This writeup is probably major overkill for such a simple fix, but this question gets asked about twice a week so I figure it's time we had one of these. At any rate, the random squeaking noises when turning my steering wheel finally became unbearable. I couldn't really find a good writeup, so I tore into it and here's what I found.


As far as I can tell, there are only three things that can cause this noise. I would check them in this order:

1. Bearing at bottom of steering spindle
2. Bearing at top of steering spindle
3. Steering wheel slip ring

If you take your car to the BMW dealer with this problem, they will replace the slip ring, which will set you back about $300 and probably won't fix the noise... or it may actually seem to fix it for a week or two until it decides to come back. Speaking from experience on this one. :mad Your best bet is to start with number one and work your way down.

Perform any of the following at your own risk. As always, follow basic common-sense safety procedures, especially when it comes to jacking up your car.

So here we go...


Steering Spindle Bearings
http://www.jeffsuovanen.com/calpoly/steering_spindle_upper.jpg

This is what the steering spindle assembly looks like. The lower bearing, number 7 in the diagram, is the most common cause of the squeak. The spindle itself is actually hollow, so even though the lower bearing is down in the engine bay below the firewall, any noise it makes will echo through the steering spindle shaft up into the car's interior. The result is a squeak that sounds like it is coming directly out of the steering wheel.

To lube the lower spindle bearing, you will need the following:

- floor jack and jackstands
- can of Tri-Flow or equivalent penetrating lubricant (NOT WD-40!!)
- three flexible party straws (see pic)
- duct tape
- safety goggles

There's no good way to access the lower bearing, because it sits just below the firewall way up in the engine bay. In order to get to it, you're going to need to use the party straws and duct tape to fabricate about 18 inches of extra tubing attached to the end of the lubricant spray can.

I bought a package of thin party straws with flexible end segments at the local supermarket for $0.58. These work well because the very tip of your 18-inch tube will need to bend slightly in order to get a clear shot at the bearing. Get the thinnest, smallest diameter straws you can find:

http://jeffsuovanen.com/calpoly/steering_straw.jpg

Jack the front of the car up, support with jackstands, and wriggle under there until you see where the steering shaft exits the firewall. It's way up in there, at the top of this thing:

http://www.jeffsuovanen.com/calpoly/steering_lower.jpg

Shake the can of Tri-Flow or other lubricant up REALLY good... You need to build up some pressure in order for it to shoot all the way up there. Attach your extension and manuever it until the tip is pointed right at the steering spindle assembly where it pokes out of the firewall. Then, soak it! (I recommend wearing some safety goggles while you do this... There's a good chance some of this stuff will drip down into your eyes/face.) At this point you may want to turn the steering wheel lock-to-lock just to make sure everything gets coated properly, then spray the bearing down again just to make extra sure.

Once that bearing assembly is good and drenched with lubricant, lower the car and take it for a drive. Do whatever you normally do that makes the steering wheel squeak... For me it was sharp low-speed turns like parking maneuvers. Listen for the squeak. If it's gone, great! If not, proceed to #2...



Next we'll tackle (2) the upper spindle bearing and (3) the slip ring. You will need:

- Bentley manual (not absolutely essential, but the photos are helpful if you've never removed the steering wheel before)
- ball-point pen
- metric socket set
- T30 Torx key
- felt marker, ultra-fine tip
- more Tri-Flow or equivalent
- copper paste lubricant (aka grease)
- torque wrench

This procedure involves removing the airbag. PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK.

Break out your Bentley manual and follow the instructions to remove your driver-side airbag and steering wheel. It goes something like this.

Start by parking your car with the steering wheel centered and the front wheels pointed exactly straight ahead. Then:

1. Disconnect negative battery terminal

2. Remove lower steering column trim mounting screw and remove lower trim. The screw is at the very bottom of the underside of the steering column. Remove it and then remove the plastic trim piece that covers the bottom half of the steering column. You'll need to push your cruise control lever around to get the plastic piece out without breaking it, but it will come out.

3. Remove orange SRS connector from its holder and carefully separate connector. There's a tiny little tab you'll need to press in on the side... use a ball-point pen. The connector should slip apart.

4. Working behind steering wheel, completely loosen Torx screws (T30) while holding airbag in place. Support airbag to prevent it from falling out. These scews are a PAIN but they WILL come loose if you're patient.

5. Carefully lift airbag off of steering wheel and disconnect orange harness connector from rear of airbag unit. Mine just pulled straight off. Be careful to set the airbag down face-up, someplace out of the way.

6. Now remove the steering wheel center bolt, number 6 in the diagram. If I recall correctly you'll need a 17mm socket here.

7. Now you can see the tip of the hollow steering spindle through the middle of the steering wheel. The outer edge of the spindle is toothed where the wheel slides over it. Use an ultra-fine tipped marker or something similar to mark the exact position of the steering wheel relative to the steering column shaft; that way you can put the steering wheel back on in precisely the same position later.

8. Unlock steering wheel by turning ignition key on. Remove steering wheel.


Now you can see the top part of the steering spindle assembly. Break out your can of lube and go to work. Give it several good shots and rotate the bearing and snap ring as you go to make sure the lube works its way in all around. Mop up excess.

I'm told that in some cases, the plastic bearing (#2 in the diagram) can be worn out, causing grinding and/or a wobbly or loose-feeling steering wheel. So, take a good look at the bearing while you're in there. If yours looks like it's on its last legs, you might consider replacing it. (Thanks to Kevin/KTL for the info.)

On the back of the steering wheel you can see the slip ring. Give it a light coating of copper paste lubricant.


Now it's time to put everything back together:

1. Install steering wheel while aligning matching reference marks you made earlier. Make sure airback contact ring locking pin engages cut-out in contact reel. (See the Bentley manual for photos... The pin is white and plastic and fits into a small hole in the ring in back of the steering wheel.) Install steering wheel center bolt and torque to 46 ft-lb (63 Nm).

The rest is simply the reverse of removal: Re-attach orange harness connector to back of airbag. Replace airbag and tighten the two airbag mounting screws in back of the steering wheel. Re-attach the orange SRS connector. Replace lower steering column trim. Replace trim retainer screw. Re-connect negative battery cable. Then follow the normal procedure for re-activating your auto-up windows, radio code, etc. You're done.

Take your car for another drive and enjoy the squeak-free silence.


I've found this entire procedure also reduces steering effort and helps isolate the steering wheel from roadgoing vibrations. My guess is this will all have to be repeated every 50-70k miles or whenever the lubricant dries up again. ;)

Credit goes to "hyperknight" for cutting through all the confusion and pointing me in the right direction on this issue. Thanks! :buttrock

:buttrock

Nice Writeup. I've had the damn squeek for years now. Been meaning to hit that lower bearing with some grease for a while now.... the slip ring didnt work for me either.

Very nice write up. My squeak has turned into a nice crunch...looks like im gona have to print this out.

Man, this has been bugging me for ages. I knew it wasn't the slip ring on the wheel when I upgraded to the three-spoked wheel. Fun project for tomorrow. Excellet write up. :buttrock

Nice write up...My car squeaks occasionally and hopefully this will solve the problem!

-Saul

is this the squeak that I can hear coming from my dash area???

I'm doing this this weekend :buttrock . This has been bugging me for a while and the stealer and my mechanic wanted in excess of $350 to take care of this. Thanks alot man, I vote for this to be parked!

:buttrock ;) good writeup

:stickoutt btw this was my favorite quote, heh funny if taken out of context:

you're going to need to use the party straws and duct tape to fabricate about 18 inches of extra tubing attached to the end of the lubricant

Wow seriously thank you. Ive had that damn sqeak ever since ive owned the car and I hate it :mad Finally ill be able to get rid of that annoying sound! :redspot

I drive a 328ic with 159,000 on her. It stopped squeaking at about 130,000 miles. Now it was a grind...
In my case it was actually binding up and making it sometimes difficult to turn the wheel. I could hear a binding/cracking noise from behind the steering wheel.

Thanks to Patrokloss for the great diagrams and the detailed of the real problem i.e.: the lower steering shaft bearings.
Equipped with Patrokloss’s knowledge I discovered the outer steering column is hollow and the bearings are mounted on it. Picture a shower curtain rod with the screw adjustment inside that needs lubrication without using either end. Drill a hole….
THE SOLUTION:
After removing the paneling above the drivers’ feet to gain access to the firewall, drill a 1/32” hole in the outer steering column housing about 2" above the point where it meets the firewall and what I guessed to be a little above the bearings. Spray about 1 ounce of WD-40 in there and place a piece of tape over the hole. That’s it. My grind and squeak was gone….
Don’t drill on the bottom of the housing because the lubricant will drip out. Drill as far up the side as possible. Stick the lubricant straw in the hole and give it a 20 second squirt. The lubricant will saturate the bearings. I am now considering applying a thicker lubricant/grease.
My car steers like new.

Ken Gasper

I drive a 328ic with 159,000 on her. It stopped squeaking at about 130,000 miles. Now it was a grind...
In my case it was actually binding up and making it sometimes difficult to turn the wheel. I could hear a binding/cracking noise from behind the steering wheel.

Thanks to Patrokloss for the great diagrams and the detailed of the real problem i.e.: the lower steering shaft bearings.
Equipped with Patrokloss’s knowledge I discovered the outer steering column is hollow and the bearings are mounted on it. Picture a shower curtain rod with the screw adjustment inside that needs lubrication without using either end. Drill a hole….
THE SOLUTION:
After removing the paneling above the drivers’ feet to gain access to the firewall, drill a 1/32” hole in the outer steering column housing about 2" above the point where it meets the firewall and what I guessed to be a little above the bearings. Spray about 1 ounce of WD-40 in there and place a piece of tape over the hole. That’s it. My grind and squeak was gone….
Don’t drill on the bottom of the housing because the lubricant will drip out. Drill as far up the side as possible. Stick the lubricant straw in the hole and give it a 20 second squirt. The lubricant will saturate the bearings. I am now considering applying a thicker lubricant/grease.
My car steers like new.

Ken Gasper
Any pictures of this DIY?

No, I didn't take any photos of the operation, however, I can tell you that several days later I still have great steering for the first time in a couple years. Mine was real bad. I was worried that it would cause an accident because I had NO steering wheel return when turning a corner.
One notation I failed to mention is that the steering column outer housing is fairly thin metal and once you get through (it will be obvious) you will hit the shaft. Stop. I also should note that the drill filings that may fall into the hole can't be good for bearings.... so try not to allow that to happen.
It may not be the best fix, but I'm happy.

It is nice how lubing those bearings has the added benefit of making the whole steering wheel turn more smoothly and easily. This is just a must-do for any E36 with more than 50k miles IMO. Probably should be added to the regular maintenance program.

I always think it's good to have alternatives, but there's really no need to remove dash panels, drill holes, worry about metal shavings, etc. The whole bearing assembly is below the firewall. Next time you have the front wheels up in the air, just crawl under there and spray it down. Good as new. :cool

EDIT: Ken, you are right in my backyard! I go to Cal Poly. :D

Hello neighbor.
You must live in SLO??
I live and work here: http://backbayinn.com
So you say the bearings are completely below the firewall? Are they exposed or are they covered in some way?

Ken

They're below the firewall and they're exposed, which is probably why they tend to dry out, accumulate road crud, and require lubrication every now and then. Access is a bit awkward (hence the need for the straws/extension) but with the car in the air it's a 60-second job. I've done it on two cars so far and it works like a charm. :cool

Tag.

Mine started squeaking recently.

I tried this and it worked perfect!!

My steering wheel squek had grown into a grind, I had NO return to center, and the steering felt very tight hard to steer. When this first happened last spring, I actually replaced the rack, which fixed the problem temporarily, but it returned with a vegeance this past week.

I sprayed motorcycle chain wax into the lower bearing, and VOILA! the steering was as good as the first day I fell in love with driving this car!

Sweeeeeeet!

I think the chain wax will last longer than WD-40 or JB-80.

Thanks for the assist!

i just started having this problem and now i know how to solve it.
thnx guys......

or you guys can take the easy (not cheap) way out and just toss in the 3-spoke wheel....that waht I did for other reasons...and all of a sudden...no more squeek :stickoutt

This writeup is probably major overkill for such a simple fix, but this question gets asked about twice a week so I figure it's time we had one of these.

You, sir, are a good man. I have asked this question many times and it has finally been answered. Excellent writeup, I can't wait to try this out!

Cool, I am installing an aftermarket steering wheel, and this is exactly what I was looking for!

just wanted to say thanks!!!! did the fix last night. the squeak was driving me crazy. i didn't completely believe this would fix it cuz it really does sound like the sound is coming from the steering wheel, but it is totally gone. total time including jacking up the car - < 5 min. i didn't use the straws, i just used the little straw that comes with the lube spray and shot it way up there.

this really is odd that it doesn't come from the steering wheel. I was getting the squeek fairly regularly with my 4-spoke wheel and right when I switched to the newer 3-spoke 3 or 4 weeks ago....the squeek has completely dissapeared :confused

maybe it is a combination of things that make that squeeky sound.

I'll be home in 2 weeks and when I get the car in the air, I'll be sure to do this first!!!

this really is odd that it doesn't come from the steering wheel. I was getting the squeek fairly regularly with my 4-spoke wheel and right when I switched to the newer 3-spoke 3 or 4 weeks ago....the squeek has completely dissapeared :confused

maybe it is a combination of things that make that squeeky sound.
If you read the writeup you'll note there are three different areas to check. The lower steering spindle bearing is simply the most common source of the problem. For most people, lubing that bearing will completely eliminate the squeak, so there is no need to go to the trouble of removing the steering wheel unless the first fix doesn't work.

If you read the writeup you'll note there are three different areas to check. The lower steering spindle bearing is simply the most common source of the problem. For most people, lubing that bearing will completely eliminate the squeak, so there is no need to go to the trouble of removing the steering wheel unless the first fix doesn't work.



oops....I didn't even really read through the full write-up before I posted....I just read a couple of replies. Now that I have read it....excellent job :buttrock

I just installed a three-spoke wheel and I don't have a "squeak". I have this weird plastic moving noise. Anyone else with this? I think I'll have to start a new thread with this. :(

FWIW, I was able to spray the lower/front bearing down from the engine bay. Required a inspection mirror, good lighting, and skinny wrists :)

The steering shaft exits the firewall just under and to the right of the brake booster. Can't see it from above, but I could see it with an inspection mirror lowered in there.

I dropped a can of triflow down below the intake then popped a small spray straw on with it right above/next to the steering shaft and probably 3" away. Aimed it in the right direction and sprayed while moving the straw around with my other hand. Checked my work with the inspection mirror, and, yep, it was wet.

My squeak is still present, and I'm sure it is in the upper bearing or shim.

Thanks everyone for the info!! I'm going to try the upper bearing soon (maybe tonight?).

I just installed a three-spoke wheel and I don't have a "squeak". I have this weird plastic moving noise. Anyone else with this? I think I'll have to start a new thread with this. :(

My noise was kind of like what you are describing. A hollow, high pitched, plastic sort of sound. I would just try the method in this post nonetheless, because if I had to bet I would say its your lower shaft bearing. I sprayed mine the other day, and the sound is completely gone, not to mention that the steering feels unbelievably smooth and like brand new.

AWESOME

I'm doing the under-car job tomorrow. Mine is worse some times than others. Popping, grinding, spring twanging noises, and the steering feels tighter and will resist returning to center. Sounds exactly like the others have described here. Seems like it is coming from right at the steering wheel, but I will try crawling under the car tomorrow to get this taken care of. I will try chain wax and/or spray lithium grease. Both should last longer than thin liquid lubes.

AWESOME

I'm doing the under-car job tomorrow. Mine is worse some times than others. Popping, grinding, spring twanging noises, and the steering feels tighter and will resist returning to center. Sounds exactly like the others have described here. Seems like it is coming from right at the steering wheel, but I will try crawling under the car tomorrow to get this taken care of. I will try chain wax and/or spray lithium grease. Both should last longer than thin liquid lubes.I thought about using lithium grease, but I didn't know whether it would penetrate well enough. For whatever it's worth, the Tri-Flow seems to have worked really well--it's been over 5,000 miles now, the steering still feels like new, and no squeak.

Thumbs up for the effort on the writeup. Answers alot of questions to those who don't know where the heck that squeak is coming from! :alright

To those who have used it, i'd recommend using something other than WD-40. That stuff is one of the most misused "lubes" i've ever seen. I myself am guilty in the past of using it for lubricating purposes. WD stands for Water Dispersant. It's not much of a lubricant. Use some other sort of spray lubricant instead of WD-40.

The motorcycle chain lube is a very good recommendation. When dry, it sticks and it is an EP (extreme pressure) formulation. I have this stuff made by Wurth called HHS 2000 which is a spray grease that works really well.

I'm not familiar with the Tri-Flow lube. Who makes it? Sounds like it works good.

Those guys getting the grinding may want to look into replacing the upper plastic bearing. Worn out plastic bearings/bushings can make for a loose feeling (you can make it wobble by shaking it up & down) steering wheel.

Also, be careful using white lithium grease on the contact ring. The plain grease may cause an intermittant electrical connection. It'd be best to use dielectric grease.

Kevin,

Thanks for the great info! I had no idea the lithium grease could potentially be a problem. I went ahead and edited my initial post with some of that info so that nobody misses it (with credit to you). Hope that's okay. Let me know if you'd like me to alter it in any way.

Regarding the Tri-Flo, I believe it's made by Sherwin-Williams. It's commonly used for bicycle chains, etc, the main idea being that it's a penetrating lubricant that holds up fairly well over time. I'm sure there are lots of good alternatives, but like you I would NOT recommend WD-40.

To those who have used it, i'd recommend using something other than WD-40. That stuff is one of the most misused "lubes" i've ever seen. I myself am guilty in the past of using it for lubricating purposes. WD stands for Water Dispersant. It's not much of a lubricant. Use some other sort of spray lubricant instead of WD-40.

And the "40", I believe, means 40th attempt. :D

Awesome writeup.

Also, be careful using white lithium grease on the contact ring. The plain grease may cause an intermittant electrical connection. It'd be best to use dielectric grease.


:nono Dielectric grease is an insulating grease, which limits the electrical conductivity. You need to use the opposite, which is a copper based grease. CRC makes a copper based grease. The reason is that the electrical connection between the horn/airbag relies on a rotating pice of metal (slip ring). You need to maintain this connection by using a copper based grease...not Dielectric grease (which would insulate it from conducting).

:nono Dielectric grease is an insulating grease, which limits the electrical conductivity. You need to use the opposite, which is a copper based grease. CRC makes a copper based grease. The reason is that the electrical connection between the horn/airbag relies on a rotating pice of metal (slip ring). You need to maintain this connection by using a copper based grease...not Dielectric grease (which would insulate it from conducting).I checked the TIS and this is correct. Copper based grease it is! Thanks.

I mistakingly placed dielectric grease on my slipring (3 spoke wheel) when I should have used a copper based grease. This is before I found out what exactly a dielectric grease was. I hope the dielectric grease doesn't mess things up. I check for continuity with my multimeter, making sure the horn works. and it does...let's hope the airbag works also!

:nono Dielectric grease is an insulating grease, which limits the electrical conductivity. You need to use the opposite, which is a copper based grease. CRC makes a copper based grease. The reason is that the electrical connection between the horn/airbag relies on a rotating pice of metal (slip ring). You need to maintain this connection by using a copper based grease...not Dielectric grease (which would insulate it from conducting).
So would white lithium grease be okay then?

I have been doing the lower bearing lube using lithium grease about once a month as preventative maintenance, and have perfected the under-hood process. It's so easy now, I keep a can of lithium grease in the trunk and do it at the gas station while filling the tank! :D

As noted before, the bearing is just left of the brake booster, down low. You can actually see the compression spring if you get your head up close to the windshield and towards the center of the car.

My trick is using an 18" piece of insulation from 12-gauge solid wire, like what is used in wiring a house. The insulation is a perfect fit over the straw for the lithium grease and is way flexible. Just snake it down next to the brake booster, aim it towards the bearing and blast away.

I keep a good coat of lithium grease on the spring/bearing and my steering has been perfect ever since.

P.S. To the guys from Cow-Potty in SLO...I grew up in SLO, lived Los Osos, my Dad and sister are Alumni, my Mom worked there. Of course that was in the '70s (except for my little sister who is a recent graduate...) since I live in Wisconsin now the 'small world' thing is killer! Go Mustangs!

I used the drilling method and it worked perfect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

No jacking, rigging, or cralwing under your car!

How??

Get a drill and a 3/16" bit and drill a pin hole in the steering shaft just above where it meets the fire-wall (on the INSIDE under your steering wheel). You don't have to drill very deep. Just through the first layer. Think of it as a hollow pipe that holds a shaft. You only have to drill through the shaft's housing.

NOW LUBE IT!...I used motor cycle chain lube...this is the best suff for the job hands down! it's designed to stay put and resit water, mud, heat... and...just know it the Shittt! It's also the best for your door hinges, trunk hinge, hood claspe, door catches, and clutch spring.

Anyway, take whatever your lube prefferece is and use the little red staw and stick it in the hole and squirt for about 10 secs and turn your wheel and reapeat about 2 or three times...your DONE! pat your self on the back.

Before I did this, my was wheel binding and grinding and poping...just making all sort of noises...it sounded like it was coming from the air bag area (slip ring) WRONG! Lubing the lower bearing fixed it 100%

I used the drilling method and it worked perfect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

No jacking, rigging, or cralwing under your car!

How??

Get a drill and a 3/16" bit and drill a pin hole in the steering shaft just above where it meets the fire-wall (on the INSIDE under your steering wheel). You don't have to drill very deep. Just through the first layer. Think of it as a hollow pipe that holds a shaft. You only have to drill through the shaft's housing.

NOW LUBE IT!...I used motor cycle chain lube...this is the best suff for the job hands down! it's designed to stay put and resit water, mud, heat... and...just know it the Shittt! It's also the best for your door hinges, trunk hinge, hood claspe, door catches, and clutch spring.

Anyway, take whatever your lube prefferece is and use the little red staw and stick it in the hole and squirt for about 10 secs and turn your wheel and reapeat about 2 or three times...your DONE! pat your self on the back.

Before I did this, my was wheel binding and grinding and poping...just making all sort of noises...it sounded like it was coming from the air bag area (slip ring) WRONG! Lubing the lower bearing fixed it 100%
Any pictures of this "hole" you had to drill? I don't want to drill in the wrong place. :(

Any help is greatly appreciated. :D

I know you probably can't take a picture of the area you need to completely saturate, but I'm just curious of what actually this area looks like. I'm going to do this next week, so any help would be appreciated.

Could someone take a pic under the car of where this piece is for me? Im sure it would help out a lot of guys like myself.

Any help on finding it would be excelent! Thanks :wave

Getting a camera up in there isn't easy. I tried taking a picture for the initial post and pretty much gave up.

Jack up the car, and find the steering rack. On the driver side of the steering rack, just below the steering wheel area, is a U-joint like in the schematic I posted on the first page. It angles up and back toward the firewall and connects to the steering spindle assembly, which goes through the firewall/steering column and attaches to the steering wheel.

If all that sounds like Greek to you, just figure there is a bar with one end that attaches to the back of the steering wheel while the other end goes down through the dash into the engine bay. Crawl underneath the car and look for the spot where that bar would theoretically come out. That's your target.

The squeaky bearing is just below the firewall, right at the bottom of the steering spindle. You don't have to be terribly exact with the lubricant. Just use the extension and wear goggles, because if you do it right there's bound to be excess. Point, shoot, drop the car back down, and go for a drive. If the problem persists, rinse and repeat or try the other steps.

Nice job on the write up, tis is one of those "I know whwt I need to do" things that you just never get around to doing. I like the idea on using the insulation from the solid core wiring, I may strip som 12-2 to see if that fits the ticket.


I used an old can of chain lube that I have had for years that I just couldn't throw away, I KNEW I kept that can for SOMETHING!

i have a squeek whenever i back out of my garage... its like... THE ONLY time it ever squeeks
i suppose i should spray it down with some fluid.. dun have time though... wait i can do it now... sigh ok maybe im just lazy
i cleaned my car YAY

Bringing this back to post a "thanks" to an excellent write-up, and great results! Finally, no more steering wheel squeak! :redspot

I've been looking for a "copper-based grease" to use for the slip ring and haven't really found anything.

The closest I've found is a copper anti-seize compound. I suspect this is what people are talking about, but it doesn't say anything about electrical conductivity in the description or usage information.

I've found this stuff at local auto parts stores in small bottles and in a semi-solid stick form. Here are some URLs (add www to the front, since I can't post links):

crcindustries.com/catalog/datasheet.asp?PN=SL35903&FAM=Lubricants

appliedproducts.com/store/item_detail.cfm?ITEM_ID=16

Is this the stuff you guys are using on the slip ring?

Thanks.

Then follow the normal procedure for re-activating your auto-up windows, radio code, etc. You're done.

I've got my radio code, but I have no idea how to get my auto-up windows working again. Does anyone know the code for that stuff, or is it specific to my vehicle?

I've got my radio code, but I have no idea how to get my auto-up windows working again. Does anyone know the code for that stuff, or is it specific to my vehicle?

reinitialize them by pressing up and holding for 10-15 seconds after they are all the way up.

I replaced the lower bearing while doing the tilt wheel mod. The stock bearing is lubed with grease. While a penetrating oil will lubricate for a while, I wouldn't think it will lubricate in the long-term.

I replaced the lower bearing while doing the tilt wheel mod. The stock bearing is lubed with grease. While a penetrating oil will lubricate for a while, I wouldn't think it will lubricate in the long-term.
In theory I would agree, but in point of fact I posted this writeup more than 14 months ago and I haven't had to repeat this procedure since that time. Steering still feels good and no squeak. Doesn't seem worth the effort to replace and re-pack the bearing... unless of course your results are different for some reason.

agreed.. 1 year with your "mod" and no squeek.

Can't argue with results.

Bump for a good thread. I'm going to try this tomorrow.

still no squeak....lubed lower steering bearing...9 months

I just did this. I didnt jack up the car at all. I just pushed the can of spray under the intake, and placed the nozzle's straw about a foot away from the bearing. Then i just took a flashlight to see where I was shooting, and sprayed away. I soaked it real good, and the sound seems to be gone now.

After having the car and squeak for 12 months I decided to fix it. Living in England the car is RHD so the bearing is right there in front of you .... 5 second job... CURED !

If you wanted to replace the column bearings, this tilt wheel DIY can provide insight.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5577923&posted=1#post5577923

agreed.. 1 year with your "mod" and no squeek.
+1 for that...I also performed this "mod" almost a year ago and have been fine ever since!

Help me out here guys.

I've had the squeak/noise for over a year. I installed a 98.5 3-spoke wheel last month, and replaced the bearing at top of steering spindle. It fixed the problem completely the first day, but unfortunately the wheel was off center. After my shop reinstalled the wheel, the noise came back and has been getting worse day by day.

Now, when I turn the wheel, first there's a slight click sound, then a grinding noise AND a squeak when the wheel is turned. There's also a slight rattle when I go over speed bumps, as if something's shaking somewhere in there. When I pull the wheel down I can hear and feel a squeak which is the same noise it makes when turning the wheel. There's almost no up and down play, but if I pull hard enough, I can hear and feel the squeak.

Any ideas what I should lube/replace? I'd like to get some ideas before I do anything. TIA!

Help me out here guys.

I've had the squeak/noise for over a year. I installed a 98.5 3-spoke wheel last month, and replaced the bearing at top of steering spindle. It fixed the problem completely the first day, but unfortunately the wheel was off center. After my shop reinstalled the wheel, the noise came back and has been getting worse day by day.

Now, when I turn the wheel, first there's a slight click sound, then a grinding noise AND a squeak when the wheel is turned. There's also a slight rattle when I go over speed bumps, as if something's shaking somewhere in there. When I pull the wheel down I can hear and feel a squeak which is the same noise it makes when turning the wheel. There's almost no up and down play, but if I pull hard enough, I can hear and feel the squeak.

Any ideas what I should lube/replace? I'd like to get some ideas before I do anything. TIA!


did you get the correct slip ring for the 3 spoke wheel? The problem may be there. Also, try flushing out the power steering fluid. My squeak was coming from using really old/dirty PS fluid.

I would suspect that the shop installed the slip ring incorrectly or the coil inside the slip ring isn't aligned properly. Are your self-cancelling turn signals working ok?

I do have the correct slip ring, it came attached to the wheel. And yes the turn signals are working properly.

I too was suspecting that they installed it wrong, but was not sure if it could happen given that they had all the correct parts. When they first installed it, the wheel was quiet and smooth, but off center by half an inch. Then the next day after they adjusted it, I started to hear all kinds of noise.

I just shot some WD-40 behind the wheel without taking it off. The grinding noise has become a rubbing one. The squeak is still there when the wheel self-centers, and the rattle is still there when driving on rough roads.

Any ideas? I will try to fix it in a few days, so I'd appreciate if someone could point me in the right direction. TIA!

Help me out here guys.

I've had the squeak/noise for over a year. I installed a 98.5 3-spoke wheel last month, and replaced the bearing at top of steering spindle. It fixed the problem completely the first day, but unfortunately the wheel was off center. After my shop reinstalled the wheel, the noise came back and has been getting worse day by day.

Now, when I turn the wheel, first there's a slight click sound, then a grinding noise AND a squeak when the wheel is turned. There's also a slight rattle when I go over speed bumps, as if something's shaking somewhere in there. When I pull the wheel down I can hear and feel a squeak which is the same noise it makes when turning the wheel. There's almost no up and down play, but if I pull hard enough, I can hear and feel the squeak.

Any ideas what I should lube/replace? I'd like to get some ideas before I do anything. TIA!

Did you ever lube the lower bearing? :confused This is the culprit 95% of the time and can cause nearly all the symptoms you describe. If you haven't tried it yet after an entire year, do it... It only takes a few minutes. Replacing the upper bearing and slip ring can temporarily mask the problem, but won't usually cure it.

If lubing the lower bearing doesn't help, I would take it back to the shop that installed the new wheel. First it's off-center, then it squeaks and rattles and grinds... That is unacceptable.

The only other option would be to actually remove the steering wheel yourself and do a visual inspection. It's not hard if you have a good set of tools and the Bentley manual to guide you... Just be extra careful handling the airbag. Let us know what you come up with.

Did you ever lube the lower bearing? :confused This is the culprit 95% of the time and can cause nearly all the symptoms you describe. If you haven't tried it yet after an entire year, do it... It only takes a few minutes. Replacing the upper bearing and slip ring can temporarily mask the problem, but won't usually cure it.

If lubing the lower bearing doesn't help, I would take it back to the shop that installed the new wheel. First it's off-center, then it squeaks and rattles and grinds... That is unacceptable.

The only other option would be to actually remove the steering wheel yourself and do a visual inspection. It's not hard if you have a good set of tools and the Bentley manual to guide you... Just be extra careful handling the airbag. Let us know what you come up with.

Thanks for your reply. I appreciate it.

I've never lubed the lower bearing, because the squeak wasn't too bad before the new wheel was installed. I will take the wheel off tomorrow to see what's going on in there. Will also lube the lower bearing.

I will update this thread once I find a fix to all the noises.

Update:

Lubed the lower bearing, and vaila, it's butter smooth now. No squeak, grinding noise, rattle...nothing.

Thanks Patrokloss!

I just tried this. I threaded a tube up the steering colum untill It couldn't go any more. I sprayed for a second, inched it out about an inch and then sprayed again. Did this the whole length of the steering column with white lithium grease and got...

Nada


Thing still squeaks. So it looks like the steering wheel is coming off.

i used the drilling technigue with white lithium grease and still have a squeek...
i then took of my steeringwheel (aftermarket sparco so it was very easy) and unscrewed the 17mm bolt and lubed the crap out of it ---> still have a squeek:(

i give up...:mad

Guys, I am no expert but I don't think white lithium grease is going to do the job unless you actually disassemble the bearing and lube the individual parts. The white lithium grease I have used in the past was too thick for a job like this.

Try a penetrating lubricant such as Tri-Flow. Follow the writeup closely, ie spray and then turn the wheel lock to lock, then respray and turn again. That way you can be sure the lube has worked its way in and coated all the moving parts correctly.

Also, I am not convinced that drilling and/or spraying inside the steering spindle is going to help all that much. The bearing assembly is on the OUTSIDE. Just get your lube and a long spray tube and spray down the part that you see right in the engine bay. That's all that is needed. Many MANY people have had great success with this.

...and if all THAT doesn't work, then it's probably time to pull apart the steering wheel. :)

Good luck.

yeah, what he said...on the outside in the engine bay....you can't go wrong....it worked for me.

Ditto on using something other than white lithium grease.

You can actually lube the lower bearing without jacking up the car. Look down between the dipstick and firewall, you can see the lower joint assembly which looks like a control arm. The bearing is on top of this thing. Fabricate a looong tube for the spray can, and just let the lube drip down.

On a side note, where do you guys buy Tri-flow from? I stole my last can from a friend, but it's empty now. I've been to Pep Boys and O'Reilly, neither had Tri-flow.

Ditto on using something other than white lithium grease.

You can actually lube the lower bearing without jacking up the car. Look down between the dipstick and firewall, you can see the lower joint assembly which looks like a control arm. The bearing is on top of this thing. Fabricate a looong tube for the spray can, and just let the lube drip down.

On a side note, where do you guys buy Tri-flow from? I stole my last can from a friend, but it's empty now. I've been to Pep Boys and O'Reilly, neither had Tri-flow.
Yeah, I've tried white lithium grease, WD-40 and liquid wrench. :(

I still have a squeak but it's very minor. Only on slow, low-speed turns. And with the stereo on, I don't notice it at all. Only when I have the radio off (and, unfortunately, that's when I have passengers) can I hear it.

On a side note, where do you guys buy Tri-flow from? I stole my last can from a friend, but it's empty now. I've been to Pep Boys and O'Reilly, neither had Tri-flow.

Tri-flow is great stuff, and not necessarily specific to auto applications. My local hardware stores all carry it. Most bike shops stock it as it makes a great bicycle chain lube. I believe Walmart carries it as well.

Yeah, I've tried white lithium grease, WD-40 and liquid wrench. :(

I still have a squeak but it's very minor. Only on slow, low-speed turns. And with the stereo on, I don't notice it at all. Only when I have the radio off (and, unfortunately, that's when I have passengers) can I hear it.

Give that Tri-flow stuff a shot, it's only a few bucks and might end up fixing your squeak. I used WD-40 and a cheap, off-brand motorcycle chain lube before I tried Tri-flow, neither really worked.

Tri-flow is great stuff, and not necessarily specific to auto applications. My local hardware stores all carry it. Most bike shops stock it as it makes a great bicycle chain lube. I believe Walmart carries it as well.

Thanks for the info!

An alternative method to jacking up the car/spraying yourself in the face to get to the bottom bearing is to just lube it from the top. I just got some lithium greese and smeared it over the bearing from the top. It's just below the brake booster towards the passenger side against the firewall.

Damn, you guys are lucky. Mine squeeked like a pig even after lubing it. I removed the steering wheel, knee panel and the whole steering column. It was under warranty anyway, and I got paid to fix my own car, but things didnt work smoothly and took like 7 hours.

Give that Tri-flow stuff a shot, it's only a few bucks and might end up fixing your squeak. I used WD-40 and a cheap, off-brand motorcycle chain lube before I tried Tri-flow, neither really worked.

I'll be sure to try that. :)

An alternative method to jacking up the car/spraying yourself in the face to get to the bottom bearing is to just lube it from the top. I just got some lithium greese and smeared it over the bearing from the top. It's just below the brake booster towards the passenger side against the firewall.
Yeah, I tried that as well. Maybe I should try this Tri-flow stuff? :dunno

I made sure to work the stuff in. It made the steering wheel turn easier and it stopped squeaking when I'm turning it. Now it only squeaks when it centers itself.

My squeak is back. It's not as bad as it used to be, but when it self-centers, it's still pretty annoying. There's also a wobbly feeling to it.

http://www.jeffsuovanen.com/calpoly/steering_spindle_upper.jpg

I suspected the plastic bearing wass worn, so I took the wheel off. Now here's my question. The plastic bearing (#2 in the diagram) on my car is locked in by #3 the back up ring, and #3 is locked in place by the toothed spindle top. The only thing I'm able to remove is the #5 ring. Also, is this #3 ring supposed to be tight in place? Mine is loose, has up and down as well as back and forth play.

Is this normal? How can I get to the #2 plastic bearing and how can I remove it?

Thanks in advance!

My squeak is back. It's not as bad as it used to be, but when it self-centers, it's still pretty annoying. There's also a wobbly feeling to it.

I suspected the plastic bearing wass worn, so I took the wheel off. Now here's my question. The plastic bearing (#2 in the diagram) on my car is locked in by #3 the back up ring, and #3 is locked in place by the toothed spindle top. The only thing I'm able to remove is the #5 ring. Also, is this #3 ring supposed to be tight in place? Mine is loose, has up and down as well as back and forth play.

Is this normal? How can I get to the #2 plastic bearing and how can I remove it?

Thanks in advance!

It's snap ring #4 that's holding the plastic bearing in. Yes, its a PITA to get off. I didn't have the appropriate remover, so I pried it out of it's grove in the spindle with small screwdrivers and then removed it with needle nosed pliers.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c195/lkstaack/BMW/Column/Spindletop.jpg

It's snap ring #4 that's holding the plastic bearing in. Yes, its a PITA to get off. I didn't have the appropriate remover, so I pried it out of it's grove in the spindle with small screwdrivers and then removed it with needle nosed pliers.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c195/lkstaack/BMW/Column/Spindletop.jpg

Thanks for the info! I really appreciate it.

Was your backup ring (#3) loose? Did it have any play other than rotation?

Thanks for the info! I really appreciate it.

Was your backup ring (#3) loose? Did it have any play other than rotation?
I believe that the spacer ring was firm against the plastic bearing. Your bearing is probably mis-shaped. Parts of this thread may be useful: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5577923&posted=1#post5577923

I did this today and the squeaking was gone instantly! The steering is definitely a touch smoother too. I hit it from below with white lithium grease and it did the trick. Thanks!

Next we'll tackle (2) the upper spindle bearing and (3) the slip ring. You will need:

- T30 Torx key


In the middle of doing this fix.

Step 1 reduced the noise but didn't eliminate it.

Moving on to step 2.

Torx key I needed was 27. (my car is a 96 M3)

Steering wheel came off VERY easily. Will keep you posted with updates.

Sweet! Gonna try this....mine since I got it has always had a real high pitched squeak.....finally pin pointed it to the wheel when it's at the 10 o'clock position. Hope this helps....wheel feels fine but the noise sucks!

And for the next peeps reading the thread....


WD40 is not a lubricant!!!!!


Tri-Flow, Chain Lube, Chain Wax should all work. If I can find a spray chain wax I may try that, it drys and does not attract dirt.

Worked for me. I can't see it from above and there's no way my hand can get in there to feel, but wasn't too bad from below. I've been a Triflow advocate for 20 years, so that's what I used. However it's not fair to say WD40 is not a lubricant. It obviously is, just a rather thin one that won't last too well.

Read the label carefully, WD40 is a displacemant fluid. It displaces water, and is useful for cleaning some things. But it has zero lubrication properties. It has been misused millions of times...catchy label and name I guess....

is it common to hear something like a spring tensioning and twisting likes its going to break? then an unbearable squeaking loud noise? while the entire time the wheel is stiff and difficult to move?

Read the label carefully, WD40 is a displacemant fluid. It displaces water, and is useful for cleaning some things. But it has zero lubrication properties. It has been misused millions of times...catchy label and name I guess....

Maybe you should read the label. My can has 5 categories of uses listed, with several examples of each. The uses listed are:
Lubricates
Cleans
Protects
Penetrates
Displaces Moisture

And again, to state "zero lubrication" is silly. All you have to do is feel it or try it on some metal parts and you can feel it lubricates. As I wrote above I agree that it is not a very useful lubricant, but it does lubricate (until it runs/evaporates off).

Cool, I am installing an aftermarket steering wheel, and this is exactly what I was looking for!Hey whats up man i love thoes wheels you have on that ride what kind and size are they and where can i buy them!!

Patrokloss.. just curious.. why your admonition against WD-40?

Patrokloss.. just curious.. why your admonition against WD-40?
Just giving fair warning; my experience with WD-40 has not been so good. As a lubricant it barely seems to work even with repeated applications. I warned against it simply because I don't want people complaining that my writeup doesn't work when in reality it's the product they are using that isn' t working... Just helps eliminate one more variable when you are trying to chase down something as elusive as a random squeak.

One application of Tri-Flow has lasted me quite a long time. You can try WD-40 at your own risk. YMMV.

I brought some Silicone Lubricant from kragen before I found this thread

http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products/product_detail.asp?product=36

Do you think this will work or should i return it and get some tri-flow?

You don't want to have to do this again. It's not really that hard, but airbags are a bitch.

Go Get Triflow.

I brought some Silicone Lubricant from kragen before I found this thread

http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products/product_detail.asp?product=36

Do you think this will work or should i return it and get some tri-flow?

ok i appreciate the reply but does that mean you know about silicone spray? is it not as good? its what i always thought was the best lubricant growing up.

ok so I just got back from the shops and i cant find it anywhere,

I went to:

Kragen
Pep Boys
Napa
Home Depot

none of them have heard of it.

anywhere else i should try?

ok so I just got back from the shops and i cant find it anywhere,

I went to:

Kragen
Pep Boys
Napa
Home Depot

none of them have heard of it.

anywhere else i should try?
See Post #75 (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5802262&postcount=75) of this thread.

See Post #75 (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5802262&postcount=75) of this thread.

Yep most if not all bicycle shops have it.

thank you, home depot was right next to walmart too!!!!!! psssh, ok i'll drive down there and pick myself up a can

thanks again

ok, so i went to home depot and they didnt have it either!!!!

I found a small bycicle shop and they sold me a can for 9 dollars!!! the guy was like, "yeah with gas prices and all" haha

so anyway....

I drilled a very small hole in the steering column about two inches above the firewall using a 14v cordless on screwdriver mode as not to drill it too fast, and then squrted half of the can down there. i also sprayed all the pivots on the pedals.

all squeeks have gone and my steering feels smoother and small turns but still feels heavy on the bigger turns, maybe thats something else i need to look into. power steering maybe...

anyway, happy for the exsistance of this thread, thank you

Great posting, thanks

Just got my 328is this weekend, and wouldn't you know, 50 miles out of the dealer and the "squeaking steering wheel" showed up.

I tried the bottom bearing lubrication you suggested, and that seems to have gotten most of it. I used Sea Foam's "Deep Creep" penetrating and lubricating oil. It shoots like a rocket right out of the straw that came with the can, and I was able to soak it enough I guess, just by spraying the hell out of it. I don't think the "penetrating" oil has enough lubrication properties to make this last for long though, I think I'll re and re those bearings some day soon.

I'm new to BMW, I expected better engineering.....

I'm new to BMW, I expected better engineering.....

WHAAAA!!!

Only 50 miles and you're already complaining about the engineering of the car?

TAKE THE CAR BACK.

I tried all of this today, and no matter how much I tried I just could not get the steering wheel's bearings to stop squeaking. I tried 3 different lubricants, every nook and cranny, and it still squeaks. One benefit though, is that it is much easier to turn.

I tried all of this today, and no matter how much I tried I just could not get the steering wheel's bearings to stop squeaking. I tried 3 different lubricants, every nook and cranny, and it still squeaks. One benefit though, is that it is much easier to turn.
If you followed the directions and didn't cut any corners, then I would say your squeak is coming from something other than the steering wheel / bearing assemblies. Properly lubed, they will not squeak.

Could be time to grab a stethoscope and start checking other possibilities. But make sure you followed the directions... Lots of people seem to think, "Oh, I don't want to go buy a penetrating lubricant, I'll just use what I have in my garage," and of course it doesn't work. Or instead of directly lubricating the bearing they drill a hole at the top of the steering shaft and just sort of hope the lube finds its way down to the right place.

IMO, shortcuts = bad.

Great writeup, this realy worked!!

Tri-flow is great stuff, and not necessarily specific to auto applications. My local hardware stores all carry it. Most bike shops stock it as it makes a great bicycle chain lube. I believe Walmart carries it as well.


I sure hope Walmart has got it....I will be lub'in mine tomorow....how do

you know/what do you look for on the back of any grease/penetrating

lubricant that will tell you if the stuff is copper based or not?:shifty

I sure hope Walmart has got it....I will be lub'in mine tomorow....how do

you know/what do you look for on the back of any grease/penetrating

lubricant that will tell you if the stuff is copper based or not?:shifty

If you have a 99, you don't need to lube the slip ring. The 3-spoke wheel's slip ring has an updated design with an all plastic back and a ribbon connector. There's no metal contact ring (which is what needs the lube).

If you have a 99, you don't need to lube the slip ring. The 3-spoke wheel's slip ring has an updated design with an all plastic back and a ribbon connector. There's no metal contact ring (which is what needs the lube).

I was going to try and lube the bottom bearing end that sits right on the fire wall behind the brake booster......

what are you implying I do then.....with my 99?

is the slip ring that is updated in the 99 visible from the engine bay or underneath.....

I was going to try and lube the bottom bearing end that sits right on the fire wall behind the brake booster......

what are you implying I do then.....with my 99?

is the slip ring that is updated in the 99 visible from the engine bay or underneath.....

Just soak the lower bearing in the engine bay. The slip ring is right behind your steering wheel. Personally I don't think the 3-spoke wheel's slip ring needs lubrication. If anyone insists on lubing it, any lube would do since it's plastic.

right. I was just gonna lube the lower/bottom bearing....easiest to do.....but now how can you tell if the lube is copper based or not?

I assume that chain lube, bike lube, or tri flow is copper based

right. I was just gonna lube the lower/bottom bearing....easiest to do.....but now how can you tell if the lube is copper based or not?

I assume that chain lube, bike lube, or tri flow is copper based

The bearing doesn't have to be lubed with a copper based lubricant. Just use Tri-Flow, which actually IS a chain lube.

The bearing doesn't have to be lubed with a copper based lubricant. Just use Tri-Flow, which actually IS a chain lube.

I hope they got it at Walmart....I have already checked with Fairfax Auto Parts and they said "aint never heard of it"


I need to find a bike shop perhaps

I just found this thread thanks to the wonders of Google, so I thought it only right that I register to say thank you.

I've spent several hours today with the steering wheel off trying to locate a funny twanging sound when I turn the wheel. I originally thought it must be a spring holding the horn contact ring brushes... Except my car is a '96 and doesn't have a contact ring at all, just a nice coil of flexy wire inside a big black plastic casing on the back of the wheel.

My steering was getting tight, at times it almost felt like the steering lock was trying to come on, and I had to spend my entire driving time with both hands clamped onto the wheel with knuckles white with pressure just in case it chose that exact moment to go tight on me...

So after seeing this thread, and the exploded diagram, I noticed the spring right down at the bottom of the column, and as I had suspected a spring all the time, but failed to find one, (cos it was hiding under the bonnet/hood) gave it a good squirting with the only spray grease I had to hand - Silkolene synthetic motorcycle chain oil - It's handy riding a bike sometimes :-)

I might have had an easier time what with my steering wheel being on the other side of the car to you guys, I could get it with the 5 inch pipe supplied with the spray grease. From what I could see on the other side of the engine bay, I doubt it would have been so easy.

I went for a test drive, and within 400 yards, the steering was smooth and light (quite scary actually) and the noise had stopped!

So a big thank you, and I now have to get used to how light the steering really is!

Steve.

:D That made my day. Best post ever! :buttrock

I used some liquid wrench penetrating oil.....couldnt find anything else really...

I guess the straws I got were to thick becuase I couldnt get that straw to hold onto the bottle with all that duck/duct tape around it.

shot pretty hard from underneath the car with just the little straw it came with....I could see that the bottom bearing was soaked.

How do you guys perform step I without getting under the car.....space is SO tight....I cant seem to fit that bottle...and cant see for shit

http://www.blueskycycling.com/product276_2_-Tri-Flow-Wet-Lube-2oz.htm

http://www.blueskycycling.com/product277_2_-Tri-Flow-Dry-Lube-2oz.htm

Which 1 is better? Dry or Wet kind of this stuff?

instead of a jackstand can I just use the original thing in the truck of the bmw to lift up the car?

instead of a jackstand can I just use the original thing in the truck of the bmw to lift up the car?

The short answer is no. Never work under a BMW that's only supported by the OEM jack, you could get seriously injured or even killed by doing so.

The short answer is no. Never work under a BMW that's only supported by the OEM jack, you could get seriously injured or even killed by doing so.

Most Deff.

Just a rule of thumb.

Drive it over ramps or jack it up and place a jack stand

I was trying to figure out what lube to use ont he slipring, and knew I would find a writeup eventually. Cooper paste lube, perfect.

looks like another project for me. I keep thinking that a cat is being strangled when I turn the wheel! LITHIUM GREASE OK??

I have the 3 spoke wheel and it squeaks. I'm gonna take care of this soon. Thanks!

nice rides

You guys, I have no idea where to spray. Would anyone be so kind as to post a picture. I dont know if im supposed to go in from under the hood, or if I have to from under the car. I have no clue what to look for, im an idiot under the hood.:(

I was wondering what's been the long term consensus on lube choice: tri-flow vs. spray white lithium grease?

From using WD-40, tri-flow, white lithium grease and others on bicycles over the years, I've always thought that Tri-flow works pretty well all over the bike but attracts dirt on the chain and gears and doesn't last too long if it gets wet. Which is why I don't use it on those places.

I bring this up because that lower bearing is exposed and I'm wondering how long the tri-flow lasts on it vs. the white lithium spray. A spray white lithium probably isn't as good as the white lithium grease in a tube but it's easier to do and is going to penetrate.

works great squeak is gone thanks Patrokloss. For those who want a picture, there really is no need. It is exactly as Patrokloss describes. It works better to jack up the car because you can spray it into the bearing. If you do it from the engine bay you'll mostly just get the ring.
I used chain lube for my motorcycle, seems to work great.

I used chain lube too. Worked great.

prior to doing this, my steering squeeked, and sometimes would require more effort to turn in. When it got stiff enough, the steering wouldn't return to center, and would actually make loud crunch sounds.

Very easy, just need to jack the car up.

Edit: Thanks for the write up. I love the car again...even though when I was doing this repair, I noticed an oil leak between the transmission and the engine. Rear main seal for the loss:(

I did this fix last night as well using a can of CRC's White Lithium Grease. As I'm in New Zealand I've never heard of Tri-Flow but the store has WD-40 ;-).

I liberally soaked the parts closest to the firewall with the grease, and boy the smell!

There are some pictures here, and I'll load my own later on:
http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=7808&highlight=steering+squeak

Hopefully I targeted the correct parts but from a quick blast around the block the squeaking gone and the steering is lighter and easier to use. However there is a faint rubbing sound that I can now hear which was probably masked by the loud squeaking previously.

Project for tomorrow!
Doesn't really bother me but the wifey complains.

subscribing

I just did this on my 1997 M3 the other day. The car had 117k miles and had a bad squeak every time I was turning the wheel during slow speeds. I found a small can of Tri-flo at a local motorcycle shop for $7. I then jacked up the car and put it on jackstands. After searching a little bit, I found the supposed bearing I was supposed to lube. The tri-flo can I bought was small and I was able to squeeze it in through the x-brace and oil pan. This allowed me to just use the straw the can came with. Although this method is a bit harder and you might miss a few times until you actually hit the bearing, I didn't have to use duct tape or straws. After spraying the bearing liberally and turning the steering wheel left and right, I took it for a spin. All prior squeaks and noises are gone and steering feels a lot smoother. Definitely do not hesistate to do this if your steering wheel has any kind of squeak.

I just did this on my 1997 M3 the other day. The car had 117k miles and had a bad squeak every time I was turning the wheel during slow speeds. I found a small can of Tri-flo at a local motorcycle shop for $7. I then jacked up the car and put it on jackstands. After searching a little bit, I found the supposed bearing I was supposed to lube. The tri-flo can I bought was small and I was able to squeeze it in through the x-brace and oil pan. This allowed me to just use the straw the can came with. Although this method is a bit harder and you might miss a few times until you actually hit the bearing, I didn't have to use duct tape or straws. After spraying the bearing liberally and turning the steering wheel left and right, I took it for a spin. All prior squeaks and noises are gone and steering feels a lot smoother. Definitely do not hesistate to do this if your steering wheel has any kind of squeak.

Thanks for the addition.

Here's a possible better solution to the tape+multiple straw method.
First off, I used lithium grease. I also picked up an 1/8" plastic hose (like vacuum hose) and taped most of it to a metal dowel (see pic). From here, a flashlight under the car and you can see the u-joint and the spring and bearing well enough to blast it with lube by just sticking the dowel with the hose straight up in there.
This was done on my brother's 97 328i and worked like charm. His squeak was horrible.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/161/348318277_37a592332a_b.jpg

Here's a possible better solution to the tape+multiple straw method.
First off, I used lithium grease. I also picked up an 1/8" plastic hose (like vacuum hose) and taped most of it to a metal dowel (see pic). From here, a flashlight under the car and you can see the u-joint and the spring and bearing well enough to blast it with lube by just sticking the dowel with the hose straight up in there.
This was done on my brother's 97 328i and worked like charm. His squeak was horrible.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/161/348318277_37a592332a_b.jpg

Help me understand this a bit more if you would...you used the metal dowel as a support for the plastic hose so you could aim it better, and sprayed the lithium grease through the plastic hose? Is that correct?

You guys, I have no idea where to spray. Would anyone be so kind as to post a picture. I dont know if im supposed to go in from under the hood, or if I have to from under the car. I have no clue what to look for, im an idiot under the hood.:(

Look at where the steering column comes directly out of the firewall...wear glasses and spray the hell out that area. Did this a couple years ago and just now my squeak has returned.

Just used tri-flow on the steering colum. i didn't have to jack up the car. I had to feel where the spot was and then lube it blind, but it worked and my squeak is gone!

Help me understand this a bit more if you would...you used the metal dowel as a support for the plastic hose so you could aim it better, and sprayed the lithium grease through the plastic hose? Is that correct?

Correcto.

After looking at it, I figured I couldn't squeeze my hand up there easily, so my father and I devised this contraption, so one person could get under that car and do it with ease.

Sweet write-up man This thing has been buggin me for years:)

vote for sticky!

+1 for the sticky.

White lithium sprayed where the column exits the firewall worked for me last week. Take precautions to keep it out of your eyes.... it hurts like hell :eyecrazy !

Had to do it again today...worked great and steering feels better! STICKY!!!

Tried it - it worked pretty well! This steering wheel squeek has been bothering me for years. After reading this thread, I went to my local bike shop and bought the best penetrating lubricant they had ($12). I didn't feel like spending too much time or bother getting the jack out, so I got a 3 foot length of heat-shrink tube that was just large enough that it slipped over the spray bottle pipe tip perfectly. I then sprayed the steering shaft u-joint and blindly sprayed behind the brake booster. First application - 50% reduction (drove it between applications). Second application - 90% reduction. Third application - 98% reduction. I can still get a slight squeek if I really try but otherwise, it's as good as new. I'm glad I held off on replacing the slip ring... THANKS!!

I vote for sticky as well. Or, better yet, there should be a vetted DIY section for the good DIY threads.

Regards,

Art S.

Are you guys keeping the different squeeks separate?

1) When turning the wheel

2) When the steering column goes up and down

Or are they one in the same? The steering column up and down squeek is also a regular question. I attempted to answer it once, but not nearly as nicely as this guy did!

Bono,

This is the 'turn the wheel' squeek.

Art S.

hey! my ? is if you rig up a flexible tube why cant you do this from under the hood. i can see the lower part from top & see were it goes into the fire wall too. im just wondering why you guys are saying do it from under the car.

thanks!

I did it from under the hood. I sprayed the U-joint easily but I had to spray the bushing blind because it is behind the brake booster. I'm sure I didn't do as good of a job as I would have if I could see what I was doing but the results were quite good.

Regards,

Art S.

+1 for "under the hood" method. I tried using ramps and sliding under with my crawler, but there was no way I was going to get back far enough. I was too lazy to break out my jack and use stands on the back, so I took a look down from the hood.

For those trying to find it from up top (descriptions for an M52 - your car may be different):

Look at your throttle body leading into the intake maniflold.

Visualize a line between the throttle and your steering wheel.

Follow the line until you see the universal joint at the end of the second diagram in the post (the "thing"). The joint is on the bottom left of the diagram. It's in a fairly open space about 12-18" down in the compartment.

Once you see it, give the u-joint a blast and follow the "thing" up to the firewall. I had to shoot blind, but a few good blasts and I was pretty sure I got it.

I used the straw method - you don't need tape, just jam them together - and white lithium spray grease.

Worked like a champ.

THANK YOU for posting this... i am new to BMW's... i just picked up my M3 sedan two weeks ago tomorrow. It had a squeak when i got it... i thought it was the slip ring. NEVER would have guessed to check the lower stem bearing.

So i was cleaning out my Idle Control Valve... as my idle was rough/car dying when cold. No biggie. Then i remember reading this (THANKS, photographic memory!) and was like: "huh... there's the steering linkage... maybe i'll spray that sumbitch!" So i just squirted some lube on the top and let it run down. Finsihed cleaning the ICV out and viola! No more rough idle AND no more squeak!!

And yeah- by removing the airbox and hose to the throttle body, you can get RIGHT in there. I had it off already, but it literally takes five minutes to get off. I recommend this approach.


And on another note- i worked in a hardware store in high school. And have a phenominal memory. So i have known about tri-flow for a LONG time. I LOVE IT.

It's got teflon in it. PTFE. Polytetrafluoroethylene. Great stuff!!

You know what else has the SAME thing in it? The liquid wrench dry lubricant. It's the one with the goldish-colored nut on the top of the can. MANY places carry that, and it's basically the same thing. I think an 11oz can cost me all of four bucks. HUGE compared to tri-flow. Same function.

Just a heads up.

Cheers!

Follow up..................

Dielectric grease is fine for immobile connections like spark plug wire terminals, spade connectors, battery terminals, etc. The grease is indeed non-conductive, but supposedly the connection of the parts displaces the grease and metal-to-metal contact is acheived. Thanks for the correction. I agree there's a better choice than dielectric. But dielectric will still work.

For a sliding connection like the horn contact ring, yes a copper conductive paste is the choice since the paste is more conductive than dielectric grease. But the copper paste too gets displaced. People are asking what's this copper stuff? It's copper anti-seize lubricant like the stuff you would use on bolt threads. So, ultimately the greases are more for protection of the parts- to keep out moisture and whatnot.

I think people need to heed the warnings of those who say don't use WD-40. It's not a bad product when used for it's designed purpose (Water Dispersion). It's been rumored that this stuff was designed for NASA way back when. Maybe the NASA boast is something used in advertising when it first came to market? I dunno. Maybe that's why it got so popular because everybody thinks, "If it's good enough for NASA, hell, it''s gotta be good for what I need it for!!!!" :nono

Use a EP grease that dries upon application. The chain lubes, gun lubes, automotive lubes that are Extreme Pressure greases are your best bet because they have properties that keep them from wearing off the contact surfaces. IMO, white lithium grease is no good in this application. It doesn't have enough staying power and you'll be doing the job again later. The point here is to use a grease that is very durable and won't need constant attention.

For instance, on my 911, the service information constantly recommends using this stuff called Olista Long Life EP. What is it? It's a thick, durable grease that you use in bearings that don't see much attention. In my case, this stuff is supposed to be used for the clutch release fork bearings inside the transmission bell housing. You think i'm going to assume white lithium grease will be ok for this application? Hell no. So I did some research and found a product by Dow Corning called 1292 Long Life Bearing Grease. Bingo! Just what I need. Something that resists moisture and contamination, remains in place, continues to lubricate for many years so I don't have to take my engine out every year to lube some bearings that are drying out too often.

Same goes for the steering shaft bearings in this case. It's a shame the grease chosen by BMW doesn't last long enough. So this time, make sure you use one that does! People here have been kind enough to give the names of grease products we know will work. USE THEM!!! If you can't find it locally? Search/shop on the internet much????? :rolleyes

IMO, white lithium grease is no good in this application. It doesn't have enough staying power and you'll be doing the job again later. The point here is to use a grease that is very durable and won't need constant attention.

This was my first take at fixing the squeak, and the CRC White Lithium Grease did fine by me. Granted, it's only been eight days.

Similar to kevinwilly, I was trying to fix two problems at once - the ICV and a squeak. While browsing the available products at my local auto shop, I saw the following on the CRC label:

"Provides long-lasting lubrication with excellent water and heat resistance. Ideal for metal-to-metal lubrication. Use on brake and gear shift mechanisms, steering parts, hinges, latches and many other vehicle uses. Use for break-in lubrication for bearings, etc. Lubricates machines, tools and equipment in the shop, home and farm."

While I'm not planning on any farm applications in the near future, the marketing on the can sold me.

IF/WHEN the squeak comes back, I'll chime back in on the thread and let you know how well it lasted.

Here's a dumb question...

Is White Grease the same as white Lithium grease?

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h50/C01234/MISC/Lube002.jpg

I want to lube my hinges and the stuff that was used last time left a white residue, this is clear..

Thanks for the input. I posted this problem on the general maintenence forum did'nt get much help. maybe you should post it there for the other members. I have a 1997 540i and I assume it will work the same. Thanks

Hopefully this did it! Yesterday I tackled my squeak~ Plastic bearing (#2 in diagram) was the main issue for me. It was clicking HARD and made it hard to turn and no return to center. 15 dollars from local dealer and a bottle of penetrating lube...my car feels new again! DAMN SNAP RING~(C-clip) that thing sucks!

So i thoroughly hit the lower bearing with penetrating oil. Turned wheel side to side, drove it, RE lubed it. Same thing.

So I removed the steering wheel/airbag, and lubed the upper bearing as well.

There is STILL a creak, mainly when the wheel is centered, and you turn the wheel left/right an inch or two. Also does it at the 10 oclock position.

With that in mind, do I need to remove that C clip, remove that bearing, and literally get right AT the plastic part, and soak it directly?

1999 M3

Ahh. Appears I had a slightly different squeak than anyone else referenced here. (actually, it was more of an annoying creak). After examining and re-examining, my squeak was neither the upper or lower bearing, but it was the brass ring that is attached to the slip ring. It was rubbing excessivelyy/had too much friction against the plastic of the slipring housing which it is a part of. I actually could have corrected this issue without removing the lower panel or disconnecting the actual airbag connectors. You MUST, however, disconnect the battery for safety reasons. In fact, let me go on record as saying you SHOULD follow the Bentley manual, and fully disconnect the airbag before attempting this.


Regardless, here is a shortcut that I will follow if this comes up again.

I will:
Disconnect the battery.
Loosen both of the airbag Torx30 bolts. (Easier to do/see the torx bolts if you rotate the steering wheel so that one bolt is at the 6 oclock position) .loosen, then rotate so the other torx bolt is at the 6 o clock position..loosen. Place steering wheel back in the normal straight ahead position.

Sitting back in the drivers seat, I could then carefully lift the airbag and set it between the two upper spokes on my 3 spoke M steering wheel. Alternatively, have a helper hold it slightly out of the way without pulling too hard, else the wires will pull loose.

With the airbag out of the way and looking into the center of the steering wheel, I can easily see the brass ring and the plastic housing/slipring housing that it is a part of. The backside of the brass ring rubs against the slipring housing, and after awhile, the entire area becomes dry.

Using a spray lubricant, (I used white lithium) or even a thin finger, one can easily smear the appropriate lubricant around the plastic area where the brass ring contacts. This time I placed the red straw that comes with cans of lubricants just between the ring and plastic backing, and sprayed tiny amounts. If you carefully rotate the steering wheel, you can get to each section of the brass ring/plastic.

Replace airbag, tighten airbag bolts, and squeak is gone.

This was for a 1999 M3 convertible with 3 spoke steering wheel. Cant speak for other E36 steering wheels.

This worked a treat for me, thanks!

By the way, the squeek/squeel will most probably be coming from the bottom bearing. Mine sounded like it was coming directly out of the back of the steering wheel, but after heavily lubing the bottom bearing, it completely solved the noise.

Many thanks!

After dealing with the intermittent squeek for a year, then couple months ago it started grinding. The worst part was failure to return to center after a turn... most dangerous. It would act up for a day or two. Then disappear for a week or two.

I read through these posts (thanks mucho guys) and decided to lubricate the spindle bearing (the one up by the firewall.) Not having carjacks, I went to a local hobby shop and bought 2ft of small gas line hose for remote control cars. This fit over the existing spray tube for the TriLube. With this setup I was able to drop the hose down along the engine and with one hand point it upward to the bearing. Then hit the spray nozzle with the other hand.

Immediately, all noise/grind disappeared from the steering column when I took it out for a drive. Nice. Thanks, again for the info.

fix works like a charm... but for some reason the white lithium I used smells like the anesthesia before surgery does! :eek:

Hi Guys!! great thread!

My 1991 E36 just developed a slight squeak during low speed turns on center.. I just would like to check with you all, on my RHD car, is this where you spray the penetrating grease into? (red arrow)


http://www.e-tuningshop.com/images/brakes_suspension/steering-squeak-1.JPG

Yes, basically just cover all of that area with some decent lubricating oil, dont hold back. I used motorcycle chain-lube. Penetrating oil like WD40 etc will cure the squeek for a couple of days until it evaporates. Use a decent lube.

Also, it wouldn't hurt to give that universal joint a good blast while your their imo.

COVER that u-joint with grease (chain lube or white lithium grease) and spray that part with the spring too if you wish. Be liberal, if you miss and get it all over the engine bay, who cares, it's an engine bay - It gets dirty in there.

I have a cosmo(s? I've forgotten now, doesn't matter for this post though) intake, and it's really easy to remove. If you take it off real quick, or push it out of the way, with some reaching and crafty bending of the little 5" spray tube, you can practically reach the lower joint from above. Doing this will probably offer better coverage due to gravity drippage. Spray, turn the steering wheel half a turn, and spray again to really get this stuff covered. I did also spray from underneath the car, and found the straws so much of a pain in the ass to use, I basically just aimed and snipered the joints using the included 5" tube. Worked fine as well, but also made a mess ;)

If you are worried about your garage floor, you may want to lay down a piece of cardboard under where you are spraying, since this stuff will drip - and it is going to drip if you have used enough lube.

I used chain lube on both U-Joints of my steering column and I've have NOT heard the noise since. I did this back in '04 when this thread was first made. Before then for the past 2 years, it happened ALL the time when turning the wheel more than half a rotation in either direction.

I've had my e36 m3 for 14 months now and have had that squeak almost the entire time. I just assumed I would have to remove the wheel and airbag since that's where it sounds like it's coming from. I haven't been adventurous enough to do that but I'll soak the crap out of that lower bearing and pray for rain. Like others on this board, I seem to have the omnipresent can of chain wax, even though my bike for the last five years has been shaft driven. This is why I kept it I suppose!

g

yeah drilling the hole in the column was a great quick fix my column went from soundng like it was locking up like new

Oh thank God I found this thread, I hate that F'king noise!

Thank you:urtheman

MAGIC- Thank you. My wife's wheel was squeaking/grinding so much I thought I waited too long and had developed a more significant problem. Like so many others though, it was the lower end of the column-spray the hell out of it and it's like new.

Just to say thanks for the excellent Writeup and advice... I bought my 318iS about 3 months ago and the squeek came as part of the package I guess. It's on 191000 kms (118000 miles) and I thought it was just some wear over time thing...

Well, I took a look in the engine bay and, since my BMW is South-African (RHD) , there is was. So I grabbed some penetrating oil lubricant and sprayed it and what do you know... all gone...

So just a big thanks to everyone especially Partokloss for his writeup... Now to fix the RTABs... :P

dang i have 158,xxx on my 328is and its starting to squeek every now and then, looks like im guna to be doing this diy this weekend.

OK you made a beliver out of me. I was sure it was in the steering wheel. Lubed the lower bearing while changing starter. The car starts great. The noise is gone. But now the automatic seems to start in 4th, or third if I move the lever back. Fuses are good. Any ideas?

Excellent post and the pics is definitive

Thats column is the main problem...

I greased mine up and gues what NO SQUEAK yayyyyyyyyyy

Squeeky steering wheel. Yep, got that too. Along with airbag lights that wont go out and OBC clock lights that wont come on, Im quickly discovering that many of us suffer from the same problems. Considering I have 134k miles on my car, I guess I should feel lucky its not something nasty. Ive had engines blow out on me at 130k miles in some of my domestic shitboxes, this car runs like a top.

OK you made a beliver out of me. I was sure it was in the steering wheel. Lubed the lower bearing while changing starter. The car starts great. The noise is gone. But now the automatic seems to start in 4th, or third if I move the lever back. Fuses are good. Any ideas?

your car is in manual mode, the switch with the A and M on it near the shifter and the cigarette lighter - fiddle with it and it's corresponding wires if pushing 'A' does not help.

Wicked writeup, I brought my first BMW month ago and it came with this same squeek. .... I'll be under her tomorrow with the spray. Will like to get this fixed before my drive back from Spain next month. Cheers

This worked like a charm. I used a long piece of vinyl tubing that people use for breathing oxygen, and Castrol Chain Wax. Worked beautifully. thanks for the awesome tip and write up. A+!

Hmm, mine does this but only when it's cold out and the car hasn't warmed up yet, or if I turn the steering wheel really far. Definitely annoying though, will be fixing this soon.

Thanks, great post!

Excellent writeup....But!! I did all of the above and it still squeaks. Could it be because I have a 99 M3 E36? I believe the set up is a little bit different. Please help!

I did this twice, the first time it didn't work but the second time i really saturated everything and I think i fixed it. I just used White lithium grease. you have to make sure you are hitting the right spot... It's all the way up kind of behind the brake booster

Lotsa reading to do today

I did this also on my 99 m3 and still have the eek eek. It is not that bad, maybe I'll try again when I decide to change my steering wheel.

I don't know if the 1999 has a different setup, but I will reiterate that white lithium grease is probably not the best option for the lower steering spindle. You need something that will penetrate the joints. White lithium grease in my experience is too thick... If you still have squeak issues try Tri-Flow or something along those lines, and follow the instructions to the letter. I posted this writeup over three years ago and my initial application of Tri-Flow is still working great... No squeak.

YMMV.

Awesome writup!
Going to get some motorcycle chain lube tomorrow and try.
My '91 320 I bought used couple weeks ago is squeaking a bit.

Is the bearing accessible from atop the engine bay?

i'm more pissed off now than i was before i lubed the lower bearing. i have a rhd car, half a can of old lube its 8.00 at night in the pitch black and i just got rid of that fcukin annoying squeek that i lived with for the last four years. it took me like a minute and a half, i cant believe i hadnt even looked in the diy section to try and fix this before, what a dick!!!!!!!!!!!! grr, at least its gone and the steering's reaallly smooth.

i'm more pissed off now than i was before i lubed the lower bearing. i have a rhd car, half a can of old lube its 8.00 at night in the pitch black and i just got rid of that fcukin annoying squeek that i lived with for the last four years. it took me like a minute and a half, i cant believe i hadnt even looked in the diy section to try and fix this before, what a dick!!!!!!!!!!!! grr, at least its gone and the steering's reaallly smooth.
Hmm, thanks would have been nice. :stickoutt

sorry, not braggin'. i am genuinely mad at myself,:(.

I've tried this fix b4 and yes it does work, but the squeek comes back. Then do it again and it goes away but then it comes back. Usually when it's cold. Once it comes back it stays and the whole cycle repeats itself. I've used WD-40, Liquid Wrench Super Lubricant and a whole host of other super penetrating lubes and same old story.

I don't know if this is a 'FIX'. More like band aid solution. After the fifth time, I give up...It's annoying, but jacking up my ride and doing this crazy straw thing every couple of months and smelling like petroleum products afterwards is even more annoying.

I've tried this fix b4 and yes it does work, but the squeek comes back. Then do it again and it goes away but then it comes back. Usually when it's cold. Once it comes back it stays and the whole cycle repeats itself. I've used WD-40, Liquid Wrench Super Lubricant and a whole host of other super penetrating lubes and same old story.

I don't know if this is a 'FIX'. More like band aid solution. After the fifth time, I give up...It's annoying, but jacking up my ride and doing this crazy straw thing every couple of months and smelling like petroleum products afterwards is even more annoying.
That may be true in Canada; I live on the coast of California so I have no idea how cold weather factors in. YMMV.

All I know is that in my case, one application has been working fine for several years now. I really didn't expect it to last this long; when I first wrote this I figured it would be more of a regular maintenance sort of thing. But so far, so good... If anything changes I will update the thread.

Tried this out a couple of weeks ago and it worked fine. However, I learned that you don't have do this from under the car. If you know exactly what to aim for it is easier to do it from above the engine-gravity is on your side. If you are a novice like me, you may need to get under the car anyway as it is easier to figure out where the bearing is that you're lubricating. But it is cleaner and simpler to actually lubricate the bearing when you are looking down on it.

Tried this out a couple of weeks ago and it worked fine. However, I learned that you don't have do this from under the car. If you know exactly what to aim for it is easier to do it from above the engine-gravity is on your side. If you are a novice like me, you may need to get under the car anyway as it is easier to figure out where the bearing is that you're lubricating. But it is cleaner and simpler to actually lubricate the bearing when you are looking down on it.
You want easy? As mentioned earlier in this thread, the easiest way is to drill a small hole in the steering column tube under the dash, and then spray a liberal amount of silicone spray down it. Takes about 15 minutes and you do