We are participating in a Driver's Ed at Talledega Monday. My car is engine basically stock, cross-drilled rotors, new pads, new tires, lowered suspension, new shocks-struts, strut bar front, intake.

My question is: After pre-inspection today, my mechanic says I should flush out the brake fluid and replace it with Castrol LMA. Is that good enough? Any other suggestions?

thanks in advance

Ok, on another thread you said Barber was the best track in the world...here you say you've never been on track.

Barber is nice, but certainly not even in the Top 5 tracks I've driven. The grounds are nice, the facilities amazing, but the track is just OK.

ATE Super Blue is an excellent choice on brake fluid. Castrol LMA isn't a performance fluid, but rather a fluid that markets itself as being slow to absord moisture...it's designed to be left in street cars for 4+ years.

Barber's has been touted one of the finest tracks in the world. Also, the pavement was just removed and replaced to fix the cracked corners. No expense has been spared.

I have driven on Barber's. I helped with the driving school last year but I didn't participate. Some fast parade laps and a few with a friend driving my car as well with the instructors.

My only concern with ATE is that if you want any warranty on items from the dealer, you have to remove it first and replace it with OEM fluid. Even though my car is out of warranty is their any reason why that fluid would be harmful for daily driving afterwards?

Yeap, who touted it as such? Barber? ;)

I've never heard a racer actually say Barber was one of the finest tracks in the world. It has some of the finest facilities in the world, but that's what most all the praise is about.

Facilities: A++
Track: C+/B-

Barber, similiar to Mid-O, is a tough track to pass on. It also allows a lower powered car to compete pretty well with a higher powered car.

The facilities are breath taking, I'll certainly go back for that alone, but the track just isn't anything too special.

"World Class" is a phrase thrown at a lot of things that aren't necessarily the best in the world.

No, it would never be harmful for daily driving, it has a higher boiling point. The only downside is that it is more expensive, thus a little overkill for street driving but not harmful.

Originally posted by Randy
My only concern with ATE is that if you want any warranty on items from the dealer, you have to remove it first and replace it with OEM fluid.

According to who?

The President and his wife from our Heart of Dixie Chapter were told last year by the Huntsville BMW Service Dept. that their warranty was void unless they drained the ATE and replaced it with OEM before servicing. That may be their policy, but it's definitely what they were told.

I believe I would call and report that BMW Dealer to BMW NA as well as BMW CCA. The dealership doesn't have a right to make the policy, and I've never heard of OEM brake fluid being a requirement in the past from BMW NA (perhaps things have now changed).

Ya know, I think it has a lot to do with dealerships getting out of warranty repairs by blaming it on track usage. I have definitely heard that about Porsche lately.
Having had worked closely with Porsche, BMW, Rover, Audi dealers here, I do know that the service advisors catch hell over warranty work that is the slightest questionable. Two of my friends los their jobs at the end of the year because they took the fall for their managers. Now, all those managers have been replaced.......

How about tire pressure? I was thinking 50 PSI and lower at the track if I need to. I doubt I'll get roll-over with street tires.

My advice is to relax - don't try to set any speed records. Remember that you have to slow down and get smooth to go fast. It took me several schools to learn this simple lesson.

ATE Blue works great. 50 PSI is too much - maybe 40 - and lower more at the track.

Have fun.

Jim

yeah, thanks for the good advice, we all have to start somewhere. Unfortunately owning my own business has kept me from participating in more events until now. So far, I've only been able to help part-time at our events and it's been killing me.

This event should help get me more confident and ready for the larger event at Barber's in July.

Yeah, what bryan said.

I'll add, however, to skip the ATE Superblue and go with ATE Typ 200 (Gold). Same as the superblue, but w/o the characterstic blue dye. Should look the same as OE, and not cause dealership issues.

Ahh, very good advice frayed.....Can you buy this ATE 200 at any local auto parts stores?

Originally posted by Randy
Ya know, I think it has a lot to do with dealerships getting out of warranty repairs by blaming it on track usage. I have definitely heard that about Porsche lately.
Having had worked closely with Porsche, BMW, Rover, Audi dealers here, I do know that the service advisors catch hell over warranty work that is the slightest questionable. Two of my friends los their jobs at the end of the year because they took the fall for their managers. Now, all those managers have been replaced.......

The dealer is full of it. Ate is the OEM fluid supplier to BMW, so the use the same stuff in the system, just lower grade. They are totally mixable/interchangeable.

Like the guys said, get the Typ200 to play it safe. Most Internet stores carry it. I found it the cheapest on the www.eap4parts.com - buy more and save more. You only need two cans (quarts/liters) really.

But remember, if you keep running stock pads, the brakes will still fade badly after some track time. First time you'll be OK, but change them for the later events.

If you run on street 17"-18" wheels/tires then 40psi is too much even. You'll overheat them quickly and lose braking and cornering grip. Start off with 38F and about 36R and go from there. You'll be dropping pressure for sure as you progress or the day gets warmer.

I have had nothing but good luck with motul DOT 4 brake fluid so that is another option, perhaps a little expensive though.

Also make sure all of your lug nuts are on tight. Also remove all the loose stuff in your car. And remeber learn the limits of your car before you start going for any lap records.

ATE blue works great for me,I toased the regular fluid on my first track meet.No problems since.
I run stock wheels and tires.I find that if I go below 40 psi I tear up the outside and the inside of my tires.40 gives me even tire wear.
Make sure you have a SSK and TME's,or it could be money shift time.I would not even think of it with out it.You are changing gear at some some severe angles.Good luck.
Martin

Just an FYI for anyone whose dealer says something like this whole brake fluid BS, your warranty claims can't be denied based of which brand of fluids (or any replacement parts for that matter) you use. Search the net on the Magnusson-Moss Act for more information. I found out about it myself when a dealer tried to deny a warranty repair on my last car because I had used a K&N air filter instead of a stock filter. I would have expected more from BMW, but I suppose in some cases, the mechanics either don't know or choose to ignore the rules about warranty repairs. Hope this helps.

I've written a "newbie" sheet for attending track DE's. It is by all means not the fullest list, but just a helpful FYI that I found useful over time.

http://www.monsoonauto.com/en-us/tracktip.html

Hope it helps a bit....:dunno

Great write-up, I will pass that on to our Club Pres.

Originally posted by Randy
Great write-up, I will pass that on to our Club Pres.

Glad I could help! :wave: :D

Originally posted by BlueMaxx9
Just an FYI for anyone whose dealer says something like this whole brake fluid BS, your warranty claims can't be denied based of which brand of fluids (or any replacement parts for that matter) you use. [snip]
I think it should be noted that Ate Blue is not DOT which might have something to do with the reluctance of some dealers. Ate 200 is a different story.

And to stay within the context of this thread. Leave your ego at the gate.

Originally posted by 1996 328ti
I think it should be noted that Ate Blue is not DOT which might have something to do with the reluctance of some dealers. Ate 200 is a different story.

And to stay within the context of this thread. Leave your ego at the gate.

What do you mean it's not DOT? It's DOT4. :dunno

I should have made myself clearer.
DOT as in Department of Transportation.

What makes brake fluid DOT approved is the amber color among probably other things.

Originally posted by 1996 328ti
I should have made myself clearer.
DOT as in Department of Transportation.

What makes brake fluid DOT approved is the amber color among probably other things.

Interesting, you are actually right about the color. Here are the DOT specs for brake fluid: http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rulesregs/fmcsr/regs/571.116.htm

I took a quick look through it and found this passage, "S5.1.14 Fluid color. Brake fluid and hydraulic system mineral oil shall be of the color indicated: DOT 3, DOT 4, and DOT 5.1 non-SBBF -- colorless to amber. DOT 5 SBBF -- purple. Hydraulic system mineral oil -- green." where SBBF is Silicone Based Brake Fluid. Huh, learn something new every day!

Well, here's the update:

I got some Tutella Dot 5 brake fluid and the brakes never once lost any response. We had a lot of time on the track. I clocked about 2.5 hours in one day before I was just too damn tired.

That was a great experience and I have some good video and I will post it as soon as I find a host for it.

I guess one bit of caution.
Isn't DOT5 silicone based and not to be used with ABS?

hmmm, not sure about that one.

It looks as though you are correct, but I'll be changing my fluid again within a couple month anyway, so I should be okay.
http://www.unofficialbmw.com/all/brakes/all_brake_fluid.html

If it was my car I'd have the fluid replaced at a dealer or by someone who can cycle the ABS.

Yikes. DOT 5 is a serious no-no.

Not only does DOT 5 not absord water, causing water to get trapped in low spots in your calipers and hydralic system, but DOT 5 does NOT mix with DOT 3 or 4. The only way to properly switch between the two is to completely rebuild your hydraulic system.

DOT 5 also tends to be very viscous. It's nearly impossible to get all of the air out of the system when adding the fluid. It'll feel fine when you add the fluid, but over time small bubbles form together to form big bubbles and you wind up with an "OH SH*T" situation as you are backing out of your driveway and find you have no brakes.

Chances are, you still have DOT 4 fluid left in your system that won't mix with the DOT 5. That DOT 4 has moisture trapped in it that will eventually begin to rust the part of the system that it's trapped in.

To do things right, you really need to pull the entire system apart and clean it all out and then return to a proper DOT 4 fluid.

We already changed mine out to Castrol LMA. I wont change it again until July for Barber's.