It was announced yesterday that BMW Motorsport and BMW Team PTG will not be racing in the 2002 ALMS championship with the M3 GTR. The reasons cited were due to homologation issues with the ACO. There will be no BMW's in the ALMS or at LeMans in 2002. We may see a comeback in 2003. Here is the complete article:http://www.theracesite.com/index.cfm?pagetype=2&form_article=2826

Brian

ACO did a great job blowing this one. Maybe, just maybe Porsche might finally be happy. Nah, they dislike themselves too.

This sucks!!!! Here is the link to the PTG site

http://www.ptgracing.com/releases/2002_0122.htm

The M3's were the only reason why I was going to races! I used to go to the Sears, Laguna, and Atlanta races. It's a sad day for the M3 race fans.:bawl :bawl :bawl :bawl :bawl

Here is a quote from an email my father recieved and forwarded to me about why they decided to call it quits.

"They did at NCC's PTG Tour Saturday morning. The main problem is with the
"moving target" rules that kept changing as the season went on. In large
part BMW and PTG are trying to force a single set of rules that are
interpreted from the original French just once during a season at the
beginning of the season.

To penalize BMW and PTG for not meeting their end-of-season interpretation
(instead of just meeting the rules at the beginning and middle of the
season) they decided on something like a 100kg penalty and tiny little
restrictors. Tom did say the restrictors weren't really reducing their
speed much as they kept getting smaller last year. Tom (Milner of PTG)
would like to have tried to race under their penalties but both Tom and BMW
agreed that if they still won the rules would just keep being reinterpreted
until they couldn't win at all.

Also, BMW never planned a big production run of their race car. The minimum
needed for homologation for 2002 just happened to exactly match what Porsche
had produced because they had customers for them."


My father recieved this from someone who knows many people in BMW racing so I believe it until I hear otherwise.

Brad

Most of what you posted is probably true. I know a guy who races old PTG cars in GrandAm. In talking to him, as he is more than likely PTG's biggest customer, it seems that Porsche has the ACO on a leash right now. Remember back when Porsche brought the GT3-R out for racing a few years ago...making the BMW's COMPLETELY uncompetitive until the introduction of the V8? Well, that engine that Porsche used couldn't be found in ANY of its street cars either. And Porsche actually had to balls to COMPLAIN about BMW at the beginning of the season when the V8 first started racing. Though their complaining didn't get the job completely done at first, it gradually forced more and more restrictions onto BMW.

The $$ needed to spend to keep up with the regulations isn't worth it to BMW. BMW will sell M3's in America whether they race them here or not. How many M3 buyers do you think actually even know that BMW races in ALMS, or even what ALMS is?

The V8 engine will be used by Schnitzer in the DTM series in Europe, where BMW will go up against Audi, Mercedes and maybe Opel (can't remember). Over there, racing makes a difference in sales, as the general public and car enthusiasts are more in tune with road racing. All the rest of the Motorsports budget will be focused on beating Ferrari in F1.

I look for ALMS GT class to be REALLY boring this year. When the ACO realizes that a bunch of Porsches racing each other isn't good racing, they'll lighten the rules and we'll see the BMW back in ALMS racing next year. I sure would have loved for PTG to be able to make the trip to LeMans this year though!

For now, I wonder what PTG will be up to? I'm guessing they'll do some GrandAm racing with their current cars. I'd love to see them take a stab at World Challenge Touring and GT class. It would be great to have a world class team in the series and would force everyone to step their preperation up to a new level.

Go BMW/Williams. Beat Ferrari.:buttrock

Well damn. . .
Penelized for coming up with a better engine/chassis config?
bah. . .

The March 2002 European Car magazine has an interesting article on M Power. Included was a slip from within about the V8's power to include in a book.

."BMW's own horn-tooters let some info slip in the 'BMW engine two-volume set'. BMW Motorsport Ltd is charged with developing engine for racing, and in 1999 debuted the P62 a 4.0L V8. It was based on a production engine but weighted 152lb less, coming in at just 363lb with dry-sump lubrication and barrel throttles. The BMW Mobile Tradition book indicated that the engine was 'built to meet American requirements' and developed in the neighborhood of 600 bhp. Kind of makes one feel sorry for the people who have to race a Porsche against it"

Also Bill Auberlen makes a quote about the V8 supposedly only having 444 hp against the 420 hp of the CSL. "Thats the most power 24 horses you ever saw. That is what I know"

If this is correct, I might be complaining too. There is no way Porsche can come up with anywhere near 600 with only Atmospheric 6-cyl power

It definitely doesn't make 600 hp in race form. That has to be the power the engine makes with an open intake. They run with restrictors. The restrictors got smaller and smaller as the season progressed. I'd fathom a guess of around 450-460 hp.

BMW will kick arse returning to the DeutscheTourenwagenMasters, after all theyre only CLKGTRs, Audi TTs and Opel V8s as rivals, now there will be real competition....


http://www.dtm.de
:buttrock

Didn't BMW win in the GT class at the Petit Le Mans last year? Isn't a win at that race a free ticket to LeMans itself? If so, will they at least be there?

Good question? I know that they were just at the latest race in Florida. I think that they just can't race in the ALMS series?? But not too sure.

Any input from someone would be great.:)

Are you referring to the Rolex 24 at Daytona? I'm pretty sure that it was the Grand Am team at that race, and they aren't affiliated with the BMW ALMS team. Too bad they didn't win that! It was still a cool race though.

Originally posted by 1994 332 TMS car
Good question? I know that they were just at the latest race in Florida. I think that they just can't race in the ALMS series?? But not too sure.

Any input from someone would be great.:)

ya, that's why I thought that they wren't allowed to run specifically in the ALMS. There are soooo many rules it is a pain in the arse to keep track.:(

I think they will run le mans, but it is a HUGE cost so it might not happen.

Grand-Am rules made an exception for a BMW that is running a bone stock 5.0 liter M5 V8 engine. That is the V8 M3 that raced at Daytona. Grand-Am is a completely different sanctioning body with completely different rules.

The ACO, which makes the rules for LeMans and ALMS will not be allowing the V8 M3 to run without huge restrictions to the engine. Thus, BMW will not be at LeMans, even though the PTG team qualified to go by winning the Petit LeMans at Road Atlanta.

That sucks big time!!

When you say bone stock. Do you mean they souldn't do anything at all to the engine? Or that they have to use all of the same components?

Originally posted by 1994 332 TMS car
When you say bone stock. Do you mean they souldn't do anything at all to the engine? Or that they have to use all of the same components?

Yeap, I mean stock. Save for the exhaust which is obviously opened up. There may have been a differeny set of cams, but I believe it was stock.

It doesn't suck that bad, the engine does make 400hp stock. With an open exhaust, race gas, and some race electronics, they are probably getting 430-450hp out of the engine, with loads of torque.

Bryan,

I went on the PTG tour in 2001 when they were just transplanting the M5 V8's into the Grand Am cars. We asked Tom what they did to the engines and here is what he said was modified.

mild race cams
stronger valve springs
*maybe* solid lifters
stronger/forged rods
forged pistons - mild bump (.5-1.0) in compression
Balance & blueprinted (i bet some port matching & crank work)
dry sump lubrication
race engine controlers (Motec or whatever)

but yes, basically stock motors when it's all said and done. I'm guessing about 500 horsepower (at that time). I believe they have since been restricted down...

Originally posted by melmyers12
but yes, basically stock motors when it's all said and done. I'm guessing about 500 horsepower (at that time). I believe they have since been restricted down...

Huh, weird. I got my information from Rick Fairbanks (Genesis racing) who was running 6-cylinder M3's in Grand-Am. We bought a Motorola Cup car off of him and hung out in his pits (with Bill A. and his cute wife :)) at the Daytona 24 two years ago.

He was under the impression that the car was more stock than that. However, that was the first race for the M5 engined M3, so he might not have been up to speed yet.

If I remember correctly, the first time they used the M5 motor it was very stock. But the following year they changed a ton and gained a ton of HP which is when they started to get some serious shiet for it from the good old Porsche boys!!

Last year (2001) was the first time they used a V8 of any kind... Rolex 24 in 2001.

The modifications I listed are considered pretty mild for such a high level racing organization.

Being the pitch man that Milner is... imagine what else was done that he didn't say...

Hey, even I'm learning to advertise my car's horsepower as 240... and this is for STOCK class racing... ;-)

I thought that they raced it in the tail end of 00? Maybe I am just getting confused. There was a time when I thought they were running the 6 and 8 at the same time and the 8 was pretty stock? TOO MUCH STUFF TO REMEMBER!

REmember that there are two different series running here.

PTG runs ALMS, they prepare cars and give support work for teams in the Grand-Am series.

Here's the deal

2001 Daytona 24 (G-A): 3 teams, all running PTG prepped. E46 M3.. 2 w/ M5 V8, 1 with S50B32

2001 Sebring 12 (ALMS): PTG ran their cars w/S50B32, but Schnitzer (BMW) ran the 4.0L V8 GTRs

After Sebring, PTG got a hold of the GTR's and ran them for the rest of the season.

YOu may not know that PTG leased one of their cars to Schnitzer (BMW) in the 2000-2001 off season for testing and development of the GTR.

Thanks, I allways forget that stuff. :clap: :D :clap:

Maybe you should try and get your hands on one next Brian :alright

Man, F@#K PORSCHE and F@#K THE ACO!!!!!!:mad:

MMT - Please watch your language as this is a public forum. Use the edit function and change your wording at the nearest oppurtunity.