I removed the AA rear strut tower bar from my M3 so that I could remove the Z3 reinforcement plates I had back there. In the process, I managed to strip one of the bolts that holds the strut bar together. So I wrote an email to AA, asking if I could purchase a replacement nut/bolt pair.

First response:
"You should get new RSM they cost about $23.00 ea."

Ummm...no. Let's try that again. "My RSM is fine.* It's the bolt/nut pair that attaches the brace bar to the brace endpieces that I need to replace."

Second response:
"It should be available at your local BMW dealer."

Strike two. I asked why my "local BMW dealer" should carry parts to bolt the three pieces of my AA strut brace together. Let's see what Mike Hugh comes up with this time...

Geesh corwyn, obviously you don't know what you're doing. Now go get a RSM and jamb in to the strut brace hinge point sideways... it'll work fine! :mdrbig

Hmmm...that's not to good...maybe they should take more time reading your emails!:(

Are you sure you explained it correctly????
Maybe it was a mis-communication

It seems pretty obvious what he is asking for to me. Replacement parts for the strut bar. It's plain english

Ok, so they told me I should have called them, and they don't appreciate me bashing them on a public forum. Sent me to the local hardware store. That's fine. The last time I called them, they weren't too willing to help me, either, so it's par for the course, as far as I'm concerned. I was hoping that maybe they had different people monitoring the email, but I guess not.

In all of my years in the BMW business I have never had a high opinion of the Customer Service at AA. Ask Oxcart about his AA chip... Tell them to go straight to hell for giving you a hard time about bashing them in a public forum. It's your right to speak out about your expirences. Someday people will figure out that AA are not the supreme BMW tuner that they think they are. They build a nice turbo kit and thats it. I could go on and on, but it's just not worth it.

Brian

Originally posted by corwyn


First response:
"You should get new RSM they cost about $23.00 ea."

dude...obviously you don't get it! you need new rsms! :)
j/k:wave:

Fred Hugh just told me that I should post their emails in their entirety. So here's the entire thread:

My original email:
I have the AA rear strut tower brace for the my '97 M3 coupe and have been very happy with it. Earlier today, thought, I had to remove it in order to access my RSMs, and I somehow damaged the threads to the nut (which, in turn, destroyed the threads on the bolt). Is it possible for me to purchase a replacement for each of these two parts? Thanks!

(Also, if you could please remind me of the proper torque for the bolt, it'd come in handy when I put the crossbar back in, and I'd really appreciate it!)

[Ok, maybe that wasn't worded so well, and there's that random extra "the" I put in there...]

The response:
You should get new RSM they cost about $23.00 ea.

My response to that (keeping in mind that my first email maybe wasn't so clear):
My RSM is fine. It's the bolt/nut pair that attaches to the brace endpieces that I need to replace. Thanks!

Mike's response:
Sorry, I was presuming it was the RSM bolts you had damaged. Is it the 2 bolts that hold the brace in place to the end brackets? I was trying to
help but understand you are taking pleasure in bashing us on a public board, as I am now informed. I am sorry, and do apologize for being too dumb to deal with, but at least we always try to satisfy our not too learned customers. How about calling your local nut and bolt store in the
yellow pages for a metric bolt and nut replacement. It should be a lot cheaper and easier, Correct.....

Fred's response:
Do not appreciate undue bashing for misinterpretation of your problem. Call me to air your complaint, if I cannot resolve your problem then let loose, I will not get into public forays for these trivial discrepancies, especially when this is a clear matter of miscommunication.

My response to that:
Well, the last time I called, I got a couple of people very disinterested in helping me. I was hoping your email folks might be more willing. Sorry for presuming you have any concerns for customer service or support.

Fred's final response:
It is always good to know who you spoke to, especially on the phone. emails at AA are difficult at times as the volume is overwhelming and we do try to answer all. Your presumptions might be wrong, for we do have concerns for
our customers, for at AA they are our reason to be in business. Your accusations are unfounded, and our emails should be posted in the context
and good faith presented, not in a one sided and distorted manner as you seem fit.



This last email shows that they don't bother to read anything. "Your presumptions might be wrong"...hrm. I said that I had presumed that they "have any concerns for customer service or support." So my presumption that they have concern for customer service might be wrong? They've thus far shown me no concern for customer service, not even enough to carefully read emails asking for help. My accusations are not unfounded.

There you go, Fred. I thought I was doing you a favor by not posting your last emails, but apparently I was wrong. Happy?

hmm......

sounds like this is snow balling into something here.

I've worked a few years in customer service, and there is one thing I've learned is that the customer is mostly right and when they are wrong, you have to tell them as politely as possible (bite the bullet and clear up the mis-cimmunication).

takes one disgruntled customer to give a company a bad rep, even if you have 1000 satisfied customers.

its something like for every 1 person they tell about a good experience with a business they will tell 7x that many people for a bad experience

On the other hand, you probably could have gone to a hardware store and got the stuff you needed in the amount of time you spend writing all this. Not declaring sides.. I just always try to find the quickest and cheapest answer, and that would have been my choice.

Originally posted by Stockman
its something like for every 1 person they tell about a good experience with a business they will tell 7x that many people for a bad experience

exactly, a customer who is satisfied may never tell anyone, but un-happy customers will tell the world.

I think we're past the point of pointing fingers, maybe this would be a good time for AA to look at there service dept. and see what could be improved (un-educated customer and all).

My good and bad experiences with obtaining BMW parts.

Good experience(s):
Turner Motorsport (exceptional service)
UUC Motorwerks
Eastern Motorwerks
BMP Design
HMS Motorsport (exceptional service)
Bavarian Autosport (exceptional all but one time)
Pacific BMW
RimPro
Ron Stygar (whoops, sorry, forgot this one)

Bad experiences:
Bavarian Autosport (once, during Christmas season)
Active Autowerke (twice, out of two times)

I think there's something else going on with the boys in FL. I really do. This doesn't sound like them. But the last time I called it was like there was an undercurrent of distrust. I usually write it off to me being a customer of a competitors product (MechTech) but it seemed somehow different.....

Hmmmm. Hope things are well for all.

And I don't blame you for wanting to have the actual mounting hardware. It probably looks nicer. I know the Dinan stuff looks good. Don't have a clue what the AA hardware looks like.

I suggest you call and see if both sides want to kiss and makeup. And maybe they'll give up that DTM bad-boy attitude ;)

All a BIG misunderstanding between people... I say let it go.

I havent ever dealt with them but it appears to be more then some isolated misunderstanding

<i>understand you are taking pleasure in bashing us on a public board, as I am now informed. I am sorry, and do apologize for being too dumb to deal with, but at least we always try to satisfy our not too learned customers</i>

this is absurd. not interested in repeat business, apparently.

I don't think it is appropriate to publicly carry on about an isolated incident with a vendor. You stated your problem with them, now, like Willy said, let it go. And, I don't think it's appropriate to bash other forums about their "bad boy attitude" if in fact the DTM thing was refering to another forum. If not, then I misinterpreted that statement, and I'm sorry (Jim). Everyone has good and bad experiences with vendors, in my opinion the quality of their products is the important thing. I can be a dick myself, so I can write off one incident of bad customer service, as long as I am satisfied with the product. :nono

This is getting way too overblown. If you don't like what happened, just don't give them business.
I second Stylin: Let it be water under the bridge



:clap:

I have been seriously conisdering giving some big bucks to AA for a turbo kit in the future, but the way they have acted here is rediculous, I'm definately going to think twice about them now!! I don't want my baby in the hands of a bunch that has acted rude to a customer (in my opinion) like this, especially for something as big as a turbo kit!:eek:
Bashing is not the correct term either, it's simply relaying an experience, which seems fair to me since we live in AMERICA for cryin out loud!!:mad:

Corwyn, for the record, I don't think you did anything wrong!

I disagree. Plus, regardless of their service, they make an excellent product. I could care less if they were rude to someone, just as long as I get what I want, when I want it and it runs properly.
Now, if what happened to Corwyn happens to me personally, I'll think again about a purchase. But not until then.

*done w/ this thread*

Originally posted by ChrisFL
This is getting way too overblown. If you don't like what happened, just don't give them business.
I second Stylin: Let it be water under the bridge



:clap:

It's not overblown at all, I am glad he posted this thread, because I like to see comments on vendors before I deal with them, and just for that reason it's just fine he let us know about this!

Originally posted by back_in_black
I don't think it is appropriate to publicly carry on about an isolated incident with a vendor. You stated your problem with them, now, like Willy said, let it go. And, I don't think it's appropriate to bash other forums about their "bad boy attitude" if in fact the DTM thing was refering to another forum. If not, then I misinterpreted that statement, and I'm sorry (Jim). Everyone has good and bad experiences with vendors, in my opinion the quality of their products is the important thing. I can be a dick myself, so I can write off one incident of bad customer service, as long as I am satisfied with the product. :nono

'nuff said

Bump to top! Our rules regarding derogatory comments about vendors have been lifted until fuurther notice.

Bob ///M3



[Disregard the original message in this post. This post has been edited by Bob ///M3.]

The following section is part of our Rules. Even though it specifically addresses discussing situations with "supporting" vendors directly (instead of "about" vendors) it is meant to address members discussing ANY vendor in a negative manner and how it is inappropriate to do so. Reading this section of our Rules should give everyone a pretty clear idea that jumping on a vendor publicly, because of what may have happened to someone else, isn't beneficial to the vendor or our community...and is really uncalled for.

I've always felt there is usually three sides to every type of story like this; the customer's story, the vendor's story and the real story. And since none of us have first-hand knowledge of exactly what was said on the phone and emails and by whom we can't assess the situation with any certainty and therefore we can't make solid educated opinions based on what really happened.

In my experience, probably the best way to convey displeasure with a company would be to say that you had an "unpleasant customer service issue" but refuse to say what it was...because you feel it wouldn't be fair to offer a one-sided viewpoint. Then let the readers make their own judgement about whether to do business with the company based on how they react to such input and the integrity of who said it. Sometimes it's the information that is "not" shared that makes a greater inpact than what is actually said!

For whatever its worth the following is part of our Rules that hopefully will get some of this point across:

DISCUSSING TOPICS WITH "SUPPORTING" VENDORS
Oftentimes "supporting" vendors or their staff will post messages and replies on our message board. We encourage our "supporting" vendors to be a part of our community like any other member. However, from time-to-time members have problems or issues with "supporting" vendors pertaining to product performance claims, shipping schedules, pricing, returning phone calls, customer service issues, etc. It is important for all members (and "supporting" vendors) to understand that discussing opposing views, beyond a point of logical and sound business principles, offers nothing beneficial for either side. Angry arguments, harmful accusations or damaging comments will not be permitted. Neither party benefits when this happens! If you must discuss personal matters (that is of no interest to members) with a "supporting" vendor, please communicate in private by phone or email. In all due respect, we remind members to accept that "supporting" vendors may be biased toward their own products when discussing comparison products. In turn, we remind "supporting" vendors that members may have different viewpoints or opinions about their products. Both "supporting" vendors and members has the rights and freedom to express these viewpoints and opinions in the open forum of our message board as long as discussions are constructive, beneficial to other members and carried out in a thoughtful and professional business-like manner.

is what this board is all about!

I love the attitude "you should try to resolve your problem with the vendor". I agree with this for the most part but the fact remains THE VENDOR SHOULD GET IT RIGHT IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!
Why do vendors get "a 2nd/3rd chance"???? And when they do need multiple chances to get it right, and don't, guess what, I WANT TO KNOW ABOUT IT. The fact that there was a misunderstanding here just point to the fact the AA was not reading their customer emails carefully. So that, in itself is something I would want to know about. I don't want to buy something from them and then know that if I have a problem they will only read my email "half-assed".

I don't pay money to someone for parts so I have to deal with them multiple times just to get what I paid for. (they already have my money, and I don't have the parts as promised) If I sent them a $100 bill torn in half do you think they'd call me to mediate the situation AFTER sending out my order? NOT

While this is not what happened in this latest round, AA had ONE chance to make things right after corwyn pointed out that he only needed the hardware for the bar. Instead they flame him for saying anything on the board. We are in America right? Wouldn't it have been better if they just apologized for not reading the email carefully (customer is always right...or you'll have no customers) and got him what he needed? I suggest that if anyone is a paying vendor sponsor, they should make every attempt to listen and care about ANY gripes on this board. It's called customer service, and is exactly why AA won't get my money. It's also a great way for vendors to improve their customer service which is something ALL vendors should strive for.

Vendors should be doing it right the FIRST time. If all these were isolated incidents, we wouldn't hear about them so often.

If this board doesn't allow people to voice their opinions, then why are we all here? (saw Bob yanked the rule regarding this, yeah!)

Rant over...

Jeff B.
95 Cosmos M3

Originally posted by 95Mpower
I love the attitude "you should try to resolve your problem with the vendor". I agree with this for the most part but the fact remains THE VENDOR SHOULD GET IT RIGHT IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!
Why do vendors get "a 2nd/3rd chance"????

You're right in that a vendor should make every effort to get it right the first time. You shouldn'e expect to give a vendor 2-3 chances every time you place an order.

BUT, you must allow for certain circumstances. Perhaps a misunderstanding on the phone when placing an order? A part # read or written the wrong way by the customer or someone at the store? A part that is broken or altered in transent, but was perfect when it left the store? Before getting on a message board to bash someone, a customer should investigate as to whether the screwup was an honest mistake or even a result of circumstances beyond the vendor's control. If it is then determined that the vendor is unwilling to work with the customer to sort out the problem or unwilling to live up to any guarantees they have made, then the customer has every right to post their dissatisfaction in a public forum.

Let me relate an extreme example: I've used my credit card to purchase an item on-line before. Somehow, my credit card came as up "reported stolen" in the database. If the vendor had practiced the "I refuse to give him a second chance, instead I'll go report him publicly" view, they would have called the cops and had me arrested. Sure, I would have gotten out of jail, but my day would have been ruined and I'd have had to pay bail. Instead, they emailed me, found out the card hadn't been stolen. I was able to contact my credit card company and clear things up. If you don't give the company a chance to clear things up, and instead run to "tell on them", you effectively ruin their reputation and cause them problems that they may not deserve.

Hey,
Im my sick rambings, in all honesty this thread was killing me; namely that it was closed. I felt like maybe this forum "sold out." I have been around for a while now, and understand that people can not make slanderous claims against people, companies etc for no reason. However, corwyn didnt really bash AA, to the affect where closing the thread was warranteed. (BTW, AA should have sent him new bolts (cost them maybe $1?) on the house, but that is just my opinion)

Everyone has their gripes about tuners, people etc. Im glad we can voice them here! thanks bob!