Tupps11
05-28-2004, 02:53 AM
Wuttup Guys
I was doing some research on one of the UK forums (www.bm3w.co.uk). I posted a thread there asking for advice on local European tuners. My main question was who is the best in terms of software upgrades? I got a lot of good feedback. Some mentioned Delage Sport. Others rooted for superchips. But i noticed a majority vote for a company in Germany called Kelleners. I checked out thier website, and they look like they really know what they are doing....
http://www.kelleners-sport.com/english/index_d.htm
Not only do they work directly with a BMW dealership in Germany, but they seem to be the most trusted and expensive choice out there. They claim 11bhp gain over stock with thier software. I spoke with them and was told that they do custom software per individual car because "no two motors are ever the same." It costs 1800 Euros :eek: Seems a bit steep in my opinion. They also told me that they alter the software according to the specific modifications that the customer has on his car. They suggested that i finish adding all the mods before doing a software upgrade with them in order to maximize power efficiently and avoid wasting money. Anyways, just wanted to show you what some of the UK guys thought about ECU tuning...
In the old days before programmable ECUs I used to tune the engines in my Alfa Romeos that I then used to race. Ignition timing was never a variable that held much potential. The main techniques we used were improving the flow of the cylinder head (i.e. porting and polishing), fitting a longer duration camshaft (i.e. allowing more fuel and air to be burnt) or increasing the fuel jet size in the carburetor. If the camshaft timing was changed such as when a more radical profile was fitted then we would alter the ignition timing to take advantage of this and optimise the point of combustion prior to any detonation. Ignition timing in itself served no purpose other than to bring all the variables together and optimise them at the point of combustion.
With modern ECUs you can do more things than the old carburetor engines, but the principle is the same - burning more fuel and air in a set period of time will increase the amount of work the engine can do in that period hence more power. There's no alchemy to this. Modern programmable ECUs will be able to optimise these variables closer to the point of maximum efficiency, but if you really want to increase power you need to burn more fuel/air and expel it through the exhaust more quickly.
When BMW designed the engine map for the M3 they took into account the varying quality fuels available plus allowing for other factors such as desired fuel economy and overall combustion efficacy (i.e. emissions). Personally given how highly strung the M3 engine already is I would prefer to maintain that safety buffer and only improve engine power through natural means, adjusting the ECU map to optimise these natural improvements. I've seen so many chipped M3's in dealer workshops with bottom end failures and I suspect many of these are due to rogue ECU tuners who tweak one parameter without properly testing and developing a proper re-map.
Steve
Steve - said like a pro...
however, changing things like air intakes, cats, exhausts etc is best done with a remap to get the best and avoid losing power low down. Also, there are alot emissions related mapping aspects (e.g. running very lean at low rpm). Full WOT should always equal full power and efficiency, but doesn't, so remapping will win something back - but nothing more than 1% or so, and not everywhere. I think it is ok to map some of the safety margin out if you are prepared to ensure fuel quality. E.g. adding Millers CVL with every tank will ensure you are always at 98 at least, so you can optimise the map for that - also playing with the cam advance retard may yield more at the cost of emissions (unburnt fuel). The key thing is all engines are different, even with the same components - so the factory ecu will account for that tolerance in power output by mapping safe - also, it means no tuner can deliver you a "one-size-fits-all" map either. Mapping engines is easy - getting power safely out of them isn't. Superchips might be a better bet - they at least will do a custom map. I don't think they can do vanos timing. Kelleners is still my top choice.
What do you guys think? Anybody heard of Kelleners? They alter vanos, fuel, and ignition. I dont think many tuners mess with vanos due to thier lack of experience with it. Advice? Feedback??? :buttrock :help :buttrock
I was doing some research on one of the UK forums (www.bm3w.co.uk). I posted a thread there asking for advice on local European tuners. My main question was who is the best in terms of software upgrades? I got a lot of good feedback. Some mentioned Delage Sport. Others rooted for superchips. But i noticed a majority vote for a company in Germany called Kelleners. I checked out thier website, and they look like they really know what they are doing....
http://www.kelleners-sport.com/english/index_d.htm
Not only do they work directly with a BMW dealership in Germany, but they seem to be the most trusted and expensive choice out there. They claim 11bhp gain over stock with thier software. I spoke with them and was told that they do custom software per individual car because "no two motors are ever the same." It costs 1800 Euros :eek: Seems a bit steep in my opinion. They also told me that they alter the software according to the specific modifications that the customer has on his car. They suggested that i finish adding all the mods before doing a software upgrade with them in order to maximize power efficiently and avoid wasting money. Anyways, just wanted to show you what some of the UK guys thought about ECU tuning...
In the old days before programmable ECUs I used to tune the engines in my Alfa Romeos that I then used to race. Ignition timing was never a variable that held much potential. The main techniques we used were improving the flow of the cylinder head (i.e. porting and polishing), fitting a longer duration camshaft (i.e. allowing more fuel and air to be burnt) or increasing the fuel jet size in the carburetor. If the camshaft timing was changed such as when a more radical profile was fitted then we would alter the ignition timing to take advantage of this and optimise the point of combustion prior to any detonation. Ignition timing in itself served no purpose other than to bring all the variables together and optimise them at the point of combustion.
With modern ECUs you can do more things than the old carburetor engines, but the principle is the same - burning more fuel and air in a set period of time will increase the amount of work the engine can do in that period hence more power. There's no alchemy to this. Modern programmable ECUs will be able to optimise these variables closer to the point of maximum efficiency, but if you really want to increase power you need to burn more fuel/air and expel it through the exhaust more quickly.
When BMW designed the engine map for the M3 they took into account the varying quality fuels available plus allowing for other factors such as desired fuel economy and overall combustion efficacy (i.e. emissions). Personally given how highly strung the M3 engine already is I would prefer to maintain that safety buffer and only improve engine power through natural means, adjusting the ECU map to optimise these natural improvements. I've seen so many chipped M3's in dealer workshops with bottom end failures and I suspect many of these are due to rogue ECU tuners who tweak one parameter without properly testing and developing a proper re-map.
Steve
Steve - said like a pro...
however, changing things like air intakes, cats, exhausts etc is best done with a remap to get the best and avoid losing power low down. Also, there are alot emissions related mapping aspects (e.g. running very lean at low rpm). Full WOT should always equal full power and efficiency, but doesn't, so remapping will win something back - but nothing more than 1% or so, and not everywhere. I think it is ok to map some of the safety margin out if you are prepared to ensure fuel quality. E.g. adding Millers CVL with every tank will ensure you are always at 98 at least, so you can optimise the map for that - also playing with the cam advance retard may yield more at the cost of emissions (unburnt fuel). The key thing is all engines are different, even with the same components - so the factory ecu will account for that tolerance in power output by mapping safe - also, it means no tuner can deliver you a "one-size-fits-all" map either. Mapping engines is easy - getting power safely out of them isn't. Superchips might be a better bet - they at least will do a custom map. I don't think they can do vanos timing. Kelleners is still my top choice.
What do you guys think? Anybody heard of Kelleners? They alter vanos, fuel, and ignition. I dont think many tuners mess with vanos due to thier lack of experience with it. Advice? Feedback??? :buttrock :help :buttrock