I just beacme a SCCA member and Feb. 1st will be my first event. I need to buy a helmet. Where is the cheapest place to buy? Is $100 areasonable price? Helmetcity.com is the only site I have referenced so far. Should I go with open or full face? I only plan autox with ocassoinal track through driving school or with organizations like unlimitedlaps.com

Thanks in advance,
Strapp

I pretty much know nothing about helmets but when I helped in Tech last year, BMWCCA required Snell 95 at least.

I bought my first one on ebay from Denver Motorcycles for $70.
It's a Fulmer (which is basic for motorcycle) with Snell 2000 and DOT. I'm not heavy into racing or anything and I figured if I were to get more into it, I would find a SIMPSON helmet later. BIG $

The main factor in price will be whether you get an M (motorcycle) or SA (automotive) rated helmet. Either is ok for auto-x, but you might want to consider an SA rated helmet if you plan on doing DE's. You can find a motorcycle helmet for well under $100, but a SA helmet runs ~250 at a minimum. I got a Bell M2 recently and have been very happy with it.

If you plan on doing AutoX and track day on a regular basis, get a good new SA helmet. Some track clubs would not allow M-rated helmets, though most would.

Whatever you decide to buy, don't get an open-face helmet. :nono

Originally posted by Akakubi
If you plan on doing AutoX and track day on a regular basis, get a good new SA helmet. Some track clubs would not allow M-rated helmets, though most would.

Whatever you decide to buy, don't get an open-face helmet. :nono

I concur. Fully.

Do NOT buy an open face helmet. They are really tempting. They are cheaper and they are cooler to wear. I was even tempted. But, even with full 5-point harnesses it's possible to do a face plant on the steering wheel. Don't let anyone tell you different either.

Oh, and if you are looking for a high quality budget helmet, try G-Force. I was really tempted by the forced air helmet, but worried about quality. Then I saw one in person and tried it on. I like the quality better than my Bell Sport II (of which I own two - one is retired due to the date).

I was advised to try Bell Motorsports in Oakland.If you dont like there prices then you can try them on and then shop on line.I just need to find the time to go there.If you go let me know how it is?
Martin

I'd say full face. I got the Bell M2 for my DE this last summer. Definatly get SA, not M. Check with your local clubs to see what the require, most won't let you onto the track w/o SA. As for the temp ?, my M2 wasn't that bad at all and the air temps on the days of my DE were 103 and 107 respectively. Also try before you buy.

Ted

Open face is fine for Auto-x...

Woo-hoo for full faced helmets and all that, but if open face is good enough for FIA World Rally drivers (who routinely get in horrible crashes), they can't be ALL bad! Also, if the helmet is Snell SA2000 rated then it will keep you skull in one piece, open-faced or closed. They don't just hit it with a hammer and call it safe. Still, that just means it will keep your brain safe, not keep your face pretty :cool:

-Bret

Originally posted by BlueMaxx9
Woo-hoo for full faced helmets and all that, but if open face is good enough for FIA World Rally drivers (who routinely get in horrible crashes), they can't be ALL bad!

Yeah, ask Dale Earnhardt. Sure, the face plant didn't kill him, but he did do a face plant. As have others.

Originally posted by BlueMaxx9
Also, if the helmet is Snell SA2000 rated then it will keep you skull in one piece, open-faced or closed. They don't just hit it with a hammer and call it safe. Still, that just means it will keep your brain safe, not keep your face pretty

So, if you like your face the way it is, buy a full-face.

I got another question, if the most recent snell rating is SA2000, are they going to come out with an SA2005? how long do the rating's last until you are not allowed to use them anymore? 10 years?

I wouldn't worry about a new 2005 spec coming out, since most places will let you use a helmet a generation or two old. but it's not like you will have this thing for a decade anyway. I don't remember exactly the time frame, but you are supposed to toss a helemet after a certain amount of time/use and I'm pretty sure it's less than 5 years.

Originally posted by BlueMaxx9
Woo-hoo for full faced helmets and all that, but if open face is good enough for FIA World Rally drivers (who routinely get in horrible crashes), they can't be ALL bad!

When was the last time you had to jump out of your car at a DE or auto-x and change your tire with your helmet on so that you could finish the lap?

Further, those guys are paid and earn a living taking those risks. Last time I checked, there weren't any cash prizes at the local DE. ;)

Many of the drivers are also moving towards helmets with face/chin protection, but many continue to wear open face mostly out of stubborness (reference: Dale Earnhardt).

Good deals on SA helmets can be had @ Mojoracing.com

I like FF cuz I also use it when I ride my moto :mdrbig .

I like my Bell M3 quite a bit. Its similar to the Bell M2 but its made of kevlar. One thing that a lot of people have told me and its really a good thing to keep in consideration is that if you get in a accident in your car you are going to have a few extra pounds on your head. The kevlar keeps the weight down and its stronger than fiberglass. Hey its protecting your head afterall, don't skimp on it unless you want to become a vegetable....

Originally posted by BMWRacerITS
When was the last time you had to jump out of your car at a DE or auto-x and change your tire with your helmet on so that you could finish the lap?

What does having their helmet on have to do with repairing their cars (I'm assuming you were referring to the Rally drivers)? Are they required to keep it on at all times or something? Anyway, it doesn't seem to me that an FF helmet would make those rally repairs any easier or harder. I guess I am just not seeing how this is arguing either for or against open faced helmets?

Further, those guys are paid and earn a living taking those risks. Last time I checked, there weren't any cash prizes at the local DE. ;)

Precision Racing Organization (PRO) ran an autocross series last year with cash prizes. Though your point is still valid since most of this type of racing is just for fun. Although I'd imagine they like the open faced helmets for the same reason Tour De France riders take their helmets off before the end of the stage...because it looks good for the camera. Also I would imagine that, with all the other safety equipment, by the time something in a rally car reaches your face, you are probably already screwed. This doesn't reinforce my theory that open faced helmets aren't all that bad, but then again choosing rally drivers as rolemodels for safe driving habits probably wasn't a good idea in the first place :)

Many of the drivers are also moving towards helmets with face/chin protection, but many continue to wear open face mostly out of stubborness (reference: Dale Earnhardt).
I was under the impression that Dale's biggest problem was that a safety belt mount broke and he snapped his neck because his body was free to move around too much. I didn't think it had anything to do with the helmet he was wearing? Is this wrong?

Anyway, I fully agree that a full face helmet is safer in almost every situation than an open face helmet. I am simply proposing that this fact doesn't necessarily mean an open face helmet is UNsafe. Just that it is LESS safe. Wearing one is a calculated risk, but then again, if we weren't willing to take calculated risks, we wouldn't ahve our cars out on race tracks in the first place .

-Bret

Originally posted by VahramHS
I like my Bell M3 quite a bit. Its similar to the Bell M2 but its made of kevlar. One thing that a lot of people have told me and its really a good thing to keep in consideration is that if you get in a accident in your car you are going to have a few extra pounds on your head. The kevlar keeps the weight down and its stronger than fiberglass. Hey its protecting your head afterall, don't skimp on it unless you want to become a vegetable....

I've also been thinking about this point, in case of an accident, you wouldn't want too much weight resting on the neck.

Does anyone know the weight difference between the M2 Pro and regular M2?

Love my M3, inside linen needs to be soft as you will probably end up taking it off and on all the time depending on how many times you are out on the track or course.

M2 seemed a little cheap to me (inside was not as soft). Plus, you can take inside pieces out more easily on the M3 I believe. One more thing, the M3 was a better fit (snug) for me compare to the M2.

i have a Bell M2 and love it, also get a baclava(head sock), its easier to wash the baclava than the helmet lining. oh yeh and go with a FF helmet, it doesnt feel all that hot even in the texas heat(100+).

Nothing is wrong with full face, but it's not a safety hazard to wear an open face either. In order to do a face plant, your harness would have to fail, which means you are likely going to be severely injured anyway. Airbags and seat belts keep your face from hitting the wheel, not the helmet.

Originally posted by stjobs
Nothing is wrong with full face, but it's not a safety hazard to wear an open face either. In order to do a face plant, your harness would have to fail, which means you are likely going to be severely injured anyway. Airbags and seat belts keep your face from hitting the wheel, not the helmet.

Incorrect!

Belts stretch and so does the human body. There have been many instances of people hitting the steering wheel, even with a harness on. Al Unser Jr. even hit the steering wheel in his Champ Car a number of years ago.

Do not think the belts will keep you from doing a face plant. It can and does happen.

The helmet is there to protect your head. Why only protect 2/3 of it?

Originally posted by stjobs
Nothing is wrong with full face, but it's not a safety hazard to wear an open face either. In order to do a face plant, your harness would have to fail, which means you are likely going to be severely injured anyway. Airbags and seat belts keep your face from hitting the wheel, not the helmet.

Please don't speak as an expert on safety issues when you don't know something to be 100% correct. This is simply wrong. Have you ever seen what a body does in a head-on collision (even at 30-40 mph)? Even with a proper 6-point setup, there's an excellent chance of your head hitting the steering wheel, especially if you have the wheel and seat positioned properly for high performance driving.

To me, it's like this. If I owned a motorcycle again, I would buy the best protective clothing available and the best helmet. My body and my mobility is very important to me.
Also, having had jaw surgery, I know how painful it can be and that is why I would never wear an open-face helmet in a car or on a motorcycle.

This video shows how much the body can move during an impact:

http://www.scca.com/ads/safe.html

Reminds me of a rag doll being thrown around.

Flame on, guys, but I never declared myself to be an expert. That said, I don't think anyone on this forum is.

I'm just sharing my beliefs on the issue. When you are driving on the street, there's a chance that you could get hit head on by someone who crosses from the opposite lane. No one that I know of wears a full face helmet in the car. Granted, it's not high performance driving, but the danger of an accident is still there.

Also, if you want to get anal, a "full face" helmet doesn't protect your entire face. Your forehead and chin, yeah, but your nose and brow could still get decently smashed especially if it's a smaller diameter steering wheel.

It's not that I think a full face will save you from everything, but I would just hate to be thinking later....."gee, I wish I had worn a full face instead of mine because now I have no chin!"

You didn't give your opinion, you made a declarative statement. Particularly when speaking of safety issues that could mean life or death for the person involved, I think it's fairly important that opinion is not stated as fact.

I've instructed students who read "opinions" on a message board that were presented as fact, which resulted in either their car being improperly prepared or endangering themselves, me, and other drivers on the track trying something that was beyond their skill level.

I'm guilty of stating my opinion as fact as well, but I definitely try to stay away from that when dealing with safety issues (harnesses, helmets, rollbars, etc). In the end, the driver has to make the decision for themselves, but it doesn't help if they are being presented "fact" that is simply opinion.

It's not flaming, it's pointing out flaws in your "facts" that could save someone's life.

Facts are good, especially when regarding safety equipment. The fact is that there are several Snell SA 2000 approved open-face helmets, which means they have been tested to the same standards of crash safety as all the SA 2000 FF helmets. Actually, there is one test that is only performed on FF helmets, but it is not a penetration or energy dispersion test. The test is designed to tell if the chin bar will cause the helmet to rotate backwards on a wearers head, which can move the helmet out of an effective position to protect your head. So, the only extra testing done to an FF helmet is to make sure that it doesn't do MORE damage. There is no testing done to determine if a FF helmet is any safer than an OF helmet. The FACTS are that SA2000 FF helmets are not proven to be any safer than OF helmets. I'm no expert, so I am trusting the people who are, and have certified several OF helmets. Maybe there is a test out there that has shown FF helmets to be safer than OF, but I haven't seen it, and untill I do, I sticking with the idea that OF helmets are still safe.

-Bret

The old adage goes like this:

If you have a $100 head, then get a $100 helmet.

Words to the wise. I have seen drivers wearing 5 point harnesses in air bag equipped cars break the windshield with their helmet. Full face is the best and open face is the worst.

I have a Bieffe Predator that was, at the time, the only model available in a very large size. (Bell now makes the M3Extra, or blockhead, but it was unavailable when I bought mine). I bought it from Bell Motorsports. I recommend them.

http://www.bellmotorsports.com/

Common sense tells me that a FF helmet is safer than an OF. Testing by Snell doesn't tell me that, because that's not what they are testing for.

Extracting that OF helmets are just as safe as FF helmets based on the Snell tests would be like checking your fuel level to make sure you put the right amount of oil in the car. You can't extract information from a test that the test wasn't designed to provide.

Just because both FF and OF meet Snell standards doesn't not mean that FF is not safer than OF. All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares. Common sense tells you that an OF helmet isn't going to protect your face in a head on collision as effectively as a FF.

The test Snell performs on the chin guard...let's think about that one for a bit. By testing that, Snell admits that impacts to the face are a concern. So, which would you rather have? An impact to your face that hits the chin bar or an impact to your face that hits your chin? If the helmet has passed the Snell test, you can be assured the chin bar is fine and very, very likely provides more protection than if it weren't there.

Bluemaxx...do me a favor and perform this test. Put on a FF helmet and run as fast as you can into a brick wall leading with your head. Now perform the same test with an OF helmet. Report back on the results.

Further, it should also be noted that a FF helmet also provides additional protection for your face in the case of a fire. Personally, I wouldn't mind burned hands, feet, arms, but a burned face would be a bit tougher to live with.

Have you noticed that very, very, very few professional racing organizations allow open face helmets these days? Why do you think they have made the change? Safety would seem the only logical conclusion.

There's simply no evidence to suggest that an OF helmet is just as safe as FF helmet. On the other hand, I have no solid evidence to prove otherwise, only common sense that I'm not passing off as fact. In the end, it's the individual's decision.

Originally posted by kster
This video shows how much the body can move during an impact:

http://www.scca.com/ads/safe.html

Reminds me of a rag doll being thrown around.

Day_em!!!

I've known a HANS was in my future at some point. Sooner than later now.

Originally posted by BMWRacerITS
Common sense tells me that a FF helmet is safer than an OF. Testing by Snell doesn't tell me that, because that's not what they are testing for.

Amen. I'm sure the Snell folks believe the average racer can figure out that the OF helmet just doesn't protect your face.

Originally posted by BlueMaxx9
The FACTS are that SA2000 FF helmets are not proven to be any safer than OF helmets. I'm no expert....

So, the first statement is to be discounted by the second? :awink:

Ok, for the crowd that claims an OF is just as safe, would you volunteer to put an OF helmet on and try these two tests designed to test the functionality of FF helmets from the Snell site? Since an OF helmet is "just as safe", surely you'll be fine? After all, there's no difference in the safety between the two. We could also perform the flame test...you get to wear the OF, I'll wear the FF with shield down. ;)

Chin Bar Test
The chin bar test applies to full face motorcycle, special application racing and kart racing helmets. The helmet is affixed to a rigid base with the chin bar facing upward. A 5 kg weight is dropped through a guided fall to strike the central portion of the chin bar. Maximum downward deflection of the chin bar must not exceed the stated distance.

Faceshield Penetration Test
The face shield penetration test applies to full face motorcycle, special application racing and kart racing helmets. The face shield is affixed to the helmet and shot along the center line in three separate places with an air rifle using a sharp soft lead pellet. Pellet speed will be approximately 500 kph. For the both types of shield the pellet must not penetrate, and for the racing helmet any resulting "bump" on the inside of the shield must not exceed 2.5 mm.

Let me know how it works out. :)

Originally posted by stjobs
Flame on, guys, but I never declared myself to be an expert. That said, I don't think anyone on this forum is.

I may not be a helmet engineer, but they are near and dear to me. My first helmet (and neck collar) literally saved my life in a karting accident. Well, I'm not even sure it was an accident. The guy behind me used my head instead of the brake pedal to slow down.

Trust me, you cannot buy too much protection. Hell, I used to think the Kevlar helmets were more for open wheel guys. Then someone pointed out that in a 50g crash a 1/2 pound difference in helmet mass means 25 pounds less force on my neck. My new helmet (currently being professionally painted) is a Kevlar helmet. The difference is very noticeable.

Heh, Brian, I saw a very claer indication of the strength of the original Bell Star helmet about 30 years ago. I visited Auto World in Scranton, PA (anybody know what happened to them?) and they had a Bell Start they shot with a 12ga shotgun from 10 feet away. Just scratches in the paint and a few small dimples in the face shield (and this was when face shields were half the thickness they are today).

While driving my Formula Mazda, I took a rather large bolt right in the center of my face shield on the back straight of Road Atlanta. I was moving at 135+ and the bolt was thrown from under the tire of a car in front of me moving at the same speed, so it probably hit my shield at 160+. It hit so hard that is slammed by head into the padded headrest and gave me a headache. Meanwhile, the shield was intact and I finished the race. Save for the scratch on the shield, I could use it again.

Wowie zowie.

I've only had a BIG yellow-green bug splat square in the middle of my face shield. :eatit: Sure got my attention. And it just smeared when I wiped it since I didn't have any tear-offs that day.

Okay this debate is getting a little nasty so I'm gonna just let it go. I have apparently pissed some of you off, and this thread is heading towards flame-war territory (As much do to me as anyone else). Sorry about that. Also, please don't think I am trying to get this poor n00b killed out on a track, just trying to get some info out there about both options. Although I suppose I could have done that in a less sarcastic manner.

If it makes you feel any better, I did admit a while back, and still believe that an FF helmet is probably a safer option. I just didn't think that made them the ONLY option.

thanks for listening,

-Bret

GOOD POINT!

I've had a chunk of tire hit my face and that reminded me to drive with my visor DOWN!

Why is everyone so afraid of a little bit of disagreement these days? You can't have a good argument on a message board without someone claiming it's a flamefest.

No one has called anyone names or insulted anyone's mama. I've simply argued my point, which happens to deal with a very serious safety concern. It's not a flame, no need to take things personally as I haven't taken anything you've said personally.

When looking for a helmet, take this advice:

Which one would your mother want you to wear or which one would you pick for your child?

"You didn't give your opinion, you made a declarative statement."

Any time someone posts on an internet message board, it's implied that it's an opinion. That's why we have user names that our posts appear next to. No one else on this thread inserted a disclaimer saying "I am not a safety expert, the following is my opinion, take at your own risk".

I agree with what Bluemax said - no one is arguing that FF helmets don't provide more protection, but the point is that open face helmets are acceptable, safe, and can be used. If they were so dangerous, they would not be manufactured and Snell approved. You do have a choice.

Originally posted by stjobs
Any time someone posts on an internet message board, it's implied that it's an opinion.

I'm not sure I agree with that. There are plenty of facts stated on Internet message boards as well. I'm in Bryan's court regarding prefacing opinions as such.

Originally posted by stjobs
I agree with what Bluemax said - no one is arguing that FF helmets don't provide more protection, but the point is that open face helmets are acceptable, safe, and can be used. If they were so dangerous, they would not be manufactured and Snell approved. You do have a choice.

I'm actually surprised that Snell continues to certify open face brain buckets. Doesn't make sense to me. It's not far from certifying leather helmets for football or wearing a football helmet w/o a guard.

OF helmets are indeed a bit cheaper to buy, but as I stated before, why buy a helmet that only protects 2/3 of your head?

OK, let's put all of this debate into perspective......

This is a post from the Rennlist (Porsche) racing forum. The person who posted this owns a racing team that had a fatality in 2003. Ironically, the fatal accident happened at around 40 mph. I am not an expert, but this person did considerable research into safety after the fatality.

So, don't take my word for it. Take his.

===============================

We have recently done extensive research of race seat safety and design and have posted a brief article of our findings at our website (http://www.realride.com "LEARNING FROM TRAGEDY"). With the recent requirements by several sanctioning bodies for head and neck restraint devices, race seats remain one of the remaining areas of race car safety that needs to be addressed with urgency.

Our research was in reponse to a recent tragedy in our team in which we lost one of our drivers. Though it's not clear whether a better race seat would have saved him, our research indicates that many similar fatalities could probably be avoided with better race seats and safety accessories. Our own race engineer met with many of the race seat manufacturers and their engineers. Much of the information we have tends to be raw data from sled testing and would bore the average forum reader. Most of it is also proprietary so I am unable to discuss this as well. However, one of the most significant crash test tapes that we reviewed was performed by Daimler Chrysler and involved the sled tests of various name brand race seats (most FIA approved) and what we saw was simply shocking. Under a sideways or angular impact, the likelihood of severe injury (and usually worse) that a driver can suffer using the majority of exisiting race seats out there is extremely high. The majority of seats do not offer any lateral upper body and nead/neck support in the event of an impact. This is how many fatalities occur. A sideways impact that violently twists the driver's upper body which leads to severe neck trauma.
Our findings suggested the following:

1) A seat that is as solidly mounted into the car as possible. Some of the seats even require 3 mounting bolts per corner (2 in front, 1 in rear). You also do not want the seat to deform under impact. The seat should be an integral part of the safety cage, not mounted to the floorpan. Seat back braces will offer additional structure and safety if done properly.

2) Upper body and head/neck lateral support is an absolute must. The large "ear" type bolsters commonly found in Touring Cars is good. However, the most recent solutions offer a "halo" style headrest and this has been found to be the most effective.

3) Seats constructed of materials with some type of structural "memory" tend to be better than ones made of a maleable material. At it's stress limit, carbon fiber or fiberglass will briefly deform, then return to it's original shape. While this isn't ideal, it appears to offer a better solution than a maleable material which will remain deformed. Some of the exceptions to this case are in custom engineered seats such as the ones offered by Randy La Joie or PPI. These seats were designed as an integral part of the entire chassis which leaves the driver in a safety cell. But be prepared to spend upwards of $6,000-$10,000 for these seats.

4) The lighter the helmet (always wear full face), the less enertia under decelaration. Remember, it's not the speed that will injure you, it's the sudden decelaration.

5) Additional cockpit protection is highly advised. Many of the teams are using a triangular net on the driver's right side to prevent the driver's head from hyper extending under impact. Minimal obstructions and clear exits are vital. No sharp edges near the driver. Is your radio disconnect pointed the right direction?

Head and neck restraint devices are designed for foreward and backward impact. And while we highly recommend such devices, additional protection is needed for lateral impact. Under even a small g-load impact, the driver's body will distort an unbelieveable amount. A good friend of mine was in a World Challenge Touring car race many years ago (back when they still ran Miatas). He slid into a wall sideways in a street circuit race and confessed to me that his head hit the PASSENGER side rollcage tubing above the window, then it rebounded across the car and hit the rollcage above the window net. This is how much the human body can and will distort under a severe enough impact. Ironically, hitting the rollcage was what probably saved his life as the small cockpit of the Miata didn't allow much travel and acceleration of his body. But he did suffer multiple concussions, and in a larger car, this could have been fatal.

The human neck has been known to stretch as much as six inches under impact. Paul Tracy's neck was speculated to have stretched this much when his face hit the steering wheel of his Champ car (a good reason to wear a full face helmet). Your belts will stretch, twist and slide under a severe enough impact. Many of the crash test dummies that twisted free of their belts had been tightened into their belts beyond a human being's capacity to breathe.
Safety salesmen will always say "$10 helmet, $10 head". While much of it is salesman jargon, there is some truth to this. I'm not suggesting that we all spend countless thousands of dollars on safety equipment, especially if that's simply out of your budget or overkill. But only you can determine the value of your life. Every racer, amateur or professional, needs to understand that we are engaging in a highly dangerous sport. Do not kid yourself that your 1.7liter Porsche 914 Autocross car can't kill you. Remember, under the right circumstances, you can experience a 40g impact at 40mph. It's probably unlikely, but only you can determine the limits of your safety requirements.

Sanctioning bodies have safety requirements. Do not use them to suggest the limits of your safety requirements. Instead, use them as your MINIMUM requirements. Onboard fire systems, head and neck restraints, forced air helmets and cool suits to reduce your body temperature, 6 point or even 8 point belts, quick release steering wheels, practicing your exits with your eyes closed, fuel cells... all these things will increase your safety and only you can determine how far you want to go. Rather than taking our recommendations at face value, I suggest everybody do their own research and post their findings. This is the only way we can all improve the safety of our sport. Good luck to all and be safe.

Regards,
David
REALRIDE.COM RACING
http://www.RealRide.com

"4) The lighter the helmet (always wear full face)"

So this one line is all the justification you need? Can I ask, why are open face helmets manufactured, Snell SA rated, and approved at all DEs? Professional racing has completely different requirements than DEs. No one would race in a touring car using a stock 3 point seat belt, and I don't know of many people who feel they have to get a roll cage and 6 point harness to do a few DEs a year. The original poster was asking about a helmet for auto-x and occasional DEs, not to start a pro racing career.

Originally posted by BMWRacerITS
Common sense tells me that a FF helmet is safer than an OF.

I can't believe we have to actually -argue- about this :confused:

Buy a damn FF helmet, and stop whining.

What's another $100 or so when you're talking about your life?

Far too many teenagers on this forum with no money to spend on "mods" but more than enough time to fantasize about owning them - and to pick at trivialities in other people's posts. Just grow up.

Oh, and make it an SA, at that.

Originally posted by Low Level
I can't believe we have to actually -argue- about this :confused:

Buy a damn FF helmet, and stop whining.

What's another $100 or so when you're talking about your life?

Far too many teenagers on this forum with no money to spend on "mods" but more than enough time to fantasize about owning them - and to pick at trivialities in other people's posts. Just grow up.

Yep.

What gets me is people who will spend hundreds of dollars to chase hundreths of a second, but won't spend a hundred to save their life.

A basic Pyrotect/G-Force SA2000 full-face helmet is gonna cost about $250...

You can't buy half of your average aftermarket cat-back exhaust for $250, but I bet everyone has one.

You can't buy half of a basic aftermarket suspension setup (and I mean only the shocks and springs) for $250 - same applies.

For $250 you can probably buy one new decent 17" aftermarket rim - and we all know that none of us would dare go without those, if not bigger and more expensive.

You can't even buy a set of tires for our cars for $250.

You shouldn't --need-- a full-face helmet, or any helmet for that matter, to survive a DE/AutoX.

But when shit gets squirrelly, I know I want every inch of my head covered.

I have a family that I'd like to see again.

So I don't care what research has or has not proven, don't care about specially designed hammers bouncing off test helmets in a specially designed manner - I'm spending that $250 on the SA2000 full-facer, and I'll wait another couple weeks or months for my clear taillights.

Because you just never know.