I'm about to throw a BBK on my E46 M3, and I can't quite decide which kit to go with. I've read and read (also searched and searched), and everyone seems to have a different opinion - so I thought I might try to combine them all in one place to better see if there is any consensus (not that I expect any). [Note: The car will be driven on the street mainly, but will be used at the track (road courses) as much as possible (maybe 10-15 times per year); I'll be running 18" wheels at the track (aftermarket, probably something like SSR Comps) and 19" around town (aftermarket; BBS, HRE, Fiske, or something); and lets not consider cost at this point.]

Anyway, it seems the current options are:
AP 6 piston kit (6 piston w/359mm or 370mm rotors in front and 4 piston w/335mm rotors in the rear) - Ground Control offers a kit.
Brembo 4 piston kit (355mm front 345mm rear) - offered by TC Kline and others.
StopTech 4 piston kit (355mm front, 355 rear).

Any information from people who have used them, seen them, or know things/idiosyncrasies about them please speak up. THANKS!

Don't forget about the UUC kit... uses 4piston front and rear calipers w/ a 14" kit (355mm) and 12.9" rear

I'm in the same place..... I'm pretty sure I'm going with AP....They fit without spacers on 18" wheels - I don't think anyone else offers that....

There is also a Mov'it kit from the Ultimate Garage.....but it is huge money....more than Brembo....

I looked at UUC - I like 99% of their products, but it appears that their kit is not a BBK kit...it is less massive than stock!

Stock - 325 by 28
UUC - 355 by 25
AP - 359 by 32

So the brake rotors are narrower, but larger in diameter than stock. If you multiply diameter by width, they are less massive. Less mass should equal less of a heat sink which should equal less braking. There are lots and lots of other variables here (caliper weight and design (number of pistons)), rotor design, etc. The only thing I see that is superior about UUC's vs. AP Racing is cost.

That said, I'm sure that there is some improvement of the UUC kit vs. stock, but I'm also sure that the AP kit is better than both. If nothing else, the UUC kit (as well as the other BBK's) make it a snap to change pads. If you can toast toast, you can change pads!

If I'm missing something here, let me know....

The AP kit from GC is not a kit recommended for street cars. :nono

Brembo is more street friendly, as is StopTech.

The AP kit from GC is not a kit recommended for street cars. :nono

Brembo is more street friendly, as is StopTech.


This is completely incorrect. The reason the GC web page mentions this is for marketing reasons only. There is only one "authorized" AP Racing street dealer in North America. GC is allowed to sell their kit, but not for the street. It has nothing to do with dust boots or any design factors.

If you doubt me, call them....I did.....

Not so quick with the :nono

I have the brembo's. With SSR GT3's and 19" rims, I still had to run a spacer. I'm trying to figure out how to run 18's without running to huge of a spacer.

If you guys figure out how to run 18's with a correct spacer and brembo's ... let me know! :)

I looked at UUC - I like 99% of their products, but it appears that their kit is not a BBK kit...it is less massive than stock!

Stock - 325 by 28
UUC - 355 by 25
AP - 359 by 32
...

If I'm missing something here, let me know....


I think you got some bad info somewhere... the dimensions you quote for the UUC BBK are incorrect! You might be thinking of the rear rotor thickness by mistake.

The front rotors for the UUC BBK for the E46 M3 are 355mm X 35.6mm. That's a heck of a lot of rotor, and this is indeed a true BBK.

I hope that clears things up.

Besides being quite beefy, the UUC rotors also have some advanced technology within the rotors themselves:

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/UBBK/brakepix/rotor.jpg

Now let's compare the brake pad surface area of each kit.
:)

I think you got some bad info somewhere... the dimensions you quote for the UUC BBK are incorrect! You might be thinking of the rear rotor thickness by mistake.

The front rotors for the UUC BBK for the E46 M3 are 355mm X 35.6mm. That's a heck of a lot of rotor, and this is indeed a true BBK.

I hope that clears things up.

Besides being quite beefy, the UUC rotors also have some advanced technology within the rotors themselves:

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/UBBK/brakepix/rotor.jpg


I knew there must be something missing.....and I have no idea where I got 25 from- I just went to your site, and that isn't the size of the rotor anywhere...

My bad!

So - do you need spacers with OEM M3 18" wheels? If not, or if a small one, this looks like the way to go....price and performance!

I knew you guys wouldn't miss like that.....I should have reviewed my numbers! Arugh!

I knew there must be something missing.....and I have no idea where I got 25 from- I just went to your site, and that isn't the size of the rotor anywhere...

My bad!

So - do you need spacers with OEM M3 18" wheels? If not, or if a small one, this looks like the way to go....price and performance!

I knew you guys wouldn't miss like that.....I should have reviewed my numbers! Arugh!

Yes, I was wondering as well...Do you need spacers for 18"?

And.....are those curved vanes for the rotor that fits the E46 M3, or only the lesser (he he) E46's?

And...what are the pad options available from you? Can I get them shipped with Axxis Ultimates?

And...what of the 3 colors do you have in stock ready to ship?

Yes, I was wondering as well...Do you need spacers for 18"?

I'll have to review my notes at the shop tomorrow for the exact size (at home right now), but as with other 4-piston setups, you'll need a spacer. It's a reasonable 12mm or 15mm.

For aftermarket wheels, you (or your wheel vendor) can compare the wheel's interior with this diagram:

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/UBBK/brake_info/SSBC_FITDIAG/A164-6.jpg

And.....are those curved vanes for the rotor that fits the E46 M3, or only the lesser (he he) E46's?

All fitments get the curved vanes.


And...what are the pad options available from you? Can I get them shipped with Axxis Ultimates?

Better than what is available, I can give you firsthand experience for a variety of pads including Hawk HP-S, HP-Plus, Akebono ProACT, Carbotech Panther, SBS ProTouring, SBS ProTrack, EBC Green/Red, Raybestos BruteStop, SatisfiedPro OEM organic. I'd be glad to discuss your own requirements and make a suggestion, feel free to call me during the day.

The Axxis are not available in this FMSI designation... but quite frankly, the ProACTs have performed better in my experience, and they are what I run on my personal cars.

And...what of the 3 colors do you have in stock ready to ship?

All three (red, black, or polished) should be available for immediate shipment at this time. We're never more than 3 days away from having any of the standard colors available and custom colors (blue, green, yellow, orange, etc.) take 2-3 weeks.

- Rob

For me Brembo all the way!

Better pic of front brake.

JBlack is correct. Stillen is the US-authorized distributor of AP Racing BBK's.

I have the front GC AP Racing 6-pot CP5575 caliper but got the rear 4-pot AP Racing caliper from Stillen. So i've dealt with both firms. The Stillen rear kit uses the stock rear rotor while the GC rear kit uses a custom rear rotor. The GC front rotors are sourced from Coleman but use a custom gold-anodized hat. The rotors are heat-treated and balanced.

This is completely incorrect. The reason the GC web page mentions this is for marketing reasons only. There is only one "authorized" AP Racing street dealer in North America. GC is allowed to sell their kit, but not for the street. It has nothing to do with dust boots or any design factors.

If you doubt me, call them....I did.....

Not so quick with the :nono

JBlack is correct. Stillen is the US-authorized distributor of AP Racing BBK's.

I have the front GC AP Racing 6-pot CP5575 caliper but got the rear 4-pot AP Racing caliper from Stillen. So i've dealt with both firms. The Stillen rear kit uses the stock rear rotor while the GC rear kit uses a custom rear rotor. The GC front rotors are sourced from Coleman but use a custom gold-anodized hat. The rotors are heat-treated and balanced.


At least I got something right in this thread! Arugh!

So...did we find out if the UUC setup needs 12, 15 or a different size spacer? Still looks like a deal at $2,100.

And, to JoeCaMotto, why did you choose Brembo? Do you use your car at the track, or are you going for looks? Just curious, as the Brembo looks pretty low on the bang for buck, but high on the looks for buck.... - again, just curious....

The UUC brakes are awesome... I've been using them on street and they've done two different track events I believe. Brakes have performed flawlessly the entire time. With the track pads installed... the car can do two full days of hot lapping without an ounce of brake fade. With the street pads... there is no dust, no squeal, no warmup necessary.

At least I got something right in this thread! Arugh!

So...did we find out if the UUC setup needs 12, 15 or a different size spacer? Still looks like a deal at $2,100.

Official answer: 10mm for OE 18" wheels, should be no spacer required for OE 19".

We have a cosmetic update coming in about two weeks... in addition to the red, black, or polished finish, we will be offering a metallic silver powdercoat. It's less shiny than the polished finish, but should be easier to clean. I will post pics of a material sample in roughly 1 week.

- Rob

Official answer: 10mm for OE 18" wheels, should be no spacer required for OE 19".

We have a cosmetic update coming in about two weeks... in addition to the red, black, or polished finish, we will be offering a metallic silver powdercoat. It's less shiny than the polished finish, but should be easier to clean. I will post pics of a material sample in roughly 1 week.

- Rob

And the news gets better.....Correct me if I'm wrong, but 10mm is the smallest spacer you can get with a lip...right? Where would you suggest you buy this? What brand -H&R?

And the news gets better.....Correct me if I'm wrong, but 10mm is the smallest spacer you can get with a lip...right? Where would you suggest you buy this? What brand -H&R?

The only spacers I would ever use are TUV-approved, made in Germany... too many horror stories of locally-made stuff breaking.

H&R might be the only 10mm with the hubcentric lip. You can get them through Turner Motorsport along with the longer lug bolts.

- Rob

Some M3 GTR eye candy for you...

Under 19" wheels:

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/UBBK/GTR_M3/DSC03348.jpg

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/UBBK/GTR_M3/DSC03350.jpg

- Rob

Is that the car with the MoTeC ADL infront of the normal gauges?

Couple of Q's for the thread.
which Brembo kit's are you looking at? there are several
I personally was looking at
1G1.9017A E46 M3 Front 2001 > 380x34 2-Piece (8-Piston)
+
2C1.8001A E46 M3 Rear 2001 > 345x28 2-Piece

These will naturally requre 19" with clearance (Fiske, Kensis, etc.)

Also how do the other kit's compaire to the above kit?
I will use the both as a daily driver and for track events + the One Lap

3rd Q' - Has anyone fited the above Kit? and how does it affect the ABS?

Some background - I am very seriously considering an 05' coupe. I will not be going with the track option on the car - b/c all that stuff will be ditched and it is cheaper to add the PS rack after the fact if needed. I'm coming from the porsche world so the M3 is a little different for me.

1. I think the factory 19s should clear ... no problem.

2. I've only drive on the UUC BBK... and I haven't been left once wanting more brakes.

3. The ABS works just fine with any kit as the ABS has the ability to function on an individual wheel at any point it time.

on your points.

1. Big maybe - i will not run a spacer for safety reasons. the caliper to rim clearance is noramlly an issue which requires a custom offset, been there done that + you need to think about the total system weight.
2. Think Road America and VIR - my 911 Cup car ran through 2 sets of pads in 6 days on the one lap. The rotors were toast as well.
3. Not sure how sensitive the BMW system is - going with more sweep area & Mass sometimes confuses the ABS system and actually increases stopping distance as the system percieves it as locked when in fact you are at 90% lockup. On the street i seriously doupt this would happen - the conditions would occur under threashold braking -with an ABS equiped car you need to modulate it right to the point of ABS engagement or let the system do the work.
Some actual testing will have to occur to see if this is the case with the car or not.

1. I know a few guys running the Brembo 14" brake kit without a problem with the factory 19" wheels... no spacers. The 15" brake kit I do believe may require a bigger wheel to clear.

2. I'm not sure how friendly a 911 is compared to a BMW on brakes. I can say this tho, I've done 3 track events and my track pads are still in perfect condition... and that's 6hours per day of lapping. Not 11/10ths driving but more along the lines of 8/10ths.

3. That's a mighty good question... I haven't found that my braking distances are lengthened any and I try to stay out of the ABS while on the track. I've gone into the ABS, but I don't think it pushed me any further than it would have with the stock brakes... that's a good question, I can't answer that one.

This is a start. :)
911's are pretty hard on brakes but the cupcar is much lighter than an M3 (2762 LBs to 3415 lbs). I suspect there will be heat issues on the M3 and greater wear. Pad choice will also affect this greatly (i normally used Pagid Orange compound or Black's depending on the track and conditions). At some tracks (RA, PIR, and CMP) my brakes were glowing after a few hot laps.
At this point i do not have a baseline for comparision. But the only advantage for the 8Piston brakes is the sweep area over the 4 piston setup. Both are floating rotor setups. Ultimatly tire choice is going to be the deciding factor in the brakes. 19" are rather limited in what will fit and works well on the track within the rules.
As always some testing will be in order.
interesting topic though.

Don't forget about the UUC kit... uses 4piston front and rear calipers w/ a 14" kit (355mm) and 12.9" rear

Ditto, I have the UUC kit and love it. :buttrock

3. Not sure how sensitive the BMW system is - going with more sweep area & Mass sometimes confuses the ABS system and actually increases stopping distance as the system percieves it as locked when in fact you are at 90% lockup. On the street i seriously doupt this would happen - the conditions would occur under threashold braking -with an ABS equiped car you need to modulate it right to the point of ABS engagement or let the system do the work.

It's a little simpler than that, actually.

The ABS system looks at relative wheel speed. It only intervenes when it sees a disparity greater the four different wheels speeds and then pulses the pressure on the appropriate wheel brake line (individual wheel 4-channel on BMW back until around '95 when it was 3-channel, both rears pulsed as one).

It cannot "perceive" anything that is not happening. If the relative wheel speeds are not greater than the threshold, it does nothing.

Swept area is a component in brake torque, and the brake torque front/rear bias is the primary factor in whether you will have more or less potential for lockup.

On brake torque, some people make it seem like the bias is a rigid number. Bias expression needs to be couched in terms of situation; panic braking having a different bias than gentle street braking or track-time trail braking. These things are affected by speed of deceleraion, mass transfer, tire size, temperature, and a variety of other factors. Nothing is ever as simple as it seems!

When you have brake bias like the factory setup, you're not more likely to create a lockup or impending lockup situation any more or less easily relative to the driver's brake modulation ability. The technical truth of the matter is that a BBK gives you a little more of a margin as the temperature spikes which change pad/rotor interface characteristics are not as rapid, giving you better modulation ability... you can hold "successful" trailbraking without ABS intervention closer to the system's threshold.


But the only advantage for the 8Piston brakes is the sweep area over the 4 piston setup.

Swept area is strictly a function of rotor size and pad size. Piston count is not a factor in that (except for the the numeric X area for the final brake torque calculation). Point being, an appropriate 8-piston fitment is not "two times" the appropriate 4-piston setups combined.

Note that I use the word "appropriate"... if you make certain factors fixed, specifically master cylinder volume, rotor diameter, and pad size, you would come to a conclusion that a specific area per piston is suitable when using a 4-piston caliper. No more, no less (and the rear brake figures would fall into line when adjusting for the component dimensions used). Now when you would determine the appropriate 8-piston caliper's piston dimensions, you would (or should) end up sizing them smaller, the correct sizing to generate the same brake torque at that wheel.

Multiple pistons (as opposed to the single big piston used in most OE brakes) are used for a few reasons, including greater spread of clamping area, better modulation through better responsiveness, and pad shape necessities. However, a point is quickly reached where more pistons are of no practical advantage... to avoid generating too much brake torque, you end up with tiny-sized pistons. This adds complication (more seals), component friction, and a resulting decrease in that fine modulation sought in the first place. Also, in order to lay out a bunch of tiny pistons (which each require space greater than their diameter), you end up with a banana-shaped pad that is wide but short. Common experience among brake designers comes to the same conclusion, that a blockier 1:1.5 pad shape (and the pistons to support the design) works best.

Sure, there are 8, 10, and even some 12 piston calipers... but to be blunt about it, that's playing to the marketing ploy of "more is better" without regard to function. Beyond the point of diminishing returns, the "gimmick" calipers do not work as well as the simpler/standard 4-piston designs, and certainly add to the complication and usually to the weight of the caliper.

- Rob Levinson

BTW - I ordered and installed the UUC kit on my car earlier this year....my observations....

1. Install is stupid easy - only problem I had is after I was done, I found a "supplementary" instruction sheet that informed me I had installed the rotors on the wrong sides. It took me all of 30 minutes to fix the problem.

2. These things are absolutely massive!

3. For what you care about - no warpage on the track - I do still change to a race pad on the fronts for the track (Porterfield R4). I think I do this because the pads are so damn easy to change - seriously - about 3 minutes a side once the wheels are off.

4. These things are absolutely massive!

5. Something to consider - these are total overkill for the M3. This is also one of the lower cost options for the M3. You really (really) need to ask yourself if you think that there are better options on brakes, what are you doing wrong in technique that you would need Stoptec/Brembo/AP Racing brakes to do? I was warping a set of OEM rotors every weekend - or close to it. This was with Ferrodo DS3000 pads, then SpecVR pads. I'm nowhere near this problem with the UUC brakes. When you see the size difference, you will know there won't be a problem.

6. These things are absolutely massive!

7. The spacer issue is just not an issue. I have run spacers on the fronts for the brakes (10mm) and on the back in the winter (20mm). Other than making wheel installs a pain (you have to line up 3 things instead of 2), it is no issue. Get the H&R TUV spacers. It is not a safety issue - just keep the bolts torqued correctly (as you should be anyway). Or get studs. Also, get some extra cotter pins to hold the pads in - they are easy to lose, and are very inexpensive (I bought 10 extras for 3 bucks).

8. Did I mention that these things are absolutely massive!

Other than making wheel installs a pain (you have to line up 3 things instead of 2), it is no issue.


You might consider changing from wheel bolts to a good wheel stud. Eliminates any concern about different bolts for different wheels and saves wear-and-tear on the threaded hub holes.

One huge advantage to studs is simply the ease of wheel changing... instead of wrestling with a wheel, holding it in place while you line up a bolt, you just put the wheel on the studs and put the nuts on at your leisure.

I use open nuts, but you can use a cap nut if you want to retain an OE appearance, they look just like bolt heads.

- Rob

Hey Rob:

What's the chance of getting a Group Buy going on the UUC brakes, front & rear? I'm sure this post is generating a lot of interest ;)

I think you got some bad info somewhere... the dimensions you quote for the UUC BBK are incorrect! You might be thinking of the rear rotor thickness by mistake.

The front rotors for the UUC BBK for the E46 M3 are 355mm X 35.6mm. That's a heck of a lot of rotor, and this is indeed a true BBK.

I hope that clears things up.

Besides being quite beefy, the UUC rotors also have some advanced technology within the rotors themselves:

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/UBBK/brakepix/rotor.jpg


LOL so the UUC rotor is not even 2 piece...not in that pic...and the rotor they show for the aftermarket one.....looks like the biggest POS...and theirs marginally better then the aftermarket one

Hey Rob:

What's the chance of getting a Group Buy going on the UUC brakes, front & rear? I'm sure this post is generating a lot of interest ;)

Let me get back to you on this on Monday...

We don't officially do "group buys", but we do have an overstock of black calipers, and we do have a new version of silver to introduce (pics on Monday). We may do an official "special" on all colors to celbrate the new color release.

- Rob

LOL so the UUC rotor is not even 2 piece...not in that pic...and the rotor they show for the aftermarket one.....looks like the biggest POS...and theirs marginally better then the aftermarket one


Jumping to conclusions is often the same as jumping off a cliff - close your eyes, make the jump, and the results are often sub-optimal.

The cutaway pic I posted is of our 1-piece 330mm (13") rotors as used on standard 3-series only. Far from a "POS", it's a fantastic bargain and the weight savings of an aluminum hat in that smaller application is hardly worth the extra $500+ that a 2-piece design would dictate. Performance is equal or better than any same-size competitor by any measurement. More importantly for anybody taking the 30 seconds to verify any information clearly spelled out on the UUC website, the 330mm 1-piece is not available for the E46 M3.

Now, the 355mm (14") rotor is the only choice for the E46 M3. It is definitely a 2-piece as can clearly be seen here:

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/UBBK/brakepix/UBBK_355_NW.jpg

One difference from the pic shown above... current-production units have a black-anodized rotor hat, not the clear anodized (silver) as shown. Pics on website to be updated shortly.

SSR 19" wheels:


http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/UBBK/brakepix/UBBK_SSR_1.jpg
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/UBBK/brakepix/UBBK_SSR_2.jpg
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/UBBK/brakepix/UBBK_SSR_3.jpg
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/UBBK/brakepix/UBBK_SSR_4.jpg

I was thinking more along the lines of

http://www.ice-pla.net/images/cruizinko/photoshoot/images/MyCar03.jpg

http://members.roadfly.org/AEsco48/Temp_HMS_weekend/Alcon2.jpg

http://members.roadfly.org/AEsco48/Temp_HMS_weekend/Alcon1.jpg

What race teams or hardcore drivers (laptimes) are using your kit?

What race teams or hardcore drivers (laptimes) are using your kit?

Plenty of hardcore private enthusiasts, no shortage of those. Although a lot get sold for appearance or for basic upgrading (like any brand BBK), our components get fitted to a number of track-dedicated cars... we know that by how many substitute race pads for street pads in their initial order.

As it's a relatively new offering, we don't have the history of forcing entire race series to accept the product at a below-cost "sponsored" mandatory fitment with an advertising write-off.

But the genuine enthusiasts who understand the technology and differences (and often lack of difference) between our completely USA-made product and all of the overseas offerings (which are all very good - almost nobody is making a "bad" brake kit except for some Sprint-car parts adapted to BMWs recently) can appreciate the better value of the UUC/SSBC BBK.

Compared to some of the equivalent other-brand kits, it's sort of like getting a free set of wheels or a performance exhaust at the same price without any sacrifice in quality or performance. Coming from one of the largest USA performance brake manufacturers, it should not be a surprise.

I think you'll also find by comparing the costs of maintenance parts such as rotors and pads that the UUC/SSBC BBK will continue to be a bargain. For comparison, we list the costs of replacement UUC/SSBC components on the pricing page here (scroll down to the bottom):

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/UBBK/brake_info/pricing.htm

Complete overview:
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/UBBK/

- Rob

Just because something is two times or three times the price doesn't mean it's two or three time better. The UUC is an awesome kit and any driver would be hard pressed to drive a car hard enough to know the difference between the two... except when they check their bank account.

The UUC BBK is more BBK than I would ever need... and I didn't break the bank to get it and I won't need a small loan to afford replacement parts when these do wear out.

Just because something is two times or three times the price doesn't mean it's two or three time better.

So true.

"Swept area is strictly a function of rotor size and pad size. Piston count is not a factor in that (except for the the numeric X area for the final brake torque calculation). Point being, an appropriate 8-piston fitment is not "two times" the appropriate 4-piston setups combined. "

Correct - I was making a generalization - in the case of the 8 piston Brembo's i believe the sweep area is 20% larger than the 4p Setup.
In the porsche world (964 cup cars anyway) I was using a 3 channel racing system, Also installed was a factory part which allowed more rear bias for the system. This car also used a larger master cylinder than stock.
on an M3 i imagine i would need to change to the CSL parts or the motorsports bits for the master cylinder and to correctly adjust the bias.
As far as ultimate lap times are concerned i doupt there is much advantage from the 8p set up vs. yours and the others. I am focused on the shorter time trials sessions that make up the one lap event.
your's looks like a good system

The CSL uses the same overall braking system as the standard M3 with the exception of cross drilled rotors front and rear (as opposed to solid rotors) and the CSL uses a slightly larger 13.6" front rotor.

Let me get back to you on this on Monday...

We don't officially do "group buys", but we do have an overstock of black calipers, and we do have a new version of silver to introduce (pics on Monday). We may do an official "special" on all colors to celbrate the new color release.

- Rob

Thanks Rob! I'll be watching :alright

Thanks Rob! I'll be watching :alright

Here ya go...

Special on UUC BBK for E46 M3 (click here) (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=271112)

I Have The 355mm Brembo's With Rear Euro Rotors And Just The Caliper Upgrade. I Put The Ap Setup On My Friends Car And The Stop Tech's On A Customers Car. The Ap Felt The Best To Me And They Were Just Fronts With Slotted Rotors And Ferrodo Pads. The Stop Tech's Feel Good Too. They Were Slotted With The Pads They Send. My Brembo's Have Cross Drilled Rotors With The Hawk Hps Pads For Low Dust. I Think They Look Great On My Car And Stop Better Than Stock, But I Would Get Something Else If I Could Do It Over. It Might Just Be The Combination Of My Pads And Rotors That I Don't Like, But I Have Always Been A Fan Of Hawk Pads. Slotted Rotors I Think Stop Better Too, So Lots Of Stuff To Think About. If Your Going To Spend Alot Of Time On The Track I Would Go With The Ap Racing. If You Need Fitment Info Stickley At Css Motorsports Can Help You With The Ap Stuff. He Has Done A Couple Recently.

I can say this tho, I've done 3 track events and my track pads are still in perfect condition... and that's 6hours per day of lapping. Not 11/10ths driving but more along the lines of 8/10ths.


:eyecrazy wow, 18 hours of driving and the pads are still perfect??? :eyecrazy

Is that the car with the MoTeC ADL infront of the normal gauges?




No, that car is my blue widebody, here in California www.moviecarz.com.

The blue car uses Stop Tech behind 20 inch wheels. This is the second car on which I've had Stop Techs....they are freakin' awesome. (Skyline R34, my BMW M3) I've tracked them once on the M3, run the canyons several time. The pedal pressure is same as stock and the kit won't fade with the pads I'm using...unbelievable kit. Can't wait to get a kit for my Porsche 996TT

I had AP's on my big turbo Supra for 4 years...never had a problem. Great kit, just not as flashy. Had the AP's on my Maxima, killed the pads in 1 year. Go figure.

For me, I like the fit, finish and kit quality from Stop Tech...and their customer support is second to none. One phone call gets you a live engineer and their installation instructions are superb. Best brake value on the market.

IMHO, that kit on the red M3 looks cheap. The calipers look small and they look like one of those $500 kits you'd buy for a Honda. Is there a better UUC kit available for the BMW, assuming the owner skimped?

Perhaps its' cosmetic, but I prefer the large caliper found on kits like the Stop Tech or Brembos. Just my humble opinion, of course.

IMHO, that kit on the red M3 looks cheap. The calipers look small and they look like one of those $500 kits you'd buy for a Honda.

Looks can be deceiving... the caliper may look small, but believe me, it provides more than enough stopping force and fade resistance.

IMHO, that kit on the red M3 looks cheap. The calipers look small and they look like one of those $500 kits you'd buy for a Honda.
Perhaps its' cosmetic, but I prefer the large caliper found on kits like the Stop Tech or Brembos. Just my humble opinion, of course.


I have no idea what your frame of reference is to think they look "small":

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/images/brembo_vs_uuc.jpg
(photograph supplied by a UUC customer switching from Brembo)

Size-wise they're within millimeters of the StopTech. Slightly bigger in some dimensions, slightly smaller in others.

As far as "cheap", there's nothing cheap about the design or construction. Feature for feature, simply by looking at the technical data on our website, you will see that nothing but the best in hardware, component materials, and design specifications is applied to SSBC's caliper construction.

A lot of people make the mistake of equating "low price" with the negative "cheap". The truth of the matter is that this brake kit's cost savings are due to three major factors:

1) Direct consumer supply chain, not marked up through several layers of reseller distribution.

2) Direct manufacturing supply chain, a single in-house manufacturing source for the primary components. All that SSBC outsources is the assembly hardware, brake lines, and of course brake pads.

3) No overseas shipping. With 100% USA manufacture, there's no cross-ocean shipping (and multiple supply chain costs) as from Germany or Taiwan as with the other "major" setups.

As I said previously, there are no mainstream "bad" brake setups... but there certainly are better "values" with equivalent performance and support. SSBC has been in the brake business for over 30 years and offers in-depth technical support directly at the facility where these components are manufactured... you can speak with any engineer you like from any stage of the manufacturing process.

The track record of happy customers speaks for itself.

- Rob

I have no idea what your frame of reference is to think they look "small":

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/images/brembo_vs_uuc.jpg
(photograph supplied by a UUC customer switching from Brembo)

Size-wise they're within millimeters of the StopTech. Slightly bigger in some dimensions, slightly smaller in others.

As far as "cheap", there's nothing cheap about the design or construction. Feature for feature, simply by looking at the technical data on our website, you will see that nothing but the best in hardware, component materials, and design specifications is applied to SSBC's caliper construction.

A lot of people make the mistake of equating "low price" with the negative "cheap". The truth of the matter is that this brake kit's cost savings are due to three major factors:

1) Direct consumer supply chain, not marked up through several layers of reseller distribution.

2) Direct manufacturing supply chain, a single in-house manufacturing source for the primary components. All that SSBC outsources is the assembly hardware, brake lines, and of course brake pads.

3) No overseas shipping. With 100% USA manufacture, there's no cross-ocean shipping (and multiple supply chain costs) as from Germany or Taiwan as with the other "major" setups.

As I said previously, there are no mainstream "bad" brake setups... but there certainly are better "values" with equivalent performance and support. SSBC has been in the brake business for over 30 years and offers in-depth technical support directly at the facility where these components are manufactured... you can speak with any engineer you like from any stage of the manufacturing process.

The track record of happy customers speaks for itself.

- Rob

Rob ..... That is a picture of the REAR Brembo caliper (Lotus/Jaguar). The F40/F50 caliper is significantly larger. Where's the pic comparing those two?

Ok ....... I found a pic myself:

http://zeckhausen.com/images/uuc/side_by_side_comparison.jpg


Left: Brembo F50 caliper
Center: Stoptech ST-40 caliper
Right: UUC UBBK caliper

Rob ..... That is a picture of the REAR Brembo caliper (Lotus/Jaguar). The F40/F50 caliper is significantly larger. Where's the pic comparing those two?

Supposedly that was the front caliper taken off our customer's car (customer did the install, we never saw it here)... I can't say where he got that setup, all I can say is he supplied the pic.

But considering that the caliper profile (not depth, not piston size) for the UUC is the same for the rear, the example still remains for those wanting "impressive looking" brakes. Looks are not my priority for this kind of thing, but that is the issue I was addressing.


Ok ....... I found a pic myself:

Left: Brembo F50 caliper
Center: Stoptech ST-40 caliper
Right: UUC UBBK caliper

Thank you! That was the pic I was looking for, couldn't find it. In comparison, for those wanting an "big" caliper, the three are nominally the same size. Makes sense, three components with the same application and purpose.

That was at a mini-Brakefest last year, we had an enthusiast who had never seen the UUC BBK install the fronts (330mm version) on an E46 330i in a little over an hour in a parking lot with hand tools and a floor jack.

Thanks again for tracking down that pic!

- Rob

AP RACING :D
http://photos.e46fanatics.com/data/500/6355t_wire031.jpg