I have read forum comments regarding marginal brakes on stock M3s, but figured I would never run into the problem in "normal" driving. WRONG!

I went to the Southern California mountains this weekend (Big Bear Lake). I went up the back route (HWY 18) which is pretty steep (16%) in spots and quite twisty. Nice drive!

Coming home, I was driving normally, a little spirited, and experienced significant brake fade during the downhill run. In fact at one point it pulled strongly to the left on braking, and I lost confidence that the brakes would stop me. Suffice to say, I slowed way down.

I did not feel that I was going particularly fast, and used the gears to get engine braking. I would never have expected so significant a fade.

Is this a typical experience?? If this is the case, a stock car would be a disaster on a track, even for non-race activities.

I tracked my car on stock brakes... while they did exhibt fade, nothing like what you are describing. The brakes themselves were fine, but by the end of the day, I managed to boil the brake fluid giving me a less than friendly pedal feel. Replacing the stock fluid with a better fluid and better pads solved the problem next time out.

This is just my experience and my opinion. People that are experiencing brake fade in 'spirited' driving are improperly applying the brakes, e.g., riding them to long and allowing them to heat up rather than firmly getting on them and firmly getting off of them. For instance, you are coming up to a turn and you start to lightly press the brake and as the turn approaches, you gradually increase brake pressure. This would lead one to heat the brakes pretty good especially with the incline/declines you are talking about.

Firmly get on the brakes and firmly get off, don't ride them. I would be very surprised if you were employing that technique and experienced brake fade still.

Repeated 140 mph-35 mph braking VERY DEEP into a turn for 40 minute sessions, I felt very little brake fade, if any. This was stock brake pads, stock brake fluids, and stock brake lines. I boiled the fluid at the end of the 2nd day ... but, nothing like you have experienced and I was definitely GETTING on them hard each time through the turns.

Your experience and opinion notwithstanding, I was not riding the brakes as you described. Having many performance automobiles in my driving career, including Porsche 914-6, 911s and 904s, a 425 hp Corvette, two Ferraris (328GTB, F355B) and two BMW 3 series, I have learned the proper way to brake.

Admittedly, I was not braking as aggressively as I might on the track, as the car was full of stuff not tied down, but I was also not going as fast as on the track either. I still would not have expected the change in the braking performance I experienced.

Since the brakes are very "grabby" and overly sensitive in normal driving as well, a trip to my local BMW dealer for a check of the braking system is probably in order.

Sounds like from the experience of you two, I should expect more from my stock brakes. I'll try to get some track time to do a better evaluation of the braking system. Upgrading the brake fluid and pads is reasonable. But I don't think I should buy an M3 and then have to buy a big-brake system to get decent braking performance on the street.

Sounds like from the experience of you two, I should expect more from my stock brakes. I'll try to get some track time to do a better evaluation of the braking system. Upgrading the brake fluid and pads is reasonable. But I don't think I should buy an M3 and then have to buy a big-brake system to get decent braking performance on the street.

It is a shame.....The E36 M3 at it's peak had 321 HP.....not too far from our 333. The big (pun intended) problem is weight. The brakes are marginally bigger, the HP is marginally up, but the weight is up quite a bit.

I actually debated on dumping the car - a car coming up on 60K optioned up should not need brakes and suspension mods to go to the track, but it does. I said to myself - damn it, if I'm going to pay for and keep this car, I'm going to enjoy it. AP Racing - here I come!

Your experience and opinion notwithstanding, I was not riding the brakes as you described. Having many performance automobiles in my driving career, including Porsche 914-6, 911s and 904s, a 425 hp Corvette, two Ferraris (328GTB, F355B) and two BMW 3 series, I have learned the proper way to brake.

Admittedly, I was not braking as aggressively as I might on the track, as the car was full of stuff not tied down, but I was also not going as fast as on the track either. I still would not have expected the change in the braking performance I experienced.

Since the brakes are very "grabby" and overly sensitive in normal driving as well, a trip to my local BMW dealer for a check of the braking system is probably in order.

Sounds like from the experience of you two, I should expect more from my stock brakes. I'll try to get some track time to do a better evaluation of the braking system. Upgrading the brake fluid and pads is reasonable. But I don't think I should buy an M3 and then have to buy a big-brake system to get decent braking performance on the street.

Owing high perofrmance car, doesn't necessarily mean you actually KNOW how to drive them. You could be an idiot with lots of moeny. :)

I find the M3 brakes to be very powerful, but not touchy, but that would depend on your experience.

As for grabbing, that sounds like some problem. I have faded the stock pads, boiled good fluids, but never had it dart to one side. If a caliper is sticking you could fade one side more than the other.

For the track I run Turner Cool Willy pads and have no problems on the track. The last event I did boil the fluid between sessions. I really need to drive around a bit to keep air moving. That and moving up to Motul 600.

Maybe true brake ducts later, but so far it they work well.