Assume for an instant that money is not the issue. Would you pick up an E39 M5 right now? I know most of the people under 25 here would say, "of course ..." ... but, try to see the big picture on it.

a) E60 M5 is coming out ... has the E39 M5 prices dropped in light of that knowledge yet? Or, will the bottom fall out WHEN the E60 M5 is released in the U.S. I believe there were 8,000 some M5's sold in the four years. That's quite a bit.

b) Will the E60 M5 price be to high and cause the E39 M5's price to stabilize? The E60 M5 should be around $85K. A 2000 M5 right now is around $40K-42K, a 2001 around $43-44K, etc... add $3K per year increase.

c) Would you forego the E39 M5 and just wait for the M4 to come out?

d) Is the E39 M5 a car that you think you all would keep for at least five years? The major criticism of the E39 M5 is that the car is NOT a true "M" car as the E34 was and as the new E60 will be. It's a bastardized child.

e) Would you rather have a manual E46 M3 (waranty) that is newer or a 2000-2001 M5 (no warranty)?

Insurance on the two cars is the same for me, around $580 every six months. I am just worried that the E39 wil cost a crapload to maintain. The E46 should be cheaper to maintain. Plus, I do not want to have the bottom fall out on me with the E39 prices ...

You asked, I answer: I wouldn't buy one. The M5 is a great car for what it is - a big, heavy, powerful, V8 sedan.

I hear it handles great for a 4000lb car :eek:

I would rather have an E30 or a 318ti with an E36 M3 motor in it.

I'm with John on this one - but for different reasons. As the newer cars come out, I don't like the idea of the amount of electrical things controling the cars. Before it was just wear and tear parts, and now they are going to be computers that need to be replaced. The new cars now will cost big money when they get old.

Now if you are talking about a daily driver that is still under warranty, and you are going to keep the E36 for tracking, then get the M5. :)

Yes, I would. It would make a perfect family car - room for 5, understated looks (to the untrained eye), yet more than enough power to spank most cars dumb enough to try and play with you.

A friend of mine just picked up a M5 and tracks it all the time...

His opinion is that the new M5 will be too pricey and make the E39 even more attractive. <shrug>

I personally like the E39 M5 and like others have said.. you can use it as a family hauler, grocery getter, daily... and then drive it to the track in comfort.....

James-

You have an E36 M3 that you are using for DEs and autox. What will be the purpose to have the second car-by that I mean, will this be your non-event car?

Will it be something to drive around town, bring the the dogs in, etc? Just wondering because you are also throwing in M3/M4 variants into the picture. Or are you just looking at it from a sheer price view-as the cars mentioned and compared aren't quite apples to apples... If you got the M3 or M4, although they are newer models than the E36 M3, essentially you will have 2 of the same thing in raw terms-a 2 door sport sedan.

From a point of view of which vehicle (M3/M4 vs M5), why not get the M5? Like I said previously, you already have your "driver's" car, and though I haven't seen it, I would assume it is still streetable and you can take it out for when you really want a sporty ride AND you could have the more utilitarian M5 for luxury. Not too shabby having a roomy leather lined sedan that can put down low 13/high 12 second quarter mile times.

Now, having voted for the M5, let's talk price. I would think when the E60 M5 comes out, I think that prices for the E39 M5 will fall out but then stabilize. So for purchase, it may be best to wait a bit for the E60 to come out to let it hit the E39 market prices to downsize buy/resell losses when you sell it.

My reasoning for price stabilization after the initial hit is that now you will have a high performance car in that will be more accessible to the "average" public and I think the price will be somewhat supported by second hand market. So, now you have what used to be a $70K M car that people lusted after, available for the price of a 330i ZHP. Maybe this is a stretch, but it's these people nowadays who want to "live the lifestyle", blowing every mis-managed penny on a car, that create this market.

Bottom line... you have the M3 for the weekends, the M5 for weekly duty.

Assume for an instant that money is not the issue. Would you pick up an E39 M5 right now? I know most of the people under 25 here would say, "of course ..." ... but, try to see the big picture on it.

a) E60 M5 is coming out ... has the E39 M5 prices dropped in light of that knowledge yet? Or, will the bottom fall out WHEN the E60 M5 is released in the U.S. I believe there were 8,000 some M5's sold in the four years. That's quite a bit.

b) Will the E60 M5 price be to high and cause the E39 M5's price to stabilize? The E60 M5 should be around $85K. A 2000 M5 right now is around $40K-42K, a 2001 around $43-44K, etc... add $3K per year increase.

c) Would you forego the E39 M5 and just wait for the M4 to come out?

d) Is the E39 M5 a car that you think you all would keep for at least five years? The major criticism of the E39 M5 is that the car is NOT a true "M" car as the E34 was and as the new E60 will be. It's a bastardized child.

e) Would you rather have a manual E46 M3 (waranty) that is newer or a 2000-2001 M5 (no warranty)?

Insurance on the two cars is the same for me, around $580 every six months. I am just worried that the E39 wil cost a crapload to maintain. The E46 should be cheaper to maintain. Plus, I do not want to have the bottom fall out on me with the E39 prices ...

I would wait a year or two after the new M5 comes out that way all the problems with the car would be worked out and that way the E39 M5 price will be really low..

I love the M5. I wouldn't run it as a beater, though. If you have stuff to haul, a 540 wagon would be sweet. Add power with supachaaaga as needed.

and, since you asked, I'd rather have a new E46 M3 over a used E39 M5.

Thanks guys. The M5 would be a daily driver for me and my all-around hauler of crap. I would drive the E36 on the weekends and in bad weather. The M5 would probably never see an auto-x or track course, other than maybe 1 or 2 times just for the heck of it. The M5 would be used to get groceries, buy paint and haul stuff from home depot, lowes, take the dogs around in, etc. If I bought it, I plan on keeping it until it falls apart (which might be sooner than later, hehe).

The E36 I can live with for a little while (maybe one year daily driving it). Either this saturday or sunday, some of you can see the E36 at the auto-x. It's pretty radical for a street car. The M5 will be out of warranty if I wait 1-2 years. The reason I threw out M3/M4 variants (new ones) -- is you have to see/understand how my current one is setup. Imagine bare metal, roll bar, racing seats :eek: ... I wanted something safe and fun to drive.

That's what I am wondering Jed and Eric. The E60 M5 might be priced so high, that it makes the E39 M5 look like a bargain. I mean, seriously, all the power of an E55 AMG is nice; but, how useable is it around the metropolitan DC area unless you like having a roommate named Bubba? 394 hp and 362 ft*lbs of torque is plenty fast for ANY car in this region. The V10 will make the E60 M5 have a pretty high insurance rate.

See, one problem I am having is why spend the money on an M5, the E39 540i sport is plenty fast. I was impressed. It's fairly cheap -- I mean around the $20K range and you get a really nice car that has four doors. I do not want to be a badge-buyer. I like BMW's, not for the image; but, for the handling and overall package. I can't think of another sedan that would handle as good as a BMW and give as complete of a package as the E39. GS 430 -- no way. G35 sedan -- I thought about it; but, I don't know, not really impressed for the price. Maxima -- you got to be kidding me ;) Acura TL-S -- or TL, maybe ... haven't really thought of that one seriously. Insurance was higher on it than the M5, go figure for the Infiniti and Acura.

John and John -- I'm pretty much done with modding cars. I realized these past couple of years of how much I wasted in money. It didn't make me a better/faster driver. Spending money on auto-x and track is doing that. I picked up the E36 for that purpose, to be the fun car. Remember, I did an engine swap into a 325is, it costs around $6K all said and done and then need to do suspension, subframe reinforcements, etc. To me, might as well buy the E36 from the get go and drop weight as much as possible. My car with me in it and full tank of gas weighs around 3050 lbs -- that's good enough for me.

John D. -- you make a good point. Electronics ... bmw is not well-known of their electronics expertise. The M5 would not be under warranty, I would be purchasing used. I never purchase new, I'm unwilling to take the depreciation just to say I have a new car. I would like a four door vehicle though ... b/c in the long run, it makes more sense for future expansion.

Yeah James, I was thinking it more along the lines of an autocrosser/track car, which it is not. But for an around town grocery getter, road trip vehicle, picking clients up and going to lunch, you really cannot beat it. So I say go for it.

Then again, Rob suggested a 540i wagon, that would be a great car too. 540is are plenty fast.

John

I can't think of another sedan that would handle as good as a BMW and give as complete of a package as the E39.

CTS-V

http://www.cadillac.com/images/models/ctsv/gallery/photoExt3_med.jpg

What about an SUV James? I know you have been throwing that idea around. You would save quite a bit of money on maintanence costs (Maybe not fuel depending on the vehicle).

If you are not concerned about badges, I would opt for the 540. Fantastic car, comfortable, plenty of room and none of the premium price of the M5 maintanence. Also, lower initial cost (just make sure it is a six speed).

Pete

James, do you still have your E46 M3?? :confused:

James, do you still have your E46 M3?? :confused:

Nah, he sold that, and wrote up another novel in the E36 and E46 forums as to why he did. :)

The M5 would be a daily driver for me and my all-around hauler of crap. The M5 would be used to get groceries, buy paint and haul stuff from home depot, lowes, take the dogs around in, etc.


If this is the case, and you don't need the luxury of the 5 series, I'd go with a WRX wagon, and then you could use it in all weather and not worry about it, and make your E36 a track queen.

I'm pretty sure suggesting a subaru on a BMW forum is going to go over like a fart in church, though. So, I'll stick with the 540i wagon, or maybe even a 3 series wagon. A 540i 6 speed sedan would be sweet too, if you decided you didn't want a wagon.

If you are not concerned about badges, I would opt for the 540. Fantastic car, comfortable, plenty of room and none of the premium price of the M5 maintanence. Also, lower initial cost (just make sure it is a six speed).

Pete

you could always just put an M5 badge on the 540.... :devillook :nono

http://www.roadfly.org/bmw/classifieds/cars/detview.php?view=23993&sortby=&dir=

I think james has an aversion to high mileage vehicles

You know my answer...OF COURSE !

For $40K I don't think you can find a better sedan out there. Probably not till you reach the $60K range.

And as for 540i vs M5, I actually settled this debate in my head when I drove a 540i then a week later drove a M5...world of difference and just the sound makes it worthwhile

The only thing I would rather do is a 540iT with supercharger...now thats kickass

Jeff

For $40K I don't think you can find a better sedan out there.
See my post above....what is it about the CTS-V that you guys are against? A Corvette sedan; sounds like a winner to me :buttrock

I second the CTS-V

Bren - I am not a fan of the way it looks. That's my problem. I want something that in 5 years, still looks good. For instance, E36, LS400, pretty much all of the MB models, etc.

If it makes a difference, it seems pretty credible:

a) base price will be AT LEAST $78K, and most likely around $81K. Optioned out you are looking at around $85K+ for the E60 M5. Half of them believe it will be around $90K well-optioned. Most of them do not care if prices fluctuate $5-10K. They said they are okay with it, just keep it below $95K.

b) The arrival date is the most uncertain. Most M5'er's that are on the waiting list believe end of 2005 (October) which is a '06 model. That makes sense and correlates to what magazines are saying.

c) There should be a crapload of 2003 M5's for sale at that time. A lot of the M5 owners leased a 2000 then renewed the lease for a 2003 which ends exactly at the time that the new E60 should be out. A lot of the 2001-2002 owners are not sure what to do ... since their leases end early. Most of them are selling the cars to avoid the depreciation. So, another pretty significant influx of cars by end of this year and early next year.

That said, I still think 2000 M5 will be the best deal out of all of them b/c of the 4:3 screen and missing angel eyes.

Nah, he sold that, and wrote up another novel in the E36 and E46 forums as to why he did. :)

Man, I can't keep up with James and his constant changing of cars. :help

:D

I second the CTS-V
Why get something that was designed to imitate the M5...just get the real thing.

Jeff

I would rather have an E30 or a 318ti with an E36 M3 motor in it.
Hell yeah, a ti would be a good car.

James, I'm with you, I'm getting to older and modding cars not what it used to be to me, I just let Doby do all my work now. I started looking for a 4 door E36 M36 (has to Alpine White Greg) and now I'm thinking a nice 540 or a 540it would be cool (I can always RACE Doby's car :stickoutt )
540 vs M5, I would do the M5. Like most have said it's a awsome car for it's size right of the box and you can carry around four adults.
I'm also toying around with picking up a nice X5 3.0 with a stick and a Sports Package, then maybe I'll get a RACING kart :)
Who knows what i might do.

Why get something that was designed to imitate the M5...just get the real thing.

Jeff


Cause the new with warranty caddy costs as much as the used without warranty M5

hey guys,

i think i can add something here.
first off i do currently have my 03 M5 for sale. not because it's not a
great car but i'm getting married in a couple of months and also starting
construction on a new home in 2 weeks. i thought i might be better off
selling the car but to be completely honest....screw that!!! i'm keeping my car. :) these cars are truly special.

i did quite a bit of research on the net for reviews of the car before i purchased it. 99.99% of the reviews i found were overwhelmingly positive. the M5 is considered to be one of the truly universally loved cars on the planet. even with the new E60 showing up in a year or so that doesn't diminish what a great car the E39 is. also when you check opinions on the net about the new Bangle designed BMW's you mainly here very negative opinions. i few one can easily state that when i search again for a new car the new 5 series will not be on my list.

keep this in mind also....even if you love the look of the new 5 series and want to go a step further and purchase an E60 M5...how long will you have to wait for it and just how much are you willing to pay for a high performance mid size sedan. i've got to think that the E60 will cost 80k plus.

in some ways i feel BMW is going astray like MB did in the mid to late 90's. it's almost like they don't care what their customer wants or thinks. kind of like they know what's best for you. i think MB has learned their lesson and has dramatically upgraded their interior quality and added more options. take a look inside an 03 5 series and then take a look at the 04 5 series interiors. you can instantly see that the quality has taken a step back.

so....in the end if you like the E39 M5 and you find one that really grabs your attention i would definately consider buying it. the car covers such a broad spectrum. it's comfortable, fast, handles well, safe, and most of all an attractive automobile.

ps. sorry for being so long winded :)

Bren - I am not a fan of the way it looks. That's my problem. I want something that in 5 years, still looks good. For instance, E36, LS400, pretty much all of the MB models, etc.
Well I can understand you not liking the looks....I didn't like it at first either but now it has grown on me (function over form I guess.) In any event I still think it's worth a look; who knows maybe the performance will make you overlook any style issues. Like JTerp said, you get M5 performance with a new car warranty.

CTS-V

http://www.cadillac.com/images/models/ctsv/gallery/photoExt3_med.jpg


i'll take da Lac any day..

NoSoup4U,

I'm looking into M5s right now also. I don't know rather to make my M Coupe stupid fast or get an M5. But if I did go the M5 route I'd most definitely get a CPO'ed one from a dealer. It comes with a 6 year/ 100K warranty which makes it hard to beat. That's how I got my M Coupe, CPO'd, and I wouldn't do it any other way now. (Plus I know of an 02 coming off of lease in July in the same color combo I want. Damn decisions.)

Personally, I don't know of a better sport sedan bargain out there. Good luck either way you go.

~Matt

I think the E39 M5 is more of an M car than the E46 M3.

And yes, I would buy one in a heartbeat.

Purv944 -- have you looked at the CPO warranty and what it covers though? I mean, many things are NOT covered that were originally covered under the manufacturer's warranty. Plus, it's not 6 years/100K from the time you buy it, it's basically 2 years/50K from the in-service date. I am primarily looking at 2000-2001's. The CPO usually adds around $3K to the price. If the car has $3K worth of repairs in 2yrs/50K, then, it's a POS IMO.

Han -- I do not know about that issue. I just know that many of the AVID M5 owners (the ones that own Zanardi's, F40's, F50's, X50's, etc as their track/play car -- the people with like 5 car garages) believe the E39 M5 deviated from the motorsport roots and that this new M5, even if bangladized, returns back to those roots.

For anyone interested, I am passing on a 2000 M5. It has 38K miles or so on it, and you can buy it for 39.5K which is a pretty damn good price. I also did a prepurchase on it -- checked out fine -- I did a 250+ point inspection, basically, the same one BMW uses to certify vehicles rather than just a mere 90 point pre-purchase inspection. It has PDC as an option and the skig bag. No rear sunshades. For an extra $2800, you can get a 7 yr/125K warranty (from DATE OF SALE -- :eek:) to cover the vehicle as well. It's worse than the CPO warranty ... but, hey, it protects engine and tranny (for the most part) and some misc. crap. You MUST buy at time of sale though, you can't add it later on.

Bren -- well, if NYQUEENZ would take da Lac -- that pretty much settles it for me. I "ain't" gonna roll in da lac then :stickoutt

I have to say this ... every M5 owner that I've talked to, emailed, etc ... all of them have loved the car and PAINFULLY let it go (*cough significant other can't drive* :stickoutt). I may wait until this winter when a lot of the 2001's should be coming off leases. Who knows, I've never had NAV, so the 4:3 screen of the 2000 does not bother me as much as some of the other people.

i'll take da Lac any day..
I had to read this like 4 times to figure out what it meant :help


:laugh

Han -- I do not know about that issue. I just know that many of the AVID M5 owners (the ones that own Zanardi's, F40's, F50's, X50's, etc as their track/play car -- the people with like 5 car garages) believe the E39 M5 deviated from the motorsport roots and that this new M5, even if bangladized, returns back to those roots.
I don't really think the M5 ever had any motorsport roots. It's always been a "wolf in sheeps clothing", a 4 dr sedan built for cruising on the autobahn.

And IMO, the guys who own F40's and F50's are usually the ones who know the least. They go by whatever is printed in the latest edition of C&D or what their buddies from the golf club say.

They go by whatever is printed in the latest edition of C&D or what their buddies from the golf club say.

Magazine racing is where it's at!

like the guy in that autox video of the F50 plowing through a course worker and going down a flight of stairs. :biglaughb

like the guy in that autox video of the F50 plowing through a course worker and going down a flight of stairs. :biglaughb

WHAT? Video please...

Raining and understeering, and turning the wheel MORE? :eek:

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMzU2MzM4NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D

Oh, and forgot to add... FRENCH:rolleyes:

like the guy in that autox video of the F50 plowing through a course worker and going down a flight of stairs. :biglaughb
:lol: Wonder if he was wearing his UnderArmor?????? Might have helped.