So I've talked to IOPortRacing, and they will give us 10% off of Roll Bars.

The deal is that there has to be at least 5 people, all of the bars have to be ordered by phone on the same day. All of the bars have to be delivered to a business and the shipping has to be paid for at that time.

Therefore, I'm posting this in the regional forum.

The additional discount would be 10% for 5 or more roll bars or roll cages purchased at one time. This can be mix and match. No further discounts for higher quantity unless 10 or more of the exact same roll bar or cage were ordered at one time and shipped to one address.

This discount applies only to the roll bar or cage, not to any add-on items. Purchases must be by phone order only, as we will have many questions for them. Discount does not apply to freight. The buyer must mention the group buy. Orders must be received one day only. Choose this day several weeks out from now. This will give everyone enough chance to decide what they want. Make the day a Thursday or Friday. Expect 2-3 weeks for manufacture and a week in transit.

This is the exact email I got back from the salesman.

http://www.ioportracing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv? is the link to the site, and in the top drop down box, there are the applications listed.

The price I was quoted on the Race bar with removable cross and harness braces was $380, so it would ~$350 instead.

I do not really know the exact shipping costs right now. The shipping for one is $100-140.

You know that I am in.

BTW, this group buy is for any bar made by AutoPower

http://www.ioportracing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=IPRS&Category_Code=AP902

There's the link for the roll bars...which one is it exactly?

George

Anyone your little heart desires...

mmmm.....I want the pretty one!!!!


-kip

-kip
:lol:

so whats the timeframe for this?

Matt

Well probably ~8 weeks to time of delivery

John That is the exact bar I am getting too, it will be one of my winter purchases.

I'm not in any hurry, and it would be a winter project for most of us, so we could push it back...

Let's use this to gauge interest at this point.

The Salesman said to make the ordering date 2-3 weeks in advance, and then delivery would be ~4 weeks after the order date. So it may take 2-3 weeks to get enough interest, and then another 2-3 weeks to set up an order date, then another 4 weeks for delivery. So 2-3 months from now is winter :D

I think the biggest savings would be in the shipping charges. I'll see if they car give me a clearer picture in price for shipping tomorrow.

hmmn, could i still use my car as a daily driver and fit a baby seat in the back ?

jeff

Originally posted by JLee
hmmn, could i still use my car as a daily driver and fit a baby seat in the back ?

jeff
Yeah you could, just would have to reach over the bar to put your kid in the seat (might be a hard sell to the wife though:)). The longer we wait on this the better John, that way I can do the seats and bar at the same time. Hopefully we can get a better deal too, this is becoming way to appealing to ignore IMO.

I'm definately in

I would be interested in this one
http://www.ioportracing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=60902&Category_Code=AP902

just out of curiosity-how many of you guys are welding and how many are bolting it in?

I'll end up bolting it in.

There was another buying option that was offered, and that was to get 10 of the same bar made, ordered at the same time, and shipped to the same address. I do not know how realistic it is, but I think we could get 10 Race Bars w/ the removable cross braces for the coupe (Sorry Jesse and Jeff - I'm sure we could still get you the 10% off though). The Race Bar w/ stuff is the one I was talking about that would be ~$350.

The longer we wait the better it seems... as long as it's before next season.

Here's a list of people who have some sort of interest:

Coupes
1. Me
2. Matt W.
3. George
4. James
5. Lance
6. Alex
7. Jed

Sedans
1. Jesse
2. Jeff

Call some friends and see if we can get more for the coupes and we could get ourselves a really good deal here. I will email IOPort again tomorrow and see what exactly can be done IF we can get 10 coupe bars all at one time.

I may have a business to deliver to, but I'll have to check for certain... and it's not BR - 10-12 Roll Bars will NOT fit in the store:rolleyes:

I wouldn't go with autopower...they are not proven in roll over incidents as is the case with most aftermarket bolt-in one peice fits all type of deals...:mad: .... anyway, I strongly recommend a 4 point custom built rollbar that is welded to the chassis...even if you bolt it (bad move in my book) still get custom work done...chassis stuff is not when you want to go 'cookie-cutter'....and you guys could get a custom unit in your cars for $400 - $500 in way less than 8 weeks with work that you know is top notch quality...I hope you guys are planning on running some harnesses and a good seat or racing shell...hope this helps:)

I double posted this thread in the NY/NJ/CT Regional Forum... they could drive down here to save money too.

Originally posted by sunir
I wouldn't go with autopower...they are not proven in roll over incidents as is the case with most aftermarket bolt-in one peice fits all type of deals...:mad: .... anyway, I strongly recommend a 4 point custom built rollbar that is welded to the chassis...even if you bolt it (bad move in my book) still get custom work done...chassis stuff is not when you want to go 'cookie-cutter'....and you guys could get a custom unit in your cars for $400 - $500 in way less than 8 weeks with work that you know is top notch quality...I hope you guys are planning on running some harnesses and a good seat or racing shell...hope this helps:)

I knew someone was going to chime in and say this:rolleyes:

Have you actually looked at the site? Seen pictures of the installs? Since when are the bars "one peice fits all?" One of the specs when ordering is wether the car has a sunroof on not, but I guess that's one size fits all. And bolt in cages have been around for the longest time, but I assure you that if anyone of us are racing, we'll make sure we weld the bar in.

And since no one besides Autopower makes a bar for 4 doors (again, one size fits all) Jesse and Jeff are stuck.

Originally posted by sunir
I wouldn't go with autopower...they are not proven in roll over incidents as is the case with most aftermarket bolt-in one peice fits all type of deals...:mad: ....

I'd be interested to see your research materials on this subject which show these types of bars to be insufficient in roll-over incidents.

Originally posted by sunir
I wouldn't go with autopower...they are not proven in roll over incidents as is the case with most aftermarket bolt-in one peice fits all type of deals...:mad: .... anyway, I strongly recommend a 4 point custom built rollbar that is welded to the chassis...even if you bolt it (bad move in my book) still get custom work done...chassis stuff is not when you want to go 'cookie-cutter'....and you guys could get a custom unit in your cars for $400 - $500 in way less than 8 weeks with work that you know is top notch quality...I hope you guys are planning on running some harnesses and a good seat or racing shell...hope this helps:)

Sunir-

When you say custom-are you talking about Mitch Piper? How much for a 4 point?

John-

I may be interested. Even if the autopower may not be as good as the others, it's better than nothing, I suppose.

If I was racing W2W I'd spend the extra money for the custom cage... I think we all would.

And if I ever want to sell the car, I'll have to take the bar out... try that with a welded in cage.

Here's pictures of one installed

http://www.ioportracing.com/instructions/e36m3-rollbar.htm

Do they make one of those rollbars that goes in my pickup bed? You know, the cool ones with the lights mounted to it? :D :lol:

http://www.truckworld.com/Readers-Rides/images/2002/apr-02/4242002_70401-2-96.jpg

Hey John, I am still on the fence about this, the later the better for me (maybe it could be a x-mas present from my Fiance?!?!?!). I was going to look into seats over the winter and wanted to do a bar at the same time. So this might be a definite option. I will talk to you about it on Sunday at FedEx.

I am sure that a welded bar is better than a bolt in, but a bolt in is better than no bar.

Originally posted by GreekM3
just out of curiosity-how many of you guys are welding and how many are bolting it in?

I'll be bolting mine in, and as Jed said to the quality of the bars, they are better then nothing.

The bar can be welded in, but getting the bar out is a problem. I think Jan 1 would be the best date at this point to set to order them... but that's a couple of months away, and can be changed.

And Nick, you're just excited because with that extra weight, you'll be able to beat me in the M5. :flipa:

autopower rollbars...I am simply saying that a basic 4 pt. bar is almost the same money custom made from a reputable chassis builder as an autopower bar...maybe you'll spend $50 - $100 more by having a chassis builder do it...no hassle, no shipping, no worrying about bar notching and/or fitment and you specify the DOM material (wall thickness, mild steel vs. chomoly steel, overal diameter, etc...). I just think it's worth looking into...I know several VERY good chassis builders in the MD/DC/VA area if anyone wants information....again, I am not trying to inturrupt or disuede this group purchase arrangement John has going, that is fine if that is what you guys are after and it may very well be a good product at a good value...I am just offering info on an alternative which I personally think is better for folks I consider fellow enthusiasts and friends :) ....hope this info helps...

Well who are they and where are they located?

How can they top $350 for a bar? Hell, HMS bars are $650 - granted, they look a little better by where the main loop is located, but they also say you need to have a fork lift pull the bar into place...

Originally posted by vjlax18
And Nick, you're just excited because with that extra weight, you'll be able to beat me in the M5. :flipa:

Blah blah blah blah :fu:

14 what? Oh yeah, slower then me...

the phone numbers off hand...I'd have to look them up but here are a few (in no particular order).... I have worked with each of the following in one capacity or another so tell them I sent you and you may, not saying you would, get a better price and an apointment slot so the chassis builder can get your car in and out:

(1) Piper Motorsports: Manassas Park, SCCA, BMW CCA, PCA, USTCC...lots of ITS BMWs, many championship mid-atlanic region racecars

(2) BDM: Manassas Park, SCCA, NASA, again lots of ITS cars...chassis setups including corner balancing and alignment adjustments...A-Sedan experts as well well as IT series cars

(3) Clark Racing Chassis: Woodbine MD, flat out serious chassis building and racecar engineering including setups and tuning, everything from FULL tube frame 25.1.C chassis cars (lots of $$$) to full adjustabe splitter rod ends (which they are currently building for me for just $40)...drag racing and road racing full service facility...

(4) CDOC/DAS sport: Charlottesville VA, makes a bolt on bar but more expensive than Autopower....lots of experience with Porsches and racing setups for European competition cars....

those are some good ones to name a few...it all comes down to what you want to do and what you want to pay for it...but I think these guys offer some good quality work for a good value....

Originally posted by vjlax18
14 what? Oh yeah, slower then me...

you > :) :chainsaw: < me

i talked to mitch piper.

it was a while ago so my figure may be off.

I think he said $800 for a welded in half cage.

that is with the pipes custom bent to fit your car perfectly. Mitch has a really good rep with all the road racers.

I have no problem with welding a cage or half cage in my e30...........NO ONE would want to buy my ugly track/autox abused 325is.

:cool:

Mark, Autopower makes a bar for you E30, and it would be a little more then half the price of the Piper one.

GO CUBBIES -- WAY TO GO WOOD!!!! Cabrera is a bastard!!! :mad:

Anyway -- CDOC is around $950.00 (uninstalled).

Mitch Piper quoted me $1000 for an E36 coupe.

HMS = $650.00

For $350.00 you CANNOT beat it (provided of course we have a good shipping price and NOT by volumetric weight).

John -- i can provide a business address (you already know what it would be).

I personally do not want a welded in cage (albeit safer) -- merely b/c I would probably resell my car w/o it.

Do you know how HARD it is to sell a porsche that has been prepped for the track?? VERY VERY hard ... i mean crap, if you add an aftermarket suspension, most porsche owners run away screaming for their mommy! :stickoutt

Damn -- the wingman commercial is one of the best! :laugh

So what if it does not fit perfect -- as long as it provides better than stock protection -- how can you go wrong??

Am I missing something?

Originally posted by NoSoup4U
GO CUBBIES -- WAY TO GO WOOD!!!! Cabrera is a bastard!!! :mad:


Go FISH! Gotta root for my boy Conine!

Eh, the Dodgers aren't it so it doesn't matter anyway. (the O's have no shot in hell-not since 1997)

Actually... 2 Cubs are ex-Dodgers... Grudzielanek and Karros. Maybe that's why the Cubs are where they are. :D If the Cubs got the right Dodger in their pitching staff (Eric Gagne-the best closer in the MLB), it would've been lights out for the Marlins after 3 games.

Anyway, John keep us up to date on this! Thanks!

I will keep this up to date, and I'm sorry, I was actually busy today at work so I didn't get a chance to email the guy back.

i know the autopower is alot cheaper, but i don't want to spend money on safety equipment and have ANY doubts on whether or not it will do its job. I'm pretty sure you can trust a welded in bar/cage to do its job- especially if installed by someone who's done probably hundreds of these installs.

I personally would rather go with a welded in half cage, with some fixed back fiberglass seats and 5/6 point harnesses. If not, then i'd rather have the stock seats w/ no harnesses. Something tells me that might be safer than going w/ the cheaper stuff or only some parts of the whole system.




:dunno

So Mark, you are saying you wouldn't be interested in my PVC rollcage mounted to the chassis with Crazy Glue?

Crazy glue is good up to 2 tons. It should hold in a roll-over..

There is someone in the area that runs a bolt in bar, and they've even crashed with that bar, and they are still around and kicking.

I just got an email from the salesman. He said he didn't really know a shipping cost on all of them (I said 10-15 bars), but he through out a wild guess and said $350.

He also said if we got 10 of the same bar, it would be a 15% discount on those bars only. So if we found 10 E36 buyers who all wanted the race bar with removable cross braces, the price would be ~$325 and shipping would only be $25-35.

I'm sorry, but a roll bar for $350-$360 shipped is a bad ass price.

And hopefully someone with experience with bolt in bars will chime in soon.

on a serious note-I can still have sex in the back seat with chicks with the bar installed?

With the removable cross braces - yes

John --

If this helps, I posed this question in the track forum quite awhile ago. There are at least two BMW CCA instructors down in N.C. that are using the autopower bolt-in.

One of the best upgrades to the bolt-in is welding reinforcement plates to the bottom (that was suggested by someone in MA).

The consensus was -- for the price, it cannot be beat. It is structurally sound and will protect you in a rollover (I'll do a search later for those posts -- maybe 6 months ago?) ... that is coming NOT from me; but, from other BMW CCA instructors.

You can use your stock vaders, get a seat brace ...

Greek -- sex in the back seat is more fun now -- you can use pulley's and straps like the japanese do, e.g., make a floating harness -- chicks dig it.

There is someone local that uses one, he'll chime in soon I hope ;)

Jed,

yes..........

I may be interested in your PVC roll bar. actually FALK IT, i'm going all out. I'd like a full 8 point roll cage installed. Can you have it welded in too? how's 50 bucks sound?

i'm hoping this cage will up my bling bling factor and give me the "racer" look that I've always wanted.

I'll have to do with this until I get my cage or bar welded in.

hell with it, i want one in my 95 accord too!



:buttrock

So, do you use a soldiering gun to weld the PVC?

Well, I think you guys aren't addressing the other issue with a bar in the car, which is seats and harnesses..

As has been discussed/aruged to death on the Track?autoX forum, you should only really have a bar in the car if your going to be using racing buckets (ie Sparco Evo2) and at least a 4 point, if not a 5 pt harness. I personally wouldn't want to be in a car with stock seats and belts with any bar in it, padded or not...

Anyway, do a search of the track forum and give it some thought before just throwing a bar in the car with out completely redoing the seating...

-Saint

How many points can I expect to get at the showZZZZZZZ if I get one of these cages??:dunno

Those same people say not to use fix backed seats without a roll bar, but I know several other people who do.

The other thing that people don't say is that you are more likely to hit your head on the ground (concrete) in a roll over as you are to hit your head on the roll bar. Your head is very close to the side window, and it's very easy to hit your head there. I had a friend killed that way during an Explorer/Firestone roll over.

The idea that they have is that in a rear end hit, the stock seats will break at the hinges and you will hit your head on the one of the bars.

Everything we do in life involves risk. I've rolled a car in my life, and I'll be buying a bar.

Originally posted by Saint
Well, I think you guys aren't addressing the other issue with a bar in the car, which is seats and harnesses..

As has been discussed/aruged to death on the Track?autoX forum, you should only really have a bar in the car if your going to be using racing buckets (ie Sparco Evo2) and at least a 4 point, if not a 5 pt harness. I personally wouldn't want to be in a car with stock seats and belts with any bar in it, padded or not...

Anyway, do a search of the track forum and give it some thought before just throwing a bar in the car with out completely redoing the seating...

-Saint

I'll be getting seats the bar and harnesses this winter, that is why I am so into this deal, it will be saving me some dollars that I was going to spend anyway.

Originally posted by vjlax18
With the removable cross braces - yes

Hey, that's great news for George because he never did before! :D

Guys -

I thought these conversations would be apropos on the subject of the safety features.

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60620&highlight=autopower

Bryan seems pretty adamant about his hate for the autopower bar (referring to other threads).

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=125160&perpage=25&highlight=autopower&pagenumber=1

Yeah, and Jeff's old car is in the first one. :(

And basically, all of the people have said get larger plates welded on the bottom of the cage. But if you look at the Autopower bar verse the HMS bar, the feet look close to the same size to me.

VJ -- how much more structural ridigity do you think the car will have?

Will it be more prone to oversteer or understeer with a rollbar?

Isn't this a negative for auto-x, because of the additional weight?

whatever you guys decide to do I'm with you. Like Jed said some protection is better than none.

The extra weight is just that, and I guess the car would be more rigid :dunno: - I know with the HMS bars, they recommend installing them while a fork lift pulls from the rear and jacking the car up or some shizzle.

I don't know guys. I'm not sure there's solid proof that having the bar is significantly safer than not having the bar when you take the head-cracking factor into account. Plus most of you seem like autocross junkies. Why do you want to lug that extra weight around for a questionable increase in safety?

I wouldn't want that thing in my car if I wasn't wearing a helmet (i.e. on the street)! :eek:

John V

Originally posted by SoloII///M
I don't know guys. I'm not sure there's solid proof that having the bar is significantly safer than not having the bar when you take the head-cracking factor into account. Plus most of you seem like autocross junkies. Why do you want to lug that extra weight around for a questionable increase in safety?

I wouldn't want that thing in my car if I wasn't wearing a helmet (i.e. on the street)! :eek:

John V

I'm not an auto-x junky, in fact I think it is pretty boring. I want it in case I roll on the track. As far as banging my head on the street, I don't drive the car on the street much. Just my personal opinion, this bar is well worth the money for what I use my car for.

Again, you're more likely to hit your head on the damn window then the roll bar... glass breaks, metal doesn't, but what's on the other side of the window?

And the extra weight doesn't mean anything to me...

I'm not an auto-x junky, in fact I think it is pretty boring.

I said most of you, not all of you. I think that statement is still factual ;)

[B]
I want it in case I roll on the track. As far as banging my head on the street, I don't drive the car on the street much. Just my personal opinion, this bar is well worth the money for what I use my car for.

If I were doing any serious track lapping I would definitely want a cage of some sort. I guess I'm a bit skeptical of the "something is better than nothing" argument.

You don't drive your car on the street; that's fine; but some of these guys DO drive these cars on the street, and as daily drivers.

I'm not trying to dissuade anyone, for this kind of thing I would just want to be 100% certain it's going to satisfy what I want in terms of safety.

John

John, the fact is that the people who actually have this bar in their cars like it. The only concerns people have are the the feet aren't large enough, but they look to be the same size as the one that HMS sells.

If people want a DOM bar, they are offered too.

Originally posted by vjlax18
Again, you're more likely to hit your head on the damn window then the roll bar... glass breaks, metal doesn't, but what's on the other side of the window?

And the extra weight doesn't mean anything to me...

Ok, obviously in a roll over it's good to have the bar, and yes you may well hit the window before hitting the bar.

To me, the problem with using a bar without racing buckets and a harness is not a roll over, it's every other kind of accident.. What happens in a front or rear collison and the seat back breaks, then you far more likely to be moved in such a way that you'll hit some part of you on some part of the bar.

And what about a side impact? What if some asshole blows a stop sign or a red light and hits you square in the side? With a normal seat belt I think it would be much easier for you to be knocked loose from the belt/seat and smack the bar than if you had a 4 or 5 pt and a racing shell, which would keep you much more planted in the driving position..

I guess I'm just trying to say that you have to look beyond rollover safety, to general safety. Plus if you're not seriously tracking the car then I really don't see the advantage, with or with out racing seats/harnesses...

-Saint

Originally posted by Saint
I guess I'm just trying to say that you have to look beyond rollover safety, to general safety. Plus if you're not seriously tracking the car then I really don't see the advantage, with or with out racing seats/harnesses...

-Saint

Well said.

John V