This happened a little while ago (about a month), but I guess i'll post it up now...
I don't normally race on the street, but this guy was just asking for it. Anyway, I was driving home from eating dinner in the city (Baltimore) with some friends (had 3 other people in the car with the A/C blasting) when this dark green GTI goes blazing past me on one of the city streets and gets caught at a light in front of me. From the way he was driving it seemed like he was trying to show off or trying to entice me into a race. I could tell that he had the car lowered and had an exhaust on it. From the sound, I could tell that he also had some sort of intake on it. Anyway, the light turned green and he jets off down the street. At this point, I'm too busy talking to the people in my car, but when we get to the next light, he's there again stuck at the same light. Same thing happens...light turns green, he takes off, and we see him again at the next light. This happens two more times and every time, he floors it at the green only to get caught at the next light while I'm just cruising along miding my own business. Finally, the exit to the highway (83N) comes up and he turns. I turn onto the highway a little bit behind him still cruising and chatting with the people in my car. Once on the highway, I get up to about 65 and start passing him in the left most lane (he driving kiknda slow...probably because he wanted me to catch up). Once we get next to him, my GF looks over and joking says "I think he wants to race you." Right after she says that, I hear him downshift to 3rd and try to take off. In my head I say "f**c it" and I drop down to 3rd also and drop the hammer. By the time I drop it, he's already got a 1/4 car length on me but once I put it down we catch up real quick. Within a couple of seconds we're pulling on him and in no time at all we have about almost 2 car lengths on him. By this time, we hit some nice curves in the road (I love driving this section of 83N) where I totally lose him and he gives up chase. Silly VR6ers...shoulda bought the 1.8T. Not to mention that I had 3 other people in the car and the A/C still on. Heh:D
Anyway, just thought i'd share. Oh, and if there's any cops reading this, this story is purely fictional and didn't actually happen. It's just an experiment in fictional journalism. :devillook :D

Originally posted by Mpowered02
Oh, and if there's any cops reading this, this story is purely fictional and didn't actually happen. It's just an experiment in fictional journalism. :devillook :D

:biglaughb

Good one.

Fictional journalism huh? Cool. :)

Fictional journalism is easier to read with paragraphs... :D

a experimental kill? hmmm...... :devillook

Was this a MkIV GTI? (newest style) at best it has 200HP at the crank if it is a 2002.5 or newer....you have 40HP in a rear wheel drive car.....so this shouldn't be surprising....damn mkIV drivers driving like A-holes making us VW people look bad:mad:

As for the comment about stupid for buying the VR6 over the 1.8T well that not's entirely true....if you are looking for cheap speed sure the 1.8T's not a bad way to go, but the VR6 has so much more potential....and has a much better feel out of the box....the slow then GO!!! feel of the 1.8T does less than nothing for me personally. VR6 has a much more linear power band.....

But no 1.8T should be egging on an E36 without an upgraded turbo, and no VR6 without some sort of forced induction....although it sounds like with your car he probably didn't know what he was up against.

Originally posted by Silent Bob

But no 1.8T should be egging on an E36 without an upgraded turbo, and no VR6 without some sort of forced induction....although it sounds like with your car he probably didn't know what he was up against.

LMAO are you kidding me ??? Now not to knock on BMW owners but after reading these forums and watching videos of E36 M3 drivers at the track 95% can't drive... Most struggle to run low 14's with intake/exhaust. Now you take that with 4 people in the car so say an additional 475lbs, Plus AC... which is robbing 10% of power.... I'd say this VR6 had to be damn close to stock, because if He had chip/intake/exhaust at a minimum it should have been closer...
But nice kill no matter what...

Now to say no 1.8T should be egging on a E36 w/o a turbo upgrade ??? Well Since I know more 1.8T running mid to high 13's with bolt-ons then I know of M3's with bolt ons i'd say that statement is false...
If a 1.8T had a turbo upgrade you would need to E36 to have FI to keep up... because a turbo upgrade 1.8T traps 106-109mph...

Now same goes for the VR6... I ran 13.9 allmotor with chip/intake/exhaust/cams... and E36 m3's where always good races on the highway outcome was always within 2 cars, with me also on the losing end some times... But on the track I have never lost to an E36 m3... which just goes to show the poor driving ability of the owners...

Written by Tim (VWSport.Com)

yeah I was just talking based on capabilities of the car rather than the driver......and with what you quoted I was simply refering to the fact that his car sounds like it might not be badged as an ///M, if it is than disregard that comment.

also 13.9 with just intake/chip/exhaust/cams is damn impressive from a VR6...DSR 256's??? any lightening modification?

And a highly modded 1.8T may trap a high number, but without an LSD they are near impossible to launch.( for most people)

I've messed with a few E36 M3's. One was barely pulling on me and another I pulled on. This was with just a chip and intake. Now I have a 2.5" Turbo Back exhaust. Last time I was at the track I ran a 14.5 @97mph with a crappy 2.3 60'. This was also done in SLC Utah so the altitude killed me. At sea level with a good launch I should run low 14's to high 13's.

But the VR6 is a different beast... They are slow :P

Originally posted by Jedi801
. Last time I was at the track I ran a 14.5 @97mph with a crappy 2.3 60'. This was also done in SLC Utah so the altitude killed me. At sea level with a good launch I should run low 14's to high 13's.

But the VR6 is a different beast... They are slow :P

Not to be rude, but if VWSport.com ran a 13.9 all motor in his VR, how can you call that slow??

Sorry we are getting a bit off topic here.....let's save the 1.8T VR6 debate for the tex:D

Different strokes for different folks......I prefer the feel/reliability of N/A myself for daily driving, so if I am slower as a result of it so be it.

1.8t's are the new thing. They are 10 times better to mod than the VR6's.

Originally posted by WannaM
1.8t's are the new thing. They are 10 times better to mod than the VR6's.

10 times CHEAPER you mean.....well that's not really true once you have to replace a $1500 turbo.

Ok, I'm going to let someone else convince you.

Woah...didn't intend to start a VW vs. BMW flame war! :az:
Anyway, the car was a MkIII GTI. I give much props to VR6 VW's (several of my friends have em)...just hate it when people drive like jackasses. As for the VR6 vs. 1.8T debate...I think the 1.8T has more potential for less money...have to clarify that. I have a good friend that has a MKIV VR6 Jetta that has a custom Turbonetics T3/T4 setup from NGP and it rocks, but he spent a small fortune to hook it all up. And it's a sleeper too cuz it looks almost totally stock on the outside (except for being lowered a little). That car would kill my car any day of the week. Anyway, just wanted to clarify some things a little...

Originally posted by Silent Bob
Not to be rude, but if VWSport.com ran a 13.9 all motor in his VR, how can you call that slow??

Sorry we are getting a bit off topic here.....let's save the 1.8T VR6 debate for the tex:D

Different strokes for different folks......I prefer the feel/reliability of N/A myself for daily driving, so if I am slower as a result of it so be it.

Sorry I was kidding. I have a lot of respect for the VR6. I have a friend with a MKIV VR6 with chip/intake/exhaust and it sounds mean but he has only been able to get low 16's at this altitude.

I also have a friend that had a MKIII VR6 with Chip/filter/exhaust/cams/intake manifold and a few other goodies. His car was sick but I would still beat him with just a chip and intake. The VR6 hates the altitude here in SLC.

As far as potential you are right the VR6 has more. But it will cost you. 5k into a 1.8t and you will be able to run 12's but it will cost you more to get into the 12's on a VR6. I have yet to see a 1.8t get into the 9's and Brian Kirschberger has a Jetta in the 9's.

oh you will get no BMW vs VW arguing from me......have a VW WANT a BMW.....but at the time I could get more bang for my buck with a VW.....

Yes the VR6 is a complete pig in altitude......for those of you at sea level you would be shocked how much slower your car feels in the Rocky's.......F/I cars have a huge advantage here.

and lastly I have much respect for the 1.8T, the first time I drove one I was pretty impressed, however I just don't think any turbo 4 is the right car for me.....I tend to break stuff easily....and my buddy(who works on German cars) assures me I will blow up the stock turbo with my driving habits.

Mpowered02, I'm curious as to which motor you have. Is it a 240hp one? If it is and this car was an MK3 I think it should have definitely been closer. I know how my MK3 runs against stock E36 M cars and it is close up to about 110-120 if going from a roll.

I'm with the other guy in saying it was probably more stock than not stock. I have I/C and some resonators missing from my stock exhaust and I had a run in with one on I-95 a few weeks ago. I was wondering why I was creeping and then noticed that it had not 2 people, but 3 people in it. It was close even with the M3's weight disadvantage. If you had 4 people something is wrong.

Not to dis the M, hell, I want one (FWD ain't too fun) but in certain conditions the difference in acceleration isn't that great. It's definitely the faster car even when stock and comparing my little bit of mods. But its pretty close, man.

And the 1.8 is a great motor, but $$ for $$ it isn't that much better. Chips run around $400 for 20 valves and $100-125 for VR6. Diverter Valves, turbo backs etc. it adds up. I think the detrement to the VR in many peoples minds isn't that its slow (keep beleiving that) but it doesn't gain 40 horses on an ECU upgrade like a 20 valve. Its in the advertising. If one plans mods to the VR to be effective in power and cost it runs hard on the cheap as Tim and the NJ guys prove. Here in Miami I see too many people sucked into hype and haphazardly modding w/ stuff that does really nothing (ie Schrick VGI and Big Bore intakes).

For the record K03 cars w/ a chip don't run any harder than a VR w/ a chip. Its the K03 sport ones that are dangerous. Underrated power numbers, in specific. I have a hard time with stock/near stock ones. Haven't run a chipped one yet but I want to.

Cosmosis...yeah, my car has the 240hp 3.2L M3 engine in it (for now at least )...with a Jim C. Intake, AC Schnitzer exhaust, chip, and lightened flywheel. The GTI was a green MKIII that had a VR6 badge on it. Maybe it was a n/a 4 banger and he just put the VR6 badge on? If that's the case then that would be really lame.
But why on earth would you do that and TRY to entice people to race? That would be downright dumb. I know my friends' MKIV VR6 GTI definitely puts up a better fight than this green car did, and his is pretty much stock with the exception of a Borla exhaust. This green car obviously had an exhaust and sounded like it had an intake. :dunno

Sometimes people do dumb things. I saw a 4Motion badge on an 01 vr6 in a dealer service bay 6 weeks ago. I got down to look under it to see if it had independant rear suspesion and it was a friggin beam like all the other fwd Dubs in the country. BTW, 4Motion was never an option in America.

You have mods and a car like yours would pull me pretty nice, but if it was a VR maybe it was sick?

Originally posted by Mpowered02
Cosmosis...yeah, my car has the 240hp 3.2L M3 engine in it (for now at least )...with a Jim C. Intake, AC Schnitzer exhaust, chip, and lightened flywheel. The GTI was a green MKIII that had a VR6 badge on it. Maybe it was a n/a 4 banger and he just put the VR6 badge on? If that's the case then that would be really lame.
But why on earth would you do that and TRY to entice people to race? That would be downright dumb. I know my friends' MKIV VR6 GTI definitely puts up a better fight than this green car did, and his is pretty much stock with the exception of a Borla exhaust. This green car obviously had an exhaust and sounded like it had an intake. :dunno

Nah that makes sense, If you have Chip/Intake/Exhaust... you should pull him like that.... it was definately a VR6..

My friend (TheWoodside) who i posted under before by accident is going to aim for 12's allmotor with his 98 M3.... we got plans of doing it minimals mods...
OBD1 conversion (Intake Manifold), 3.46 LSD R&P, Intake and Exhaust... We think 12.99 is definately in the picture with a decent hook...

Originally posted by Silent Bob
yeah I was just talking based on capabilities of the car rather than the driver......and with what you quoted I was simply refering to the fact that his car sounds like it might not be badged as an ///M, if it is than disregard that comment.

also 13.9 with just intake/chip/exhaust/cams is damn impressive from a VR6...DSR 256's??? any lightening modification?

And a highly modded 1.8T may trap a high number, but without an LSD they are near impossible to launch.( for most people)

Well mainly what I was quoting that you said you shouldn't challenge and M3 w/o Turbo Upgrade of FI... which IMO is far from true... as for being Debadged... it's so easy for anyone with half a brain to tell and M3... by side skirts.mirrors.tire width etc....

I had mild weight reduction, but i'm a fat bastard so that doesn't help... the car weighed 2790lbs w/me (240lbs) . Just plenty of track time... I even did it with stock 3.39 gearing...

Well I sure hope anyone thats going to spend $4-5grand on a Stage 3 setup would be smart enough to do the tranny... and i'm not talking for launching i'm talking just so that shit don't blow up...

As for launching a 1.8t with open diff... it's no different then anyother FWD... gotta slip the clutch, In my boys AWW 1.8T, I've been 2.09 60ft on the stock 195/60/15 michellins on stock clutch/open diff... but ran 2.1X 60fts all day long

Launching a Stage 3 car is a different story and I reccomend some BFG 225/50/15 drag radials..

It's all bout practice and track time

Tim

Originally posted by Jedi801
As far as potential you are right the VR6 has more. But it will cost you. 5k into a 1.8t and you will be able to run 12's but it will cost you more to get into the 12's on a VR6. I have yet to see a 1.8t get into the 9's and Brian Kirschberger has a Jetta in the 9's. [/B]

First off Altitude sucks for any allmotor cars you basically just have to throw any experiences you have out the window because people at sea level are gonna look at you funny hahahah...

As for the bang for the buck.. .that really all depends on a lot of factors... Now i'm using experience of personal friends who have lots of track experience and driving skill, results may vary :D

AllMotor VR6 - Weight With Driver - 2650lbs
Mods -
GIAC Chip - $125
Schrick 268 Cams/Valve Springs - $600
Gasket Matched Intake Manifold - FREE (Dremel)
TT 2.5 in Exhaust - $300
CAI - $150
Test Pipe - $50
Stock Tranny/Clutch/Open Diff
Best E/T - 13.74 @ 100mph (2.02 60ft)
Currently he Added a CCH Big Valve Head and 3.67 R&P
Best E/T - 13.46 @ 103mph (2600lbs w/driver)


AWW 1.8T - Weight With Driver - 2830lbs
Mods -
GIAC Chip - $400
ATP 3in DP - $350 (IIRC)
Baily DV - $100 (Guestimate)
Drop-In Air Filter - $60
N75 Valve - $75 (Guestimate)
Dump Tube - $50
Stock Tranny/Clutch/Open Diff
Best E/T - 13.76 @ 101mph (2.11 60ft)
Currently Added BFG 225/50/15 DR / AEM CAI / LW Flywheel
Best E/T - 13.42 @ 102mph

Basically as you can see you can get similar results for similar money but if you want to take the next step it's all vr6...

Now to get into the 12's.. all you would have to do with either setup is add another $800 for a Nitrous setup...

No 1.8T is in the 9's... because there is nobody racing them at the levels we are racing our Vr6s... Shit just our crew in Jersey will handle any 1.8t in the country just because no body is trying...

Don't worry next year there is a good chance Brian will be running a 4cylinder... and we have high expectations :)

Tim

Wow those times for the VR6 are impressive. My friend with the MKIII VR6 had the following mods and would have probably only run 15's here.
Schrick VGI, Schrick 264/260 cams, GIAC v.11 chip, TT cat-back exhaust, K&N drop-in filter as well as conical filter, HD valve springs

Originally posted by VWSport.Com
as for being Debadged... it's so easy for anyone with half a brain to tell and M3... by side skirts.mirrors.tire width etc....


yeah I went and re-read his sig......the first time I read it I was under the impression that he had dropped an M motor in a 325i or something

Jedi, thats the kind of thing I mean. That VGI is a waste in my opinion. That 1,xxx dollars could have been put into a head.

Tim, I know there is a big difference in a modded M vs. non-modded, just like a VR. But damn, do you really think w/ 4 peeps it would still do damage to a Vr with questionable mods like that?

I'm seriously asking because 400 some odd pounds is alot. Hell, I won't bother with anyone if my back seat is occupied at all. Nevermind both sides.

Originally posted by COSMOSIS
Jedi, thats the kind of thing I mean. That VGI is a waste in my opinion. That 1,xxx dollars could have been put into a head.

Tim, I know there is a big difference in a modded M vs. non-modded, just like a VR. But damn, do you really think w/ 4 peeps it would still do damage to a Vr with questionable mods like that?

I'm seriously asking because 400 some odd pounds is alot. Hell, I won't bother with anyone if my back seat is occupied at all. Nevermind both sides.

Well, my boys Bone Stock M3 with a slipping clutch went 13.8 @ 99mph .. so we know with a good clutch it would have trapped over 100mph. Now you add Intake/Exhaust/Chip... with a driver that car "could" trap 103-105mph... Now add 400lbs take away all the gains from the mods... just for arguements sake... Now you still have a car that traps 98-99mph..

Thats what my car was trapping with my chip.intake.exhaust.cams... so... Yea i think he could have pulled him that easily.

E36 M3's was the one car that always gave me great runs on the highway... when i trapped 99mph...

No one really sees what M3 can do because not many people bring them to the track and the ones that do aren't the best drivers...

Like I said we have plans on getting my boys M3 into the 12's N/A with limits mods so we see how things pan out.

Tim

Originally posted by VWSport.Com
First off Altitude sucks for any allmotor cars you basically just have to throw any experiences you have out the window because people at sea level are gonna look at you funny hahahah...

As for the bang for the buck.. .that really all depends on a lot of factors... Now i'm using experience of personal friends who have lots of track experience and driving skill, results may vary :D

AllMotor VR6 - Weight With Driver - 2650lbs
Mods -
GIAC Chip - $125
Schrick 268 Cams/Valve Springs - $600
Gasket Matched Intake Manifold - FREE (Dremel)
TT 2.5 in Exhaust - $300
CAI - $150
Test Pipe - $50
Stock Tranny/Clutch/Open Diff
Best E/T - 13.74 @ 100mph (2.02 60ft)
Currently he Added a CCH Big Valve Head and 3.67 R&P
Best E/T - 13.46 @ 103mph (2600lbs w/driver)


AWW 1.8T - Weight With Driver - 2830lbs
Mods -
GIAC Chip - $400
ATP 3in DP - $350 (IIRC)
Baily DV - $100 (Guestimate)
Drop-In Air Filter - $60
N75 Valve - $75 (Guestimate)
Dump Tube - $50
Stock Tranny/Clutch/Open Diff
Best E/T - 13.76 @ 101mph (2.11 60ft)
Currently Added BFG 225/50/15 DR / AEM CAI / LW Flywheel
Best E/T - 13.42 @ 102mph

Basically as you can see you can get similar results for similar money but if you want to take the next step it's all vr6...

Now to get into the 12's.. all you would have to do with either setup is add another $800 for a Nitrous setup...

No 1.8T is in the 9's... because there is nobody racing them at the levels we are racing our Vr6s... Shit just our crew in Jersey will handle any 1.8t in the country just because no body is trying...

Don't worry next year there is a good chance Brian will be running a 4cylinder... and we have high expectations :)

Tim

Aren't you forgetting that the VR6 costs more? So for the cost of a VR6, you could get the 1.8 and the mods?

Sure it's a little cheaper... but if you want to look at it like that you can get a used mk3 vr6.... trying to fight that battle will always walk into an endless hallway...

Tim

Originally posted by VWSport.Com
Sure it's a little cheaper... but if you want to look at it like that you can get a used mk3 vr6.... trying to fight that battle will always walk into an endless hallway...

Tim

Agreed......I will always say that it is a preference thing, not a one is better than the other...

bone stock e36 m3 pulling a 13.8@99?
wow. i think that's the highest number i've seen for a stock one.

yea diff is on the way it will go in the same time the new clutch goes in. with the diff i should see lower et's im also looking into obd1 manifold and software for it. next time im out to the track we'll see what happens

were these numbers at Englishtown? That track always seems faster than others.

Originally posted by Jedi801
were these numbers at Englishtown? That track always seems faster than others.

I love when people say that and we've had people come from texas and canada and other places who claim this and funny they all run slower then there home track... I just think people in NJ race alot more then other places...

I know personally my times and those of the other vw's where all backed up at 2 other tracks.

Mine have been run at
E-Town (Best ever run here), ATCO, MIR and Maple Grove
The Allmotor VR6 i mentioned ran his at
E-Town, ATCO, Maple Grove and Cecil County (Best ever run here)
The 1.8T I mentioned ran his at
E-Town, ATCO (Best Ever Run Here), and Maple Grove

I just think unless the track is at Elevation the rest of it is nonsense... it's just people wanting to use the track as an excuse because if you look at alot of the faster guys they can got to any sealevel or close to sea level track and run the same numbers.

What it all comes down to is how much you race your car I know all the people I race with run there cars atleast 3 times a month ... sometimes as much as 5-6 times a month.

Tim

Tim, gotta love the sea level tracks... :D

Let me bring things back ;)...nice kill :D

BMW>VW

Originally posted by Matt P.
BMW>VW

That is starting to change though. I would rather have a Toureg than a X5 and the new Phaeton looks pretty slick too. I am not a complete VW head. If I could have afforded it I would have gotten an Audi instead.

Originally posted by Matt P.
BMW>VW

Are we talking price here?:D

First off Altitude sucks for any allmotor cars you basically just have to throw any experiences you have out the window because people at sea level are gonna look at you funny hahahah...
As for the bang for the buck.. .that really all depends on a lot of factors... Now i'm using experience of personal friends who have lots of track experience and driving skill, results may vary

AllMotor VR6 - Weight With Driver - 2650lbs
Mods -
GIAC Chip - $125
Schrick 268 Cams/Valve Springs - $600
Gasket Matched Intake Manifold - FREE (Dremel)
TT 2.5 in Exhaust - $300
CAI - $150
Test Pipe - $50
Stock Tranny/Clutch/Open Diff
Best E/T - 13.74 @ 100mph (2.02 60ft)
Currently he Added a CCH Big Valve Head and 3.67 R&P
Best E/T - 13.46 @ 103mph (2600lbs w/driver)


AWW 1.8T - Weight With Driver - 2830lbs
Mods -
GIAC Chip - $400
ATP 3in DP - $350 (IIRC)
Baily DV - $100 (Guestimate)
Drop-In Air Filter - $60
N75 Valve - $75 (Guestimate)
Dump Tube - $50
Stock Tranny/Clutch/Open Diff
Best E/T - 13.76 @ 101mph (2.11 60ft)
Currently Added BFG 225/50/15 DR / AEM CAI / LW Flywheel
Best E/T - 13.42 @ 102mph

Basically as you can see you can get similar results for similar money but if you want to take the next step it's all vr6...

Now to get into the 12's.. all you would have to do with either setup is add another $800 for a Nitrous setup...

No 1.8T is in the 9's... because there is nobody racing them at the levels we are racing our Vr6s... Shit just our crew in Jersey will handle any 1.8t in the country just because no body is trying...

Don't worry next year there is a good chance Brian will be running a 4cylinder... and we have high expectations
Hey Tim, what the hell are you doing here.....trouble maker.:wave: