringer" Fbody and do the same.

Noone on these boards beside dave has a REAL clue on drag racing.You certainly don't have that expectation, do you? :confused

You certainly don't have that expectation, do you? :confused

I wouldnt consider myself an expert by any means, but I know my way around the 1320. I know what it takes to make a car get down it in a hurry, and i know what'll keep one from getting down it in a hurry too. I mean hell, for once Im gonna turn this "twisties" thing around. I own an Fbody, which every one knows "cant handle for sh*t", so obviously I have to have an area of expertise for my car, so it must be that polar opposite of BMWs, good old fashioned strait line get up and go. :cool

(Scott, this post wasnt directed at you necessarily, just used your quote)

nice kill

Brougham, I know you arent sitting here telling me M Coupes/Roadsters are any sort of consistant 12 sec car? I mean it would be just as ridiculous for me to say that just because a few LS1 Fbodies go into the 12s stock that they run that on a regular basis. Simply not true, on either front. I respect Dave's knowledge and experiance as much as anyone, and if he were on the board right now (which i have been told he will not be for a short while) I feel certain he would not step up and say that M coupes/Roadsters are consistant 12 sec cars. Now, with him driving one thats a "ringer", at his home track (Atco i belive, or was it E-town, cant remeber) both of which are among the fastest tracks in the country, yeah he could see 12s. But then, Im certain he could take that same "factory ringer" Fbody and do the same.

Curious whether anyone has got a stock Z28 in the MID 12's that you know of? You are referring to the 12.5 that Dave did with stock radials with a S54 M Roadster and it was his first time in the car. Anyway, with the mods you have and given the fact that you seem to have a lot more drag racing experience than the average S54 M Roadster/Coupe driver, I would put my $ on you on such a race.

I heard my name, what are we discussing?

I heard my name, what are we discussing?

Damn, you ARE lazy this AM... :confused

We are discussing drag racing.

1. Just say «if it ain't been run, it ain't been done»
2. Tell folks that Phatna-Z knows more about tuning cars than most of them ever will
3. Tell us how fast you ran a loaner S54 at which track
4. Log off

Damn, you ARE lazy this AM... :confused

We are discussing drag racing.

1. Just say «if it ain't been run, it ain't been done»
2. Tell folks that Phatna-Z knows more about tuning cars than most of them ever will
3. Tell us how fast you ran a loaner S54 at which track
4. Log off


:lol What he said...

(How's THAT for lazy...?) ;)

But you haven't answered ?s 3 & 4

But you haven't answered ?s 3 & 4

Word.

(How's THAT for lazy...?)

That's pretty bad actually.

:stickoutt

oh god... not another Camaro vs. M-anything thread... :az

Someone just sticky the previous 100 threads about this with the "a competant driver (not me) can get mid-12s out of an S54 ///M" comment. ;)

... this post wasnt directed at you necessarily, just used your quote Oh, no problem - I just find it odd that J10B wants to criticize the BF community as a whole when BMWs by and large are not drag racing vehicles, thus, meaning that we don't have many member here who posses drag racing info - it simply isn't our bag :)

Someone just sticky the previous 100 threads about this with the "a competant driver (not me) can get mid-12s out of an S54 ///M" comment. ;)


Just sell me your car...ok? ;)

sure... make me an offer ;)

I'll just say this, an LS1 f-body and S54 Z3 based car = driver's race... I'd give the slight edge to the BMW only cuz it's easier to launch well...

e60 m5 should run 12's

I'll just say this, an LS1 f-body and S54 Z3 based car = driver's race... I'd give the slight edge to the BMW only cuz it's easier to launch well...

As with most such comments from Dave, I absolutly agree.

Adam, I feel 100% that Dave could take a "faster" LS1 fbody, mine included even when it was bone stock, and with a good set of Drag Radials, at Atco or Etown, and put it to mid-12s, consistantly. No question. As Dave said, the only thing holding back the 30-40% of Fbodies that run 13.1-13.2 stock from being in the 12s solid, is TRACTION. 330+ rwtq, 6 spd tranny and street tires takes an expert and some crazy track prep to make things happen. :cool

such is true about atco.

i've seen a few (probably 3 or 4) 01 and 02 ls1s run 12s there, over and over again (2 of which were completely stock low mile cars in 01).

and as far as launching, the auto ls1 with 3.23 rear is a no brainer. My wife wanted to try it and she ran a 12.9 with my 12.7 car. all she did was stomp it and hold on.

at the track by me now in upstate NY, when i went with the camaro, couldn't launch that well and it would break loose at top of 1st, then on the 1-2 shift as well. my 12.7 was a 13.0 on DRs. crappy prep.

Joe

oh and to throw a bit more fuel on the fire...

good drag radials and track prep or some slicks and a converter plus the standard cheapy mods (intake lid, filter and cutout 250$) will get an auto ls1 into the 11s.

oh ya about the 11s, maybe a run or 2 before the rear blows...but a good excuse to get a real one, nice 12 bolt.

If your willing to do proper suspension mods and the right tires to make your car primarily a strait line car, 11s are not hard to get with an LS1 Fbody. Ive seen more than one with bone stock motor, bolt ons, stall, slicks/skinnies, and suspension work go mid-high 11s @ 115-118 mph.

Come on Phanta, you know Im a big LS1, fan. But bolt ons for a ls1 are COMPLETELY different than a BMW anything. :D Saying bone stock motor is jsut gonna make so 16 yo dope go out and think his ls1 f-body can get 11's and get him self killed.

Im out of the BMW business. DONE, Sadly bmw is out of the ultimate driving machine manufactoring business. They took the "cockpit" feel out with the new 3 series. The road feel is already gone. Nowadays is a HP war lead by MB, who by the way just built one of the best V6's ever, and Chevy which is still leading the way with its sick vette. Lets not forget the 19k SRT-4 that may be made of plastic but walks all over your ( not you) americanized bimmer. Of course we have the blower 30k war with EVO and STi.
Brand loyalty and badge buying is the only thing keeping BMWs selling. Friggin 738 ft pds, and 600+ hp on the MB, and its DETUNED by 150 ft because the 5 speed tranny cant handle it. I could go on and on, but its clear to me that one would be better off buying a 2003 z28 ls1 than ANY new BMW, and before you say m5, if you are spending that much $$ buy a damn MB and get 2x the Hp and tq for your dollar.

Thanks Dave. In the end the s54 vs ls1 fbody is a drivers race. Anyone can get any car in the 12s, out of the box you are gonna need a LOT better driver in the fbod than the s54.

Come on Phanta, you know Im a big LS1, fan. But bolt ons for a ls1 are COMPLETELY different than a BMW anything. :D Saying bone stock motor is jsut gonna make so 16 yo dope go out and think his ls1 f-body can get 11's and get him self killed.

Im out of the BMW business. DONE, Sadly bmw is out of the ultimate driving machine manufactoring business. They took the "cockpit" feel out with the new 3 series. The road feel is already gone. Nowadays is a HP war lead by MB, who by the way just built one of the best V6's ever, and Chevy which is still leading the way with its sick vette. Lets not forget the 19k SRT-4 that may be made of plastic but walks all over your ( not you) americanized bimmer. Of course we have the blower 30k war with EVO and STi.
Brand loyalty and badge buying is the only thing keeping BMWs selling. Friggin 738 ft pds, and 600+ hp on the MB, and its DETUNED by 150 ft because the 5 speed tranny cant handle it. I could go on and on, but its clear to me that one would be better off buying a 2003 z28 ls1 than ANY new BMW, and before you say m5, if you are spending that much $$ buy a damn MB and get 2x the Hp and tq for your dollar.

Thanks Dave. In the end the s54 vs ls1 fbody is a drivers race. Anyone can get any car in the 12s, out of the box you are gonna need a LOT better driver in the fbod than the s54.

Interesting take. I agree with you on the bolt-on stuff, whole different game there S52/54 vs LS1. As for the "Americanization" of bimmers, i dont have enough experiance with them, old vs new, to make that call. Any bimmer i get into these days still feels plenty German to me and all that comes with that "feel". Horsepower wars are a good thing as far as Im concernced, but they shouldn't come at the expense of everything else. But your right, bigger/better/faster/more, its the American way. And we buy lots of cars. I dont think its anything going away anytime soon to be honest. Being in this business, I read voraciously about it, and things are only getting faster. Hell when i bought my car, a 13 flat vehicle was all but unstoppable. Now (and in the next 18 mos-2 years) there will be a wealth of not only sports cars, but 4 door "family sedans" that will do that and more. We wont even get into the "fast" cars. The game is changing, mostly for the better, and if you ask me this is the golden age of cars, Im just glad to be in it right now. :evil2 :buttrock

Agree and lets enjoy it before we are done to solar cars with 1320 times in MINUTES, and it starts ALL over again.

Agree and lets enjoy it before we are done to solar cars with 1320 times in MINUTES, and it starts ALL over again.

May I never live to see that day sir. :(