Here in Dallas, yesterday a friend of mine (QuikAg on most boards) went to a buddys house who had a new Blue Evo. He has acat back exhaust, boost controoler running 19 psi and some software tuning. He thinks he is around 260-270 whp. Also, he said that he has pulled about 115lbs out of the car.

So, yesterday we decided to do some friendly runs to see what the result would be... Oh, I have a 2001 Ti/Ag 6 speed and other than my 18' 245-front and 275 rear SSR Comps my only performance mod is the Active Autowerke's exhaust. I weigh about 215 lbs and my car is loaded with all the options (s/r, power seats, HK stereo......) Does anyone know what the 3415 listed weight includes??

Corey followed in his modded C5 and videoed all 4 runs. We did all 4 runs from about 20 mph to 110 or so....I dont' know how to post the videos but here are the results:

1st run, I got an immediate 1/2 car lead but mid 3rd gear he pulled even (maybe a little ahead before we shut down.

2nd run was weird... I jumped again but something happened to him on his 2nd gear shift. So I slowed down and we went again and the same thing happened. He said that he didn't mis shift but something was weird. Anyway, both of those runs were over very quickly.

3rd run was longer and it was hard to tell but his 3rd gear was pretty strong. As I was shifting into 4th, he was about 1/2 car ahead but we were running a long sweeping corner and he was able to cut across the apex so it was hard to tell who really was pulling on whom.....


Anyway, the runs were pretty even and I was very surprised with my inital jump ahead and with with how strong his 3rd gear seemed to be. I don't know if those cars are as strong at 100+ but we plan to go back out and see......


What is so weird about these runs is that I have had runs with other E46M3s that weren't that close. Before my engine blew up (#129) I had a pretty strong M3 and pulled (ever so slightly) on a few other M3s that I have run against (usually about 1 car from 20 to 100 mph or so). I haven't run any E46M3s with my new engine though.....

Anyway... for what it's worth.

Cool stuff, man! The rumor is that BMW lists their weights for cars assuming a 175 lb driver... to give you an idea...

I've read that that list also includes a gas thank that is 90% full. Gas weighs around 6-8 pounds per gallon. I don't think the curb weight would include any non-standard feature.

Nice runs.

yes, but does the weight include all of the options? Power seats, sunroof and stereo upgrades add up to quite a bit of weight.... I'd bet more than 100 lbs......

yes, but does the weight include all of the options? Power seats, sunroof and stereo upgrades add up to quite a bit of weight.... I'd bet more than 100 lbs......

How's that engine doing?

Last time I heard from you was when your engine blew :(

isn't it more like 10 pounds per gallon? That was the ratio I followed when I was into dirtbikes.

New engine is doin great. No problems at all. The car runs pretty well and I still love the sound of the AA exhaust.

Nice runs... His gears are so "long" because his sfotware tuning most likely increased his red line to 7800-7900 rpm, removed fuel cut, removed boost taper, and the speed governor. Tell him to turn up the boost :eek:

He says he is getting a test pipe (I am guessing that is from the turbos to the cat?) and wants to put new cams in. Why he would even want to crack open the block is beyond me. I would think there is easier hp to be found with more boost or new turbos......

Oh well.....

cams make dramatic gains on a 4g63 and its not nearly as much money or as hard to install as say adding cams to a bmw. I know alot of people who have installed them in their back yards.

Glad to see a fellow longhorn on this board!

He says he is getting a test pipe (I am guessing that is from the turbos to the cat?) and wants to put new cams in. Why he would even want to crack open the block is beyond me. I would think there is easier hp to be found with more boost or new turbos......

Oh well.....
Test pipe is a "cat converter delete" pipe. So he's gonna run catless. He's on the right track already. He will need to complete the rest of his exhaust system (down pipe and cat back) to complete the "turbo back exhaust."

But he's making a big mistake if he intends to do cams (the car may gain some hp, but will run like s$%%). They are a WASTE of money in the grand scheme of making the car exponentially powerful (instal will take a good 8 hours and w/o the right ecu tuning the car will run like crap)... By the time he pays for the cams he can have most of the following (below) paid for.

All he needs to do is 1) finish the turbo back exhaust (cat delete is a good start), 2) AES Stand Alone Engine Computer and 3) Bigger FMIC (front mount intercooler).
This set up makes 360 wheel hp 1) on the stock turbo 2) stock exhaust manifold 3) stock internals and 4) only 20psi (aka low boost).

Now if he wants to get "giggy with it" he can later upgrade to a bigger turbo to make hp in the 500's (a $1200-$1800 dollar investment and direct fit to the Evo exhaust manifold with a coupling flange).

Please tell him not to waste his money. Hell, have him PM me for advice.

1) Turbo back exhaust with cat delete (aka) test pipe (3" is about $1000 and 2.5" is $800)
2) AES stand alone engine computer (w/ UEGO and MAF delete) ($2000 and worth every penny)
3) A bigger FMIC ($800-$1000)

I am adimant about this if you could'nt tell.

4-BNGR

cams a waste of time? tell that to the guy in our area who is trapping 118 with cams intake afc reflash and full exhaust and 110 octane. I think any 4g63 guru will agree that cams on this motor are a must. Just like any mod it will not run to its full potential without a tune.

i can host your videos if u want... ill teach u how to do it.. do u have aim? if so.. im me at bleach427


brett

cams a waste of time? tell that to the guy in our area who is trapping 118 with cams intake afc reflash and full exhaust and 110 octane. I think any 4g63 guru will agree that cams on this motor are a must. Just like any mod it will not run to its full potential without a tune.


those mods, minus the cams, and he still oughta be trapping damn near 118.

with 110 octane, unless he's mapped for it, its slowing him down. it'd allow for MASSIVE boost to be run... say, about 25 lbs, provided the factory turbo is capable of it.

chip, i/e, manual boost controller. figure a MAX of $2g's. that setup on a vw 1.8t is good for an easy 240hp/260lbs... and that puts you at around 15lbs of boost.

add sticky tires, more boost, all wheel drive, limited slips, etc... you better be trapping quickly.

240 to the wheels???

cams a waste of time? tell that to the guy in our area who is trapping 118 with cams intake afc reflash and full exhaust and 110 octane. I think any 4g63 guru will agree that cams on this motor are a must. Just like any mod it will not run to its full potential without a tune.

Hear me now and believe me later... Yes cams are a waste of money!!! Sounds like this guy is using the Buschur Racing Stage 3. Something is strange however where Buschur manages a 115mph trap only using 94 octane.

The set up I mentioned above (with only a rough tune aka 340 all wheel horse power) will trap the same time using 93 octane "everyday" gas :lol:

Here's the "pudding"

http://www.evomoto.com/product_info.php?cPath=4&products_id=118
http://forum.aempower.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=6589

Nice kill, makes me wish I still had my Evo :(

I'm not going to argue with you about it on this guys thread if you want to continue this conversation pm me

I am the guy who was driving the Evo. I was really impressed with the power of the M3. The cars were almost dead even power wise. Quikag and I came to the conclusion that gearing was the difference. The M3 has a gearing advantage in 1st and 2nd, but the Evo gearing is more aggressive in 3rd and 4th.

Just to clear something up.... An Evo with cams will make more power than an Evo without... To say cams are a waste of money isn't a very accurate statement.. Please show me an Evo without cams, headwork on the stock turbo trap 118... I would have to see this to believe!!!

Fun stuff. :D The race was basically too close to call for the most part.

I'm not going to argue with you about it on this guys thread if you want to continue this conversation pm me

m3racer36:

Not arguing, just stating my personal opinion. Yes cam's will make more power as I've stated above but I beleive they are a waste of $ where a standalone ecu, FMIC, and test pipe are a better foundation for making more power.

Xstang:
The evo you are reffering to if you recall was using 110 octane to achieve that trap. With 110 octance a Camry could make a respectable pass (I'm exaggerating but you get my point).

AS for the proof you asked for (stock turbo, stock internals, stock head)
1) With 110 octane this car can easily do it http://www.buschurracing.com/EVO_Stage2.html
And it uses an "inferior" SAFCII to controll air/fuel and is further restricted by the MAF. The Stand Alone I mention is exponentially tuneable and makes much more power than a ecu flash, piggy back computer,.. whatever else. It also allows for the deletion of the restrictive MAF.

Furthermore the 343 wheel hp figure given on the Stg. 2 Buschur car reflects wheel hp made on a 2 wheel dyno only. They are acheiving their 1/4 trap of 111 mph on 94 octane gas.

A tuned Evo with 1) turbo back exhaust 2) stock turbo 3) stock head 4) stock internals 5) fmic upgrade and 6) stand alone ecu makes 340 all wheel hp (about .50 - 70 more wheel hp than the Buschur Stg. 2 car) .
Oh and it will make the 118 trap using 93 octane gas. It will trap even higher speeds if the "2 step launch control" function is utilized (aka launching with full boost from the starting line).

IT's been fun, I gotta go do some reading now :(

4-BNGR

I guess we agree... Given the same setup, a car with cams will make more power than a car without... With that said,I could see a standalone in my near future.... :cool:

Just curious, do you have a link to this setup you are referring to? I have yet to see a 118 trap speed without cams... I would love to see a video or a slip. 111 by Bushur is light years away from 118.... A 3118 lb Z06 with 360 to the wheels would be hard pressed to trap that... more like 116-117 with 20 more HP than you are referring to. I should be 320-330 to the wheels after the test pipe, intake, and cams.... A new intercooler setup will be another 15-20... That puts me at 340-350 without a stand alone...

This is why I tore into the motor:

The Evo really needs ARP bolts. Most failures that I have read about have resulted from head gasket problems - the stock headbolts cause stretching. To change the stock bolts, IMO - the stock head gasket needs to be replaced to do it right. Some people just replace one bolt at a time. I think that process can cause warping of the gasket which will prevent a good seal. So, if I am doing bolts and the motor is open, I figure.... why not throw in some cams, springs, retainers??? :)

If your're gonna "dig" I would first port/polish/flow test the head. Talk about rearl worl gains :devillook

4-BNGR

Yeah... I like that Bushur head for $1600.... I've eyed that for a long while now!!!

good stuff, yea i heard about bmw taking into account the weight of the driver as well, has anyone ever stopped at the weighing stations to verify this?