Amber had to be back for some stuff at church, so we headed back early, but we never did see any rain. The clouds kept the temperatures down, too.

Unfortunately the group did have a scare with a one car off road excursion, but everyone seemed to be fine when we left. I can't say the same about the car, though. I'll let the driver (Vic?) provide more detail.

Hopefully the guys that continued on had good luck.

which car was it, don't know a Vic...

Green E36 M3 - 4 door

Yeah, sorry about the car that flew off the side of the mountain. :(

I would not recommend a mountain drive as a place to learn the limits of your car and driving ability as there is NO margin for error if you mess up. The side of a mountain is not the place to drive over your head.

Not intending to chastise the guy who flew off, I am very glad he is ok. He has my sympathy as the lesson was already expensive enough.

IMO, the place to learn the limits of your vehicle and how to properly drive it should be done in a controlled and safe environment... such as a Peachtree Chapter BMWCCA HPDE at Road Atlanta or similar where you might have an instructor in the car, some classroom time, and some run-off room incase you make a mistake (and believe me, you WILL). Autocross school can also teach some very valuable car control skills.

Nobody is born a perfect driver, and just because you are a good street driver doesn't mean you really understand vehicle dynamics or what to do in an emergency situation.


I'm glad nobody was hurt and this is not intended towards the driver who went off as much as it is for potentially reducing the chances of anybody trying to drive over their head on the next trip.

BTW, always brake in a straight line. Braking while turning will overload your tires. I suspect this is what caused the "incident" today. :(


Up until that, it was a very enjoyable ride. Nice meeting everybody!

hope the driver and car are okay :eek:

Yeah, sorry about the car that flew off the side of the mountain. :(

I would not recommend a mountain drive as a place to learn the limits of your car and driving ability as there is NO margin for error if you mess up. The side of a mountain is not the place to drive over your head.

Not intending to chastise the guy who flew off, I am very glad he is ok. He has my sympathy as the lesson was already expensive enough.

IMO, the place to learn the limits of your vehicle and how to properly drive it should be done in a controlled and safe environment... such as a Peachtree Chapter BMWCCA HPDE at Road Atlanta or similar where you might have an instructor in the car, some classroom time, and some run-off room incase you make a mistake (and believe me, you WILL). Autocross school can also teach some very valuable car control skills.

Nobody is born a perfect driver, and just because you are a good street driver doesn't mean you really understand vehicle dynamics or what to do in an emergency situation.


I'm glad nobody was hurt and this is not intended towards the driver who went off as much as it is for potentially reducing the chances of anybody trying to drive over their head on the next trip.

BTW, always brake in a straight line. Braking while turning will overload your tires. I suspect this is what caused the "incident" today. :(


Up until that, it was a very enjoyable ride. Nice meeting everybody!
Geordie has posted general info like this before, but it may make sense for us to come up with some general rules/guidelines for each drive.

From what I saw, I think the balance of the car was already upset going into that turn. That, coupled with the hard braking while turning, looks to be what caused the accident. Had there been any kind of shoulder there everything would've been fine.

hope the driver and car are okay :eek:

The driver seemed fine, which was a BIG relief.

The car... well.. hmm, I hope they total it out so he can get a check for it. I sure wouldn't want to fix it. It went down a steep hill and hit a few trees for sure (maybe even rolled, :dunno ).

damn, seems like an m3 is lost everyday on this board :(

Geordie has posted general info like this before, but it may make sense for us to come up with some general rules/guidelines for each drive.

I guess I missed this. Sorry if it had been posted but I never saw it. If I never saw it, what makes me think anybody else has seen it?


From what I saw, I think the balance of the car was already upset going into that turn. That, coupled with the hard braking while turning, looks to be what caused the accident. Had there been any kind of shoulder there everything would've been fine.

Again, if this guy was a master autocrosser or graduate of a drivers school, the car would not have been out of balance, nor would he have been on the brakes while turning. I know you aren't trying to argue here. I am just emphasizing that this is not the place to learn your car's limits. :)

The best thing we can do here is learn from this experience so that nobody ever does get hurt if/when there is a next time.

The front left shock tower was sticking outside the fender - it looked like all corners of the car were beaten up, but the cabin looked fine (except that the bottom cushion from the back seat was laying on the ground). The windshield didn't even have a crack as far as I could tell.

I'm 99% sure I heard it roll at least a couple of times. Not a good feeling to sit there listening to a car go down a hill, especially when you can't see how fast it's all happening. :( Add to the fact that we couldn't park the car right there (that would have caused a much bigger problem), and you have two very worried people. Amber was pretty shaken up after seeing that.

The only thing that matters is that no one is hurt. This is another case where a well built car kept the driver out of harm's way.

The driver seemed fine, which was a BIG relief.

The car... well.. hmm, I hope they total it out so he can get a check for it. I sure wouldn't want to fix it. It went down a steep hill and hit a few trees for sure (maybe even rolled, :dunno ).

:eek: Holy Crap! :eek: Glad he is OK!

I am just emphasizing that this is not the place to learn your car's limits. :)

The best thing we can do here is learn from this experience so that nobody ever does get hurt if/when there is a next time.

I absolutely agree. Hopefully there won't be a next time. Nice meeting you today by the way.

I'll dig up Geordie's old post with guidelines, etc.

I guess I missed this. Sorry if it had been posted but I never saw it. If I never saw it, what makes me think anybody else has seen it?

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=181877

The first post, especially the part in bold. It's not as detailed as yours, but the same general idea.

The first post, especially the part in bold. It's not as detailed as yours, but the same general idea.

ok, you win! :embarrasm

In moving forward, maybe a mountain drive guidelines thread can be created and stickied? I am just thinking of ways we can prevent this sort of stuff in the future.

The fact of the matter stands. No matter how many "guidelines" or "helpful advice" you toss around on this board, people will always do what they want, when they want, how they want, with their own lives. After all, we don't even obey the posted speed limits put in place by law enforcement. What makes anyone think they are going to obey "Bimmerforums" speed limits? :rolleyes:

Some of you will say that if someone acts up on the drives, we will just kick them off. Well, with what authority? Sorry, but the buck stops at the foot of the forum moderadors when it comes to putting these so-called "laws" into place. And all they do is tell us not to say bad words. OOOOOOOOOOOOH.

For the record, I am glad whoever that was is okay.

Does Vic post on this board....just trying to remeber folks with a Green E36 M3 4? Glad to hear everyone was alright in the end.

-Clayton

damn. will we ever make it without incidents?

ok, you win! :embarrasm

In moving forward, maybe a mountain drive guidelines thread can be created and stickied? I am just thinking of ways we can prevent this sort of stuff in the future.

yeah...here they are. (all in good fun, mind you)

1. don't drive like a dumbass
2. you're not mario andretti
3. don't drive like a dumbass
4. just because someone else is driving like a dumbass doens't mean you have to give in to peer pressure
5. mountains are dangerous, dont' drive like a dumbass.
6. slow down, enjoy the scenery
7. stop driving like a dumbass

I've been on a couple of mountain drives...none with you guys...EVERY SINGLE ONE of them, someone has to prove they're a better driver than anyone else...I drew the line with a bunch of porsche guys when a couple of them started passing on the blind downhill double-yellows up there...

sjd

I (touareg guy) had a great time too and I'm sorry to see somebody went off. I didn't know the guy or the car but he had a rollbar in it so I assumed he had some experience with this stuff. Having said that, I've been at the racetrack more weekends than I can remember and it doesn't prepare you for mountain driving. An autocross might be better preparation, except there's hills and lots of factors affecting weight transfer besides the driver. One big difference between mountain driving and motorsports are 'obstacles' in your way, such as oncoming traffic and bicyclists.

This isn't a criticism of Geordie, but I'm very surprised there was no safety pep talk or sharing of past 'incidents'. I feel like I have a lot of driving experience and I still had an 'oh shit' moment or two. I could just imagine some of these younger guys doing spirited driving for the first time. As Colin said, a mountain is not the place to realize you're in over your head. I think perhaps the leaders (Ryan and Geordie) should have stopped more often than they did to calm things down a little. Retaining focus for more than 20 minutes or so is hard, that's why the track sessions at Road Atlanta are about 25 minutes long.

Geordie sacrifices a lot to make these things happen and I'll attend again and again even if nothing changes. Like somebody said, we're big boys with big toys and responsible for our own actions. I kinda wish I didn't go, I'll have to pic up a Miata or Z3 now just for these kind of things. I usually get my jollies out on the track but there is a certain rush to mountain drives.

In spite of the obvious problem, it was a great day! :buttrock

he had a rollbar in it

I wasn't aware of this - the car looked completely stock from what I could see while behind him. Maybe that's why the cabin didn't cave in at all.

I wasn't aware of this - the car looked completely stock from what I could see while behind him. Maybe that's why the cabin didn't cave in at all.

Just what I heard, no idea if it's true.

maybe he just wanted to test how well the roll bar worked?

maybe he just wanted to test how well the roll bar worked?
:lol:
by crashing down a hill?

Damn you guys are mean as hell. The edit button works well.

Making fun of the guy is not cool at all, i'm sure today was a very bad day for him as well as tomorrow will be when realization hits. Krisko is correct, after a certain amount of driving you start to lose your concentration and energy (you're using alot of glucose up there!) and this inhibits your driving (RE: why I buy so much shit at that gas station, lol) I'm glad he came out alright, but i'm sure he's very upset right now :(

well, after the incident, amazingly, we FINALLY completed the extended drive route. We always seemed to find a way to cut the route short for various reasons but this time we did the whole shebang: Wolfpen Gap, Richard B Russell, Unicoi Gap, and Blood Mountain, etc. So in that regard this has got to be the most fun drive I've been at.

And it was good to see all the people rushing to help Vic. Me and a bunch of guys immediately headed down into the valley on foot to find the car. Unfortunately we ended up way further down the mountain than the car (it had gone down only about 30 feet). So we had to run straight up the hill. Ahh.. takes me back to my Army days, 'cept i had better climbing shoes back then.

And the turnout was fantastic, and I really hope everyone had a great time. Lots of new faces that I hope become regulars here :)

i dont know if anyone was making fun of him, just handing out pointers to others so that this kind of stuff wouldnt happen to another one of us. Sure he's upset right now, but its not like us crying about it is gonna change anything or make him feel any better. Even if we are making light of the situation, we first made sure he was okay and safe.

And it was good to see all the people rushing to help Vic. Me and a bunch of guys immediately headed down into the valley on foot to find the car. Unfortunately we ended up way further down the mountain than the car (it had gone down only about 30 feet). So we had to run straight up the hill.

That was a very steep hill. :)

I'm just hoping none of that was poison oak/poison ivy. I didn't really care at the time.

I wish we would've continued on with you guys. Hopefully we can do the full route next time. How long did it take?

Poison ivy sucks. What sucks even more is someone closing your thread when you have it. :mad:

Im sorry to hear about the off tracker, any pics of the carnage?

i dont know if anyone was making fun of him, just handing out pointers to others so that this kind of stuff wouldnt happen to another one of us. Sure he's upset right now, but its not like us crying about it is gonna change anything or make him feel any better. Even if we are making light of the situation, we first made sure he was okay and safe.

RE: you guys saying he was dumb enough to crash on purpose to test his roll bars.

that not true now. I was just replying to another comment with a question, not a "you are dumb" response ;)

Sorry to the guy who went off....thank goodness no one got hurt except an ego (perhaps)

I couldn't make it to the drive though. I was too TIRED and my car needs a new TPS and I didn't get it in yet :mad:

Its very easy to get carried away in a group drive. Never let the fact that someone gets out of sight in a turn or down a hill make you think you can do likewise at the same pace. So many things can go wrong, its a matter of staying within our limits as drivers. Mountain drives are all for fun primarily,nothing else is meant to be proven.

does no one have pics or a video? did anyone not video the meet?

The sentiment has been "it's only a matter of time" for a while now. It's unfortunate it came true, but inevitable, I think.

Glad that there was no human cost as a result of this accident. Things can be replaced, but people cannot be.

Vic the guy that crashed that car came with me to the drive. What actually happened was he was behind me and i started to break away a lilttle bit and then i dont think he could see my brake light or any of the turn in points and he had said that he was trying to keep up. Then he came into the corner that he crashed in and didn't get off of the brakes and the car just understeered straight off.
The most inportant parts about it is he is okay. I will say it again an m3 is a safe car.
P.S. the car was completely stock and did not have a roll bar or anything

P.S. the car was completely stock and did not have a roll bar or anything

That's funny...I was in two different conversations where I heard he had a rollbar.

The really bad part about mountain drives is all the obstacles...cars coming the other way and bicyclists. Very cool but I'd say as dangerous or more dangerous than a track event. I guess it depends upon your mindset going into it.

I completely agree with you especially about the bikers. because you come around those corners that are completely blind and and you would have no way of knowing what is ont the other side such as a biker or a car. Such as in Vic's case i think that he was lucky that their was no one comming the other direction at the time.

On a different topic i was extremely surprised that the cop that came wrote him a ticket for faluire to mantain lanes. After that the cop said well if you want another ticket i can write you a few more or if you want it can take you to jail. I thought that was pretty lame. The cop was also extremely rude but oh well there isnt anything that you can do about it.

you know, i was flying through those turns (flying in respect to driving the e30) and that turn looked the most tricky. Was like a 2-part turn, first part made the turn look pretty fast, as it was relatively long. then out of no where, it switches back and takes an apex dip which can seriously upset the car if dont know its there.... and here i come, a little ways back from the person infront of me and bam, people in the middle of the road, like whoa!
I might have pictures of his car from the stop before the mtns... but now i feel like an ass because i dont like green cars and got a shot of everyones car but his :-\

On a different topic i was extremely surprised that the cop that came wrote him a ticket for faluire to mantain lanes. After that the cop said well if you want another ticket i can write you a few more or if you want it can take you to jail. I thought that was pretty lame. The cop was also extremely rude but oh well there isnt anything that you can do about it.

What did you think the cop would do?

Anytime there is an accident and the cops are there, its almost mandatory they right a ticket for something no matter what.

I would say Vic failed to maintain his lane. I'm sure he could have gotten worse. Not sure why the cop was an ass but maybe he thought he was letting Vic go easy with just one ticket and felt like he was getting some crap for it? As in, maybe the driver was being ungrateful he was getting off so easy. :dunno

and I agree with krisko...

It depends on the pace/speed of the mountain drive, but at the faster moments it can definately be more dangerous than a track event (especially for those who don't know how to drive in a performance setting).

This just makes a good example to slow down and enjoy the drive!

First and foremost, I'm glad Vic's okay. Another testiment to the safety of these cars.

And regarding me and Ryan stopping more often to cool down...give me a break. If someone is going to push their car to its limits, stopping an extra of couple of times isn't going to keep them from doing that. Besides, it would add a lot of time to an already long trek by adding more stops...we did it before and won't do it again. There's just too many cars. We're all adults here, and if someone wants to push their car, they're going to do it regardless.

I take no responsibility for anything that happens up there, I just organize these things. You guys can try to point fingers at whomever, but in the end it comes down to the driver. Again, I hate it for Vic, as it wasn't his car and he didn't know the road. But hell guys...I could set up tutorials and classroom sessions 'till the cows come home about "how this isn't for pushing your car" and all of that other BS, and it won't make a difference...any given person at any given time will drive how they want to, and no amount of preparation from anyone but the driver's end is going to help someone when they get in over their head.

I personally had a blast the whole day. My tires and brakes are trashed (yes, I was throttle braking most of the day) but it was worth it! :buttrock

After the end of the run, The Chemist and one other guy (white 95 M3, sorry I forgot your screenname bud!) and I got separated from the rest of the pack. Upon turning onto 515/76/5(?) heading toward Ballground, we wisely agreed to keep our speeds under 85 mph. We went through one speed trap where we saw the cop hesitate as he lowered his gun and looked like he was going to jump in the car and come after us, but we lucked out.

I was behind Krisko when he nicked his tire on the freaking curb that they put up on the inside of one of the curves at one point. I think thats where I stabbed my already warm and worn brakes almost to the point of failure.

My only suggestion is that perhaps we break the number of cars down even further to groups of 5 or 6 on each leg. Otherwise, it was a blast and I'd do it again tomorrow.

I take no responsibility for anything that happens up there, I just organize these things.

Geordie,

Dude, you took my comment the wrong way. It's great that you sacrifice a ton of your time and cel minutes to pull these things off. I just remember looking around at the gas station and seeing a lot of young guys and thinking there might be a problem. And chances are, a safety class with charts, guest speakers, and video tapes wouldn't have slowed that bunch down.

Maybe we could use restrictor plates?:dunno

Thanks again for a great event. I'll be doing this in the future with a more appropriate vehicle next time.

Yea I agree with most of the opinions expressed here. I also had a great time meeting everyone and doing the drive. If only you guys were closer I would attend regularly but it's a 2hr+ drive.

One thing I didn't like was the food at the place we stopped, I think the chicken fingers had something wrong with them made me sick on the way back. I guess that's what I get after our waitress hit me with the door when I left to get my camera. Then coming back from the bathroom she yet again runs over me. Then add the food...Maybe the waitress wanted to get me back because I knocked something out of her hand the second time.

When that cop flashed his lights I though for sure he was going to pull one of us over, but he ended up pulling someone else over, I don't see how he could of missed our group

Anyway I had a safe trip back to Augusta with some spots of rain but not much. It was a great trip in all and I look forward to doing it again when you have another meet. Even though my car is stock I got a good idea on what to do, and picked up some good tips as well.
Besides the incident with the car which could have happened to anybody you planned a good trip Geordie and I agree if someone is going to push their car there is nothing you can do about it. It's their decision and he/she must live with the consequences either good or bad

My only suggestion is that perhaps we break the number of cars down even further to groups of 5 or 6 on each leg. Otherwise, it was a blast and I'd do it again tomorrow.

Good idea, except the last group off would have to wait over an hour to keep the groups from bunching up. And you would need 5 or 6 guys that know the route very well.

Perhaps we could take different routes, leave at the same time and end up where we started.

How many people showed for the meet/drive?

Good idea, except the last group off would have to wait over an hour to keep the groups from bunching up. And you would need 5 or 6 guys that know the route very well.

Perhaps we could take different routes, leave at the same time and end up where we started.


That's sounds logical to me.

This just makes a good example to slow down and enjoy the drive!

I want to add as well I had a great time, cooked my brakes as much as everyone did too!! And more importantly hopefully Vic is okay. But to quote Hornswoggler these drives are fun and at times you get "tempted" to push our cars which is okay but, I think we are missing some important elements of the drive, the scenery.

I think we should just slow down at times and just enjoy the ride. Sure, it's fun navigating those crazy mountain turns but, what's the fun if all we are doing is just speeding through the whole run? I dunno maybe it's just me but, there was a time after the last stop before heading back when I was just beat and to think about having to "speed" through the mountains again was just plain dumb and probably not safe. At that point, most of us are truly fatigued - even though we won't admit it - :)

Going up is not too bad but, why not just "cruise" through on the way back and enjoy it?? My $0.02.. :cool:

Oonagh and I had a blast. Thanks Geordie!

As for those of you who go on these drives and think you are some kind of professional racecar driver, GROW UP! I think Geordie is a little off when he says we are all adults. There were most defiantly a few children up there yesterday. Please be safe.

I took it really easy heading back - it's amazing how much longer it took, but it was a nice day for a drive up there, whether going fast or not.

On another note, the bike (not motorcycle) traffic up there really worried me. That's the first time I've seen them up there - is it common for this time of year or were there more than usual yesterday?

I took it really easy heading back - it's amazing how much longer it took, but it was a nice day for a drive up there, whether going fast or not.

On another note, the bike (not motorcycle) traffic up there really worried me. That's the first time I've seen them up there - is it common for this time of year or were there more than usual yesterday?

Very common to see cyclists up there... The ride is known as 3 gap
and it is a very popular ride location. Couple that with all the extra riders that come out of the woodwork come Tour de France time and I'm sure you see plenty of riders up there on the weekends.

Very common to see cyclists up there... The ride is known as 3 gap
and it is a very popular ride location. Couple that with all the extra riders that come out of the woodwork come Tour de France time and I'm sure you see plenty of riders up there on the weekends.

As I was saying yesterday: Who in their right mind would be bicycling up there know that all the crazies on motorcycles and sports cars are going to be wreaking havoc all over the roads?

I got stuck behind a cruiser yesterday at one point and he was scraping his pegs on every turn. It took a while before the road straightened out far enough that I could pass him. I think the guy in the Golf was behind me as well trying to pass me with no room to spare.

Man I really hate it for Vic. I am glad to hear he is OK. It sounds like it could have been alot worse. I would agree with the comments about setting some ground rules with more frequent stops. I have only had my M for a couple of months and I know it brings out the worst in me - regarless of what little common sense I have.

I really appreciate everyone that was involved with making this event happen. I would like to continue to do these drives, but I think we do probably need to have a quick pep talk / tire inspection / whatever just to keep everyone grounded.

Again to Vic and anyone that knows him - glad to hear you are still in one peice. I stand true to my earlier statement - it could have easily been any one of us that made the same mistake or lost control due to gravel, weather or any number of elements.

Just a few small safety reminders is all I would need to see.

Of course, I think some people blew it out of context by arguing against rules/laws/classroom time/etc. when all I really had in mind was a few simple reminders to take it easy.

I think we are all on the same page, just wording it differently. ;)

So the car wasn't even his? Oh man, that would suck. I would definately feel bad bringing that one home. :(

How many times can we possibly rehash the same points, people? Seriously.

1) Don't drive like an idiot.
2) Don't brake hard in sharp corners.
3) Don't treat the mountains as your own personal track.

Maybe if we keep saying it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over, it will finally sink in. Is that the thinking here?

Geordie and I (when I lead) both try our best to convey the dangers that are evident up there, both on the board and at the meet. For instance, yesterday, I asked several times that people leave 3-4 car lengths minimum, yet I was almost rear ended in one turn and saw several others completely disregarding my advice all day long. Its been said, several times, that this is not the place to test the limits of driver or vehicle.

It is impossible to control the actions of everyone on these drives. There is always the chance that someone will make a bad decision and have an accident. How do you enforce these "ground rules"? The fact is you can't. The only way to prevent it is to stop having the drives all together.

The only way to prevent it is to stop having the drives all together.

Perhaps that's the answer. It'd make some around here happy to stop having meets and drives and dinners and softball games.

The only way to prevent it is to stop having the drives all together.

Exactly.

I get tired of setting these damn drives up every couple of months just to have everyone scrutinize my every decision with regards to organization, route, safety, etc.

This is the last drive I'm leading.

Perhaps that's the answer. It'd make some around here happy to stop having meets and drives and dinners and softball games.

Funk that. I'd just start organizing them myself. I've definitely made some great new friends as a result of this board.

Just think, if it weren't for last year's softball game...

Funk that. I'd just start organizing them myself. I've definitely made some great new friends as a result of this board.

Just think, if it weren't for last year's softball game...

Obviously I'm only exaggerating to reiterate a point that I think I've made quite eloquently in the "This is not an OT forum" thread.

Exactly.

I get tired of setting these damn drives up every couple of months just to have everyone scrutinize my every decision with regards to organization, route, safety, etc.

This is the last drive I'm leading.

It's particularly frustrating to me, too, G. I think it hits closer to home for us because of where this place came from and how it got there -- Hooters to now.

Exactly.

I get tired of setting these damn drives up every couple of months just to have everyone scrutinize my every decision with regards to organization, route, safety, etc.

This is the last drive I'm leading.

:help

Geordie, why dont you just have secret drives. Thats what I do. Communicate under the radar about the drive, that way you only have to invite people you want to invite, and only people that are deemed safe...

:dunno

Geordie, why dont you just have secret drives. Thats what I do. Communicate under the radar about the drive, that way you only have to invite people you want to invite, and only people that are deemed safe...

:dunno

That's a good way to step on toes and alienate people.

Inevitably, word would get out. Then people wonder why they weren't invited. People get feelings hurt. Etc, etc, etc...

Group dynamic is an interesting, but delicate phenomenon.

I see...

:az:

I get tired of setting these damn drives up every couple of months just to have everyone scrutinize my every decision with regards to organization, route, safety, etc.

This is the last drive I'm leading.

This ain't what I intended by suggesting smaller groups and more stops. You said you tried it and it didn't work so that works for me.

People need to take these drives seriously...tech the car before you go. Make sure you have plenty of brake pad left and consider bleeding the brakes. Check your tires and remove crap that might fly around inside the car. No drinking and good sleep nite before a drive.

I hope this incident or whatever I said doesn't keep you from organizing another drive. That said, it would probably be nice to take a break from organizing. Volunteers...anybody?

It ultimately comes down to personal responsibility. If a person is unable to take responsibility for their actions that is not the organizer's fault.

I applaud Geordie and the other members who take time out of their personal schedule to organize events like this. By assigning any blame to them is just asinine.

It is also not their responsibility to check a participant's car nor their driving abilties to see if they meet a certain standard.

Just so it's clear, I don't blame Geordie or anybody else (except for the driver, maybe) one bit.

I am just trying to brainstorm on how to make this a better experience for the next time.

I did have a great time and I do appreciate the work that has gone into organizing this event. I hope to attend another in the future.

Bud I agree with your insight. I was thinking the same thing. Maybe we should some sort of limit for speed and turns. I dont mind getting to the top of the drive 5 minutes later but without any accidents. Those curves were SHARP and I myself had some difficulty keeping up with the group. Then agaiin I was in a loaner family wagon with family tires on it. Not all cars and specially not all drivers have the same skill level. We should be more careful on the mountains specially. Straights are OK but those curves were I believe a little sharp for F1 style driving. Very glad everyone is OK.

How do you set limits? Furthermore, how do you enforce those limits?

As far as I know, none of us are police. Even if we were, unless someone was a State Trooper, we would not have jurisdiction up in those mountains.

Those suggesting rules and guidelines and whatnot have your hearts in the right place, but your head isn't quite in the game.

People are going to do what they want to do, regardless of what any of us say.

To Vic, I am very glad you are alright and hope that you know everyone at BFC will be here for you, if you need anything.

Ron, I think you are right, we've exhausted the "causions" and "consequences".

Geordie, I'm sorry that you have to deal with the crap after the fact, but I know you love doing this and hope it does not deter you from doing it again.

And here is my $0.02:
I thought the whole point of having lead cars was because THEY KNOW THE ROAD. They know the lines to take and what speed is acceptable. But it doesn't matter what you do, it is inevitable whether you take 4 cars or 40 cars. The chance is still there, and that is what every driver needs to have in the back of their minds. You can't always control a car.

Exactly.

I get tired of setting these damn drives up every couple of months just to have everyone scrutinize my every decision with regards to organization, route, safety, etc.

This is the last drive I'm leading.

Geordie, I understand your frustration and some of the "criticisms" you have unwarrantedly received whether intentional or not. But, don't let the actions of a few dictate the future of these drives, dinners, etc., ruin it for the rest of us.

Don't know what can be done to "correct" this, but like everyone has said over and over again, let's just be adults about this, otherwise it becomes nothing more than irresponsible "teenage street racing".

Now enough of that and when's the next dinner?? :D

Tonight.

wow. i think a giant deep breath is needed.

Geordie, you know I support you 100% and in no way do I put a scintilla of responsibility on your part, but how are you "getting crap" on this thread?

All I have seen are ppl trying to propose ways of helping out. If they recommend a pep talk that shouldn't mean Geordie has to do it. We are all adults and if someone has a good idea maybe they should be the one to act on it.

And for those proposing solutions please realize that just because Geordie organizes these things he shouldn't have to be the one to do everything. We all have brains and mouths. We can post tips and warning to drivers who want to participate.

Overall what we dont need and what I dont think anyone is wanting is an escalating argument that ends in everyone paying the price by us just not doing stuff like this anymore. So lets just chalk this one up to driver inexperience or bad luck, whatever, shall we?

wow. i think a giant deep breath is needed.

Geordie, you know I support you 100% and in no way do I put a scintilla of responsibility on your part, but how are you "getting crap" on this thread?

All I have seen are ppl trying to propose ways of helping out. If they recommend a pep talk that shouldn't mean Geordie has to do it. We are all adults and if someone has a good idea maybe they should be the one to act on it.

And for those proposing solutions please realize that just because Geordie organizes these things he shouldn't have to be the one to do everything. We all have brains and mouths. We can post tips and warning to drivers who want to participate.

Overall what we dont need and what I dont think anyone is wanting is an escalating argument that ends in everyone paying the price by us just not doing stuff like this anymore. So lets just chalk this one up to driver inexperience or bad luck, whatever, shall we?

There's much more to it than just this thread, Mark. It's been a long time coming and he makes a very valid point. You gonna be at the dinner tonight?

If so, we'll discuss more candidly with you at that point.

If they recommend a pep talk that shouldn't mean Geordie has to do it. We are all adults and if someone has a good idea maybe they should be the one to act on it.

This is an excellent point...perhaps if one of the more experienced ones had voiced some concerns Vic wouldn't have gone off. Doubtful but who knows. How old is Vic by the way?

Hear, Hear, you don't see Montoya blaming McLaren for his temper and performance this year do you?? Or the other way around or.. Argh, who cares ENUFF!:)

G, one thing you have to understand is a point you keep reiterating....you have cautioned everyone and common sense should dictate that people can not drive balls-to-the-wall out there. If someone makes a comment saying anything that can be taken negatively, just ignore it. You have done your part and you can't control anything beyond that. If someone is bitching and moaning and pointing fingers...let them, it's just in poor taste.

If someone doesn't like how you have handled the situation...screw'em, it's their choice they came to the drive and they don't have to come next time. Even though I was not there this time, I thoroughly enjoy the meets and drives you put together and I appreciate the effort. Don't let a few bad apples ruin the bunch with negative comments. Also, it is very hard to judge someone's tone of voice in text, so try and take this with a light heart.

I am sorry to hear there was an incident on the drive, it sucks, but hey, shit happens.

Ron17: yup ill be there.

I wasn't complaining, I was just making suggestions. I still think we should have the monthly meets.

Get all this out of your systems now, I don't want this to be the main conversation at my party tonight. You are supposed to be crying your eyes out, begging us to stay in GA! :bluecry1:

Get all this out of your systems now, I don't want this to be the main conversation at my party tonight. You are supposed to be crying your eyes out, begging us to stay in GA! :bluecry1:



hahahahahaha best post of the day.

Get all this out of your systems now, I don't want this to be the main conversation at my party tonight. You are supposed to be crying your eyes out, begging us to stay in GA! :bluecry1:

Nancy, we tried that when Ryan told us you were leaving. He said that he hated us all and that he was glad to be getting out of ATL. It's a wonder any of us are even coming to the going-away dinner. ;)

Another thought about the drive is this, perhaps the mountain drives have been very safe. You have 40 cars tearing up roads that most of us don't know and the only incident is by a guy in a car that he does not own and may rarely drive. That's pretty impressive if you ask me.

Don't mean to hate on Vic, I'm just sayin'.

I was suprised (and very thankful) that we didn't have any other "issues" given the insanity on the run yesterday. No one got any tickets did they?

Another thought about the drive is this, perhaps the mountain drives have been very safe. You have 40 cars tearing up roads that most of us don't know and the only incident is by a guy in a car that he does not own and may rarely drive. That's pretty impressive if you ask me.

Don't mean to hate on Vic, I'm just sayin'.

Who is Vic? :confused:

My question to you is.....why would someone take a car they don't own on a "spirited" drive on roads they (I'm assuming) don't know? That's asking for trouble and just plain stupid. Even dumber for the person who lent out the car.

^^My opinion

Let us not villify the driver. Again, its just the proverbial straw.

A mistake was made. I have made a mistake before that almost cost me dearly. Geordie has, as well. We all have made grave errors.

Good idea, except the last group off would have to wait over an hour to keep the groups from bunching up. And you would need 5 or 6 guys that know the route very well.

Perhaps we could take different routes, leave at the same time and end up where we started.
that sounds very resonable.

I just want to clear things up so you guys can stop arguing. First off i want to say thank you to jason, goerdie and a few more people that was there making sure i was ok.. second it was my fault.. first time on that road and once i started going fast around those corners i kinda forget about everything else.. I didn't think i would be going that fast from the start, and it was my brother car.. if anything i wish it was my car.. i don't know about you guys but if would to wreck a car i would rather be my car.. and for the rest that was not there and talking shit.. everyone makes mistake.. don't talk if you don't know shit and don't even know me.. for the last time i want to thank jason, goerdie, nathan?, and a few more people that i forget their name that was there by my side after the accident.. you guys are very nice.. esp that fact that you don't know me that well.. and for the last time it was my fault and no one else..

and for the rest that was not there and talking shit.. everyone makes mistake.. don't talk if you don't know shit and don't even know me..

:clap:

AMEN!


This reminds me of a story back when I was in high school. It was my senior year in the electronics program and in working on my years project (an AC/DC variable power supply), I plugged in a transformer and it caught fire!

There was this annoying junior who kept running his mouth about it all class long, and at the end of the day, my teacher said to him:

"you know Mark, the only people who have never blown anything up are the people who have never hooked anything up."

... and he just shut up right then and there. :D

(disclaimer: this is not the same mark from this board. :) )

I think I can speak for most anybody who has tried to actually drive their car, has probably spun it or had some sort of incident.

I know :wave: have had an off-track excursion before! It happens to almost everybody at one time or another while learning how to actually drive.


It was a VERY big relief to see you were OK! Cars can be replaced, people cannot.

I just want to clear things up so you guys can stop arguing. First off i want to say thank you to jason, goerdie and a few more people that was there making sure i was ok.. second it was my fault.. first time on that road and once i started going fast around those corners i kinda forget about everything else.. I didn't think i would be going that fast from the start, and it was my brother car.. if anything i wish it was my car.. i don't know about you guys but if would to wreck a car i would rather be my car.. and for the rest that was not there and talking shit.. everyone makes mistake.. don't talk if you don't know shit and don't even know me.. for the last time i want to thank jason, goerdie, nathan?, and a few more people that i forget their name that was there by my side after the accident.. you guys are very nice.. esp that fact that you don't know me that well.. and for the last time it was my fault and no one else..

I am glad you are alright! I didn't have a chance to talk to everyone before they left on the drive. It always sucks to get in a wreck.. Even if it was not your fault and your car. It still sucks!
Hell I wrecked a car driving in the rain doing 40 in a 45.. You don't even have to be pushing it to go off the road.. It took me 4 months of chiropractic care to get back in shape..

It took me 4 months of chiropractic care to get back in shape..

... and we're still hopeful of your mental recovery.

:crazya:

... and we're still hopeful of your mental recovery.

:crazya:

No, we are thankful for the A/C in his car yesterday...HAHA

No, we are thankful for the A/C in his car yesterday...HAHA

Yes, I think we all are. :confused:

The parking lot at D&B was ridiculously hot. Over 100 cars, asphalt, 85 right next to the lot, and clear skies with the blazing hot sun overhead.

The A/C was most excellent

Vic...glad to hear that you are OK! I am glad you came here and said something. I can only imagine the difficulties that you are facing...and I do not wish that upon anybody. I hope that you are able to work things out!

As we were searching the woods for you...I was absolutely terrified. All day today I have had the image in my head of your car when I first caught sight of it...and it makes me tremble.

I cannot emphasize enough how happy I am that you were not seriously injurred!

Things can be replaced...people cannot!

jason

Just out of curiosity about how old is "Vic". Just wondering.

I gotta agree with Jason. It was a surreal feeling. We didnt know what was happening with you. When we heard you calling back to us, man that was a relief. Easily the weirdest 15 minutes of the day. Wow.

Thank goodness you were OK.

thank you jason for looking for me.. and other people too.. and Dean i turn 22 today.. yesterday was my last day of being 21.. i will remember it for the rest of my life..

On a different topic i was extremely surprised that the cop that came wrote him a ticket for faluire to mantain lanes. After that the cop said well if you want another ticket i can write you a few more or if you want it can take you to jail. I thought that was pretty lame. The cop was also extremely rude but oh well there isnt anything that you can do about it.

They're just that way cause someone has to get pulled out of a ditch every weekend, if not a couple of people. My grandpa and some of my family live up there near Blue Ridge and Blairsville. The locals up there, especially the law enforcement people get tired of us out-of-towners coming up there, tearing up the roads going way too fast, crashing or scaring the crap out of bikers, and then coming home. Of course it doesn't keep me from doing it too. The roads are just too good.:redspot

Wow! We were just talking about this thread a week or two ago!

Damn Noob, I use that term both literally and figuratively, way to resurrect a dead thread. 3 1/2 yrs old too!