This worked out great. Have a look:

e38 HID Retrofit w/City Lights. (http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=345799&page=7)

I went with a hella ballast and philips h1 rebased D2S bulbs from The Xenon Factory (http://www.xenonfactory.com). At the same time, I bypassed the wiring harness that came with the kit due to not wanting to hunt for a stout pos source two times when the wiring in the e38 is fine.

It's interesting to note that had I used the wiring harness, I very possibly would not have had a problem with the check lowbeams warning. I didn't because I wired city lights in parallel with the low beams and mounted them in the hole on the high beam side.

Thanks to .JAMES & Roy Cya for answering my questions, Eric W. for the fine chicken sandwich and letting me see where his ballast is mounted and Alex at the Xenon Factory (http://www.xenonfactory.com) for the fine kit.

Take care all!

Congratulations on your HID's. Are the lights pure white or do you have some color?

Also, if you bypassed the wiring harness that came with the kit, how did you hook it up? Where did you get the positive hook up? Also, you did not use the relay that came with the kit? Isn't that danderous? I am just asking I have no clue about electronics.

John

Congrats Jay!!!

I am certain you had a huge smile on your face once finished! I'm kinda glad you went for cleanliness of install rather than bother with the harness, etc. Looks good; we'll have to compare to OEM Xenons just for the hell of it.... :evil2

Enjoy!

Jay - I'm confused on what you did - did you alredy have HID and you added HID city lights which I'm presuming is another name for daytime driving lights? or did you add HID lighting to your non-HID setup?

Originally posted by johngoga
Congratulations on your HID's. Are the lights pure white or do you have some color?

Also, if you bypassed the wiring harness that came with the kit, how did you hook it up? Where did you get the positive hook up? Also, you did not use the relay that came with the kit? Isn't that danderous? I am just asking I have no clue about electronics.

John

To answer your questions:

I went with the 4100k kit which uses rebased philips D2S bulbs -- same as OEM.

Harness Background: The wiring harness isolates the 12 draw driving the ballast away from the lighting system and to it's own power source. The relay in the harness is the switch that kicks the ballast on. All the hookup to my headlight terminals do is swich the relay. This is ideal but I didn't want to have to wire the relay side's power source -- mainly the positive. It would have been a bunch of wiring under the hood.

So what I did was draw the pos and negs OUT of the lowbeam side, routed them directly to the ballast. The ballast gets the juice from the e38's H1 light terminals. See the picture below and focus on the two black wires going to the blue plug on the right:

http://members.roadfly.org/jayadam63/images/xenon_pic.jpg

NOT using the harness is OK if your cars electrical system can handle the startup load of the ignitor. After talking to a bunch of people (.JAMES, RoyCya, etc...) AND looking at a 2001 with Xenon's, I saw the factory did essentially what I did so I decided that this would be ok.

I think the harness moving the load off the factory lighting system is a great idea and is a nice touch for the kit developer to include it. It was very nice and the power terminal on the relay side had a inline automotive fuse and everything. I just didn't use it because I didn't want the headache of the extra wiring. Fabricated my own connectors so I didn't have to butcher the harness in the event I wish to use it in the future.

I hope this answers your questions.

Originally posted by F Johnny Klyde
Jay - I'm confused on what you did - did you alredy have HID and you added HID city lights which I'm presuming is another name for daytime driving lights? or did you add HID lighting to your non-HID setup?

F Johnny Klyde,

I did not have HID's -- Just ultra white halogens -- they call them Xenon's but they're not true HID xenons -- just ultra white halogens. I was never really happy with those so I decided to drop the bucks and get real HID's.

I added the glowing bulb to the high beam side. This is not daytime running lights or anything of the sort. It's very very dim and It's just acting as a resistor to close the circuit on the 12v side of the ballast so the car will think that the headlights are ok. See, the Hella ballast creates an open in the system when the headlights are off and the ballast isn't running. BMW thinks this is a burned out bulb. By wiring in a bulb in parallel on the 12v side of the ballast, I was able to make the car think that the circuit was close and everything was fine.

I could have paid the $ealer to set the program the computer for HID's and this would have also fixed this problem. I used the DIY method and for $4.99 including bulbs, no check lowbeam warning.

I hope this makes sense.

Originally posted by jayadam63
To answer your questions:

I went with the 4100k kit which uses rebased philips D2S bulbs -- same as OEM.

Harness Background: The wiring harness isolates the 12 draw driving the balast away from the lighting system and to it's own power source. The relay in the harness is the switch that kicks the ballast on. All the hookup to my headlight terminals do is swich the relay. This is ideal but I didn't want to have to wire the relay side's power source -- mainly the positive. It would have been a bunch of wiring under the hood.

So what I did was draw the pos and negs OUT of the lowbeam side, routed them directly to the ballast. The ballast gets the juice from the e38's H1 light terminals. See the picture below and focus on the two black wires going to the blue plug on the right:



http://members.roadfly.org/jayadam63/images/xenon_pic.jpg

NOT using the harness is OK if your cars electrical system can handle the startup load of the ignitor. After talking to a bunch of people (.JAMES, RoyCya, etc...) AND looking at a 2001 with Xenon's, I saw the factory did essentially what I did so I decided that this would be ok.

I think the harness moving the load off the factory lighting system is a great idea and is a nice touch for the kit developer to include it. It was very nice and the power terminal on the relay side had a inline automotive fuse and everything.

I hope this answers your questions.

I had no idea you could do that.:dunno

I did mine with all the harness and hooked it up directly to the positive with the relay and all, I was under the impression that you have to use the relay because of the power it drains when they first fire up and thought might do damage to the wiring.

John

Jay,

Great job on the install! Just make sure that the light output is properly focused through the projector with the H1 HID bulbs seated as they are.

Even when they are seated as they should, I have found that they don't always provide the correct focus.

At night, remove the back cover, unclip the retainer, and move the bulb around while it is on. Back and forth, and wiggle up/down, side/side also. You might find that better illumination can be achieved if you shim the base a bit somewhere.

H1 HIDs are "retrofits", such that, the bulb may not be sitting pefectly in the base. There will be those that claim this only happens in "cheap" kits. I've seen different.

Best,
JAMES.



John:

Originally posted by johngoga
Also, if you bypassed the wiring harness that came with the kit, how did you hook it up? Where did you get the positive hook up? Also, you did not use the relay that came with the kit? Isn't that danderous? I am just asking I have no clue about electronics.

John

:evil2 :evil2 :evil2

"...no clue about electronics" huh?

:evil2 :evil2 :evil2

I have to ask, what about the claims made here?

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum//showthread.php?postid=1709004#post1709004

And here?

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum//showthread.php?postid=1712009#post1712009

:evil2 :evil2 :evil2

JAMES. :confused:

Originally posted by JAMES.
Jay,

Great job on the install! Just make sure that the light output is properly focused through the projector with the H1 HID bulbs seated as they are.

Even when they are seated as they should, I have found that they don't always provide the correct focus.

At night, remove the back cover, unclip the retainer, and move the bulb around while it is on. Back and forth, and wiggle up/down, side/side also. You might find that better illumination can be achieved if you shim the base a bit somewhere.

H1 HIDs are "retrofits", such that, the bulb may not be sitting pefectly in the base. There will be those that claim this only happens in "cheap" kits. I've seen different.

Best,
JAMES.



John:



:evil2 :evil2 :evil2

"...no clue about electronics" huh?

:evil2 :evil2 :evil2

I have to ask, what about the claims made here?

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum//showthread.php?postid=1709004#post1709004

And here?

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum//showthread.php?postid=1712009#post1712009

:evil2 :evil2 :evil2

JAMES. :confused:

I am learning as I go, is that ok with you James?

By the way, you keep mentioning the H1 HID bulbs seated incorrectly, what are you talking about? Those bulbs only fit in one way, and there's no way you can move them around.


John

Originally posted by johngoga
I had no idea you could do that.:dunno

I did mine with all the harness and hooked it up directly to the positive with the relay and all, I was under the impression that you have to use the relay because of the power it drains when they first fire up and thought might do damage to the wiring.

John

I wasn't sure either. I figured something was up when I saw the factory Hella ballast was drawing power straight from the headlight assembly. Then I corresponded with deepak manuel (http://www3.sympatico.ca/deepak/cars/hidfaq.htm) who sells factory hella ballasts and D2S bulbs and he said that the hella ballasts can draw current directly from the headlight terminal in most of the installations he's seen. He said that the relay probably would have helped to avoid the check lowbeam failure because it may have closed the circuit.

Interesting Stuff, aye?

If I had to do it over again knowing what I know now, I'd get the projector, hella ballast and D2S bulbs from deepak manuel instead of the kit. This way, I would not be trapped into having proprietary H1 rebased D2S bulbs. But the kit served the purpose of helping me to learn and get my feet wet.....

Next time -- :eyes1

I cannot find where Deepak Manuel sells HID projectors. I am thinking that these would be needed so that the OEM Philips H2S bulbs will fit in lieu of the H1 base. In other words, I would need to buy (proprietary) H2S bulbs rebased to the H1 format unless I buy OEM HID projectors. Where can I find the OEM projectors?

John,

I think James is talking about "re-based" D2S bulbs. They might not have been put back together 100% correct as OEMs are. Also, all projectors, housings, and assemblies are NOT created equal! Remember, Jay is going from Halogen to HID.

Jay,

I would've done it the other way as well, if I didn't get such a great deal on the complete assemblies...

Way to go Dude!

Originally posted by Roy Cya
John,

I think James is talking about "re-based" D2S bulbs. They might not have been put back together 100% correct as OEMs are. Also, all projectors, housings, and assemblies are NOT created equal! Remember, Jay is going from Halogen to HID.


That's 100% correct. I am lucky, though, because these rebased bulbs are really nice. They fit perfectly and seem to be true. I highly recommend this kit.

I'll play with moving them (as .JAMES suggests) to see what difference it may make but they seem to be nicely crafted and you wouldn't know they didn't come from the factory.

Thanks for answering the questions over the weekend dudes!

Seems to me that buying ballasts and H1 modified D2S Phillips bulbs would be cheaper than buying the kit...I put together a comparison cost of about $325.00 vs $495.00 (Xenon Factory kit).

I would be interested in buying the OEM projector so that unmodified D2S bulbs could be used if only I could find a source.

Jay,

be careful when handling those things, there is a lot of current going through them!!!:electric- Wear a glove or something...

Laita,

Originally posted by DavidF
Seems to me that buying ballasts and H1 modified D2S Phillips bulbs would be cheaper than buying the kit...I put together a comparison cost of about $325.00 vs $495.00 (Xenon Factory kit).

I would be interested in buying the OEM projector so that unmodified D2S bulbs could be used if only I could find a source.

Please tell (show) me where you can get two philips / hella ballasts and two genuine philips H1 REBASED D2S bulbs for $325.00. I'd like to see for myself because I couldn't find something that was substantially cheaper. Only slightly. Now I could have gotten cheaper Korean or Japanse bulbs / ballasts but didn't want to.....

You are right, my bad. My scenario was with cheaper bulbs, not Philips rebased D2S's. I came up with the pricing as follows:

Go here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2985522794&category=20924 $225.00

Then here: http://www.globalpremier.com/HIDreplacementbulb6000kgp.html $85.00

and finally here: http://www.globalpremier.com/connectingjacksinstruction.html $18.00

Total for "kit": $328.00


The big difference with the Xenon Factory kit is the bulb manufacturer. I am sure the Xenon Factory bulb is better quality, but much more expensive at about $130.00/bulb! If a customized Philips bulb is important, then the Xenon Factory kit is indeed a good buy.

Originally posted by DavidF
You are right, my bad. My scenario was with cheaper bulbs, not Philips rebased D2S's. I came up with the pricing as follows:

Go here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2985522794&category=20924 $225.00

Then here: http://www.globalpremier.com/HIDreplacementbulb6000kgp.html $85.00

and finally here: http://www.globalpremier.com/connectingjacksinstruction.html $18.00

Total for "kit": $328.00


The big difference with the Xenon Factory kit is the bulb manufacturer. I am sure the Xenon Factory bulb is better quality, but much more expensive at about $130.00/bulb! If a customized Philips bulb is important, then the Xenon Factory kit is indeed a good buy.


I saw that exact combo and considered it. Then I went on a rampage trying to find the D2S philips bulb rebased H1 format for the same price as global premier. No luck, no how no way.

You said that you could match it above so that's why I challenged you to show me. I thought I missed something there. I appreciate you going back and checking again.

Thanks!

Well the next obvious question to me is can the H1 factory projector be modified to fit the unmodified D2S bulb? Anyone?

Nope, I tried that a few times without success. The bases don't line up and if you've looked at a D2S bulb up close you'll know that they have a very specific fastening pattern, plus there are those black rings that tighten them to the projector... Even the projectors are different from assembly to assembly... This means that you can not make it fit without doing some irreparable damage to your current assembly.

My 0.02 cents....

That what I guessed.

That's why I figured it was either to go H1 rebased or change the projector.

For my first HID project I took the simpler / safer route.

I'd do the projector transplant attempt the next time so I'd have native D2S bulbs......

BTW -- The polarity going into the hella ballast does not matter according to Alex at Xenon Factory. I didn't chance it though and I matched the harness I was making with the blue plug (9006 female connector) to that of the same blue plug in the supplied harness.....

Oh -- Much better avatar -- now I can go back to browsing bimmerforums at work w/o worry.

So, where can I buy replacement projectors?

Jay,

Great post!!

Thank you for taking the time to document your work. I usually plan to take pics and do a write up on my mods but then I get so involved in the project....well you know the rest.

I will be doing my HID upgrade this week, (5000k along w/ DDE lighting) so your post could not have come at a better time. This is what makes these forums great. Keep up the great work everyone! :clap:

Originally posted by Great Shark
Jay,

Great post!!

Thank you for taking the time to document your work. I usually plan to take pics and do a write up on my mods but then I get so involved in the project....well you know the rest.

I will be doing my HID upgrade this week, (5000k along w/ DDE lighting) so your post could not have come at a better time. This is what makes these forums great. Keep up the great work everyone! :clap:

Thanks. I could have done a better job with taking pics of the interior wiring. I can still do that simply by popping of the back cover to the lowbeam light on the driver's side and snapping some fotos....

Maybe this weekend.

Good luck on your project!!!!

Pictures are good. :D

Post on your cardomain site and watch the hits really pile up. I know a lot of us are planning to do this upgrade. It is relatively cheap and the difference between HID and Halogen is...well...night and day. :eyesscan

So Jay, still the question. Do you know where one can buy replacement projectors that accept the unmodified D2S xenon lamp? I am interested in doing the conversion, but am concerned as you about being stuck with proprietary H1 rebased lamps.

Originally posted by DavidF
So Jay, still the question. Do you know where one can buy replacement projectors that accept the unmodified D2S xenon lamp? I am interested in doing the conversion, but am concerned as you about being stuck with proprietary H1 rebased lamps.

No Dave, I don't. Did you try emailing deepak manuel?

Maybe he can find them for ya....

BTW -- If you find them, please post back here and share the information. I'm sure we'd all like to know for future reference.

Thanks Dave.

Originally posted by JAMES.
Jay,

Great job on the install! Just make sure that the light output is properly focused through the projector with the H1 HID bulbs seated as they are.

Even when they are seated as they should, I have found that they don't always provide the correct focus.

At night, remove the back cover, unclip the retainer, and move the bulb around while it is on. Back and forth, and wiggle up/down, side/side also. You might find that better illumination can be achieved if you shim the base a bit somewhere.

H1 HIDs are "retrofits", such that, the bulb may not be sitting pefectly in the base. There will be those that claim this only happens in "cheap" kits. I've seen different.

Best,
JAMES.



James,

I noticed that the passenger side light significantly less bright than the driver's side. Both are evenly adjusted with a nice clean cutoff. Does your suggestion above address the differences in brightness? Is the bulb internally too far behind the cutoff shield inside the projector? If I do play with it, what would you suggest I shim the base with?

Thanks James.

Jay,

If both sides are focused the same, with the same sharp cutoff, sharp focus, relative focal point, and beam patterns, we must assume that they are correctly seated and the arc area of the capsule is in the correct relative rotation to the projector housing and cutoff shield.

(With the bulb out, look at the H1 projector where the bulb's base seats; you'll see several metal tabs that can be bent to act as shims. Just in case you need it.)

Again, assuming that the bulbs are correctly seated (as good as an H1 HID retrofit can be):

1) Swap the bulbs side-to-side and see if the variation follows the bulbs. I have seen HID bulbs' brightness vary, especially in rebased applications. If the variation follows the bulbs, exchange the dim one and this should solve your problem. There is a small break in period where the color temperature and brightness is not consistent.

2) If the brightness variation does not follow the bulb, take a look at the surface of the projector lens, inside and out. I have seen a filmy deposit on the lens where it can affect the light intensity.

3) I know this is a lot of work but swap the ballasts from side-to-side; this would scientifically eliminate the ballasts as the possible cause.

This is what I can think of for now; I'm sure there is more knocking around in my head. Let me know if you need more help.

Good luck,
JAMES.

Hey James -- Thanks for taking the time to make the suggestions!!!

Originally posted by JAMES.
Jay,

If both sides are focused the same, with the same sharp cutoff, sharp focus, relative focal point, and beam patterns, we must assume that they are correctly seated and the arc area of the capsule is in the correct relative rotation to the projector housing and cutoff shield.



I can't assume any of the above other than the cutoffs are identical when viewed on my garage. Although they are the same height with the same cutoff property, the driver's side seems to have a more solid beam shooting forward (focus?). Can tweaking the angle of the base slightly change this brightness / solid beam property I'm referring to?



1) Swap the bulbs side-to-side and see if the variation follows the bulbs. I have seen HID bulbs' brightness vary, especially in rebased applications. If the variation follows the bulbs, exchange the dim one and this should solve your problem. There is a small break in period where the color temperature and brightness is not consistent.



Regarding the break in period & swap -- Alex at the Xenon Factory said I can replace the dimmer one now but I should wait (I have a 3 year warranty) 100 hours of burn time to see if they even out automatically. He also suggested swapping sides to see what I have on my hands as it relates to causation.

I'll tackle this over the weekend. I'm really curious to see if the variation is caused by variances in the optics of the projectors or differences in the lamps.

Take Care James & thanks again!

Hey guys,

I'm going to jump back into this discussion again.

I finished my H1 HID install Saturday night at 2am. (I guess that makes it Sunday morning- details...) Anyway I had to fly off to London later in the day on Sunday and never gave the lights a test. I just returned home this evening and drove with the "new" lights in this stormy California weather. I was not impressed with the light output. I am not sure if this was due to the weather or improper bulb seating. I have a nice sharp cutoff and the beams appear equal in intensity. I guess I will need to play with them, and thus my question...... James, you mention moving the bulb seating around but I am a bit nervous about touching the bases due to the high voltage. I can handle a few 12v jolts :chix but don't these lights have more juice running to them? And how will I know for sure that they are properly focused? Is there a method of measuring the accuracy of the beam or do I just "eyeball" it? Could I take the car to a "headlight aimimg" shop (if there is such a place) and have them aim the lights with a machine and save myself lots of time? Any thoughts would be apreciated. Thanks!

Ps. Jay, thanks again for your write up and pictures, they helped me a lot in figuring out my install!!

Originally posted by Great Shark
I can handle a few 12v jolts :chix but don't these lights have more juice running to them?

They are certified to have 14 million jiggaawwatts. :chix

I want the same information you do before I go tweek them. But I might risk it w/some non-conductive hand covering.

Jay,

Can tweaking the angle of the base slightly change this brightness / solid beam property I'm referring to?

Yes, it can definitely change the "solid beam" property and thus the perceived brightness. Failure to achieve the proper focal point can decrease light output.

100 hours of burn time to see if they even out automatically

In consideration of how and why a bulb breaks in, 100 hours, in my opinion, is a bit long. In 30 hours, if you don't see a change, I would replace the offending bulb.

Great Shark,

Indeed, the secondary side is high voltage. In general, 18-25K volts is used to strike the arc and ~90 volts to maintain the arc. While the voltage may be high, the current is low. It will hurt, but most likely not kill you.

Wear a rubber glove and only use one hand as a precaution. If the wiring is good, you have nothing to worry about.

Cutoff and focus are two different things. A sharp cutoff simply means the relative rotation of the capsule is correct (in general). As you move the bulb around, in the manner I described in previous posts, you will see variations in light pattern. When you have it about right, you should know it. Eyeballing was surprisingly effective for me.

Best of luck guys,
JAMES.

Try these site for helpful information for...

Aiming: http://faq.auto.light.tripod.com/hl-aiming.htm

Focus: http://faq.auto.light.tripod.com/projector-unit.htm

General info: http://faq.auto.light.tripod.com/headlamp-faq.htm

Thanks James for the insight and & David for the links. Good stuff.

I'll start tweaking the bulbs tonight.

This is my only remaining dissatisfaction with the whole thing -- the biggest improvement was painting the diffusion lens around the projector. What a difference that was. Now I have fish eyes for headlights!

Thanks again!!!

Oh -- I asked this and it may have been answered but does anyone have a source for the inner plastic lenses?

Gracias.

What a great thread!!!

Thanks fellas!!!

Cheers

JOHN

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: