There are four parts to this conspiracy theory:

1. Juan Montoya and Jeff Gordon get together for "Tradin' Paint" on SpeedTV where JPM and Gordon swap cars for some laps around Indy Motor Speedway. Seems like a harmless publicity stunt to urge Americans to watch the USGP.

2. With only a morning warm-up and a few laps of 10/10ths driving, Jeff Gordon scores lap times within seconds of JPM (who also drove his car earlier in the day under the same conditions, fuel load, etc). Speed doesn't give exact times for each driver. Why could this be?

3. A few short months after JPM announces that he will be going to McLaren-Mercedes.

4. ???

I know what the first thing you're going to say is, "But Jeff Gordon makes more in NASCAR than he ever will in F1." So I pose this question for you...

Would you rather race in F1 and make a million dollars a year (we all know Gordon would make a hell of a lot more than that in reality) or race in NASCAR and make twenty million dollars a year?

Now, Jeff already has a huge bank account with his salary, winnings, and sponsorship (ie. Pepsi). What does he need another $30 million dollars for? He's already proven that he can decimate everyone else in NASCAR. He's shown that he can win on ovals or on the Winston Cup road courses. So I pose the question for you again...

If you had the chance to drive a F1 car (the best, most compeditive racing series in the world) and you had to take a small pay cut (in hopes of being known as the best driver in the world bar-none) would you do it?

You'd have to be a FOOL not to...when you're as rich as they are, the money doesn't matter any more. It's the glory. If Gordon had any sense he'd be trying to get into F1 with all his heart. So, I guess that's what I'm hoping will happen...it's a nice dream, wouldn't you say?

-Prince

I'm going to make a small addition that I omitted when writing this all. Despite how amazing F1 drivers are, I'm going to have to say that I think WRC drivers, in all honesty, are THE BEST drivers in the world.

They drive on ice, snow, dirt, gravel, tarmac, wet, dry, cold, warm...they are the postal service of racing, but FAST. You just can't beat these guys and the Michelin Race of Champions shows this year after year with most of the rally drivers really doing the best. But anyways...back to the topic at hand...

I think the chances of Gordon going to F1 are less than zero. Think of it this way... Jeff has an amazing reputation in NASCAR. He's won everything. Why in the hell would he want to risk getting pasted in F1 by some unknown foreign driver? Also, F1 team owners are not geeky fan boys. They don't have stars in their eyes for ANY driver, and will not hire anyone based only on how much media coverage it would get them (well, maybe Eddie Jordan would). Which of the top three teams would want to take a HUGE chance on someone who has unproven abilities in an F1 car? Not a single one.

More than likely, I think you'll see Mark Webber or Jenson Button in a Williams in 2005. Even Jacques Villeneuve has more of a chance than Jeff Gordon.

I know there's no chance of it...that's why I called it my "conspiracy theory"...

Why in the hell would he want to risk getting pasted in F1 by some unknown foreign driver?

Because he's a VERY compedetive driver and to put it succintly, I'd rather be a mediocre F1 driver than the best NASCAR driver. What about you?

Which of the top three teams would want to take a HUGE chance on someone who has unproven abilities in an F1 car?

Oh, he's proven he can drive an F1 car fast. He did that on the Tradin' Paint special. And as for "with other cars around him"...tell me another race where there's more cars around you than in NASCAR. Hell, Gordon was supposed to be slated for CART driving but due to some unforseen monitary problems ... he went to NASCAR.

I think we're more likely to see Webber or Button (or hopefully someone a little better) as well, but it's nice to dream of a win win for Williams, F1, and US F1 driving.

-Prince

i saw that trading paint special, it was awesome, and gordon did amazing in the williams car... i think its hard for any of us to judge wether he would do that or not without actually knowing him. none of us know what he really feels... for all we know he may have an attachment to NASCAR that he doesnt want to break, and for all we know he may be dreaming of getting into F1.... what owner would risk signing him? this isnt secret santa, you dont throw a driver in the bag then grab another one and thats what youre stuck with... drivers from all different series of racing get offered test drives by F1 teams, thats how they choose who to have drive, and if a team saw potential in Gordon, which im sure they have, they would invite him for a test drive, which im sure they have, and he would either accept or refuse... i would love to see Gordon in an F1 car, i think he would bring more fans to the sport...

rally drivers are awesome, definately some of the best drivers in the world, but i read an interview with JPM and a fan asked him what he thought of rally driving, and he said it was ok and that it wasnt really his style...

different drivers like to do different things with cars... F1 drivers like to see how quickly they can lap a track and constantly try to beat those times... rally drivers like to go from point A to point B and not let anything get in there way--- that means ANYTHING ;).... endurance drivers like to see how long they can have a car hold up and set a rythem for themselves... the list goes on, to say that one driver is better is ridiculous--- on what venue could you compare them that would be equal? its liking have a chemist and a physicist battle for whos smarter... theres no equal ground to compare them on

Originally posted by MontoyaWannaBe
i saw that trading paint special, it was awesome, and gordon did amazing in the williams car... i think its hard for any of us to judge wether he would do that or not without actually knowing him. none of us know what he really feels... for all we know he may have an attachment to NASCAR that he doesnt want to break, and for all we know he may be dreaming of getting into F1.... what owner would risk signing him? this isnt secret santa, you dont throw a driver in the bag then grab another one and thats what youre stuck with... drivers from all different series of racing get offered test drives by F1 teams, thats how they choose who to have drive, and if a team saw potential in Gordon, which im sure they have, they would invite him for a test drive, which im sure they have, and he would either accept or refuse... i would love to see Gordon in an F1 car, i think he would bring more fans to the sport...

rally drivers are awesome, definately some of the best drivers in the world, but i read an interview with JPM and a fan asked him what he thought of rally driving, and he said it was ok and that it wasnt really his style...

different drivers like to do different things with cars... F1 drivers like to see how quickly they can lap a track and constantly try to beat those times... rally drivers like to go from point A to point B and not let anything get in there way--- that means ANYTHING ;).... endurance drivers like to see how long they can have a car hold up and set a rythem for themselves... the list goes on, to say that one driver is better is ridiculous--- on what venue could you compare them that would be equal? its liking have a chemist and a physicist battle for whos smarter... theres no equal ground to compare them on

That's why there is the Michelin Race of Champions which is a standard set of racing in prepared cars and motorcycles. Each country sends 3 people to compete. They have rally style (tarmac), off-road style (WRC), and motocross events which drivers race against each other. Up until 1999 only WRC drivers were allowed in, but for the last 4 years F1, Moto-X, ALMS, etc have all been in it. Names like Gordon and Said from the US as well as other NASCAR and GT racing personalities. (Personally, I'd like to see a team of Gordon and Auberlein on the cars, don't care who's on the moto-x side).

I think this past year DeMatta and his team won. Not 100% sure though.

-Prince

who makes more ? Schumacher or Gordon ?

I thought I read somewhere Schumi was the highest paid athlete in the world, or whatever you want to call it

jeff

Shumi has the highest salary...it's tough to say who makes the most in endorsements as I've never seen Schumi's endorsement numbers reported. I'm sure they're out there somewhere.

Originally posted by PrinceE30
I think this past year DeMatta and his team won. Not 100% sure though.

Actually, this past year, Jeff Gordon, Jimmie Johnson, and Colin Edwards brought home the team competiton (Nation's Cup) for the USA!

Marcus Gronholm won the individual Michelin ROC.

Edit: Nevermind, the 2003 Competition was just held at the end of November. DeMatta and the "allstar" team won the Nation's Cup. Sebastion Loeb won the Michelin ROC.

Also, F1 team owners are not geeky fan boys. They don't have stars in their eyes for ANY driver, and will not hire anyone based only on how much media coverage it would get them (well, maybe Eddie Jordan would). Which of the top three teams would want to take a HUGE chance on someone who has unproven abilities in an F1 car?

I dunno, getting an American NASCAR star into F1 would immediately gain them tons of TV viewers (cha-ching) and attendance at Indy would go up a LOT if an American as well-known as Gordon was in F1.

I hope Webber is the one they pick, he just needs the right car and he can be champion. I think he's got some skillz.
Button has a great chance to be the man at BAR so he should stay there.

Schumi is actually the highest paid athlete in the world (with endorsements) ~$80 mil. Tiger is right behind him.

As far as Gordon in F1. The snobs I don't think would be having it, although the manufacturers desperately want more presence here.

Originally posted by kaiservon
As far as Gordon in F1. The snobs I don't think would be having it, although the manufacturers desperately want more presence here.

what about the budweiser sponsorship...

i think that was a big first step

jeff

Actually, I remember being very impressed by Gordon's drive during the 'tradin paint' session. However, thinking about it it seems like Gordon's timing with the FW24 was amped up and sensationalized by the commentator and was nothing special, leave alone F1 driver calibre.

IIRC, Gordon's time during the 'tradin paint' was a second or so off the previous year's 107 % at Indy. That means he would not have been able to make the '02 Indy grid. Considering that the average lap times between P1 and P20 are usually in the 2 ~ 3 second range, Gordon was almost 3 seconds off the Ferrari/Williams/McLaren pace. Now if you will only look at test timings you will see that almost all third drivers, not to mention the F3000 hopefuls, routinely lap within a second or so off the pace of the top guys such as MS, RS and JPM.

For instance, Nico Rosberg who tested for Williams this week and has had pretty much negligible time in an F1 car was running less than 1.8 seconds off Ralf's best time for the day (1'19"544 as compared to 1'17"785). This is not an exception, and most top F3000/F3 drivers routinely test in this range and it's getting the last 1 second that separates the 20 that land a F1 drive from the rest. Hence while Jeff Gordon is one of the best drivers in NASCAR, I doubt whether he even comes close to being a serious contender in F1. That 'tradin paint' thing was purely a marketing gimmick, and has no relevance to anything, leave alone landing a ride in F1.

That said, JG with his money, can probably 'buy' a ride with Jaguar :). The whores!!!! :eyes1

Originally posted by M3Buff
Considering that the average lap times between P1 and P20 are usually in the 2 ~ 3 second range, Gordon was almost 3 seconds off the Ferrari/Williams/McLaren pace. Now if you will only look at test timings you will see that almost all third drivers, not to mention the F3000 hopefuls, routinely lap within a second or so off the pace of the top guys such as MS, RS and JPM.

No offense, but those F3000 drivers don't jump in the car for a couple of laps and instantly run laptimes almost as fast as F1 drivers. They run a lot more laps than Gordon had the pleasure of running...and these are kids who are in open wheel, high downforce cars multiple times a week. Getting into a totally new environment and instantly running laptimes as fast as he ran is an amazing feat. The # of laps that Gordon actually ran at speed would normally be considered shake down laps to be run at 5-6 tenths in order to get used to the steering, pedals, shifting, motor, etc.

Even slow open wheel cars like I drive would take at least 30+ laps to get accustomed to running at 9/10ths for drivers who aren't accustomed to such cars. Getting accustomed to using and taking advantage of downforce is not something easily learned. The amount of grip a car has at the beginning of a braking zone is significantly more than the end, and contrary to what your brain tells you, the faster you are going, the faster you can corner.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by M3Buff
[B]IIRC, Gordon's time during the 'tradin paint' was a second or so off the previous year's 107 % at Indy. That means he would not have been able to make the '02 Indy grid. Considering that the average lap times between P1 and P20 are usually in the 2 ~ 3 second range, Gordon was almost 3 seconds off the Ferrari/Williams/McLaren pace. Now if you will only look at test timings you will see that almost all third drivers, not to mention the F3000 hopefuls, routinely lap within a second or so off the pace of the top guys such as MS, RS and JPM.

That was just sandbagging, I think if Montoya had done a real fast lap, like a qualifying lap, the difference between his tima an Gordon's would be much more....
Gordon got up to a second off the 2002 107% time, that would be 4-5 seconds from pole. Those four seconds take a long time to get down to say one second off from pole, more than a year of heavy practice. And the last second is almost impossible to shave off if you have never driven single seaters before, with sequential gearboxes, aerodynamics, rain, NO YELLOW FLAGS, etc.
That is why no american has been able to get to grips with F1, there is no similar formula or stepping ladder, like Formula 3, f3000.
Nascar and Indycar just cater to american TV, yellow flags and left turn only don't get too much tv time overseas.....people get bored and ask why some driver has a 20 second lead, and then a yellow flag gets every one bunched together again, how can you be a good driver if you rely on yellow flags to get close to the leader......

Originally posted by Yonkers320is
That is why no american has been able to get to grips with F1, there is no similar formula or stepping ladder, like Formula 3, f3000.

Umm, Formula Atlantic to CART to F1.

CART to F1 seemed to work ok for Montoya.

F3000 cars are actually very disimilar to F1 cars. Drivers constantly comment about the differences between the cars and that it's not a transition of simply going faster, but of learning to drive a different style as well.

The problem with the U.S. is that we have TOO MANY rungs at the bottom of the ladder. Adding FBMW isn't going to help. SCCA and CART have been working together to attempt to provide some sort of ladder system from karting all the way to CART.

It doesn't matter so much that the U.S. lacks a ladder system anyway right now, as any kid with aspirations of F1 glory will head to Europe at any early age anyway. That's where all the teams, scouts, and tracks are. It matters very little what sort of ladder system we have here in the States if there's no team here to watch the kid progress.

If you have the knack for driving fast (and Gordon surely does), then I think the transition would be easy. Granted, getting used to 10/10ths driving would take perhaps an entire season to do, but for someone as compedetive as Gordon, I don't think this would be a problem at all for him. I think some of you are missing my point...

Gordon is fast in anything on wheels. He showed it on NASCAR. He showed that he can come close to F1 times in "Tradin' Paint". Given more time IN CAR I'm sure he could put up times as good as those of Jaguar, Honda, Toyota, and other middle-of-the-pack teams.

Speaking as someone who's done a fair bit of car racing (and will contiune for a long time in the future), I can say that in any situation, a driver only needs in car practice to be as consistant as in any previous car. Gordon HAS THE TALENT. Winston Cup showed this. ROC Nations Cup showed this. His pre-NASCAR racing history shows this. Just give him time in an FW25 and he'll shine. It's in his nature.

Open wheel. NASCAR. Whatever. A good driver is a good driver. (granted, i still don't think it'll happen, but so what, this is forum-talk :))

-Prince

Sure, JG is a talented driver but this doesn't mean he can simply hop into an F1 car and be competitive. You are overlooking the fact that drivers spend their whole lives learning how to drive a certain type of car and, even if they are very talented, can't simply get into another type of car and be competitive. Barrichello is a very talented driver, so do you think that he will be able to make up the few tenths/lap which he usually trails his teammate by? No. The point is that even though JG is talented, he's no where near good enough to ever race in F1. Many people would argue Schumacher is the greatest driver in the world. Do you think that he could run up front in the WRC? Again, no-talent in motorsports is not as universal as you make it out to be.

Sure, JG is a talented driver but this doesn't mean he can simply hop into an F1 car and be competitive. You are overlooking the fact that drivers spend their whole lives learning how to drive a certain type of car and, even if they are very talented, can't simply get into another type of car and be competitive. Barrichello is a very talented driver, so do you think that he will be able to make up the few tenths/lap which he usually trails his teammate by? No. The point is that even though JG is talented, he's no where near good enough to ever race in F1. Many people would argue Schumacher is the greatest driver in the world. Do you think that he could run up front in the WRC? Again, no-talent in motorsports is not as universal as you make it out to be.

Originally posted by nsk223
Sure, JG is a talented driver but this doesn't mean he can simply hop into an F1 car and be competitive. You are overlooking the fact that drivers spend their whole lives learning how to drive a certain type of car and, even if they are very talented, can't simply get into another type of car and be competitive. Barrichello is a very talented driver, so do you think that he will be able to make up the few tenths/lap which he usually trails his teammate by? No. The point is that even though JG is talented, he's no where near good enough to ever race in F1. Many people would argue Schumacher is the greatest driver in the world. Do you think that he could run up front in the WRC? Again, no-talent in motorsports is not as universal as you make it out to be.

In the same way I say he would be good, you say he wouldn't. We disagree and there's no way to prove either way unless he actually did get to be an F1 driver. However, you can't deny he was rather good in the FW24. He picked up on the, "the faster you go the more you stick" within the few laps that he did and that's pretty amazing in my book.

And as a side note: JG DID start in open wheel cars before he went to Stock-style cars. I've read in a few places that he was slated for a CART driving spot, but because of the financial issues of the league at the time JG went into Busch series racing...

-Prince

Who cares? Ferrari will win again next year no matter who williams has.

Originally posted by SUE ROVR
Who cares? Ferrari will win again next year no matter who williams has.

It's amazing how clueless some people remain...

Rubins is scared of Williams and Michelin.

Schumy is scared of Williams and Michelin.

The prancing pony is about to be shot.

:)

-Prince

Schumy is scared of Williams and Michelin.

Yeah sure, why the hell not...believe what you will...:rolleyes:

Bridgestone worried sick about Michelin would probably be a better way of putting it.

Actually, for '04 if Ferrari/MS need to be worried about anything, I'd say it's the Kimi/MP4-19 combo. The car has been incredible in testing, breaking both circuit records(Valencia and Jerez?)...and this is with 3 more months of testing to go. Considering what Kimi was able to achieve with the seriously underperforming MP4-17D(compared to the F2003 and the FW25), just the thought of the 04 season with Kimi in the new car is making me drool. :redspot

McLaren still only has Kimi to look out for (unless DC figures out how to quality in the new format). However, both Montoya and Schumacher have been dominant in their cars towards the 2nd half of the season last year (I know, I know, Schumacher had poorer stats that Montoya, but I'm sure he's poised this year for a better performance).

Williams is far ahead of schedule in one area that is going to matter most in the upcoming season, reliability. BMW has always been great in this respect and with the problems of the MP4-18 (reliability), it should be intersting how the MP4-19 turns out.

I just don't see McLaren in the position they were in last year. Just a feeling, that's all.

-Prince

I don't think Jeff does make more in NASCAR than he could in F1. He could keep owning his NASCAR team and he could probably get an F1 salary of about $10 mill. a year considering the American sponsorship that would jump up. He makes no where close to $10 mill. a year for simply driving now.

I think that the real question here is why JPM isn't driving in NASCAR yet. I mean, he could hit people and no one would care. Perfect!

Sounds like someone's a bit bitter with his gutsy on-track moves...

-Prince

Hey guys what about the new Williams it was setting amazing times in testing and they are over a month ahead of where they were last year in testing.

Just a little FWIW. Bernie Eclestone was once asked if he felt any NASCAR drivers could make it in F1. His answer, "Jeff Gordon."

aha!

another thing to consider is... Gordon was close to 107% in a williams, so not only was he outside the qualifiying time by a few seconds, but he was in one of the best cars. not a minari or a mid pack car which would definintely make him even slower. just some more food for thought.


-Jeff

Wassup Randy!! You missed a really cool Winter Blaze this year.


Jeff Gordon got his start in quarter midget cars, power to weight ratio that rivals Winston cup cars, on Dirt! When he was 8 he won every event he entered. When he was 13 he was winning championships in 650hp sprinter cars ON DIRT.

IF anyone in Nascar were to compete in F1, I'd say Gordon would do the best, he's been doing well in Nascar for so long that more people hate him than love him. Plus he'd bring alot of attention from American fans and could possibly be the catalyst for a second GP in America (can we say Vegas).

So how's the job going, still in Atl. ?

John

Mmmmm....Vegas GP would fucking roxor my boxors...

Work in Atl is great. Got a nice apartment and saving up for a battered E30 M3 to fix up or something.

How goes all the misfits down in Valdosta? Keeping them all in check? :)

-Prince

Originally posted by mcoupejeff
another thing to consider is... Gordon was close to 107% in a williams, so not only was he outside the qualifiying time by a few seconds, but he was in one of the best cars. not a minari or a mid pack car which would definintely make him even slower. just some more food for thought.


-Jeff

Haha, how can you even seriously say that? He had like 6 laps in the damn thing and it wasn't even setup for him! You gotta be kidding.. he WAS inside Q-range, and to accomplish that in so few laps having never even been in an F3000 or anything like that is just awesome. I'd love to see Gordon try his hand at F1.

Originally posted by Alex McHenry
Haha, how can you even seriously say that? He had like 6 laps in the damn thing and it wasn't even setup for him! You gotta be kidding.. he WAS inside Q-range, and to accomplish that in so few laps having never even been in an F3000 or anything like that is just awesome. I'd love to see Gordon try his hand at F1.

Great minds think alike...:cool:

-Prince

Originally posted by PrinceE30
Great minds think alike...:cool:

-Prince

People often underestimate the driving talent of Cup drivers. I am most definitely of the opinion that it is not the most interesting form of motorsports, but many of the drivers are extremely talented. Anyone who deals with rubbing, bumping, and drafting at 200+ for hours on end in a 3500lb sled with minimal downforce has got my respect. And Gordon is easily one of the most talented in the bunch in terms of road racing.. I applaud his performance in the FW24.

i am completely aware that the car was not set up for him, and i agree it would be great to see him there, im just simply saying than another random car from another team would have been more than likely slower. I thnk you were missing my point, im not saying i dont think hes great. I would love to see him go F1 and i do think with some work he could do it. will he? prob. not. but its nice to dream.

Originally posted by mcoupejeff
i am completely aware that the car was not set up for him, and i agree it would be great to see him there, im just simply saying than another random car from another team would have been more than likely slower.

Since most cars other than (an equivilant model of) the FW24 were slower, that's a rather obvious statement. But if you matched up MS to a Minardi, I'm sure he would be killed every GP weekend...:az:

-Prince

Jeff, didn't mean to be confrontational.. sorry. Anyway, i dont think that he would have been slower in a slower car, because the slower cars are slower at the limits, while Gordon was certainly driving 8-9/10ths. Perhaps the FW24 was easier to drive at that pace, but at that pace the slower cars should be almost as fast..