...Sigh
I was on the receiving end of a reality check of biblical proportions yesterday.

I pulled up behind a nice looking 98-ish Honda Prelude at a light. This was at an intersection leading onto 6th Ave. from Golden toward Downtown Denver. I was admiring his car, when I noticed an aftermarket exhaust, and a license plate holder that read AEM Performance products. ( V-TEC) on the trunk as well). The car was sharp. :)

Before the light changed, I wondered if he was going to take off, and I was in a tough spot. If I launched hard, I would more than likely end up in his trunk. If I launched cautiously, and waited for him to make the move, he would get the jump on me. I decided to be cautious, and chose the latter of the two. (In retrospect, I had little worry of ending up in his trunk).

The light changed, and sure enough, he was on it. I followed suit, and figured I would be around this guy in pretty short order. I remember thinking how quiet the car was for having such a huge outlet on the pipe. I hit second, the tires broke loose, and I was reeling him in a bit so I changed lanes to go around him.

Yeah, right...

NOTHING!

At this point, to the best of my memory (and a painful one at that) was he was neither pulling me, nor I gaining on him. I hit third and nailed it, and nothing changed! At about 80-ish we both let off for traffic, and then there it was...


THE HAZZARD FLASH!

I REALLY could have done without that! I wanted to have another shot, this time with a more level playing field, but he gave me the thumbs up and made a quick exit.

Cool guy, beautiful car, I can't tell you what the rest of it looked like, since I saw nothing other than taillights.

It is a bit confusing. I think that those cars stock have approx. 195 hp. Stock for stock, thats a deficit of 45 hp, although the Prelude is around 175 lbs. lighter.

My car is a 95 M3 that I purchased from a guy in NYC. The interesting thing about the car is that the guy said that it was an AC Schnitzer M3, and that it had an additional 12k worth of stuff on top of the original cost of the car. Initially I dismissed it as the ramblings of someone who wanted to sell their car, and since the price was competitive with other M3's at the time, I really didn't care. He told me the car had engine mods as well. Again, I was indifferent. The car is strange though. My title says that it is a '95. Actually on the registration it said M3 S. After I bought a bunch of stuff for it that either didn't fit or didn't work, I took it back to the dealer, and they said it didn't work because it is a '96. It is almost as though it is a car made from two seperate years.

A couple of years ago, I missed a 3-4 shift hitting second gear, and mangled my valves. I told the shop while they had it apart, to do whatever mods would gain some HP from the head. (cleaning up the ports, etc) They called me back, and said that that had already been done, so they just did some kind of valve, valve seat grind.

My car as far as the motor is concerned, has head work, a K&N filter, (it is clean), AC Shnitzer cat back exhaust, and an Autothority chip. From what I have heard, the chip is not that great. The other thing is my CEL is on. Who knows, maybe the check engine light caused a person to lose a HP or two. Regardless, I got the smackdown from a Prelude... :(

dont worry you would of had him in the twistys

Thanks Eric!
I checked the code for my Check Engine Light, and it is indicating a bad oxygen sensor. Maybe it is a bit down on power because of that. I'm hoping that is a possibility...

Maybe you don't have kittens in the pipe.

Unless that Prelude was heavily modded, you should've whooped his butt. Get your car checked out, something's fishy.

dont worry you would of had him in the twistys

Doubt it. If the Prelude guy put money into the motor he also probably put some into the suspension.

Your comment however is funny. :) It's the normal response on the Honda boards when Camaro's beat them.

maybe the prelude was upgraded?

Well, he would have had his work cut out for him in "the twities." When I purchased the car, it had H&R springs. Not sure what the struts/shocks were. Now it has M3 LTW springs, and Koni Sport adjustables. The car is dialed in pretty well.

I think tomorrow, I will see if I can take it for a dyno run. I suspect that the chip is detractive. MANY people have said that with my particular chip, there is actually a decrease in HP. Autothority is not proud of that Version 1 chip either. Compound that with a bad oxygen sensor, and it all starts to make a little more sense.

Does anyone have any experience has to actual HP loses contributed to a bad O2 sensor? (If any at all?)

If the outlet was huge, and the car was quiet, my money's on it being turbo'd.

How does turbo make a car quiet?.....

It does, you don't get a lot of exhaust sound from most turbo cars, mainly just whooshing noise like a damn jet or something when you listen to them from behind.

I believe the 97-01 5 speed had 200 HP and the auto had 195 HP. I owned a 99 5 speed. I had a highway run with an E36 M3. I was alone and I think he had two passengers. He walked me pretty good from a roll on from 75 to about 115. I think the only way he beat could beat you is with SC or turbo.

a turbocharger muffles the sound of cars. given the same catback exhaust and midpipe, a turbo car will be quieter, usually.

Originally posted by ///MEric
dont worry you would of had him in the twistys :nono Preludes are one of the best handling automobiles out there.

Originally posted by CtheM3go


Does anyone have any experience has to actual HP loses contributed to a bad O2 sensor? (If any at all?)

I don't know for O2 sensors alone, but from a tune up, oil change, and O2 sensors I could feel the car run much smoother. So maybe 10hp max for all 3.

a lot of guys are running gen 4 preludes with h22a's which makes for a low to mid 14 1/4 with a good driver

Originally posted by iDefi
:nono Preludes are one of the best handling automobiles out there.


You're kidding, right?

Originally posted by iDefi
:nono Preludes are one of the best handling automobiles out there. :rofl:

wow. i owned a prelude in my 325ci, this guy that works at a chinese restaurant next to my restaurant pulled up next to me when i was goin home from work.
On kipling in between Quincy and Belleview(my parent's own Bandido's if ur familiar). at first i didn't think he wanted to go because he just got next to me and kept going, than he downshifted, as did i and i walked on him slowly but surely.

CtheM3go you need to post in the regional forums!!

Originally posted by E46325Ci
wow. i owned a prelude in my 325ci, this guy that works at a chinese restaurant next to my restaurant pulled up next to me when i was goin home from work.
On kipling in between Quincy and Belleview(my parent's own Bandido's if ur familiar). at first i didn't think he wanted to go because he just got next to me and kept going, than he downshifted, as did i and i walked on him slowly but surely.

CtheM3go you need to post in the regional forums!! was this before you blew your engine :D


And Seth wasn't kidding, 5th gen 'ludes are very, very good handling cars, they'd whomp on a stock E36 or E46 3er.

Originally posted by PasadenaE36
was this before you blew your engine :D


And Seth wasn't kidding, 5th gen 'ludes are very, very good handling cars, they'd whomp on a stock E36 or E46 3er.

I guess the Preludes ive run into in the twisties, have had balls the size of beans :az:

Dont worry, think of this race as a dose of reality. You cant win them all, there are more fast hondas than you would think.

either it was turbo'd or supercharged.

there's quite a few supercharged hondas out there. a supercharged 5th gen prelude would walk an E36 M3 all day long.

then the real question is, would a SC m3, walk a SC honda? i mean it always seems to come down to mods...

who has more mods wins...

so why say a honda with some nos and triple turbos would walk my stock m3? uhhh duh??

Originally posted by CtheM3go
You're kidding, right? definately not.

I had straight piped my RX7-TT FD to an Apexi melon shooter and you could hear that thing for days. the Miata was the same, the turbos really didn't quiet it down at all, not with aftermarket exhausts at least.

Since you're up in the altitude, your car doesn't have all the hp is it supposed to put. However, FI cars do much better in the altitude. The Prelude could have been turbo's or had NOS.

Originally posted by morsexy
then the real question is, would a SC m3, walk a SC honda? i mean it always seems to come down to mods...

who has more mods wins...

so why say a honda with some nos and triple turbos would walk my stock m3? uhhh duh??

SCed M3 vs SCed Honda...from my experience it depends on what kind of race and what kind of honda. From a deadstop, the SCed M3 will get the lead but by 3rd gear, the SCed S2000 will pass it. Now from a roll, the SCed S2000 will walk the SCed M3. Just so there's no confusion, my SCed S2000 has run with a BPU Supra that runs 12.7@112MPH on the freeway and has been able to hang with it.

Originally posted by 97_SC_///M3
SCed M3 vs SCed Honda...from my experience it depends on what kind of race and what kind of honda. From a deadstop, the SCed M3 will get the lead but by 3rd gear, the SCed S2000 will pass it. Now from a roll, the SCed S2000 will walk the SCed M3. Just so there's no confusion, my SCed S2000 has run with a BPU Supra that runs 12.7@112MPH on the freeway and has been able to hang with it.

Any pics?

Originally posted by kiley_sean
Any pics?

How do I post pics on this forum?

Hope the pics show up.

Dirty M3 engine... :D

Dirty S2000 engine... :D

Sorry for all the huge pics...

Last pics of the two cars.

Very sweet S2000 there. I love those things more and more everytime I see one, especially one under the influence of F/I!

Do they make any aftermarket hardtop kits for the s2000? If I ever decide to buy a non-bmw car for myself, it will be a used S2000. What a well put together car that is.

Thanks for the pics. :clap:

Originally posted by kiley_sean
Very sweet S2000 there. I love those things more and more everytime I see one, especially one under the influence of F/I!

Do they make any aftermarket hardtop kits for the s2000? If I ever decide to buy a non-bmw car for myself, it will be a used S2000. What a well put together car that is.

Thanks for the pics. :clap:

Honda has an OEM hardtop, but it's priced around $2000+ and it comes painted to match. There are a few aftermarket companies that carry hardtops and they are pretty pricey as well and some of are carbon fiber hard tops :buttrock

You got jacked on the performance valve grind, might want to call the BBB

Originally posted by CtheM3go




I remember thinking how quiet the car was for having such a huge outlet on the pipe.



That why you lost, you didn't have the 100HP fart can like his car. :eek:

First rule: ALWAYS get a bigger fart can then your competitor:alright

Originally posted by iDefi
:nono Preludes are one of the best handling automobiles out there.

Yes, they are...for cars under $30K. The Type SH won that title. Don't believe it......but it's the truth..

Yeah, if he had Stage 3 cams, SMSP header, intake, exhaust he should be right there with an E36 M3. Hell, a dude with a 92 Prelude with a stock internal JDM H22 swap....intake, header, and exhaust runs CONSISTENT 13.7's. He is legit because someone challenged him to see if he was telling the truth. He was.

The H22 is a really good motor.

I am going to the National Prelude Meet this June...and am taking quite a few guys from here out there too. They will see what Preludes car really do. It just sux that our cars weigh so much. :bawl

I hope to be there soon. :D

SCed M3 vs SCed Honda...from my experience it depends on what kind of race and what kind of honda. From a deadstop, the SCed M3 will get the lead but by 3rd gear, the SCed S2000 will pass it. Now from a roll, the SCed S2000 will walk the SCed M3. Just so there's no confusion, my SCed S2000 has run with a BPU Supra that runs 12.7@112MPH on the freeway and has been able to hang with it.

Alright, how do you figure a SC S2000 will walk a SCed M3? I have seen the numbers on e36 M3s and on S2000s- And from what I have heard and seen, the M3 has it. I have also seen several races between the two cars, the e36 always taking the win. My friend (races at VIR) has a lightly modified S2000, and has raced my friends bone stock 99 M3- from 0-110 the M3 takes it every time. I have also driven an S2000, they are really nice cars, but seriously have a lack of torque. All I am saying is I highly doubt that a SCd S2000 will "WALK" an SCd e36 M3

now....if you were comparing an e46 m3 such as a...2001 s/ced m3 to your 2001 s/ced s2000...the m3 would destroy the s2000

You cannot compare a Honda to ANY BMW. The S2000 is respectfully Honda's flagship "sports" car. With all 240 of its horses generated out of its governed RPM band (8300 RPM's to be precise). While it's torque is set to the tune of 85 ft./lbs. less than the M3 and at a comparable RPM level to the horsepower band. The M3 generates all of its power 2300 RPM's before the S2000 and it has more torque across the entire RPM band. The S2000 may be lighter but the torque and band differences decrease its overall performance because it is set so high in a car that was meant to be driven everyday. As the M3 is the same everyday driver's car it has a lower and more efficient stock power range and allows for more power and torque with it's larger and more developed inline 6 (3.2L). The S2000 is Honda's replacement for its already anemic Del Sol. No offense intended just thought it might help if someone told you to do your homework on the stock specs and not a modded car. Modded cars are meant for track not the street unless its a classic Camaro or other muscle car. The occasional truck withheld.

Originally posted by cdriley
Alright, how do you figure a SC S2000 will walk a SCed M3? I have seen the numbers on e36 M3s and on S2000s- And from what I have heard and seen, the M3 has it. I have also seen several races between the two cars, the e36 always taking the win. My friend (races at VIR) has a lightly modified S2000, and has raced my friends bone stock 99 M3- from 0-110 the M3 takes it every time. I have also driven an S2000, they are really nice cars, but seriously have a lack of torque. All I am saying is I highly doubt that a SCd S2000 will "WALK" an SCd e36 M3

I know because I own both of those two car and they are both SCed. My brother and I have traded of driving both cars. That's how I know that that M3 will take the S in the launch and the S will walk the M in on a roll.

Originally posted by uberslow325xi
now....if you were comparing an e46 m3 such as a...2001 s/ced m3 to your 2001 s/ced s2000...the m3 would destroy the s2000

Not the same cars we are talking about here. I could say the same and say how about you put that SCed E46 M3 against a turbo charged S2000 and say the M3 will get walked?

how far and how silly will this get from here....?

Originally posted by cdriley
You cannot compare a Honda to ANY BMW. The S2000 is respectfully Honda's flagship "sports" car. With all 240 of its horses generated out of its governed RPM band (8300 RPM's to be precise). While it's torque is set to the tune of 85 ft./lbs. less than the M3 and at a comparable RPM level to the horsepower band. The M3 generates all of its power 2300 RPM's before the S2000 and it has more torque across the entire RPM band. The S2000 may be lighter but the torque and band differences decrease its overall performance because it is set so high in a car that was meant to be driven everyday. As the M3 is the same everyday driver's car it has a lower and more efficient stock power range and allows for more power and torque with it's larger and more developed inline 6 (3.2L). The S2000 is Honda's replacement for its already anemic Del Sol. No offense intended just thought it might help if someone told you to do your homework on the stock specs and not a modded car. Modded cars are meant for track not the street unless its a classic Camaro or other muscle car. The occasional truck withheld.

As much as I love my M3, I give respect where it's due whether it's an S2000 or another car. I own both cars and I do know for a fact what each car will do, stock for stock or modded for modded. I'm sorry most BMW owners can't accept the fact that their cars can be beat. I love meeting guys on the road when I drive my S2000 and they believe because I drive a S2000 with such "low torque" that they will walk me, until they see my taillights. I love the excuse most folks give when they talk about the S2000...."no torque" excuse.

I love both cars equally and again I'm just speaking from personal experience. :)

Originally posted by SilverStreak
how far and how silly will this get from here....?

Only speaking from what I know and have experience... :)

ok...so turbocharge the 2001 m3...and turbocharge the 2001 s2000... and the m3 will kick the s2000s ass

this is what i meant.

if i mod this car and you mod that car and.... :rolleyes:

enough, please....

Originally posted by uberslow325xi
ok...so turbocharge the 2001 m3...and turbocharge the 2001 s2000... and the m3 will kick the s2000s ass

Show me a reliable running turbo E46 M3???

Originally posted by SilverStreak
this is what i meant.

if i mod this car and you mod that car and.... :rolleyes:

enough, please....

Agreed, you should just lock the thread. It's never going to end.

bring it back to the world of reality, or i'm shutting it down...

Originally posted by 97_SC_///M3
Agreed, you should just lock the thread. It's never going to end.

done