lets hear it guys, anybody know which auto insurance companies are best for cars that serve double duty as street driven and track events?

What companies are HPDE friendly and which ones are a pain for track claims?

TIA!

From what I understand, you should be covered as long as the event you are participating is in fact "driving education" and NOT "racing".

The distinction of being considered a "racing event" is if the events are timed.

Read the fine print of your policy coverage. It should be in there.

See, here is the deal:

I recently moved from IL to GA, and I will be getting a new insurance agent so this would be the ideal opportunity to find the best insurance provider for HPDE driven street cars.

I currently have State Farm, and am confident they would cover me atleast once assuming it was not a timed event. I'm just looking for other options at this moment so I can price shop as well.

Insurance in georgia is just nuts!!! its double what I paid in Illinois :/

Basically don't ask, and don't tell them. If you search, insurance has come up many times. I'm looking at the samething, as my insurance is saying they won't cover an accident at the track, but my policy doesn't say that.

You may also consider having regular car insurance and adding track insurance.
I am considering adding track insurance from American Collectors Insurance that costs 1.5% of the agreed vehicle value. They have a deductible of 20% of the agreed value.
Depending how many events you do it doesn't come up to that much per event. I figure that my regular insurance will cover me but I will eventually pay a lot in higher insurance costs if I do wreck the car.
BMWCCA events here in Atlanta are averaging 5 wrecks per weekend ... so you are asking the right question.

Albert

Originally posted by comtal

BMWCCA events here in Atlanta are averaging 5 wrecks per weekend ... so you are asking the right question.
Albert

Wowzers! :eek:

Is it just a lot of over zealous drivers or the particular track?

5 per weekend seems very high to me.

OMG that's nuts!!!

maybe I'll just stay home for that event... naa!

I have seen cars wrecked and flipped at HPDE's, and I have only been to three! It's just a matter of time until your unlucky day strikes

Originally posted by Hornswoggler
It's just a matter of time until your unlucky day strikes

Not if you act like a sane person.

The # of idiots and stupid things at DE's has gone up tenfold in the last 2 years. I don't instruct anymore specifically for that reason. I'm tired of riding around with people who have no respect for the insane potential of their cars and no appreciation for what it takes to drive fast and safely. Everyone thinks they're a race car driver.

The large # of these morons is the reason insurance companies are no so scared of DE's.

I have a policy with American Collectors. I'm insured for $16,000 with a 20% deductable. They thing about American Collectors or any supplemental insurance is that it insulates you from your primary insurance company. If I get some minor damage I am not going to claim it on any insurance. If I have a total lose, I get a check for a little more than my car is worth. Who knows if American Collector will want to renew my policy, but my primary insurance company won't care since the are not paying out.

I do not believe the theory of if you can't afford to walk away from a lose, don't track it. If you drive sensibly, recognize red mist, know your limits. Keep your car in sound condition and leave your ego at the gate, risks are minimized. There is risk involved in a DE. The greatest risk is getting there. I feel very safe on the track. It's the Capital Beltway around DC that scare this crap out of me.

I'll be at VIR this weekend. :)

Originally posted by comtal

BMWCCA events here in Atlanta are averaging 5 wrecks per weekend ... so you are asking the right question.

Albert That is a whole nuther issue. Students or instructors?
I have seen instructors not scaling it back when conditions dictate. If students are balling up cars at that rate, I'd find another school! There is something seriously wrong. RA is a fast track but that is no excuse.

I agree, 5 wrecks a weekend is totally unacceptable!! Most of the schools I've been too have been incident free, with the exception of one school at Watkins Glen that claimed two 911 C4S'.

My car is my daily driver, so I'm never hanging it out at a track school, as I need it to get me home! I drive 7-8 tenths on the track because of that...

^^ Good philosophy. That's what I do. Even a non-timed driving school can be risky if you're driving at 10/10ths. Drive to the limit that you can afford. A good driving school should make all the necessary provisions to protect it's participants in the event that one needs to make an insurance claim. I know that NASA-VA event organizers are very strict about this, they don't allow anyone to spectate with a stopwatch timing even.

RA does claim alot of cars at BMWCCA schools, but the funny thing is that most tend to be in the advanced or instructor groups. I'd guess intermediate groups would have the most, but from what I've seen that's not the case.

The American Collectors insurance sounds like a really good deal to keep the "nerves" calm before the weekend. The only negative I can think of is something happening out on the track and the car being a total loss. I try to keep it at 7-8 tenths or so, where I can comfortably learn and still feel I'm not stupidly risking my car, myself, or my instructor. I've still had some "pucker moments" though, brake fade, someone in front of me braking hard over 300 feet from where I start my braking zone, guys that have no business doing late passes being tentative and then going for it way too late etc. There are risks in a school environment, and I feel a safe driver can only eliminate SOME of them. Drive long enough and eventually your number will come up, or you don't get enough seattime to ever see it happen. :)

At the risk of going off topic, when my instructor asks me what I want to do I want to work on this weekend, I tell him, drive my car to work on Monday!

I'll be attending my first DE at RA this month and have been wondering about insurance. I have State Farm, but I think I'll call American Collectors tomorrow and check them out.

I lost interest in American Collectors due to the 20% deductible. I recently put my car into the wall, and did about $4K worth of damage. Let's see - 20% of $20K, not much benefit. No matter, they don't write policies in SC anyway.

My Allstate agent told me I would NOT be covered, but then, I think he may have been covering his a$$.

1996 328ti has the right idea. Don't put it out there if you are not prepared to write it off. It took 14 years and 65 events, but my time DID come.

I would suggest asking this question on a more track-oriented forum Porsche/Ferrari/Viper etc. Many DE enthusiasts track and monitor this topic with a vengeance.

State Farm is recognized by most folks as the best, popular insurance company that covers collision damage sustained at pure Driver's Ed events at tracks....at least as of 2003. The event must be promoted as non-competitive, non-timed, non-points...purely instructional. This may or may not include Open Track days...this is a gray area, but I would assume they would not cover. Most BMW and Porsche marque DE events follow the proper format. Policies governing coverage can change at any moment, so this may be obsolete, bad opinion.

Erie has been known to pay claims for DE collision damage.

Allstate is the worst, period. They will not cover a minivan if it gets bumped driving around in a NASCAR event parking lot. If your vehicle is in a competitive track complex, sitting in a concours show and you get hail damage, better have a lawyer. They are total idiots. That said, they'll be at your door with a check if you total your car at 2AM while racing on the street drunk. Boy, talk about encouraging unsafe behavior. Allstate drivers have to do it on the street.:confused:

BMWCCA events here in Atlanta are averaging 5 wrecks per weekend ... so you are asking the right question.

Albert [/B]

The problem with RA is that there are a lot of walls, something about complying with an intl. racing body (LeMans race). I know my first few events there, I'll be at 50% or less.

Wow.

On the tracks I run DE's (in 100+ track days), I've heard about maybe 1 collision damage incident every 5 or 6 events. We're talking about maybe 500 cars running 300 mi each and 1 wreck. That's one wreck every 150,000 miles...better than than the average street motorist! Most of these wrecks are solo incidents into barrier with no personal injury, not two cars hitting each other.

DE's are much safer & lower risk than street racing.

well, i totaled my car last time at summit and Nationwide covered the whole thing. interestingly the operator asked if i wanted to have my car towed to the side of the road outside of the track but since i was taken by ambulance to a hospital and therefore there was a paper trail, i didn't risk it. i now have progressive, who probably won't pay out as easily.

1. i called around for track insurance and most work like the american collectors policy. its really only good for total wrecks..i think i got a quote of $400 per year...i may do it given that at those speeds you probably "total" more often that sustain minor damage.

2. 5 wrecks per event is crazy...i wouldn't attend that school..

3. my wreck happened after running twice in the intermediate group and was trying to reach solo status in intermediate...i went 10/10ths...and to date didn't have any incidents of losing control so when it finally happened i reacted poorly.

4. i'm going back out to see if i'm still interested in doing it..plan to drive 7/10ths or less in the novice group...but right now its supposed to rain so i may not go at all...

jeff

There's some good info here on DE's and insurance companies.

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=112417

Originally posted by m3bs


1996 328ti has the right idea. Don't put it out there if you are not prepared to write it off. It took 14 years and 65 events, but my time DID come.
No, I disagreed with that statement. I believe there are certain inherent risks but you can minimize them by driving within your limits, keeping you car well maintained and leaving your ego at the gate. Will I have a serious accident at the track? It's possible. More likely on the street though.

I agree. When I was a juvenile moron, I had quite a few close calls on the street. The average impromptu street racer inexperienced & trying to show off. They are often spurred by road rage & driving drunk with a car in marginal condition or overloaded with a bunch of passengers. Track cars are inspected and the driver is respectful & alert...not 2AM at night. During normal hours, the typical idiot loser on the street is daydreaming and talking on the cell phone or reading the morning paper in heavy traffic...just as dangerous.

In about 45K track miles, my tires have touched the grass twice...barely dropping off the track in harmless spots, due to brake fade and/or overdriving a corner....however you wanna look at it. I have never spun on-track (not even in the rain) & I've never come close to rubbing anyone or driving into gravel traps or impacting or touching barriers. I run midpack in A group in a totally stock car, yet I leave room for error and never run at ten tenths. "There's no need", as my father would say. You ain't even winning a $5 trophy in a DE, so why assume risk with no reward. I don't like to sweat or hold the wheel with a death grip...it's supposed to be fun. You can not learn under such pressure and stress, plus I'm not out to prove anything. My goal all along has been to learn to drive faster, smoother AND safer.

"Early braking" is why I didn't hit the wall when I lost a brake hose on the downhill "toe of the boot" going 90 MPH at Watkins Glen. I had time to take evasive action, pump brakes and change my corner attack angle. Someday a person "might" spin in front of me or a wheel bearing might let go in the wrong spot. Hardware failure is an unavoidable risk. I lay back in turns when approaching slower traffic, so I don't get collected if their driving errors cause them to spin. I know how & when to intercept and pass because I'm patient. My insurance company has been making money on me for most of the last 25 years & I expect this to continue. I have no plans to wreck my 540i.

Great link, binary.

It looks like the top choices are Amica, State Farm and Erie. Nationwide might work too. Since the Tracquest organizers like Amica, it's probably worth the closest look.

I am not aware of other companies that paid claims at DE's without protest, although they likely exist.

If you use your daily driver for track, supplemental track insurance to cover you at a couple events per year does not seem to be mandatory....yet. It's probably worth paying whatever it takes to get Amica or an equivalent, strong "single" track & street policy.

One thing that rings consistent in these insurance threads is that Sears is for robo grip pliers and Kenmore washers, not insurance. If you have Allstate, choose a $2K beater for DE's....or better yet, protest by switching to a company that does not hate what you enjoy.

I have USAA and was told that I was covered. Now that is for a 325 not a 332 ;)

Uh, 332TMS, you better check that again. Cause I have USAA too and they explicitly told me that I was NOT covered for ANY track event, regardless if it was a not timed, not competitive or a school...

I have USAA also, but my policy says i'm covered, the people at USAA say i'm not.

State Farm covered my DE accident without question, but I confirmed coverage for these events with my agent BEFORE I ever went. I suggest asking your agent and be sure to emphasize, and adhere to, that the event is not timed (do not get a transponder) and non competitive. I am VERY happy with the way State Farm handled my accident but I'm not to push my luck, so the new M shall remain track free.

Good luck!

USAA used to pay pretty easy. I think they are fighting it more of late. Last season was pretty rough on them. I mean, let's say you have USAA for 3 years. You pay $1200 a year, or $3600 total, then you wreck your $25,000 car. Well, even if they
drop you, they are still out $21,400.

----

Road Atlanta has 2 bad turns.

One is T3 and there abouts. If you overcook it, you are basically on downhill grass. Hello wall. No braking, no steering, just nice, smooth grass and a wall.

T7 is tough. You come up fast into a less than 90 degree turn. It's just an unatural turn. And the wall is right there. Overcook it here and you just snap into the wall.

These can be relatively small mistakes that just total your car.

I never maximize my speed down T12, or that would be a nasty wall where you would more than likely get some physical harm as well as some new dents.