Just curious which one performs better. Neightbor just got a Z4. Don't know if I should set him straight for talking $hit, cause I know he got his because I got an MC 1st. So I want to know, will I smoke him, beat him, or will it be the other way around. Also they are 3.0L, right?







Juker008

So long as you can hold your own as far as driving skill go, you will hand him his ass. Not by much, but you will take him.

Good thats what I wanted to hear. Although he too has many more years experence, and he can drive.

If driving skills are 50/50 would the MC be faster?







Juker008

the s52 m coupe, drivers being equal, should edge out the z4 3.0 in a straight line contest. weights are similar, but the m coupe has a slight edge in hp, and more aggressive gearing...

Depends where. ¼ mile? Auto-cross? I'd say the superior Z4 suspension would give it an edge in the twisties. But if it's a beauty contest, the MC wins... :D

hugos trying to be nice. The z4 isnt going to walk away from the Mc in the twisties. The MC will walk away on a straight line run.

The Z4 MAY have a shade better time if its a 3.0 in the twisties, but its not a c5, which even a MC can run with. WITH not beat.

So unless the z4 is better than a C5 and ITS NOT, your talking ALL DRIVER in the twisties and all motor in the straightline, if you can put it into gear. Might I suggest a shade under 3000rpm for the launch.

didn't the z4 3.0 beat out the boxster s in the twisties? shouldn't beat out a c5, too? not talking z06-c5, just the regular ls1-c5....

:dunno

I'm voting ///M all the way. As someone said the only significant difference in the twisties will be the driver and his experience with the car. Anything will hand me my ass, I'm still afraid of pushing it.

Originally posted by SilverStreak
didn't the z4 3.0 beat out the boxster s in the twisties? shouldn't beat out a c5, too? not talking z06-c5, just the regular ls1-c5....

:dunno

No it didnt, it went close. But the c5 beat the Boxster S too. A brand new model should be a porsche that really didnt change much from 98.

Originally posted by Hugo
But if it's a beauty contest, the MC wins... :D


:D .








Juker008

Originally posted by Z Couper
Anything will hand me my ass, I'm still afraid of pushing it.


Then I would recomend not deleting the ASC :) .








Juker008

Originally posted by SilverStreak
didn't the z4 3.0 beat out the boxster s in the twisties? shouldn't beat out a c5, too? not talking z06-c5, just the regular ls1-c5....

:dunno

What if it was a 50th anniversary C5 Dave?

I love to mess with you Dave ;)

:lol: at Rob, what if it was a 50th anny c5 but with a fat guy driving it? :D

Originally posted by SilverStreak
:lol: at Rob, what if it was a 50th anny c5 but with a fat guy driving it? :D

That's every vette Dave. I'd like to see the automatic tranny percentages and height/weight of all Vette owners. Many many middle aged, beer belly men, driving automatic vettes :)

All that said, I was waiting for you to come back at me with some info on the special magneto-whatever suspension the anny c5 has. I couldn't find any real tests of it. I believe it was Road & Track that did a comparo of a stock vette, z06, stock vette with z06 wheels, and like one other variation ... maybe it was the anny model come to think of it. The funny thing was the stock C5 was much improved with the Z06 wheels and rubber.

Originally posted by J10B
hugos trying to be nice. The z4 isnt going to walk away from the Mc in the twisties. The MC will walk away on a straight line run.

The Z4 MAY have a shade better time if its a 3.0 in the twisties, but its not a c5, which even a MC can run with. WITH not beat.

So unless the z4 is better than a C5 and ITS NOT, your talking ALL DRIVER in the twisties and all motor in the straightline, if you can put it into gear. Might I suggest a shade under 3000rpm for the launch.

It will be closer than you think.

Are you guys thinking the z51 package on the C5?

And no it wont be closer than I think. The M will walk in a straight line and on straights the Z4 may gain slightly in the twisty but it wont be enough to run on straights.
Ms dyno 220 + to the rear.
3.0s dyno 190-198 to the wheels.
IF the guy even has a 3.0

220? I was only able to achieve 205Hp and 210Tq.

What other engine types does BMW offer for the Z4?








Juker008

205?? did you dyno it right? My z3 1.9 superchargered got 190 with minor tuning. I didnt get that # the guy that bought did.

I think you need to redyno. Thats a REALLY low number. Unless its a mustang dyno. Which I find funny because the mustang put the crank HP at LESS than 240. Which proves that the mustang dyno isnt the "best " dyno just b/c its a lower number.

Actually it was a DynoJet. Now take into consideration that it was done in hot, humid, S. Fla. . That day the temp was around 85oF. Humidity I can't guess.






Juker008

Oh yea I did 4 runs that day. 1 in 2nd, 2 in 3rd, and 1 in 4th. If I remember 2nd was the worst, I don't think it even registered above 200. the rest all averaged out to 205HP , 210Tq .







Juker008

from everything i have seen, read, and heard, an s52 m coupe would be about 3 tenths ahead of a z4 3.0 in straight line acceleration, 0-60 and the 1/4 mile.

in drag racing, where hundredths of a second count, 3 tenths is a gang rape, on the street, it's a win, but not all out slaughter.

i bet on a road course or auto-x, it would damn close, come down to the driver, or who has the better rubber on the road, etc....

maybe teamz4 can chime in since he races z4's...?

Originally posted by SilverStreak
maybe teamz4 can chime in since he races z4's...?

Unlikely. *Somehow* he seems to feel that the Z4 is not appreciated on this board. I don't know why...

:dunno




:devillook

well if that's true, that's a shame, that guy had knowledge...

Originally posted by SilverStreak
that guy had knowledge...

...but he also had a Z4, a major problem with hard headed people like me on this board... :D

something that you might need to modify... besides your car... :D

Hey, I gave props to the Z4's handling in this very thread... I'm nice. :D

....i guess that's progress.... ;)

In 2003, 18,244 auto vettes were produced vs. 8,590 manual vettes... pretty much the same ratio every year of the C5 production from '97-'04... so there are waaay more middle-ages fatties w/autos. :D

The article you are talking about with the suspension test of all the 'vette suspensions MSRC, Z51, stock and Z06 was done in Car and Driver... really good article... here is the link.

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=4&article_id=7004&page_number=1

Originally posted by Rob Nance
That's every vette Dave. I'd like to see the automatic tranny percentages and height/weight of all Vette owners. Many many middle aged, beer belly men, driving automatic vettes :)

All that said, I was waiting for you to come back at me with some info on the special magneto-whatever suspension the anny c5 has. I couldn't find any real tests of it. I believe it was Road & Track that did a comparo of a stock vette, z06, stock vette with z06 wheels, and like one other variation ... maybe it was the anny model come to think of it. The funny thing was the stock C5 was much improved with the Z06 wheels and rubber.

Originally posted by mattjw916
In 2003, 18,244 auto vettes were produced vs. 8,590 manual vettes... pretty much the same ratio every year of the C5 production from '97-'04... so there are waaay more middle-ages fatties w/autos. :D

The article you are talking about with the suspension test of all the 'vette suspensions MSRC, Z51, stock and Z06 was done in Car and Driver... really good article... here is the link.

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=4&article_id=7004&page_number=1

Thanks for the link, the actually mag article is much better though. It's to bad that is such a stripped down article online. I have the magazine iny my stack of mags somewhere, I'll have to dig it up and check it out again.

Originally posted by J10B
And no it wont be closer than I think. The M will walk in a straight line and on straights the Z4 may gain slightly in the twisty but it wont be enough to run on straights.
Ms dyno 220 + to the rear.
3.0s dyno 190-198 to the wheels.
IF the guy even has a 3.0

I still disagree, taking into account the differences in gearing and curb weight. And yes, assuming Z4 3.0 6spd and MCoupe S52.

Originally posted by mattjw916
In 2003, 18,244 auto vettes were produced vs. 8,590 manual vettes... pretty much the same ratio every year of the C5 production from '97-'04... so there are waaay more middle-ages fatties w/autos. :D

The article you are talking about with the suspension test of all the 'vette suspensions MSRC, Z51, stock and Z06 was done in Car and Driver... really good article... here is the link.

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=4&article_id=7004&page_number=1

Not all A4 C5 owners are middle-aged beer belly swilling elastic pants wearing farts:stickoutt

Here's a question, why didn't BMW include the S54 rather than the 3.0 .






Juker008

Originally posted by Juker008
Here's a question, why didn't BMW include the S54 rather than the 3.0 .






Juker008

They would have sold many more Z4s if they did...

I still believe BMW is developing an M variant of the Z4. I dont see how they could avoid that market.

matter of time, i bet, and this time, hopefully, it will get the same gearing as the m3, 3.64, and the same rating, 333 bhp....

Originally posted by Juker008
Here's a question, why didn't BMW include the S54 rather than the 3.0 .






Juker008

Just in case you need further proof that Bangle is the biggest moron ever, you have it now.

Originally posted by Hugo
Just in case you need further proof that Bangle is the biggest moron ever, you have it now.



Bangle?





Juker008

:confused:

You're kidding... right?

:az:

No, no I'm not.






Juker008

O.....kay...

Bangle is the head designer for BMW.

He's responsible for the ugly new 7, the ugly new 5, the ugly new X3 and the ugly Z4. He's killing everything that BMW purists have enjoyed over the years. Just look at many of those cars, and they're a radical departure from their predecessor.

He's a controversial jerk that doesn't care and doesn't know what «brand loyalty» means. Hence my user text.

down hugo down!

Methinks Bangle does not have a lot to do with the drivetrain. That's engineeers vs beancouters.

FWIW, I don't really think my car is a supercar or anything. When I got it, the spec sheet read pretty hot, and I do love to drive it, but it's just not mind blowingly fast.

That triple black S54 with 6k miles in Texas has me thinking impure thoughts.

Hugo, Bangle doesn't decide which engine goes where. He draws the body. Thats all.

Originally posted by Hugo
He's killing everything that BMW purists have enjoyed over the years.

He's a ...jerk that doesn't care and doesn't know what «brand loyalty» means. Hence my user text.

Not accurate statements.

IT's pretty accurate, in a recent interview, he was very arrogant as to why his designs were supposedly the future, and that he didn't care if people liked them or not, they were how cars should be now, and that was the end of that.

That being said, this section is not the appropriate place to start yet another pissing contest about this, and I'm not gonna add anything else.

IMO, the Z4 is trying to be close to an s52 in every way, but not quite there...to me there is a huge difference between M's and non M's. The ///M badge represents not only a car with limited production numbers and upgraded performance components, but also the history of BMW in the racing world. M's are race inspired and carry that persona on the road. So as far as performance, The M is slightly ahead, not by much...but then again i think that's the idea..With a more experienced driver behind the wheel of the Z4, i think he might come closer to winning :evil2 Z4 still catches my stare when I see them going by, so I still give you Z4 owners props!

No one ever called the Z4 an M. It doesn't have the badges for a reason. Just wait though, when the Z4 does go M, it will be quite a car.

Originally posted by Juker008
Then I would recomend not deleting the ASC :) .


ASC is for babies. ;) My ///M never had it.

You guys are talking about what the M cars stand for. Just curious, do M3 drivers get a lot of #$@ing @#$!ers calling their cars 325s?

I am just about sick of hearing my car being referred to as a Z3. But, for stoplight duels, it can come in handy.

Originally posted by Z Couper
ASC is for babies. ;) My ///M never had it.

You guys are talking about what the M cars stand for. Just curious, do M3 drivers get a lot of #$@ing @#$!ers calling their cars 325s?


Oh come on, u and I both know when Fla weather turns foul ASC really comes in handy.








Juker008

haha i learned the hard way that ASC could have come in handy, but i agree it is quite nice not having to turn it off every time i get in the car...///MDriver, i know the car doesnt have an ///M badge for a reason, but this thread is here to compare the two so i just thought i'd throw that bit in there. And as I said, and probably many other people...I still give your car props.

Has anyone taken a Z4 to the strip?

Originally posted by Juker008
Here's a question, why didn't BMW include the S54 rather than the 3.0 .






Juker008

They tried.

Cost was too high and the chassis had a hard time handling the power over the long haul.

Last I heard BMW scrapped the MZ4 project has been .

Brian

Originally posted by dallasbboy
They tried.

Cost was too high and the chassis had a hard time handling the power over the long haul.

Last I heard BMW scrapped the MZ4 project has been .

Brian

Why would it not work in the Z4, yet work in the Z3?


BTW my BMW salesperson(he actually is knowledgable & races motorcycles and BMWs) said that there will be a MZ4...though I know I've yet to see anything from BMWNA.

Because the Z3 was tha shiznit. :D

Seriously, sounds like BS. Stiffer chassis, improved drivetrain, why couldn't it handle the S54? Marketing misinformation, if you ask me.

I agree with Hugo. They don't want people "waiting" for the M. Do they have them with the S54 in Europe?

Theres a guy on roadfly who was on the list for the MZ4, he was told BMW cancelled the venture.

Brian

What no S54 Z4 here in the States? No way that would be one of the biggest marketing mistakes that I could think of.








Juker008

They find all they have to do is slap a Roundel on it here and it will sell. Just looking at the way BMW and others market, I would have expected an ///M version of the Z4 in 05, if they were going to do it. They could be juking everyone, people go ahead and buy the Z4 or the M3 then BMW drops a surprize half way through 05.

Do tell about the Catless mod....in our forum...when you do it.

Originally posted by Hugo
Unlikely. *Somehow* he seems to feel that the Z4 is not appreciated on this board. I don't know why...

:dunno




:devillook


:mdrbig

do I dare to even respond to this thread ... :firedevil

Yeah, please do, LOL!

:)

Originally posted by Z Couper
Has anyone taken a Z4 to the strip?

Someone wanna donate one for an afternoon? :evil2

Originally posted by SilverStreak
Someone wanna donate one for an afternoon? :evil2

sure if you want to try your luck with a 2.5i(& drive a couple hundred miles) lol :)

How's about YOU drive a couple hundred miles, and I'll let you keep the timeslips for bragging rights with your friends... :D

all else being equal, at an autox a Z4 will hands down trump an S52 MC. At the track an S52 will out pull a Z4 3.0 down the long straights, but the Z4 will be much faster in the turns and sweepers, so it will just depend which track you are running.

that's my hands-on opinion anyways ... I've been meaning to get my Z4 to the local NHRA-sanctioned track and on a dyno but was tied up last month moving across town. So maybe within the next month or so. I wouldn't be surprised if it's doing 0 - 60 mph in under 5 flat with the current SCCA Solo2 Stock setup ;)

Originally posted by Z Couper
They could be juking everyone, people go ahead and buy the Z4 or the M3 then BMW drops a surprize half way through 05.

Do tell about the Catless mod....in our forum...when you do it.


:evil2 hee hee, juking, bang bang, bang...bang . Yea giving it to the consumer :evil2 .


Yea alot of the automotive manufactures do those suprise appearances right in the middle of the production cycle. Example, the 6 speed manual transmission Acura CLS didn't come untill later in the production cycle of 2003, rather than right in the begining. They wanted to have consumers buy out the last remaining 02s Autos before they marketed the 03 6MTs.







Juker008