1) I have limited engine building experience
2) I have limited BMW experience
3) I doubt the 2002's stock engine's (m10?) potential (looking for 230+)
4) multi-mfg hybrids are cool
5) bmw motors and turbos are expensive!

all of these are reasons why I am considering going with a non-bimmer powerplant in my 2002. considerations are:
F20C (Honda S2000) with a shortented transaxle and the transmission between my legs
SR20DET (silvia/240) same deal - where to put the tranny....
b20 off a CRV with a vtec head and a turbo (i already know hondas so this would be easier)
or some other normally FF powerplant with yet-to-be-foretold mods to make it fit and drive the rear wheels.


just tossing around ideas - spit some off if you've got / have seen any.
seen anything transverse mounted? Seen any AWD swaps?

1. Biulding an M10 isn't too hard if you have a good manual.
2. See above.
3. The M10 can handle 230 hp but to get it you would have to turbo it or build a racing engine.
4. I'm not a purist but I'd stick with a BMW engine.
5. M20's are fairly cheap and can be modified ot get 230HP and still be streetable.

I don't know what your planning on spending, but there are many options if you have the $$$ to spend. Post this question on http://www.bmw2002faq.com/talkshop/forum/ because it has been discussed a few times. I think the most popular non BMW transplant was using the S2000 engine. The problem with using something that isn't too common is the money it will take to fabricate parts to make it fit. The M20 conversion is fairly popular so there are places that make most the parts needed for the conversion. Also, look for a cheap S14, it bolts in and has almost 200HP stock and 230 is easy to get.

Good Luck.

well thanks that's good info....and re-encouraging

Right now I'm planning on budgeting about $10k for my project 2002. My main goals are to get it on boost, do seats, shocks, wheels, brakes, paint and anything else that comes up. I think I can keep that under $10k doing the work myself.
You're right though..custom fabs are expensive.

What's the price tag on an M20 swap? What about a turbo kit for it? If I can get that done for around 5k I might just stay full-Bavarian.
I never knew the S14 bolted in...I'll have to look into that. I saw some guy (Sport Compact Car this month) put an SR20DET in his Miata...that got me thinking that maybe the miata drivetrain would fit....I know they love boost.

Anyway thanks for the info. I'll check out FAQ.

Also, look for a cheap S14, it bolts in and has almost 200HP stock and 230 is easy to get.


I jsut realized you were talking about a BMW S14...not the "S14" body sylvia....so that rules out the SR20DE
But I like the fact that the S14 is a 4-banger and the out-of-the-box numbers look nice. I"ll keep that in mind
any idea how much one of these would go for? and for a turbo kit?

Looks like these guys sell the s14 and a host of go-fast parts for it.
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/show_category.asp?txtsearchParamCat=Engine#EngineC onversions
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/image/engine/engine_2.5_sm.jpg

They're asking $2200...well within my price range.
Damn I spent $3700 on my honda engine and it only has 180hp!

Looks like I'll stay full-bavarian

EDIT: oops that's not a complete engine, just a performance kit. Still looking for prices....

a well built s14 is about $15k. You can fiind one with the tranny and the ECu with about 125k miles for about $5k. it is a an expencive motor. Some conversions have been done to other motors, but non are as documented as m20 or s14.

steve k.

a well built s14 is about $15k.

ouch - sticker shock. we're not in the land of cheapo honda motors anymore.

Maybe I'll go M20 on boost....might be a cheaper route.

s14 is practically a race motor,thus the sticker. m20s are cheap. youcab get a usedmotor for about $500.that is not a typo. But building a strong reliable motor is never cheap, no matter which brand.

steve k.

s14 is practically a race motor,thus the sticker. m20s are cheap. youcab get a usedmotor for about $500.that is not a typo. But building a strong reliable motor is never cheap, no matter which brand.
steve k.

Thanks - I'm liking the M20 a whole lot better now. I realize a good motor costs some money, but I want to be the one putting the $ into it. I'd rather build an engine for $15k than buy one for $15k if that makes any sense....
Of course I'd much rather build an engine for $5k....

Am I going to be disapointed if I exepect to build and boost an M20 for $5k?

(thanks for your patience guys...I'm learning as I go here)

depends on what you want to get out of a motor. I think stok m20 was about 170hp. I think a stroker kit for it is about $2k. Here is the description from Ireland Engineering site

Turn the 2.5 liter 325i (m20)motor into a 2.9 liter. This is a major performance improvement. Kit includes forged steel crank shaft, light weight forged Pistons, piston rings, high strength wrist pins, and main bearings. You use your factory "i" rods, head, and fuel injection. Pistons are 1mm oversize to allow the block to be bored. We recommend larger injectors and reground cam for best performance. Other upgrades such as free flow air filter, larger air flow meter, larger throttle boby, extrude honed intake, headers and free flow exhaust system will further improve performance.

so i would say that you should be able to get a motor built for $5k to $7k

look up some info on mating that motor to the '02. some funky stuff needs to be with the tranny. i think you can either find a 323 tranny (hard) or get a more common tranny with a differnt belhousing. i don't remember of hand.

good luck,
steve k.

ahhh good info...
In HondaLand stroker kits are taboo (to reliability guys like me) because they mess up what are near perfect rod/stroke ratios and bastardize an engine designed to rev (B16a2 and B18C1/C5). Might not be such a big deal on an early '80s 6-cylinder.

I'd be more inclined to do pistons and rods, sleeve the block and port the I/M....maybe balance the crank....then strap on the snail and see what I get.

I'm fully prepared (and psyched) to gather a mishmash of 3 series and 2002 tranny parts and play Legos until something fits....I might even look into 5-series parts inboard of the half shafts. (do the 525 and 325 have different differentials?)

In other news it's looking like I could have a garage by the end of the year so I may have to graduate to a more realistic outlook on my project....

the m20 swap is documented. there is even a guy who makes batches of motor mounts once in a while. i don;t know about the diffs between 325 and 535. in reality there is only 4 BMW diffs. they just have differetn covers. an e21 320 diff fits into the 2002. that is how most people get the LSD. i think the ring and pinion out of a 4cyl e30 fit into the 2002 or 320 diff. these are direct bolt on options.

steve k.

cool

This guy in Georgia is selling this 2002/M20 combo for $1,200
If I was ready and lived closeby I might jump on something like this...what do you think? Too much rust?

http://www.gabrielzane.com/bmwsforsale.html

I'd say it has too much rust to save but for $1,200 that is a good deal if it comes with the 15" wheels and the M20 engine tranny combo. I would buy it and part it out if I had the cash and room for it. Also do you know if the deal is for both 02's?

it's just for the primer gray one and the wheels actually don't come with it...a shame.
EDIT - oh, you're in Georgia!

Might not be worth the trouble of parting out if the wheels don't come with it.

What year would you say the gray one is? A '78?

I can't tell the exact year but its between a 74 and 76, 76 was the last year of the 2002. It's hard to tell because it's almost completely stripped, but if you can get a VIN I'd be able to tell you.

Also, look for a cheap S14,

i think that is an oxymoron, but if you find some there are plenty of guys in the e21 section that would be interested.
ao

I am new to these 2002s but I think a mildly built turbo 2002 with lsd would be pleanty fast. Just drop the compression on it.

If using a regular 02 you don't need to drop the compression if the engine is built right, stock is 8.5:1.

yeah starting compression is pretty low. Needs sleeves, rods and pistons for sure though (among other things.)

"Plenty Fast" is a relative term. My hybrid civic is 'plenty fast'; but I want more with this project. I'm looking for oompf at the upper end of the streetable range. I want ~230hp and I want most of it early on.

The bottom end on the 2002 is srong and can handle 240hp in stock form. may be a bit more. But we are talking new fresh rebuid with preferable new parts and it can handle even more. The compression is different depending on the year and the model of you 2002/engine/head. You don't need to drop compression if you EFI can handle it. Most of modern cars run 11:1 compressin and a turbo, so your 2002 can handle 9:1 pistons and a turbo. Yes you will need better gas and computerized timing/fuel controll. You won't be able to tell people that you have 30psi of boost, but you will get as much power with less lag.

btw. here is a link to a stock 2002 piston guide http://www.bmw2002faq.com/reference/pistons/pistons.html

good luck,
steve