hey guys,

I've been thinking lately about getting an E30 M, possibly in the future. Just as a 'fun' project car. I know prices for E30 M's parts and labor and yadda yadda yadda are extremely high. So I was wondering if you guys could possibly list how much money you've put into your ///M's? :) And your mods? And what you've fixed since you've gotten the car?

My bro in law used to have an E30 M, so he might go up with me on it, but I dunno. - I just kinda want a project car to work on, as my E46 is my daily driver. :rolleyes:

Thanks!

Now u really sound like my type of girl... ;) I actually always wondered the same thing... anyone????

They are sort of expenisve. Now a days they are getting more costly due to the fact that there aren't many around. I haven't spent any money on mine yet, except a tank of gas, but the parts can be pretty pricy. I bought mine for 11.5 though.

Sorry I can't answer your question because I've only had the car for 2 weeks. Faux evo, what about you?

I have a few things that I need to fix like a broken
wiper relay - $35
Cracked fog lights - ?
Cracked Ellipsoid - ?

That is really all that needs replacing, my interior needs some new leather on the bolster, but it runs very well!

Originally posted by Stylin
Now u really sound like my type of girl... ;) I actually always wondered the same thing... anyone????

LOL, I like cars, what can I say? :)



Originally posted by Bry
They are sort of expenisve. Now a days they are getting more costly due to the fact that there aren't many around. I haven't spent any money on mine yet, except a tank of gas, but the parts can be pretty pricy. I bought mine for 11.5 though.

Sorry I can't answer your question because I've only had the car for 2 weeks. Faux evo, what about you?

I have a few things that I need to fix like a broken
wiper relay - $35
Cracked fog lights - ?
Cracked Ellipsoid - ?

That is really all that needs replacing, my interior needs some new leather on the bolster, but it runs very well!

Well, that doesn't sound too bad then. - I was just curious about how BAD it can get sometimes, money wise. Actually now that I think about it, would it be hard to do maintence and stuff on it yourself? Like manual things like changing gaskets and er, yeah blah blah blah.

I wouldn't mind investing in an engine crane/holder thingie and gettin dirty :)

Oh yeah, would it be a waste to get the 4 cylinder to get as powerful as possible? Or would it just be easier to drop in an E36 M engine? I'm just thinking maintence wise too, I know 4 cyl part are expensive. eek :eek:

If you are going to buy an E30 M3, and drop a 6 in, you should just buy a regular 3 series, and save yourself a lot of money.

I am a purist when it comes to E30 M3's and I really don't like the six conversions (no offence Faux, you have a reason because the motor was messed up). Maybe if you find an e30 m3 with a blown motor, the cheapest route for more torque is an e30 with a six cyl m3 drop in.

The E30 M3's are a simple car, since its OBD 1 and it really helps if you buy the cd, it tells you everything you need to know about the E30 M3. The 4-cyl is a very good motor, and can be converted to a 2.5L (expensive), and it can have some mods done to it. Superchargers and Turbos don't work well with the S14 motor, but its a pretty easy motor to work with.

Hmmm, I think if I were to get an M, i'd build up the engine, seeing as how E36 M engines are like a lot bigger and 2 more cyl's to maintence.. hmm.. Well yeah, i'd like to have an E30 M as a project car :)

Kind of like a go-cart.. but better. lol. :stickoutt

You may want to ask Cone from the DTMPower forum...he has an E30 ///M...he told me that his ///M's habit of burning a hole in his wallet is what's keeping him living @ home:stickoutt
I'm hoping he'll sell it to me when he can no longer afford to keep it up...;)

Originally posted by Flee67


I'm hoping he'll sell it to me when he can no longer afford to keep it up...;)

lol good luck, btw, who installed your RD sways? I just noticed that :embarrasm

Hey 325girl,

Take a look at my ad under cars for sale or look up Alpina. I have a very unique E30 Hot rod that has E36 M3 like acceleration and sound for less money than an E30 M3. It is not an M but e30 Alpinas are very rare and a lot of fun. i purposely took the badging off as I like the sleeper look buy it is the real deal with proper documentation.

Here is a photo of the car;

Don,

Where's the ad? I couldn't seem to find it. I might be in the market for a nice E30, and I like what I see.

How much are you asking, how many miles, etc.? Was the car sold originally in the USA (in other words, will I be able to register it here in CA)?

Thanks,

Chris

Cannon,

Here is the ad. I put it on this board a month ago but it must have dropped off.

Regarding your question about being California legal. Absolutely. In fact, this car started life as a US car and thus has a 325 serial number. As far as the insurance company and the DOT are concerned it is a 121 HP eta. This will save any prospective owners some big bucks. I pay $900 per year in insurance.

Also, I had a CAT put on this car to pass local emission tests and it passed no sweat. I don't have the sheet at my fingertips but it should pass your local emisssions no sweat. What are you HC and Co limits at idle?

E30 Alpina C2 2.7 FOR SALE

This is a very rare animal and one of only three confirmed in the US. Serial Number 0105 built on a 1986 US chassis in 1988 by Miller and Norburn with complete documentation. Alpina factory 2.7litre engine (serial number C2/1-6484) 210HP, custom forged crank, custom Mahle light weight pistons, big valve head with Schrick 272 cam and recent rebuild by Korman. SS headers, custom 2 in 2 out high flow cat, B&B Rear muffler. Bilstein sport shocks all around with very low Intrax progressive springs and special Alpina sway bars. 11.7” floating rotor slotted front brakes with E400 calipers, Carbotech pads, and ABS. US spec 5 sp. with short shift and 4:10 LSD Diff. Two sets of 16” wheels. AZEV 16”x7” 5 spokes with Yoko 0532 205/50 and 225/50 street tires plus, an extra set of 7” front and 8” rear Alpina wheels in fair condition is included. Factory sport seats (Natur color vinyl) with Schroth four point harnesses and Autopower roll bar. VDO Oil pressure and Oil Temp gauges. 18 month old pristine Cosmos Blau paint. 84500 original miles with complete meticulous service documentation. Amsoil synthetics throughout. This car is located in Clearwater FL (and has been since built), is very quick, very solid, needs nothing, can be driven anywhere, and can be a perfect driver/track car as she sits. Could be a potent club racer with only minor safety mods. Asking $9,950.00. OBO. Will deliver to eastern US or Canada. Don Stevens, 727-796-9897, p911sc44@hotmail.com.

http://members.tripod.co.uk/bmw325/gallery/alpina.jpg

Attached is a photo with the Azevs.

Don

Now, this is a debate I've gone through recently myself. In reality, I (almost...) wish I would have gone and bought an E30 M3 instead of my 325is as a track car.

The E30 M3 is such a pure track car right out of the box, and the S14 engine is quite solid, providing it is well maintained. There is a reason most Club Racers use the M3 as their race car.

As it stands, I'm quite happy with my car. But as to taking out the S14 engine and putting in a 6 cyl (even the M3 six), I'd have to recommend against it. The E30 M3 has a 4.10 rear end, which would end up being way too short for the bigger, slower revving 6 cyl. Besides, there is a certain amount of fun in keeping the revs high when cutting around the track in the M3. It just sounds and *feels* more like a race car....

Pat

how is this for a project e30 m3?

<img src="http://www.mindspring.com/~mark_sinclair/wreck1.jpg">

<img src="http://www.mindspring.com/~mark_sinclair/wreck2.jpg">

<img src="http://www.mindspring.com/~mark_sinclair/wreck3.jpg">

i pulled the fenders and the hood off the car this weekend and it does not look as bad. crushed sheet metal is deceiving sometimes until you look behind it. don't get me wrong, the car is definitely hurt. i am just not sure how bad yet. i have to keep pulling it apart to see.

bry,
my motor was running very strong when i pulled it out of my silver m3. i just wanted more power for the lovely nj highways where nobody allows you to pull out. i love the s14, but it is not enough for me even in 2.5 spec. i have owned quite a few of these cars, one with a heavily modded s14, and the conversion has been the best one yet. i let a few purists drive the car at sigfest and turned them into believers. would i molest an excellent condition car, no. my car had some mileage(114k) and paintwork making it a perfect candidate. if the car above can be turned back into a streetable vehicle, who knows what kind of motor it will get. i am definitely selling the s14 though. it's heavily modded and has about 80k miles on it. obviously too fast for the previous owner to handle.

mark

here are some more pics of the wreck:

<img src="http://www.mindspring.com/~mark_sinclair/wreck5.jpg">

<img src="http://www.mindspring.com/~mark_sinclair/wreck6.jpg">


pretzel anyone?
<img src="http://www.mindspring.com/~mark_sinclair/wreck7.jpg">

Ahh, that is your henna car, I see.

What happened? Is the motor still in working order? What mods does it have?

Good luck with the fixing up!

I like the picture of the stress bar, its all bent up. I think that it did its job!

wow, now thats a project car.. :eek:

i think the front end would have been worse off if the stress bar wasn't there. it seems to have really helped the frontend survive. i'll keep you all posted as i learn more.

bry,
the motor apparently has an evo 2 cam, larger intakes, software, and headwork. i have to check with my mechanic to be sure about it though. he did the work back in 1996. that was the last time it was on the road. the guy parked it in a pole after leaving the shop. that sucks!!!

mark

just curious, but where did you find this wrecked M?

I believe it was given to him because the guy who wrecked it couldn't sell it. Faux how much would you be selling that S14 for?

Originally posted by Vok
I believe it was given to him because the guy who wrecked it couldn't sell it. Faux how much would you be selling that S14 for?

originally, the guy was gonna sell it. then one of his cousins wanted it and the car sat for a while. i was going to buy it and then the cousin wanted it all of the sudden again. he never picked it up, and 8 months later i got the call. he said if i got it out of the driveway by the end of the week, i could have it. it was gone within a day or so.

i am not sure how much i am going to sell the motor for yet. i want to see what its got internally and make sure that it runs smoothly. i wouldn't want to sell someone a beat motor. i was told it still ran, but who knows. i'll keep you guys posted. for reference i sold my last motor with 114k miles for $3000 because i was desperate for cash. this will not be that ceap if all is well with it. it's only got about 80k miles and a bunch of custom work.


mark

i just realized that i never answered your original question about maintaining an e30 m3. it all depends on the car you buy. if it has signs of being of ragged on(most do) you can expect a timing chain at 100k miles if it wasn't done already. valve adjustments are best left to professionals due to there complexity. a lot of cars nowadays are showing some signs of electrical trouble with the cluster. most times this a battery on the si board. it is a pretty straight forward fix if you are mechanically inclined. i highly recommend joing the e30 m3 sig at www.bimmers.com and getting a copy of the koala motorsport e30 m3 cd. brett did a great job going over most procedures with pictures and text. e30 m3's tend to be expensive to maintain, but most people love them like their children and are willing to sacrifice their wallet to keep it alive. i just sold one of mine(white 1990) to a friend and he is already feeling the crunch to fix an oil leak it has. this car was babied(74k miles) and still requires some help with it's tempermental motor. good luck and beware of cheaply priced cars. with an e30 m3, you get what you pay for.

mark

Originally posted by Mark S.
with an e30 m3, you get what you pay for.

mark

Exactly.

If you can find a decent (not great) condition, high mileage E30 M3, then BY ALL MEANS, do the E36 engine swap. It is very straightforward. Barry at bimmerworld and I were talking this past weekend at a friend's wedding. He said that he is selling his E30 M3 racecar in parts and buying a high-mileage E30 M3. Then he will put in an E36 M3 (S50 or S52) engine right out of a wreck. That's 240HP and 225lb-ft of torque WITHOUT A SINGLE MODIFICATION. That amount of power and/or torque from a 2.5L S14 engine would cost about $10k in parts and tuning, and you have to provide your own engine. A wrecked E36 M3 (get 1995/96 OBD-1 preferrably) goes for well under $8k. You get the motor, tranny, brain, exhaust, and a bunch of parts to re-sell. You can even get $3500+ for an old, tired engine and transmission, exhaust, brain, wiring, etc. Those S14 are worth a lot these days. Popular upgrade for 2002 owners. The S50 all fits right into the E30 with little modification. Even the AC fits with a little modification.

Check out Project Orca at http://www.zionsvilleautosport.com for full details.

Then, when you get more money, send the engine to Charles Stickley, B-Mod BMW CCA Club Racer extrordinaire. His M3 CSL has a 3.2L S50 with US intake and cylinder head. With his engine work, he is pumping out about 380HP!! That's with cams, pistons, head work, etc. His exhaust is VERY quiet, too. That motor has 1.5 seasons on it and only has 2% leakdown. That's amazing. Watching this guy at Summit Point a few weeks ago really made my jaw drop. He would be behind a "slow" car exiting a turn, dive to the inside, punch it, and be past them faster than I thought possible, even on the short uphill straight between turns 9 and 10!!

The S50 engine is simply bigger. "There's no replacement for displacement" is a true statement when comparing the S14 to the S50. If you want more power than that from a naturally aspirated engine, you have to go with a Euro 3.8L S38 engine from a 1995 M5. That's 340HP stock, over 420HP in full mod trim. Good luck, though. The S38 does not fit well at all, requiring LOTS of modifications, and a used engine alone will cost you at least $15k.

Or just get a E30 325i/is. The 1989-1991 have the nicer, plastic bumpers instead of the big polished aluminum ones. The M3 has a better suspension and brake package, though. Big brake upgrades on an E30 are not easy, either. For track use, you would have to get a custom made brake system, especially with 300+ HP.

Nice to see some women on this board, too!
JamesM

Or instead of getting the Euro 3.8 from the M5. Get the Euro 3.2 from the E36 M3, it has 300 or so bhp from standard.

Yeah, the Euro S50 3.0L had about 286HP standard, but it was tuned to use super-premium, 98+ octane gas. Canadian 1995 M3s were Euro spec. Those cars had REAL M-engines with individual throttles like the E30 and E28 M cars. The bonus of the S50/S52 is that they have variable valve timing. The Euro cars had fully variable timing on both intake and exhaust. That's why you see the bulge in front of both the intake and exhaust cams, unlike the US M50 and S50 engines.

The Euro S52 engine (3.2L 1996+ available only in Europe) got 321HP stock on 98+ octane. Those engines are harder to tune because not many tuners here in the US have worked on them. That and they cost a whole lot. You'd be better off with a US M50/S50 engine (which are the same head and block castings, just different crank, pistons, and cams) and modifying that. They're much cheaper.

JamesM

All this talk about putting a six in the M3's misses the point. Sure,people have been doing it for years and it works. You put a lot of torque and power in the car for little money and its great at the Englishtown (wherever) drag strip. It won't be the same on a road course or on your favorite back roads. It won't have the same engine character or sound, etc. The M3 is a unique and turly rare car that needs to be preserved. Hell, just buy a used 95+ M3 to get the big motor. Or, take a straight E30 and put a better motor in it. Don't screw up a jewel.

I had a 79 gray market 323i with the 2.3 liter baby six. I kept the head and put a 3.3 eta shortblock in. I put half a lambo intake on it and added downdraft webers. Ported and polished the heads and added MSD ignition. Car probably made 300+ hp and stonked in a straight line. Not bad in the turns, but it did push a bit, since the 3.3 block was iron. Lost the higher reving of the smaller block. Not the same, though fun.

The S14 motor is just so nice. A 2.5 with 240-250 rwhp is as fast as almost any current hot car, makes more than the magic 100 hp/liter and still has way more torque than a honda vtec or a USA E36 M3 in a body that weighs 300 lbs less. And, for people like me whoi love high revs, its just the best. Only the Hondas and Ferraris wind that high and a good bit of my love for the car has been listening to the motor at 7500 rpm+... -Gordon

I don't want to put the 6 in an M3. I was just saying how easy it is.

The big-time S14 engine builders can't get more than 220lb-ft of torque from the S14. That's still a lot of torque/liter without variable valve timing or lift. To get 240-250RWHP, you need 270-280 crank HP, which costs a cool $11,000 plus your own engine as a core. I love the way my bone-stock S14 sounds at 7600RPM. It sounds nicer than any rice-boy with fart-pipe or even a good exhaust.

A well-tuned, well-driven E30 M3 with S50 engine will smoke a comparably equipped E36 M3 around a track.

I'm going to put Schrick cams and 11:1 pistons in there once the engine starts to go. At 175k miles it still screams and pulls great.

James, at 175k miles, have you done an engine rebuild yet?

Since I just enjoy motor threads. The new E30 M3 I just bought has a nicely built 2.5 motor. The heads are mildly ported with 48 mm throttle bodies and matched trumpets, Weisco 11.25:1 pistons, Motorsport valve springs and titanium retainers. It makes about 200 rear wheel horsepower.

I got a Haltech computer for it and will be adding it over the winter. I suspect that adding a 3 inch single pipe exhaust and constructing better fuel and timing maps, it should put out around 210-215 peak rwhp and a nice, fat torque curve. That's about 20% more power than a stock E36 M3 in a car that weighs about 10% less. I thought the stock non-M 2.5 liter motor made around 189 flywheel or about 155-160 rwhp.

From reading the BMW forums, I have not seen a lot of talk about aftermarket computers and would suggest that they are a much better route to go than chips. Basically, the chip is just a fuel and timing map for a targeted set of sort of general mods. The aftermarket computer lets you hook up a Lambda sensor/meter and refine the fuel and timing maps to exactly your car. There's probably a safe 10+ rwhp gain for even a very light set of mods. (blah, blah, blah. I know this is probably pretty boring...)

Now, when you combine that with the higher-reving of the S14 versus S50 motors, there's an even greater difference. The S14 2.5 with better valve springs will rev to 7,800 rpm, with peak torque at about 7,000. The S50 is limited to about 6,500 rpm and makes peak torque around 5,500 rpm. As a result, by the time you shift out of third, a six cylinder powered E30, stock E36, or stock E36 M3 should be a speck in your rear view mirror.

Gordon

Originally posted by gmonsen
Since I just enjoy motor threads. The new E30 M3 I just bought has a nicely built 2.5 motor. The heads are mildly ported with 48 mm throttle bodies and matched trumpets, Weisco 11.25:1 pistons, Motorsport valve springs and titanium retainers. It makes about 200 rear wheel horsepower.

I got a Haltech computer for it and will be adding it over the winter. I suspect that adding a 3 inch single pipe exhaust and constructing better fuel and timing maps, it should put out around 210-215 peak rwhp and a nice, fat torque curve. That's about 20% more power than a stock E36 M3 in a car that weighs about 10% less. I thought the stock non-M 2.5 liter motor made around 189 flywheel or about 155-160 rwhp.

From reading the BMW forums, I have not seen a lot of talk about aftermarket computers and would suggest that they are a much better route to go than chips. Basically, the chip is just a fuel and timing map for a targeted set of sort of general mods. The aftermarket computer lets you hook up a Lambda sensor/meter and refine the fuel and timing maps to exactly your car. There's probably a safe 10+ rwhp gain for even a very light set of mods. (blah, blah, blah. I know this is probably pretty boring...)

Now, when you combine that with the higher-reving of the S14 versus S50 motors, there's an even greater difference. The S14 2.5 with better valve springs will rev to 7,800 rpm, with peak torque at about 7,000. The S50 is limited to about 6,500 rpm and makes peak torque around 5,500 rpm. As a result, by the time you shift out of third, a six cylinder powered E30, stock E36, or stock E36 M3 should be a speck in your rear view mirror.

Gordon

A nice wealth of info. How much are aftermarket computers selling for?

the E30 M3 would be a great project car, but do not let the price tag fool you.......anything that you save up front you will make up down the road guarenteed :cry:

Hey Dave...you're a Moderator! Congrats! :clap:

Bob ///M3

PS - Stop by the Admin & Mod forum to say hello.

Originally posted by Bob ///M3
Hey Dave...you're a Moderator! Congrats! :clap:

Bob ///M3

PS - Stop by the Admin & Mod forum to say hello.

Thanks Bob. Glad to be on the BF.C team!

Thats the secret forum, you musn't tell anyone! :stickoutt

I put in a good word for ya :) there isn't much to moderate in these forums, but the help is much appreciated!

Welcome!

Originally posted by Bry
Thats the secret forum, you musn't tell anyone! :stickoutt

I put in a good word for ya :) there isn't much to moderate in these forums, but the help is much appreciated!

Welcome!


Oh sounds like a challenge:D