I am currently running zero toe up front with max negative camber (about -1 degrees). If I have the front toed out 1/8" will I be able to get more negative camber up front? If so, how much?

Thanks,
Andy

Changing your toe setting should not affect your camber. However, changing your camber will affect your toe setting.

I'm not E46-smart. But, why are you running zero toe with -1 camber? And, why do you want to go to toe-out?

Jay

Changing your toe setting should not affect your camber. However, changing your camber will affect your toe setting.

I'm not E46-smart. But, why are you running zero toe with -1 camber? And, why do you want to go to toe-out?

Jay

Thanks for your comments Jay.

Settings are for autocross (stock class). Max negative camber is set at -1 for maximum bite and toe is set at zero for better turn-in. A little toe out will give me even better turn-in, I was just hoping more toe-out would also increase negative camber... but I guess that's not the case.

Changing your toe setting should not affect your camber. However, changing your camber will affect your toe setting.

I'm not E46-smart. But, why are you running zero toe with -1 camber? And, why do you want to go to toe-out?

Jay

His camber is limited by the restrictions of stock class autocross. -1 is about the most he can get.

And you're right, changing the toe will not affect the camber. Changing the caster will affect the camber curve through bump, though :devillook

Ahhhhh, I see. Auto-x settings. I tried it once, but I'm too old to think that fast ;-) I can handle 15 turns in 3 miles. But 15 turns in .5 mile is way past my ECU.

Jay

Changing the caster will affect the camber curve through bump, though :devillook

Hi John. Talk to me more about this caster change. Will more positive caster result in more negative camber? How does that work?

Hi John. Talk to me more about this caster change. Will more positive caster result in more negative camber? How does that work?

I was just going to post :devillook and see if it drove ya nuts... :)

More positive caster will result in more negative camber as the suspension travels. I'm not sure how X degrees of caster translates into Y degrees of camber gain through Z suspension travel, so I can't tell you if it's significant or not. Every little bit helps...

I was just going to post :devillook and see if it drove ya nuts... :)

More positive caster will result in more negative camber as the suspension travels. I'm not sure how X degrees of caster translates into Y degrees of camber gain through Z suspension travel, so I can't tell you if it's significant or not. Every little bit helps...

Cool, I learn something new everyday!! Thanks John.

More positive caster will result in more negative camber as the suspension travels. I'm not sure how X degrees of caster translates into Y degrees of camber gain through Z suspension travel, so I can't tell you if it's significant or not. Every little bit helps...

But there's a trade-off for everything. If you add caster, you will get a little more negative camber as the wheels turn. You also get more straight-line stability, which you may not want for autoxing - the steering response tends to be a little slower.

Jim

But there's a trade-off for everything. If you add caster, you will get a little more negative camber as the wheels turn. You also get more straight-line stability, which you may not want for autoxing - the steering response tends to be a little slower.

Jim

Do you suspect that could be offset by running a little bit of toe out?

Do you suspect that could be offset by running a little bit of toe out?
Nope, not really. Look at the suspension and figure out what each of the three adjustments can do under turning. You might be able to offset a little of the effect, but I kind of see it as a band-aid at best. But your best bet is to play with it and find out what's best for your car.

Also, the problem with too much toe-out is that the outside wheel describes a different arc than the inside wheel - if you have too much toe-out, you begin dragging one tire, slowing you down. Ackerman geometry is supposed to take care of this, but I think that adding toe-out interferes with the design....

Jim

Actually caster affects camber when teh hub is turned off center. Bump has nothing to do with it.

Basically caster is a measure of the angle of the steering axis. With Positive caster, the steering axis is tilted backwards looking from the side. So as you turn the wheel towards the opposite side, the caster translates into negative camber, and turning away translates to positive camber (up luckily on the unloaded side).

So for camber challenged cars, I would figure on maximum positive caster to help that out, and live with the other effects.

A little toe out will help the turn in and also get a little more out of the inside tire.

Is the caster adjustable on E46's in stock form?

looking at my wife's e46 325i's front struts, it looks like there are no camber or caster adjustments in front, just toe.

E46s do have camber adjustment. There is an alignment pin on the top of the strut tower. Remove this, loosen the 3 strut nuts and shove the strut inwards on teh slotted holes.

on the e46 325 I only saw 1 alignment hole for the strut mount. It can only go in one way since there is a raised notch on the strut hat. Where did you see the different slots? e46 m3?

on the e46 325 I only saw 1 alignment hole for the strut mount. It can only go in one way since there is a raised notch on the strut hat. Where did you see the different slots? e46 m3?

Check this thread out. Removing the pin will only give you about -1 degrees, but it's better then nothing.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=159808&highlight=alignment+pin


There must not be any adjustment on caster though, either that or it was already set max positive from the factory because when I had my alignment done I asked for max positive caster and it stayed the same.

OK, cool.

Check this thread out. Removing the pin will only give you about -1 degrees, but it's better then nothing.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=159808&highlight=alignment+pin


There must not be any adjustment on caster though, either that or it was already set max positive from the factory because when I had my alignment done I asked for max positive caster and it stayed the same.

Yep, looks like it's not adjustable. Oh well, it was worth a shot!

John