*MODS* Please sticky this!

Bought my car, Certified Pre Owned from Beverly Hills BMW on 7/16/03. The car seemed ackward from the beginning with regard to the right fender alignment with the hood. It never really looked right after we bought it.

A month after I bought it, I took it to bmw because the hood would not open and close properly. They couldnt fix it at the dealer but said that they would pay for my body shop to fix it.

120$ later (which they paid) the car was looking better, the hood closing correctly but the front still looked out of whack.

A couple of days ago, I became angered that my car still didn't meet factory specs. I took it to my body shop and demanded that they fix it. After a bunch of hassles, they took the front end apart and noticed that about 7 washers, taking up about 1 and 1/2 inch space between the bumper and a plastic bracket.

I took it to Beverly Hills BMW and told them the story. They said OK, no problem, take to to our body shop, which is Beverly Hills Auto Body, and we will have them fix it.

Ok, cool no problem, they are going to fix it, right? NOT.

I took it to their body shop and left it there. They called me this morning and told me that. The shock tower is crowned and mushroomed, and that there is damage to the apron. Aparently these washers were there to make the fender line up properly (even though it doesnt), and without them, because of the damage, the fender would not line up at all.

SO Chris, the body shop guys talked to Jeff, the sales manager at Beverly Hills BMW and he DECLINED PAY for the damage, claiming that it was "new damage"

Bimmerfoums members, I need your help! This is thousands of dollars of damage that bmw is refusing to pay for. What can I do to get them to pay for this? This is definitly not new damage, that side has been out of whack since I bought the car.

Please help me rectify this problem.

hopefully BMWNA will see this. maybe you can contact them. good luck!

Sounds like they sold you a rebuilt wreak.

Maybe check the if Cali has Lemon Laws? Or maybe it doesn't apply to used cars?:dunno

If I were you I'd start writing letters to the Owner of the dealer, and what not...Maybe even consult a lawyer?

Good luck...

When I bought my 323iT from Bev. Hills I drove it home to Nor Cal and noticed a humming at speeds past 70mph. I made a service appointment the same weekend for Monday. I took it in and they said it had a bad bearing and would need that and a new wheel. At first BH tried to screw me and say how do we know you didn't do it. I swore a few times and then wrote a letter on my firm letterhead (I am an attorney). They gave Stevens Creek the okay to fix it.

Get yourself a lawyer. Sounds like that car has been in an accident. Go down the CPO checklist and find any item that should alerted them to the problem. Also, ask to see ALL the service records on the car. Any dealer can pull them up by using the VIN. Better yet, call another dealer and see if the service guy will pull up the history for you. It would be great if they showed it a body shop repair in that area. Show that to Beverly Hills and they will change their tune.

New car lemon law does not apply for used cars.

Was it pointed out in any paper work that the hood was not aligned when you purchased the car?

http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e46m3/forum.php?postid=4419838&page=1

Today I went, after making the initial post and went to see the sales manager. While we were discussing it, John, the assistant sales manager kept comming in and making remarks.

He said that I bottomed out the car, the the bottom was cracked and a bunch of other crap.

I have never driven my car like that, I practicially baby it.

If anyone has a legal document that I could use, I would really appreciate it. My dealer purchased it from BMW as an "executive lease" vehicle and they stand by the fact that no accidents were disclosed upon purchasing.

They said that I have to wait until monday when Frank the service manager comes back because it was certified through his department and they would have never passed over something like that so I must have done it.

Please help me!!

Well, they passed over my bad wheel bearing. You could certainly mention that. If that is their position, ask them to pull up all service records. No matter where the car is from, they should have access.

He is a longer more detailed description of everything. Please Help me get this fixed!!

My email to BMW of NA:



I purchased my car, Certified Pre Owned from Beverly Hills BMW on 7/16/03 from salesman Joel Brooks. The car seemed awkward from the beginning with regard to the right fender alignment with the hood. Even before purchasing, we mentioned that the right fender had been previously removed- the paint on the screws that hold the fender under the hood in the engine bay had been tainted with. The front was misaligned and they said that they would take care of it once we bought the car. We purchased the car, completely under the impression that it had NEVER been in any accident whatsoever. They assured me that is was not in any accident and said that BMW (who they bought it from as an executive lease vehicle) would have to disclose it and that it was an excellent car.

Two weeks after I purchased the car, I took it to BMW because the hood would not open and close properly. The latch was sticking out of the grille more than it should even when closed. I also noticed about a 1 inch crack on the inside of the right turn signal. They took it into their service department and concluded that it was the front alignment because the lever was fine. The bumper was also up too high and rubbing against the fender- they were crammed together. They couldn’t fix it at the dealer but said that they would pay for my body shop to fix it. Louis Beckett (the assistant sales manager) referred me to a shop who would fix the front end. The shop was called G.B. Auto Body on La Brea near Wilshire. They replaced the light, readjusted the bumper and aligned the fender but it still looked horrible and not up to factory specifications of a stock 330ci. Touch up paint was applied where the bumper and fender were crammed together. The hood still didn’t completely open and close properly.

About a month later, I took the car back to BMW because the front alignment was still out of whack, the fenders were not aligned correctly and, the hood was still not closing right, I informed them that I had taken it to my body shop, Eli’s Auto Body, and that they agreed to align it for 120. Louis Beckett said that they would gladly take care of it and to have the work performed. I had my body shop do the work and paid them. I got a check in the mail from BMW about a week later. The car was looking better, the hood closing correctly but the front still looked out of whack, and still nothing aligned correctly.

A couple of days ago, I became angered that my car still didn't meet factory specs. I took it to my body shop and demanded that they fix it. After a bunch of hassles, they took the front end apart and noticed a bunch of washers, taking up about 1 and 1/2 inch space used as spacers between the fender and some plastic bracket. My body shop said that they could not align the front end because of those spacers. They said that they were not supposed to be there and that the front could not be aligned because it is not assembled correctly.

I took it to Beverly Hills BMW and told them my findings. They said OK, no problem, take it to our body shop, which is Beverly Hills Auto Body, and we will have them fix it.

I took it to their body shop and left it there. They called me this morning and told me that. The shock tower is crowned and mushroomed, and that there is damage to the apron. Apparently these washers were there to make the fender line up properly (even though it doesn’t), and without them, because of the damage, the fender would not line up at all. They said that the car is unsafe to drive and that it needs MAJOR suspension work.

Chris, the body shop guy talked to Jeff, the sales manager at Beverly Hills BMW and he DECLINED PAY for the damage. They sold me a car as tainted merchandise- claming that it had never been involved in a wreck- that they bought it from BMW as an Executive Lease and that it would have to have been disclosed to them when they purchased it. We own 3 BMW’s, and Beverly Hills BMW is refusing to accept responsibility when they should.

This problem must be rectified immediately. I am submitting this document to BMW of NA before I take other roads to resolve this problem. If no solution is rendered, I will have no choice but to contact my Lawyer regarding this issue in order to have the work needed and required for my car, be performed.

Please assist me in solving this problem.

Thank You.
Michael Benveniste

If the car was an official CPO car the dealer is obligated to disclouse any repairs that were done to the car.

Keep on pushing for them to foot the bill of the repair costs or refund your money completely.

Mentioning a lawyers name can expedite justice.

Just be sure to stay diplomatic with everything even though its very hard to in situations like these.

Brian

In oregon if you call the attorney general they will send you a report to fill out. I don't know about Cali but you mention the attorney general in Oregon and you will get results even the shitty dealers will jump to if you show them the reportfrom the attorney general. Did any of your paperwork say anything about the alignment or bumper not fitting? If it did you have them.

Several items on the BMW CPO checklist

http://www.bmw.com.ph/products/cpo/certification.pdf

It would fail on, I do not see the US version but I assume it is substantially similar. Tell them you want ALL your money back including finance charges, if they cannot comply within 10 business days, further communications can be directed to your attorney. One of the other more popular ones I have seen it to put a BIG sign on the door of your vehicle which reads something to the effect of: Beverly Hills BMW sold me this WRECKED 330i CPO and park it at whatever is next door to the dealer. That gets QUICK action.

Not sure how BMW does CPO but rover customer, service manager and tech all sign the sheet.

Bottom line, some dealers get greedy and CPO crap that should not be CPOed. When I was in the biz we wholesaled about HALF of the trucks we looked at because they were not CPOable.

Oh and the other thing, the whole concept of CPO is basically a scam to charge more, but that is a side issue.

Sorry to hear about your problems but all hope is not lost yet.There are still few things you can do to get this matter resolved.
1)- Have your body shop give you an honest opinion about the time frame of the damage.What i mean is can they comment about how old the damage looks say 5 months old or something like that esp by look for new control arms/rusty bolts/panels
2)- Ask BMW to release you the name of the previous owner/s to confirm if the car had a previous damage or not.I'm pretty sure an Attorney's letter will make them release the names.
3)- Run a carfax report and see if there's any damage declared there or not
4)- Since you brought the car right back within 2 weeks for malaligned panels,it will prove to anyone that the car was damaged to begin with.
Anyway no offense if you didn't cause the damage i can reassure you that some attorney will be more then willing to take your case.Regadless,since the car is damaged i will definately,definately insist on returning the car ( forget about the repair) and ask for a replacement as selling this car would hurt the value immensly.
Good-Luck and don't forget "knowledge is power" & what these Fuckers don't realize is how strong is out internet car enthusiast clubs.O be patient and be professional & don't go out and start threating them,leave that upto your attorney.Remember you want to return the car and get the whole amount back or an undamged 330 i ( beautiful car though )
Later, Yasir

mb10175-

Hey you got a good case against them. First off Beverly Hills BMW and Santa Monica BMW are known to have the worst service. You went to them numerous times, they accepted responsibility but failed to complete.

If I were you, contact BMW NA and let them know whats going on. Then have a lawyer send Beverly Hills BMW, a certified letter, asking them to comply. When they deal with you they think they could probally get away by brushing you off, when a lawyer is involved it will keep them on their toes because they can be sued probally for "expectation damages + reliance damages + restitution" = $$$$$. I see a breach of contract here.

Dont waste time- Get a lawyer to send them a letter- have them fix your car right away or get a full refund (return car)- and teach them a good lesson not to mess with BMW owners.

Good luck

Originally posted by ken_vs_ryu
http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e46m3/forum.php?postid=4419838&page=1

im sure if you could get someone from BMWNA to read that and all the other various complaints about the dealership they would have to believe you.

it sucks to get screwed by the dealer, my dad bought a clk430 with the amg package three years ago, it was supposed to be a brand new car, that the owner of the dealership drove around for a few days (which was their explanation of why it had 350 miles). It turned out the car had been wrecked, fixed up, and then sold as a new car.

Thanks to all for advice. I sent a letter via the internet to BMW of NA. I am planning to go in on Monay at 6pm to speak with the service manager. I am demanding that the car be purchased back from me, as I do not want merchandice that has been previously compromised.

Bump! Hope you get this resolved to your satisfaction.

Send all letters via certified mail and keep copies.

i got fucked over too... mother fucking VOB sold me a 330ci covered with BONDO

so it made the resale price go down $8g.. :mad:

Originally posted by SUE ROVR
Send all letters via certified mail and keep copies.

Agreed. Don't count on 'internet' letters. It is easy to deny their receipt.

Originally posted by 91M5
Get yourself a lawyer. Sounds like that car has been in an accident. Go down the CPO checklist and find any item that should alerted them to the problem. Also, ask to see ALL the service records on the car. Any dealer can pull them up by using the VIN. Better yet, call another dealer and see if the service guy will pull up the history for you. It would be great if they showed it a body shop repair in that area. Show that to Beverly Hills and they will change their tune.

Wanted to reiterate this advice. Good luck.

Originally posted by dallasbboy
If the car was an official CPO car the dealer is obligated to disclouse any repairs that were done to the car.

Keep on pushing for them to foot the bill of the repair costs or refund your money completely.

Mentioning a lawyers name can expedite justice.

Just be sure to stay diplomatic with everything even though its very hard to in situations like these.

Brian

Brian is right. Be diplomatic. My M3 was not a CPO car and when I had an alignment done last year, they pried on my GC CC plates and gouged them, plus they bent my front strut towers. They did over 2500 in damage. At first, they tried to screw me over, but I took pics of the affected areas before I took the car in to get aligned since I just did my GC susp install. Once they saw my pics, they did everything I requested and paid for all of the damage and replaced all affected parts.

I contated BMW NA and they were very helpful. I mentioned that my instrument cluser was not functionaing properly and bought me a whole new M3 cluster. However, this was after I chewed them out (diplomatically). Since I took pics, I had airtight evidence that the car was not damaged before I took my car in for an alignment. I will never go to the $tealer again for repairs. I will learn myself with a Bentley manual!

I hope you get all of your money back. I would not want that car after what you described. You are paying hard-earned money for a BMW. The one you got is a POS. Get what you are paying for and accept nothing less.

I will post an update on monday on what the dealer says after I really go at them. If they do not comply with buying the car back, I will send a certified letter to BMW of NA. I will keep you guys updated through this whole process, and thanks again for all advice.

-Mike

The dealer is trying to blame the install of my conforti intake a few weeks after I bought the car for the damage. That is the stupidest shit I have ever heard. They also said that I mushroomed the shock tower and cracked the apron by hitting a pothole. So I said to them "If someone hits a pothole in theire new car it will cost them 7-10 grand?" and there reply "Thats a BMW for ya".

That is freaking stupid....

throw lawyers at them left and right

Went in there today, and had a little talk with the service manager who deals with the certification.

He tells me that there is no way that car would have been certified if the frame was damaged.

Well, They certified it with a screwed up alignment and with other problems.

He said that he is going to conduct an investigation and call me tomorrow. I told him that if this is not resolved to my satisfaction that I will take legal action.

I will keep you guys updated on this.

Also, got an email from BMW of NA, because they saw my post on the roadfly forums:

I'm with BMW of North America, LLC. I'm sorry your service/sales experience was not what you expected. We are here to work with you and your center. If you need our assistance, please respond to this email with your name and Vehicle Identification Number, if possible. If you prefer, you can phone us at (800) 831-1117 or email us through the Owners' Circle at www.bmwusa.com.

BMW NA Customer Relations


Till next post...

Keep us posted. Be very interesting if they can turn this whole bad experience around..

believe it or not BMW dealers buy and sell cars with previous damage on them, these are 2002-2004 models with a under 10k miles on them for the most parts

I've seen some 01 e46 m3's come through the bmw franchise dealer only auctions with 32k+ disclosed previous damages along with what was replaced

Then i'd see some with a disclosure saying that a panel was resprayed over.

They also buy lemon-law cars from there with their problems fixed for good prices.

My point i guess is even bmw dealerships will sell these crazy previously damaged vehicles, and i'm pretty sure they don't tell the consumer that one vehicle had like 39k in previous repairs, cuz i know sure as hell i wouldn't buy that for the price they want me to pay

I fail to see why you would buy a car you had reservations about in the first place?
They told you it would be fixed, but I think you went against your intuition as to what constituted a fair deal.
By that, I mean you probably felt uneasy, but went ahead anyway against better judgement.

I'm not castigating you. But it pays to go with your "gut feeling".

I understand the impulsiveness and anxiety in anticipation of getting a "new" car so sometimes things get overlooked.
After all it's a Bimmer. How could anything be wrong with a CPO?

Read about that guy from Seattle, i think, who went to Fla to buy an 88 E30 M3.
This guy was a true enthusiast who apparently knew what to look for.
There's a link to Roadfly somewhere in BFc archives.
Great story.

GL with this.

keep us updated with this .. id like to know wat happens

BTW
wheres can i get the paint reader thingy?? its this little machine that reads how much paint is on the car?? :dunno a salesguy at sterling pushed it all around my car and got numbers ... he said normal is 2.8-3.2 or something...

some parts on my car were 11.. 9.. 7.. jesus.. it was like a fucking lotto...


"Read about that guy from Seattle, i think, who went to Fla to buy an 88 E30 M3."
man that story had the crazyiest endin.. 2 cars welded together.. :eek:

Heck, BMW of Honolulu CPO'd a friends car that was crashed twice! The car was on the lot for almost a year, but it was gone a few months ago. I pity the person that bought that car.

Well, got a call from them today. Here is the info:

They are willing to purchase the car back from us...

but @ .30 per mile. I have put 6000 miles on it in 5 or so months.
That amounts to like 1800 bucks. They also said that if that is not satisfactory, that we could work something out. AKA, they are scared of me sueing them.

Anyway, I'd like your opinions on this? Do you think thats fair?

For my next car, price range is 30-35k. If anyone could help me find a stick 330 with all packages except nav and cold weather, or an M3 2000 and up, it would be greatly appreciated. For some reason, autotrader.com does not load for me.

I will you guys updated every time something significant happens, but pelase give me your take on the buy back agreement above. Thanks!

Go in for the kill. Sue them. Accept nothing less than whay you have invested so far. I would sue on general principal. They sold you a car that was supposedly a "CPO" car.

Because of your experience, I WILL NEVER buy a CPO car. BMW has done it and it's the last straw for me. I love my E36 M3, but I do not think I will ever buy a new BMW or a CPO car. However, I will buy another E36 M3 down the road. I love the E36 M cars!

Teach them a lesson, because these guys who sold you the car are nothing but a buch of crooks. Think of how many others have been screwed by these lame asses. Do it for the next guy that will get screwed; your lawsuit can set precedence and help protect people from fraud like this. My 2 cents.

Yeah, get them on false advertising.. Its gotta be illegal.

Bargain with them.
Tell them you think 30 cents/mi is too high.
Compare the amount of $ you have spent fixing this problem and tell them to subtract that amount from the $1800 you calculate
they would be due at the rate they quoted.
If you have spent nothing, then get them to decrease the rate of usage.
Say, 20 c/mi>
After all, you have had some use of the car and it will have depreciated somewhat.

Originally posted by Chongus
Because of your experience, I WILL NEVER buy a CPO car. BMW has done it and it's the last straw for me.

I've read so many CPO horror stories over the past year. CPO just doesn't seem to be worth it. Why pay a premium for a CPO car when you don't know what the dealer's inspectors missed?

This E46Fanatics.com member found out that his CPO 328i had been in not one, but two wrecks. After a lot of wrangling, he worked out a deal with BMW Canada to get out of the 328i and into an X5.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=20197

I guess if you still want to go CPO, you could ask to take the car to an independent mechanic for a pre-purchase inspection.

Could someone please run a CARFAX or AutoCheck on my car? When I purchased it, I believe it was clear- not sure what it is now...

VIN# WBABN53462JU39350

Good News!!!!! Very Happy- Will post all info tomorrow when transation is complete.

JUst wondering what the results were?? HOpe everything worked out!!

Beverly Hills BMW took the car back in good faith. They gave me back the exact amount that I paid for the car, including tax and registration, and I am very happy with the refund. I don't think that they knew about the frame damage, but it surprises me that the whacked out front end allowed the car to complete used car certification.

Today I purchased a 2003 330ci 5speed, premium, sport, xenons, harmon kardon, heated seats, 18" styling 72 rims, and a 6 disc cd changer with 1500 miles. Bought it from Center BMW in Sherman Oaks for around 40 grand.

I love the car, I just need to learn how to drive stick.... I have stalled it over 20 times today.... My worst fear is starting off on a hill and rolling back and hitting someone. Anyway, I will get better with time.

Thank you to everyone who responded to my initial post- your suggestions and advice have landed me where I am today, rid of that certified wreck, and in a nice new beautiful car.

I will post pics of the new ride soon!

Thanks again to everyone, and remember that threatening to sue will get you whats right if you are right about the situation. Justice is served.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Glad to hear the dealer made things right.

Glad things worked out for you. I know how the threatening to sue is because I have been in that position with many dealerships and other businesses unrelated to cars. What happen to good customer service and companies standing behind the product???

It really sucks how companies don't understand that "the customer is always right". Thats business for ya...

It really sucks how companies don't understand that "the customer is always right". Thats business for ya...

if they knew about the problem within a month, by law there should be a time frame that problems with a vehicle you can take it back to the dealer. since they knew about it, i'd call the Used Car Sales Manager, then the GM. Then your lawyer if that hasnt got straightend out yet.

CARFAX searched more than 2.7 billion records from over 5,300 sources and found 8 record(s) for this 2002 BMW 330CI (WBABN53462JU39350).

Date:
Mileage Reading:
Source:
General Comments:


02/01/2002 New Jersey
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Montvale, NJ
Registered as
corporate fleet vehicle


02/21/2002 US Customs
Vehicle imported to
Newark, NJ


02/28/2002 10 New Jersey
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Montvale, NJ
Title #OK20020590164
Title issued
First owner reported


05/21/2003 27,378 Auto Auction
Sold at auction
in Eastern Region
Listed as
a manufacturer vehicle


06/03/2003 27,389 California
Inspection Station
Beverly Hills, CA


06/03/2003 California
Inspection Station
Beverly Hills, CA


06/03/2003 27,397 California
Inspection Station
Beverly Hills, CA
Passed emissions inspection


07/17/2003 27,411 California
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Los Angeles, CA
Title issued
New owner reported


Estimated Owners: Date: Location:
1st owner 02/28/2002 New Jersey
2nd owner 07/17/2003 California

02/28/2002 10
05/21/2003 27,378
06/03/2003 27,389
06/03/2003 27,397
07/17/2003 27,411