Well as I just found out that the US E30 M3 doesn't even get the dogleg shift pattern for it's gearbox it kinda got me wondering what would be quicker the Euro or the US one?

Yes i knew that the ratio's were different and the diffs to, but is one quicker than the other or are they both the same.
And if so what the point of the US one not getting the close ratio unit?
Both cars being stock I would have thought that the Euro spec would be quicker.
I have a 3.25:1 diff in my car and I can find the gear ratio's if someone out there can do that maths.

The list 0-62mph on my car is 6.9 sec and as far as I know the US one is 7.1 sec.
But the Euro did have a couple of little bit as standard that would give it a few more bhp as standard which is maybe why the 0-62 is .2 sec quicker.
The Euro airbox was standard, tow covers too which helped the airflow to the airbox, and no viscus fan on the water pump, only the electric one.

But hopefully someone will be able to shed some light on this for me.

Originally posted by M3Pilot
Well as I just found out that the US E30 M3 doesn't even get the dogleg shift pattern for it's gearbox it kinda got me wondering what would be quicker the Euro or the US one?

The list 0-62mph on my car is 6.9 sec and as far as I know the US one is 7.1 sec.


From my very unscientific research on the net, it seems that us Euro people get a better deal than the US people - I think we have less stringent emissions and safety laws :)

Dependant on what BHP m3 you have, quoted times I've seen are between 6.9 (200BHP), 6.6 (220BHP) and 6.2 (238BHP).

A mate of mine has an Audi S3 - one of his mates has an e30 M3 and reckons that his isn't as quick as it... (dunno what M3 it is though)

Whereabouts in London are you might have seen you driving round! ;)

Jon

Yes the US got totally shafted on the E30 M3, they only ever got one standard E30 M3, none of the special editions, Evo's or power increases that we got in Europe. Alot of the stuff that i got as standard on my car is classed as a mod in the US!!!As for me I'm actually in Essex not to far from Southend, but it's just easier to put London:laugh
So were abouts are you?

Originally posted by M3Pilot
Yes the US got totally shafted on the E30 M3, they only ever got one standard E30 M3, none of the special editions, Evo's or power increases that we got in Europe. Alot of the stuff that i got as standard on my car is classed as a mod in the US!!!As for me I'm actually in Essex not to far from Southend, but it's just easier to put London:laugh
So were abouts are you?

OK - I doubt I've seen your one around. I'm near Uxbridge (nr. Heathrow).

I see quite a few e30 M3's round here, but Birds is just down the road :)

I got mine from down that way Reading (indepentant Motor co)
So what do you drive Jon?

Originally posted by M3Pilot
I got mine from down that way Reading (indepentant Motor co)
So what do you drive Jon?

Oh yeah, I work down that way - I looked at their site a few times while I was looking for mine...

I've got an e36 325i, no major mods other than 16" e46 alloys and clear corners :)

I'm still saving - debating on whether or not to keep mine for a couple of years and put a SS exhaust / CAI / chip on it, or to leave it fairly stock and put the money towards an e36 m3 evo :)

Tough choice eh:), but I don't think you can go far wrong if you get an M3, just the up keep can be a killer, well on mine anyway:laugh

The differences between the two versions does give the edge to the euro. Because the US version gest less hp, they raised the rear gear to improve acceleration on the US version. The Getrag 5 speeds internal ratios with a 4.10 rear would have given the car a top end of about 120 mph or so. So, they hunted around for an off-the-shelf 5 speed whose internals would provide about the same overall performance as the Euro version with more power.

However, its all pretty academic to gearheads anyway. It is fairly easy to get back the power in the US version. It just costs money. Just getting the power back is fairly straightforward. Change the exhaust, intake, cats, and chip it. Probably a couple of thousand dollars, which is significant, if the deal is buying a used M3 for, say $15,000.

The Getrag-euro-style 5 speeds have always been a questionnable thing. The original theory is that the driver would spend more time in the upper 4 gears and just use first for getting started. So, having the upper gears in a conventional "H" made sense. However, here in the states, we can spend little time in 5th gear, so, the dogleg makes less sense and you do lose time shifting. Personally, I prefer the close ratio box with a 3.64 ring-and-pinion set with the gears in the US layout.

-Gordon

M3 Pilot, what color interior do you have?

Originally posted by gmonsen


The Getrag-euro-style 5 speeds have always been a questionnable thing. The original theory is that the driver would spend more time in the upper 4 gears and just use first for getting started. So, having the upper gears in a conventional "H" made sense. However, here in the states, we can spend little time in 5th gear, so, the dogleg makes less sense and you do lose time shifting. Personally, I prefer the close ratio box with a 3.64 ring-and-pinion set with the gears in the US layout.

-Gordon

I got to admit that it did take me a while getting used to the dogleg shift pattern, but I also had to get used to sitting on the other side of the car as we are RHD over here, which is two things that you guys in the US don't have get used to with the M3.
But now I'm used to the dogleg box I love it, the revs only drop about 750rpm with each gear so it keeps the S14 right in it's power band:D
But I would get very confussed for a while if I had to drive a US one without the same shift pattern, and the same for you guys if you drove a Euro spec one.

Bry : I have a black leather interoir and it is it exellent condtion , it looks like new which I very chuff with. Everyone asked were I got it re-trimmed , but I tell the that it's oringinal and they can't belive the condition that it's in Lucky me i guess.

Supersprints are great exhausts and I don't think on the M3 at least there as quiet as everyone thinks they are!

I agree, the US did get the shaft on M3's. I mean why do we get 192hp? The dogleg certainly does have gearing benefits, and the shift pattern is very easy once you're used to it. Plus it's one of those cool little mods that not many people have in the US :D

Yes, it is a cool little mod here. Someday I want to get a dogleg gearbox. I have to wait for now.

M3Pilot, your right, they can be loud, especially with straight pipes, or a euro resonator!

So i take it you only have the back box? I have the full system and which removed my cats at the same time :)

Originally posted by M3Pilot
So i take it you only have the back box? I have the full system and which removed my cats at the same time :)

Did it make much difference over stock (perf wise)?

Who did you get it from, and how much? :)

Yes I could tell the difference, as it did pulled much stronger at high revs for sure. sounds better too.
You should get about 5 bhp for removing the cats, plus what ever I got for the full system as well.
I am very happy with my Supersprint and would recommed them to anyone.

I don't understand the dogleg box layout. What's the std US layout and what's the standard Euro layout.

My e36 is R upper left, then in the center an H with 1-4, then 5th up to the right.

Originally posted by Russell328is
I don't understand the dogleg box layout. What's the std US layout and what's the standard Euro layout.

My e36 is R upper left, then in the center an H with 1-4, then 5th up to the right.

Normal layout is like an e36.

Dogleg is usually 1st where reverse is on an e36, 2nd is where first is, etc


1 *2 *4
|__|__|__
** |**|**|
** 3**5**R


The idea is that you don't really use first other than from a standstill, and you get quicker changes thru the rest of the box.

R could be up instead of down, not see an e30 box...

(you have no idea how hard it is to make this board space the above diagram properly :)

So for those of you who don't understand what a dogleg pattern shift is I shall draw it from you.
The reason behind it is that in racing you don't use 1st gear very much and the commom changes are 2nd to 3rd and 4th to 5th so these are in a straight lines so to minimize missing gears .
the pattern is like so

R.........2...4
-....+...+...+
......1...3...5 .



Hope this explains in to you, takes a little getting used to but it's second mnature to be now:)


Sorry about all the dots it's the only way i could get the numbers in the right place!

M3Pilot, isn't it odd to drive on the left side of the road, with a left-drive car (the steering wheel on the left)?

I like the dogleg pattern personally. The regular us version will have to do for now.

R 2 4

1 3 5

Yes it can make things a like aukward sometimes, like overtaking on single lane roads as you can see what coming the other way, L/H bends can be a little blind sometimes, and Drive throughs are fun as I have to get out the car to place my order and give them the money cos it's all set up for RHD cars over here
But i's doesn't take long to get used to you just have to be a little cautious sometimes:laugh

I don't know if you know but your shift pattern for a dogleg box is slightly out as reverse isn't infront of 1st as that could be quite expensive:laugh
it's back into neutral left then up, like a normal E30.
see the drawing in my message above:D

Hehe! :laugh

"I'm comming into the downshift from 3rd to 2nd. Whoops! Missed and hit reverse! There goes my trans!"

That would be terrible! Is there not anything in that gate then?

Originally posted by M3Pilot
other way, L/H bends can be a little blind sometimes, and Drive throughs are fun as I have to get out the car to place my order and give them the money cos it's all set up for RHD cars over here


Reverse through then ;)

Originally posted by JonUK


Reverse through then ;)

Thanks for the suggestion Jon:laugh

Bry there is a heavy spring action like in the nomal E30's that you have to push against to get it into reverseSo reverse in forward out od 1st into neutral, then you have to pull it left against the heavy spring action and then and the upwards (forward) into reverse.