Ok i realy love the 2002 and ive always wanted one. Right now i owne a 95 325is. i was woundering if it would be worth selling it for about 9 grand and buying a 2002 for prolly about 2 grand and spending the extra 7 grand on moding? Also how much can i do with 7 grand to a 2002 all opinions wanted please post!


also anyone in so cal area selling one?

If you were to get a 2002 for $2k it would probably need a bit of body work because of rust. If however you got one without rust you could build just about anything you want to with the money letf over from the E36.

If I could go back and do it again I would have put a S14 from an E30 M3 in the car, but that will run you about $7k.

7k for mods? lets see and assume a 2k stock no rust car. You will need
Bilstein sports (400), Eibach springs (250) e21 320is steering wheel (50) E21 320is recaro seats (500 for a nice pair) carpet (250) back seat redone (250) Big brake DIY (e21 323i rotors,e21 320 hubs,used volvo calipers, brake pads,wheel bearings and new lines $300) rear e21 320 brakes (40). Sway bars (350) Suspension bushings F&R (250) Front spoiler (Ireland, 250) Upgraded H4 lights (100) redone Alternator (100) used 15 in. wheels with some rubber (500) and you got 3590. Now the engine I would go for a used M20 (baby six) lets say 500 for a complete nice compression late 325i model and now the most important stuff a triple sidedraft manifold for some fat webbers (400 they are rare though but youy can get them) 1200 for three of those bad boys and you got around 5300. Around 1000 for the exhaust, tranny and shaft and you got 700 left for the for the stuff I forgot (radiator and hoses) and tools you will need to the most of the work yourself. This puppy will be a true sleeper and will kick some serious ass. Try to get a 73 roundie with the euro bumpers no smog in Kalifornia. Check the 2002 FAQ board, it's the best.
BTW I am doing this and tha't close what I am spending ( I am overspending in some areas lie a cr tranny and a 2.7 build and leather interior and blah blah blah).

One way of looking at this is since you are planning to do so much to the car, your biggest concern will to get a nice shell. Something straight and reasonably rust free. Everything else will be gone through so it doesn't matter and 2k should be plenty to get something in need of much help.

For 7k, you have a lot of options. I am doing a m20 turbo swap which could be done in your 7-9k budget. A s14 swap would be another option but it could get a LOT more expensive IF the motor needs work. The s14 option is an easier and more "exotic" swap but for the same money it take's to aquire the motor and run through it I picked up a nice m20, stroked it to 2.8, slapped forged pistons in it, went through the head and slapped a turbo on the side. You might still be able to get in on the carbon fiber hood and trunk group buy that Coop is putting together (do a search for "coop carbon fiber hood" on the bmw2002faq site to find the info) which would be sweet and still come in under your 7k cap.

Bottom line, with your budget, the mods are endless for these cars - go for it!

Thanks alot for everything i was woundering what kind of power i can get out of one with the original engine but with mods

oh and does anyone want to buy my e36

When you say stock engine do you mean stock internals of just still using the M10.

the factory engine with performance parts on it like what can i do or is it just cheaper to do the engine swap

This is the same question both I and many others have struggled with. I ended up going with a swap mainly for one reason, reliability. The m10 is a fine motor but looking at things realistically and trying to make a motor that will put out a lot of power while still being reliable was going to be tough. This of course is all relative to what you consider a lot of power. A "steetable" setup with high comp pistons, big cam, etc was going to yield somewhere in the 170bhp range (estimated). Sure you can make more but hard starts, reliability and longevity will all be problems. You can also throw a turbo on the m10 and make in the 200 bhp range. Some have made even more than this but again, your trading reliability for power. A stock m20 “I” motor puts out just shy of 170 bhp new (168 I think) and is about as reliable as they come. Loosing some of the parasitic devices like fan, ac, power steering, etc, will probably yield a little more than the stock rating. Throw a few mods like big afm, bigger injectors and you will be well into the 180’s at the block. Sure it will add a little weight, around 50-100 lbs depending who you talk to but all that I have talked to say it's not noticeable as the motor sits lower and further back than the m10.

Cost: Well, a good used m20 with all the "stuff" you will need will probably run around $700-1000. Transmission will run another $500 if you can find one used, $1200 new. $100 for motor mounts then throw a few hundred in for things like drive shaft shortening and a few other things. Bottom line for around $2500-3000 you could possibly do the swap which is on par with what a "built" m10 will run.

The m20 isn’t a terribly hard swap. I am in the middle of it now.

I would recommend a swap over putting a fully built M10 motor back in. The reason I say this is because i did the fully built M10 and now I can't drive it on the street, well I can drive it but it's not any fun below 3500-4000 rpm's. I should have about 190hp at the crank maybe a little more once I get it tuned correctly. The problem I have is with my camshaft, it's a 304 degree cam so the power I want doesn't kick in till higher rpm's. This engine also cost me a lot more than the M20 swap and doesn't have that much more power.

I have seen a M10 built with upwards of 220 HP but they are even worse for street driving, the one I saw had a larger cam and a S14 crank. Unless you want to get into vintage racing I would go with the swap, for all other club racing and daily driving the M20 would have the same power and more reliability.

In order to get the power you want without the swap you will need the following...
Large Camshaft
High compression pistons
Dual valve springs
larger displacement (maybe, I have 2.1L)
Dual Webers of Fuel Injection
Larger Valves
and there will be lots of small things that go with rebuilding an engine.

Add the cost of having someone do all the engine and head work to the cost of parts and it's already a few thousand.

ok ive heard that i can swap the m10 with an e30 motor. Is this true? how much would that cost and how much would it cost. and how much would a turbo one cost to put in?

You probably mean the m20? The s14 offered in the ///m is nice but VERY expensive and the 318/e30 came with a m10 which is actually a loss of .2 ltrs. The m20 can be “turboed fairly easy. A few people make manifolds and the rest is fairly simple to work out. If you are looking for a kit, you might try Turbocharging Dynamics TCD (http://turbochargingdynamics.com) . I have been working with them on the kit for my car. They have it priced at about $3800 for the entire stage one kit. You can run this on a stock motor without problem and realistically see around 260HP+ at the wheels! The only problem we have found so far is the turbo interferes with the idler arm because it is mounted on the bottom of their manifold. I have worked out (actually copied someone else’s idea) a way to integrate a e28 idler arm bushing/mount onto the sub frame that gives enough clearance. The other option would be to convert to rack and pinion which is a real pain. You have to cut and re-spline the steering shaft, fab a bearing/mount where the steering shaft goes through the firewall and fit the u-joint in-between all the braking linkages. I think it can be done but it's not going to be easy so I went with the idler arm mod instead.

when it comes down to it i want to build a 2002 that will beat my friends 95 325is that has an m3 tranny, lightend fly wheel, and a remus exhaust. what can i do. keep in mind i only have a 6-7 grand budget.

Trust me, you want the S14 or the M20. I spent several thousand on my engine and I'll win off the line to a stock 325 but it will take me once we hit about 60-70. I would stick with the M20 because it has more potential than the S14.

7k for mods? lets see and assume a 2k stock no rust car. You will need
Bilstein sports (400), Eibach springs (250) e21 320is steering wheel (50) E21 320is recaro seats (500 for a nice pair) carpet (250) back seat redone (250) Big brake DIY (e21 323i rotors,e21 320 hubs,used volvo calipers, brake pads,wheel bearings and new lines $300) rear e21 320 brakes (40). Sway bars (350) Suspension bushings F&R (250) Front spoiler (Ireland, 250) Upgraded H4 lights (100) redone Alternator (100) used 15 in. wheels with some rubber (500) and you got 3590. Now the engine I would go for a used M20 (baby six) lets say 500 for a complete nice compression late 325i model and now the most important stuff a triple sidedraft manifold for some fat webbers (400 they are rare though but youy can get them) 1200 for three of those bad boys and you got around 5300. Around 1000 for the exhaust, tranny and shaft and you got 700 left for the for the stuff I forgot (radiator and hoses) and tools you will need to the most of the work yourself. This puppy will be a true sleeper and will kick some serious ass. Try to get a 73 roundie with the euro bumpers no smog in Kalifornia. Check the 2002 FAQ board, it's the best.
BTW I am doing this and tha't close what I am spending ( I am overspending in some areas lie a cr tranny and a 2.7 build and leather interior and blah blah blah).


wow...this is an awesome to-do list!

when it comes down to it i want to build a 2002 that will beat my friends 95 325is that has an m3 tranny, lightend fly wheel, and a remus exhaust. what can i do. keep in mind i only have a 6-7 grand budget.

you need to specify in what you want to beat the 325is? All you need is a good paint jobs and you will beat him in getting the chicks :)

steve

What's the difference between the S14 and the m20?
(is there as sticky on engine/chassis codes so I don't have to ask these noob questions?) :)

The S14 is the 4 cylinder from the E30 M3, the M20 is the 6 cylinder from the E30. I don't know if there is a sticky on engine codes, if someone has a link to a page with them post it otherwise I'll see what I can put together later.

Ok thanks...I didn't realize they did a 6 but went to 4 for the ///M
that's interesting...

Ok thanks...I didn't realize they did a 6 but went to 4 for the ///M
that's interesting...

at that BMW's Formula 1 motors were based on m10 block. s14 is also based on an m10 block.So i guess they were going for //m with what worked for them.

here is a link for some engine info :

http://www.bimmerdoc.com/new/engine_des.htm

steve k

thanks a lot guys all i need to do now is sell my car and buy a 2002

i can get a rust free 75 with all the basic studff done like suspension and the manifold swap and webber carbs for like $500 soo i think ill be getting that

my 325is is still up for sell

i can get a rust free 75 with all the basic studff done like suspension and the manifold swap and webber carbs for like $500 soo i think ill be getting that


Dang - you're lucky!