Today i was having my power steering lines replaced and i was talking to my mechanic about how i wanted more horsepower. He told me that he had just read an article in some magazine about this dry shot nitrous system. http://www.zex.com/store/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=ZX&Category_Code=NX

he explained that it was good for up to 125 hp and that the nitrous was only used when the throtle was opened up completely due to the fact the the whole system is run by the car's computer. I expressed my hesitation to use nitrous in my car because of all of the bad things i've heard about the car going Boom and the fact that my 325 has 102k miles on it. He tried to reassure me with the fact that he's had nitrous on his car for years and that it's fine and that a 100 shot kit wouldn't hurt my car especially with this sytem. He told me if i got the kit he'd install it on my car for free which was nice to hear but i dunno. I've been tossing around the idea of installing a 3.23 diff and a lightweight flywheel for faster acceleration but for that price i could have this nitrous system and some actual horsepower. I can't imagine my car with another 100hp.....it is pretty tempting but i wanted to get everyone's opinion on it. if u don't have first hand experience with nitrous please don't post. thanks guys
matt

100 Horses on your 2.5 is like 250 horses on a 5.7.

It depends a lot on the adaptibility of the particular system you have, the engine managemtn that is. You are increasin the horsepower of your vehicle by 50%...

Is the management capable of delivering that much more fuel?

It is a risky way to increase horsepower. Also motor longevity will decrease due to the increased loads on the rings, pistons, rod bearings etc.

Tony from VAC gave his views on increasing horsepower. For every pound you shave off the circulating mass of the drivetrain, it is roughly equal to a 17 pound weight reduction in the car.


Power to weight ratio is the key to improve acceleration.

I would avoid it if you could.

well, it would be really easy to avoid based on the fact that i'm broke at the moment. Just tossing the idea around. i need way more feedback before i make any decisions regarding my pride and joy.

its cheating, well to me it is

Originally posted by mattneedsaBMW
well, it would be really easy to avoid based on the fact that i'm broke at the moment. Just tossing the idea around. i need way more feedback before i make any decisions regarding my pride and joy.

Gut the car of sound deadening material, trunk trim and anything you don't need in there. That is free for you Mr. Idea kicker:laugh

NO2 = 1/4~1/2 the price of a turbo system
NO2 REFILLS = $30-$50 per bottle (some large shot systems use more than 1 bottle)
NO2 system = +/- 3 runs depending on how long you lay down the throttle

Turbo = consistant gradually increasing load on engine from midrange through top end all the time
NO2 = sudden high shocking load on engine but only at WOT

now if the loads on the engine were all the same in the long run, you tell me what's more worth it.

Originally posted by darien28
NO2 = 1/4~1/2 the price of a turbo system
NO2 REFILLS = $30-$50 per bottle (some large shot systems use more than 1 bottle)
NO2 system = +/- 3 runs depending on how long you lay down the throttle

Turbo = consistant gradually increasing load on engine from midrange through top end all the time
NO2 = sudden high shocking load on engine but only at WOT

now if the loads on the engine were all the same in the long run, you tell me what's more worth it.

okay, im shure this is gonna start a debate, but i gotta say something.


PROPERLY INSTALLED AND MANAGED, nitrous is no more dangerous than any other form of forced induction.

i ran nitrous on my motor for 2 years before i installed the turbo. its a good way to go faster even if it is a crutch. i hated filling the bottle. turbos dont need to be refilled :)

the amount of runs you can make on a full bottle are determined uppon how big your bottle is, how much you spray and how long your spraying. on a tipical 10 lb bottle you can spray a 60 shot for a duration of about 140-160 seconds. that duration can be increased with a bottle heater.

so, if you spray for the whole 1/4 mile, and you run a 14 second quarter mile. you should have enough for 10-12 runs. more if you start spraying later. like in 2nd gear and on.

nitrous has a bad reputation because its easy to install and cheap to get. there are morons do something wrong, blow up there motor and blame it on the nitrous. there is nothing wrong with nitrous. follow a few simple rules and youll be fine.

get a kit witn a window switch. so if you miss a gear it will not spray.

get a wet nitrous kit. they are harder to install but overall they are safer to run.

dont spray below 3000 rpm, avoid spraying in first gear

get colder plugs. 2 degrees colder is recomended.

retard the timing by atleast 1 degree. 2 degrees are recomended.

do not spray more then 30% of the engines stock hp rating. (i.e, if the stock hp is 100, dont spray more than a 30 shot. if its 200 stock hp, dont spray more than a 60 shot.)


follow those rules and you can run nitrosu all day long and you will never have a problem.

:rolleyes: People, hes asking for educated thoughts on nitrous, not misinformation. ;)

I have been running nitrous for awhile now with no problems what so ever. Search my username for more details, i've posted over and over again.

Get a NX standard import kit, it injects both nitrous and fuel so its safer the the dry zex kit. Do not spray over a 75 shot if you are currently running a chip that advances timing.

The 75 shot will give you 75hp right when you hit the switch and even more torque(75-130lbs more depending on motor)

If nitrous is cheating, so is a SC or Turbo? The standard 10 pound bottle will last me 20+ 1/4 runs!

"NO2 = 1/4~1/2 the price of a turbo system"
:rofl: sorry have to laugh at that one. I payed a total of $700.00 for my nitrous kit. NX wet kit, window switch, and some small safety features.

Ill be dynoing next saturday the 27th and will post the results when I get them.

First of all, nitrous is perfectly safe if used correctly and installed correctly. I hear about so many people on this forum saying nitrous is dangerous because it will blow your motor, blah blah blah. Sure you can blow your motor if you run an insane amount of nitrous, more than your motor can handle, but lets face it, BMW does not make shitty engines, and even moreso, they do share the basic principles of all other engines. Just go to LS1 boards or Supra boards and you will know what nitrous is really about. I don't get why people are so scared and against nitrous on BMWs. If we are that afraid of blowing our motors, then why don't all of you guys that drive a manual car fear of mechanically misshifting (money shift) and blowing your motor then? You cannot ALWAYS prevent yourself from mechanically misshifting because it's human error (accident), but you CAN prevent blowing your motor with nitrous if you install it correctly and use the proper amount. Example: you put a 75 wet shot in, that jet size is NOT going to somehow turn into a 150 shot. IMPOSSIBLE! But who says you won't one day be driving down the freeway and accidently slip it into 2nd gear at the top of 3rd going into 4th?

If you want cost effective horsepower and huge gains of it, then nitrous is exactly the way to go, especially if you want huge gains out of a BMW safely. And don't give me that shit about refilling a bottle X amount of times will not be worth it and it'd be more worth it to go with a Turbo/Supercharger. A 10 lb bottle will give you about 20+ runs, and it costs about $32 to refill. Putting a turbo/supercharger will cost so much more and then you have to take into consideration the tuning part. You put on an NX Standard Import Kit Single Fogger you will not have to worry about tuning your car, and you will not have to worry about blowing up your motor. If you do not believe me, then feel free to PM me and talk to me about it because I have first hand experience on nitrous on BMWs. In fact, I'm going to be installing a wet 75 shot nitrous kit on a 96 M3 tomorrow. In a few weeks I will show you a dyno chart of a 75 shot on a 95 M3 with CAMS (his motor is not blown!) and I will even show you a dyno chart of a 75 shot on an E46 M3. 11:5:1 compression ratio and 8000rpm redline = blown motor? Wrong. That equals M POWER.

BimmerJim - Couldn't of said it better!

Don't go above 25hp/cylinder, use copper plugs 1-2 heat ranges colder and use a window switch for perfect safe nitrous operation.

I used nitrous for several years. perfectly safe if setup correctly. I even installed safeguards just to be sure.

The only thing I ever did was melt a couple plug when I was experimenting with a plate and ran too much timing advance.

cylinder pressure is what makes power. whether you get it from high compression, turbo/blower or nitrous.

way too much myths flying around. that F&F movies didn't help either.

700 for a NO2 kit.. yeah 1/2-1/4 the cost of s turbo kit...

turbo kit is about 1500-3000 depending on what you use. this is of couse you piece it together yourself and know what the hell you're really doing as opposed to a inflated sense of "know-it-all."

anyways...

I didn't know you guys are talking about drag racing... >.> I would've never responded if you're only using it for drag racing... I think dragging in a BMW is stupid... BMW's were built to handle not drag. well, anyways... let's drop that drag stuff...

1 bottle is only good for 20+ 1/4 runs? so let's say it's good for 24 runs... u mean to tell me that after 6 miles of WOT your car will become docile again... that's no fun to me.

NO2 just doesn't last long enough to warrant it being used on the road, on cruises, or for road racing.

if I want more power, I want to be able to sustain the powerband all the time... but that's just me. I also hate charging batteries in an RC car... only fast til it runs out of batteries (<5 min) that's why I went nitro! blah.

Originally posted by skatedog00
its cheating, well to me it is

That's because ur driving an M3, you already have plenty of horsepower.:D

why is wet shot more safe then dry shot?

What's up Brekyrself? Where you doin your dyno run?

I dynoed my M3 at UTI with modifications such as OBD I manifold, ITG intake, AA exhaust, Ignition Solutions plasma coilpack. I received 292 hp at the wheels and 320 torque at the wheels. I'm using a nitrous express wet kit 75 shot. It's easy to install. No retard timing needed. You have to use a wet shot so you can mix the fuel and nitrous on the fogger nozzle as it kicks in. Also try to use it around 3000rpm to 6000-6500 rpm by using an rpm window switch. This is one of the ways you can make sure using nitrous wouldn't blow your car up.
Anyways, who the hell is talking about drag racing. What would you do if some V8 or STI is messing with you on the light while you're still saving up for a supercharger or a turbo kit? No one is talking about cruising with nitrous on you fukin dumbass. You shouldn't talk about nitrous if you don't have experience about it. You're just basing it on what you hear, which is a bunch of crap. The cost of a turbo kit is only 1500 - 3000, damn if that's all it is everybody would have it. Probably with fucked up tuning. Maybe on an E30 it is, but the guy who's asking has a 325i 94.

Bottom line is I use my car everyday. It doesn't mean I run nitrous everytime I step on the pedal.

292hp at the wheels and 320 torque is running with nitrous to clarify that

Originally posted by darien28
700 for a NO2 kit.. yeah 1/2-1/4 the cost of s turbo kit...

turbo kit is about 1500-3000 depending on what you use. this is of couse you piece it together yourself and know what the hell you're really doing as opposed to a inflated sense of "know-it-all."

anyways...

I didn't know you guys are talking about drag racing... >.> I would've never responded if you're only using it for drag racing... I think dragging in a BMW is stupid... BMW's were built to handle not drag. well, anyways... let's drop that drag stuff...

1 bottle is only good for 20+ 1/4 runs? so let's say it's good for 24 runs... u mean to tell me that after 6 miles of WOT your car will become docile again... that's no fun to me.

NO2 just doesn't last long enough to warrant it being used on the road, on cruises, or for road racing.

if I want more power, I want to be able to sustain the powerband all the time... but that's just me. I also hate charging batteries in an RC car... only fast til it runs out of batteries (<5 min) that's why I went nitro! blah.

You clearly have no clue as to what you're talking about.

For a half decent turbo setup, you ARE going to run up $5000 after install. Sure you could buy the barebones for $3-4k (dont know where you're getting $1500 from), but you still need to factor in tuning, cooling, etc..

Its great that you're not into dragging your M3. Neither am I, but I sure would like a boost of power from time to time. And frankly getting that for $700 is great for someone who simply can't blow $5k on an FI setup. Yes, you have to refill the bottle every once in a while...big deal. If you're running 6 miles on a wide open throttle on a daily basis, then going FI isn't probably the best option for you either.

If you seriously think that you can piece together a full turbo setup fo $1500 - $3000 (self-installing it of course) please do post it. I'ld love to know.

Originally posted by mattneedsaBMW
Today i was having my power steering lines replaced and i was talking to my mechanic about how i wanted more horsepower. He told me that he had just read an article in some magazine about this dry shot nitrous system. http://www.zex.com/store/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=ZX&Category_Code=NX

he explained that it was good for up to 125 hp and that the nitrous was only used when the throtle was opened up completely due to the fact the the whole system is run by the car's computer. I expressed my hesitation to use nitrous in my car because of all of the bad things i've heard about the car going Boom and the fact that my 325 has 102k miles on it. He tried to reassure me with the fact that he's had nitrous on his car for years and that it's fine and that a 100 shot kit wouldn't hurt my car especially with this sytem. He told me if i got the kit he'd install it on my car for free which was nice to hear but i dunno. I've been tossing around the idea of installing a 3.23 diff and a lightweight flywheel for faster acceleration but for that price i could have this nitrous system and some actual horsepower. I can't imagine my car with another 100hp.....it is pretty tempting but i wanted to get everyone's opinion on it. if u don't have first hand experience with nitrous please don't post. thanks guys
matt

By the way, if your mechanic seriously told you to use a Zex 125 DRY shot in your car, then I'ld start searching for a new mechanic :)

jtgm3 - wait do I know you? James with the white m3 we meant at dominicks on ogden??

Yup

Originally posted by darien28
700 for a NO2 kit.. yeah 1/2-1/4 the cost of s turbo kit...

turbo kit is about 1500-3000 depending on what you use. this is of couse you piece it together yourself and know what the hell you're really doing as opposed to a inflated sense of "know-it-all."

anyways...

I didn't know you guys are talking about drag racing... >.> I would've never responded if you're only using it for drag racing... I think dragging in a BMW is stupid... BMW's were built to handle not drag. well, anyways... let's drop that drag stuff... then why did you even bring it up? seemes to me you would have been better off not throwing in your .02. but, thats just MY opinion....

Originally posted by darien28
1 bottle is only good for 20+ 1/4 runs? so let's say it's good for 24 runs... u mean to tell me that after 6 miles of WOT your car will become docile again... that's no fun to me.

NO2 just doesn't last long enough to warrant it being used on the road, on cruises, or for road racing.

first off, as i stated in my previous post, the duration of nitrous you can use is determined by the amount of nitrous you have and the amount that your are injecting into the motor.

ill let you in on a little secret......................... you can have more than ONE bottle.................. but dont tell anyone!! its a secret!!! :12:

:confused: im geting the impression that you dont road race or auto x your car much. or if you do, you dont see what others are doing. contrary to popular belief, nitrous is not limited to drag racing. nitrous is used on road courses and auto x quite frequently. venom makes a progressive nitrous kit that is made specificaly for road racing. NOS also makes a progressive nitrous kit, infact, almost any kit can be used.

if you had a dataloger you would see that WOT is not used for the great majority of the time that somone is road racing or in an auto x. on very few ocastions will you have the chance to open up the car on a long stretch on nearly any road course. most of the time the car is in a partal to off throttle state. so, a 10 lb bottle can be made to last quite a while on a road course.

Originally posted by darien28 if I want more power, I want to be able to sustain the powerband all the time... but that's just me. I also hate charging batteries in an RC car... only fast til it runs out of batteries (<5 min) that's why I went nitro! blah.
how often do you realy sustain WOT in any condition? how long and how flat are your roads where you live? seriously, if 5+ minuets of floring your car is not enough,... well.... you may need anger therapy. or i hope you have one damn good mechanic and a thick wallet.

you should realy learn more about what your talking about before you post. i could say a few more things about how i feel about your posts but i will keep them to myself.

Originally posted by sardil
By the way, if your mechanic seriously told you to use a Zex 125 DRY shot in your car, then I'ld start searching for a new mechanic :)

agreed. 125 shot is way to much for any stock motor under 5 leters of displacement.

and to ad to my previous post of dont's:
do not spray for more than more than 20 continuous seconds at a time. (you should be moving prity good by then anyway)

oh, and to awnser the other guys question about wet vs dry, its in the way it works. someone else already explained the wet kit "wet kit sprays fuel with the nitrous." well, a dry kit uses the poressure of the nitrous to pressureize a fuel pressure regulator, that in turn raises fuel pressure to the adiquite level needed to provide enough fuel to acomidate the nitrous being injected. the downside to a dry kit is that it takes just a split second for the nitrous to hit the fuel pressure regulator, and then a split second for the fuel pump to build fuel pressure to match the nbitrous that has already started to be injected into the motor.

so, wet: fuel and nitrous at the exzact time. dry: the fuel upport is delayed for just a split second and it can sometimes cause detonation for that split second before the fuel catches up.

First off, BimmerJim knows his shit.

Second, search my name and nitrous on DTM. You will have days of reading material!!!!

Originally posted by skatedog00
its cheating, well to me it is

I'd like to hear this explanation. :laugh :laugh

I could write a 10 page paper on Nitrous use and how safe it CAN be, but I'll just leave it alone. There is already some good info in here.

Bottom line,

NX kit, don't exceed 75 shot w/out timing tuning, buy safety items (window switch, etc), and be SMART.

People who are so aganist N20 can just get used to seeing tail lights or wasting money on overpriced BMW Turbo kits on the market (getting better, but still $$).

that's why I'm building my own turbo system... because kits are too $$$ and WAY overpriced.

i know there are progressive NO2 systems out there and I know that you can run multiple bottles n stuff. however, I was referring to the original post of running a 125shot dry system that only shot at WOT...

i just know that a turbo system can be had for not that much more than a NO2 system, and would much rather build a turbo for myself than run NO2.

I don't road race in excessive amounts, but I've had my chare of track time and autocrosses, and haven't seen any NO2 systems out there... but then again i never really waled around looking into the engine bays of other ppl's cars.

speaking of overpriced turbos and stuff... I was taking apart the dinan s/c from my recently bought M3... damn it's sooo simple. supercharger cost +$100 in parts sums up the entire kit... how lame... i can prolly piece together my own system and sell it for 3k while still earning a 100-150% profit margin.

Originally posted by darien28
that's why I'm building my own turbo system... because kits are too $$$ and WAY overpriced.

i know there are progressive NO2 systems out there and I know that you can run multiple bottles n stuff. however, I was referring to the original post of running a 125shot dry system that only shot at WOT...

i just know that a turbo system can be had for not that much more than a NO2 system, and would much rather build a turbo for myself than run NO2.

I don't road race in excessive amounts, but I've had my chare of track time and autocrosses, and haven't seen any NO2 systems out there... but then again i never really waled around looking into the engine bays of other ppl's cars.

speaking of overpriced turbos and stuff... I was taking apart the dinan s/c from my recently bought M3... damn it's sooo simple. supercharger cost +$100 in parts sums up the entire kit... how lame... i can prolly piece together my own system and sell it for 3k while still earning a 100-150% profit margin.

I'm begging you for details on this turbo setup for cheap you keep mentioning.

This threas reinds me of people fighting about their meatloaf recipe...nitrous is like anything else, you are increasing volitilty of fual and fuel. Most people have no clue as to what they are talking about when it comes to engine tuning. Proper managemnet of course will get you through just about anything, but rememebr, nitrous is a CATALYST...any peice that wanted to burn inyour engine before will be dying to burn with nitrous....like turbos,,,its all in the management

i obviously know next to nothing about nitrous which was my whole reason for posting. is there a wet shot kit on the market that works similarly to the zex dry shot kit in my link....something that activates itself at WOT?

the road course tracks don't allow nitrous.

I would say a dry kit is "safer" than a wet kit. fuel injection manifolds are meant for air only. wet kits can puddle fuel that can lead to nitrous backfires. say you spin then bog, etc.

I never had a problem with a dry kit (uses 2 solenoids)running lean during initial activation. the no2 is sprayed before the TB so it has to travel through the long runners. whereas the nitrous pressure to the FPR is sourced from after the 1st solenoid.

I normally don't purge the lines but even when I do I never get a inital lean condition. Except the time when I was messing with a plate install where the fuel solenoid was FURTHER away from the nitrous solenoid.:-(

nearly all nitrous kits are desgined to operate at WOT. you can rig the system to operate at the push of a button mounted on your steering wheel if you so desire.

theres:
NOS
Venom
Holley
JG eddelbrock
ZEX
TNT
NX

and im shure im forgeting some.
the kit I would recomend is the NOS NOSzle® system. it uses injector seats that go betweent he fuel injector and the manifold. makes for a very easy fool proof install.

Originally posted by darien28
that's why I'm building my own turbo system... because kits are too $$$ and WAY overpriced.

i know there are progressive NO2 systems out there and I know that you can run multiple bottles n stuff. however, I was referring to the original post of running a 125shot dry system that only shot at WOT...

i just know that a turbo system can be had for not that much more than a NO2 system, and would much rather build a turbo for myself than run NO2.

I don't road race in excessive amounts, but I've had my chare of track time and autocrosses, and haven't seen any NO2 systems out there... but then again i never really waled around looking into the engine bays of other ppl's cars.

speaking of overpriced turbos and stuff... I was taking apart the dinan s/c from my recently bought M3... damn it's sooo simple. supercharger cost +$100 in parts sums up the entire kit... how lame... i can prolly piece together my own system and sell it for 3k while still earning a 100-150% profit margin.

No offense, but if you are building a turbo kit for N20 prices, you are out of your mind or are going to build a horrible system.

Do you know how much time goes into fabrication? Reasearch? Testing? I'll tell you its a whole lot more than buying a N20 kit, mounting a bottle, running a couple lines and wiring it up. You have to remember that your time is worth money. You SHOULD add that into your cost.

And as far as the Dinan kit goes, I hope you know that a Vortech unit costs well over $1k itself. Brackets aren't cheap to make. Pulleys aren't cheap to make. Intake piping isn't cheap to make. And do you have the tools to make software? Nope. I had a fab shop take my RMS kit and estimate some costs to re-produce it and it was no where as close to as cheap as you'd think.

Bottom line, Forced Induction systems are NEVER as cheap as you'd like to think. Just a warning to you since it seems like you are planning on jumping into a project that is guarenteed to cost at least twice as much as you are planning.... just ask others who have done it themselves here.

Originally posted by fast4d
the road course tracks don't allow nitrous.


I've seen nitrous cars at our local road course here. :dunno

I dont think thats a universal rule.

Originally posted by Spencer
I've seen nitrous cars at our local road course here. :dunno

I dont think thats a universal rule.

same here... iv seen them at the local auto cross and at our local road race track: mid america motorplex. :dunno