View Full Version : Battling are Swirl Marks


Hyperion
01-12-2002, 07:32 PM
Ok... I am really board today incase you could not tell...


What are swirl marks?
Swirl marks are small, and sometimes not so small scratches that coat the entire surface of a finish. A swirl mark is more visible on today’s cars with there clear coats which are intended to protect the finish. This clear coat which is intended to be a glossy, reflective, and continuously smooth surface will be ruined by these millions of microscopic scratches that dull the finish, and make the car look old. The reason is the scratches do not reflect the light, instead they hold onto the light, and it makes the scratch show up quite easy on a cars surface especially a darker colored car. And all of this can easily be prevented if the proper precautions are followed.

What causes swirl marks?
Swirl marks are caused by sandpaper. Now it is not the sand paper you are most familiar with that you have probably used to sand down wood, instead it is sandpaper of a microscopic lever. And the sad part is most damage is done when people are trying to polish the car and make it shine. When someone is washing, polishing, waxing, or using too heavy of an abrasive and there are still particles left on the car and they try cleaning off the surface in fact what they are doing is dragging those particles back and forth across the surface. Essentially you are sanding down the surface of your car with dirt, and it is leaving millions of scratches on your finish. Swirl marks can also come from using an abrasive towel or one that leaves no place for the particles to go. That is why it is always good practice to keep lots of clean towels on hand, so that you can change them out and make sure that there are no particles between your surface and your car. Prevention goes a long way with keeping your car up, running, and looking good.

How do I prevent swirl marks?
Preventing swirl marks is the easiest and also the hardest task. It requires diligence commitment, and dedication to doing the job right, and not doing the job in a hurry. Rushing a job causes swirl marks. It is when a dirty towel is used that already has particles from your last job are raked across the surface, or an improper towel is used. Preventing swirl marks is all about treating your surface right. Don’t use hash abrasives on it, and don’t allow left over dirt to scratch up your surface when cleaning your car. Make sure your car is absolutely clean before you attempt to use a power or hand waxing or polishing product.

Improper toweling was mentioned a couple times, what does that mean?
The only type of towel that should be used is 100% terry cloth cotton. Some synthetics may claim to be better than cotton, but they just don’t cut it like Mother Nature can. The cotton is absorbent, while that is not only good for making your job go faster, and take less effort it also draws the particles which can scratch your surface away from the surface and thus protecting it and keeping it clean and scratch free. It is good practice to have lots of towels for working on your car. In fact, I think it is a good rule of thumb that you can never have too many towels, and they can never be too clean. Don’t use the same towels you use for mopping up spilt oil off your garage floor on your waxing jobs, its not only bad practice, but it is just asking for trouble. Try and keep a separate towel for each product, you are currently using. You do not want to accidentally get a harsh abrasive on your surface while you are trying to polish the car. In the end cotton towels that are clean, rotated out frequently, and properly used will save your finish, and prevent you from wasting a lot of time down the road.

I have swirl marks, now how do I get rid of them?
Well, ok, the inevitable has happened. You have swirl marks now its time to get rid of them. Now there are many ways to do this…. They are known as right ways, and wrong ways. The goal of removing a swirl mark is to get back the original continuously outer coating on the car, now you can just cover up the scratches with a polish or wax, and the car will look good for a few days and then they will come back as your wax/polish oils evaporate. That is the wrong way. While it may be cheaper easier, and actually fully complete the job in some cases, it is not the way to permanently remove a swirl mark. What needs to be done is the surface needs to be re-leveled, and evened out to your deepest scratches so that it leaves a completely smooth and continues clear coat, and not just one that still has scratches that are filled in. A scratch remover or light rubbing compound like 3M will do the trick for your light scratches. To heavy to moderate swirl marks a more abrasive polishing product is required. While it was mentioned that earlier that polishing would not work and only last so long is correct and wrong. You see the rubbing compounds and abrasives that are used to remove swirl marks create millions of smaller scratches, and these smaller scratches needed to be polished, and polishing will completely take them out, and leave a continuous surface to reflect light and leave a lasting shine on your car (when in doubt always go for the less abrasive product), If you have really stubborn swirl marks and you cannot get them out by polishing waxing rubbing compounds or scratch remover, then it is time to go to your local pro. They will have the tools, know how, and experience to get rid of even the worst scratches. They will also have the knowledge and availability of a high speed rotary buffer, and wet sanding not something that everyone has. Also the improper use of a rotary buffer and an abrasive can cause more damage than good, and also it can burn or dig into the surface of the car if the operator is inexperienced. This is not to say you cannot do this yourself, just pratice makes perfect, and if that requires you to go and practice on a body from a junk yard first until you get it perfect so be it. But when in doubt, go ask a pro.

I got rid of my swirl marks, but they keep coming bad, what is wrong?
As mentioned above you either just covered them up and once the oils have evaporated they have re-appeared, or you have just put new scratches into your surface by improper use of dirty towels, or harsh abrasives. If you continue to keep getting swirl marks on your surface and you think you have solved the problem, what you want to do is change your toweling, cease all use of abrasives on your finish, cease waxing, and only water the car do not wash it. If your car does not get new scratches after a couple days than the problem is somewhere in what you stopped in those couple of days. But if the scratches come back, than what is happening is you either have not fully covered up the scratch, or the products you are using just are not cutting it. If you are in doubt whether you have fully removed a scratch try this little trick, spray a bottle of half isopropyl alcohol and half water on the surface. The alcohol will dry out the surface quickly, and you can see if you have gotten rid of your problem. If the problem still persists and you have tried and changed everything and you cannot locate the source of the problem, then it is time to go ask a pro.

318 - KR
01-12-2002, 07:41 PM
Thanx Hyperion... :eek: :eek:

That Tutorial/Writeup was excellent... really informative and I extremely helpful... :) :) ... will that be part of your site... :confused: ... or do I have too save it as a word document... :D !!

Cheers Buddy... Keep The Info Coming... :redspot

Hyperion
01-12-2002, 07:48 PM
I don't know any more, I am kind of confused. I have been though probably 300 BMW/ other car sites in the past 2 days. I have seen sites that are so damn good it would be a disgrace just to try and copy them. I have seen sites that have professional after professional who have gotten this stuff down to a sicence. I do not know if I am going to even be having a site at this poing. I am going to have to look into it as a money issue, time issue, and see if it would be really worth it to produce a site when there are always better sites out there that will always be able to explain something easier and more effectively. So I don't know, what I am doing right now.

But I am working out arangements to go to one of those car car clinics where they teach you everything from fine scratches to major detailing and you get real hands on experience... I think I am going to have to buy a high speed rotary buffer...:devillook

318 - KR
01-12-2002, 08:20 PM
Please Please Please Make The Website... :) :) :) ...

There are not too many Tutorial/Do-It-Yourself sites out there... :( ... no really good ones for BMW's anyways... :( ... that would be a really helpful resource, you are making, for so many people... :)

Good Luck Hype... :)

PS: The course sounds pretty cool... :redspot

Hyperion
01-12-2002, 08:25 PM
Ya, but with Jon Caldito making a page entirely dedicated to DIY's, Jim Powell's which has everything from performance to how to's to DIY's, and Unofficialbmw.com, and Ben Liaw's Big BMW Link page... Well you get the pic, there is not alot of demand for another page out there. I am still going to continue to work on it, I just do not know if it will be published on a .Com, or I might just put up my pages on a free site, and have it all ghetto with the banners and everything.

318 - KR
01-12-2002, 08:33 PM
Keep trying I guess Hyperion... people always have something new too add... :) :) ... Seedster's website only has two tutorials, but its such a cool page... :) :) ... just make the page and do what not, and see how it comes along and if you can host it and what not... :) :)

Cheers Hype...

PS: What existing bookmarks do you have apart from Powell/Seedster on DIY/Tutorials..??

:redspot

Hyperion
01-12-2002, 08:37 PM
I just got random junk right now, sorry that it is un-alphabitized, and just jumbeled around.



EDIT: I just realized I cannot spell worth crap... Battling "are" swirl marks... Man I am an idiot...

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318 - KR
01-12-2002, 09:05 PM
:eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2:

----- > Cheers Hyperion < -----

Hyperion
01-12-2002, 09:07 PM
I just realized I cannot spell worth crap... Battling "are" swirl marks... Man I am an idiot...


I got more than that, but alot of them are of poor quality, I don't want a link that has a crapy site, to me if your site is crapy and I was intending on doing business with the person, I will just look for another competor... I hate crapy sites, and in the last couple days I have seen really good sites... And I have seen really BAD sites...

318 - KR
01-12-2002, 09:11 PM
Hahaha... Was wondering bout that... I didnt even quite understand the title of the thread... but I read it caus it was in this section, and by you.. :) :)

Please keep the links coming mate... E46 Fanatics is a good tutorial one, but its all for E46... :( ... so yeah, any links too tutorials or do-it-yourself things or little things would be excelltn, those are my favourites... :) :)

Cheers Mate...:alright

Hyperion
01-12-2002, 09:19 PM
The title was origionally "what are swirl marks" but that made it sound like I was asking a question... So I changed it...

Try http://www.unofficialbmw.com They have lots of tutorials, and there used to be this place BMWMPOWER.COM, but I think they are no longer... If you cannot find it on unofficialbmw then go over to Ben Laiws Links list, and if you cannot find it there hell froze over...:evil2

bw345678
01-18-2002, 01:11 AM
Hey, just in case you haven't checked Autopia out, it's an excellent automotive detailing forum. Type in "swirls" in their search function... and :eek:

http://www.autopia-carport.com and click "Forums."

SeRg M
01-18-2002, 01:54 AM
Nice write up ! Thanks for the info !:alright

Lance325is
01-20-2002, 01:28 PM
whar local automotive retailer sells 3m products. My Advanced Auto parts sure doesnt. :95

Hyperion
01-20-2002, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by Lance325is
whar local automotive retailer sells 3m products. My Advanced Auto parts sure doesnt. :95

Hmm, i have been picking mine up from Pep Boys and Kragen, but you could probably call around and find some places that carry it. I would even try a Wal Mart or K Mart, or maybe even a Home Depot. Just give them a ring. If not buy it online. But 3M is the most widely know company for products, I am sure any place you will go will have it or be able to get it.

Lance325is
01-21-2002, 12:15 AM
there's a pep boys up the street i think I will have to give them a ring...thanks for the info and nice write up...