Ok all;

Nu-B, with a new PC and new 525i (2003 Sterling Gray, less than 300 miles). Did some practice on my lease turn in with the PC (anyone who wants to test out their new PC, find someone with a lease turn, you can put all kinds of products on it and it will still look great, at least better than most turn ins).

After reading the board for about a month, decided on the following:

Wash – with Dawn - complete
Dry – with MF - complete
Clay – completed, was surprised how much it removed from a new car.
Wash – with Dawn -complete
Dry – with MF - complete
AIO – with PC and white pad – complete

This is where my questions start (well not really, but as good a place as any ;-)

When I applied the AIO, I think I may have used way too much product, as it took an hour to remove it (by hand). Or did I do something else wrong? I added AIO on to the pad, before turning the PC on rubbed around on surface, then buffed product around until I could see it not spreading well any longer. Completed the whole car, before attempting to remove with a MF towel. Noticed that it took 4+ MF towels to remove (this was where I realized I may have used way too much AIO).

Did not apply anything to the MF’s to attempt to remove the AIO. I thought I read somewhere that you could use a QD (not sure which ones have wax or not, have: Mothers Showtime, Meguiar’s Quik Detailer and whatever comes with the blue magic clay it {or whatever it’s called}), to help with the removal as long as it didn’t contain carnauba. Any help here would be great.

Next plan on:
SG – then wait 24 – 48 hrs (probably at least 3 coats)

Then decide where to go next:

I have Pinnacle Liquid Souveran, as I know you can’t apply SG after a Carnauba based product, I want to see what the result is after the SG. (Can SG be applied after PLS?)

Is there any way to remove just the Carnauba product so that additional coats of SG can be applied?

Any tips on the use of the PC would be great, have read the sticky on use of the PC, this helped GREATLY!!!

I want to thank everyone for all the previous posts, this is an amazing amount of information.

Mike
(sorry for the long post)

Allright. I'm warning you; this is going to be a long reply. You asked for help and I'm gonna give it to you, dammit! :D

Originally posted by Mike62
When I applied the AIO, I think I may have used way too much product, as it took an hour to remove it (by hand). Or did I do something else wrong? I added AIO on to the pad, before turning the PC on rubbed around on surface, then buffed product around until I could see it not spreading well any longer. Completed the whole car, before attempting to remove with a MF towel. Noticed that it took 4+ MF towels to remove (this was where I realized I may have used way too much AIO).
.... Any help here would be great.

There's your problem right there: You do not have to let the Klasse dry before you remove it, and, as you experienced, if you do let it dry, you are just making tons of work for yourself.

Just apply it and wipe it right off.

Heh. You think the AIO is tough to get off? Let the SG dry before you apply it! THAT is tough to get off!!! You definitely do not want the SG to dry before you apply it. Even then, it can haze and be tough to get off.


And no, do not put any carnauba product on before Klasse, as it will not bond to carnauba.

If you want to put Klasse on your car, do it, finish however many coats you want, and then layer on the carnauba to your heart's content.

Regarding extra help and tips, here are a bunch of threads that I was kind enough to look up for you. ;)

These are by David and probably the best:

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113674

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113675

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113670

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113673


Here are some others you may find helpful:

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=120345

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=116344

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=112779

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=120111


I hope you find the above threads helpful!

Let me know if you have any other questions!


Drjones
:boobies

Originally posted by Drjones
You definitely do not want the SG to dry before you apply it. Even then, it can haze and be tough to get off.


Am I reading this correctly? Did you just tell him NOT to let SG dry before buffing it off? One of the most important things you do with Klasse SG is let it dry properly before you remove it. A lot of people let the SG cure overnight before removal. It should sit a minimum of 20-30 minutes before removal. Attempting to remove it right away is what will give you a nasty haze.

Thanks for the replies:

Jones; Yes David's posts were the starting point of my detailing learning, had them actually captured into a word document, thanks for the other info.

Kyle; appreciate the post, as this was one of my questions, as some of the experienced detailers had all said to leave SG on a min. of 30 minutes, with some leaving it over night. I think David in his tutorial said he did not do this.

I'm at my second coat of SG right now. I kind of mixed both options. The first coat I put on in sections and used a very very light coat. Only left it on probably 5-10 min. The second coat I did the whole car before attempting to remove any, this was probably giving me about 30-40 min of dry time (wasn't working very quickly, as I knew I couldn't do much else even if I got done fast ;-)

One thing I did notice is the first coat came off very easily, didn't notice any type of haze (as if I would even know what that looked like lol). After the second coat, I then knew what everyone was talking about, as to how tough it was to remove, still looks like I have a nice clean finish up to this point.

Any thoughts about running a PC with a MF cover over the SG before applying a third layer?

Also, was thinking about adding a 4th layer, since the first layer, may, or may not, have really left a good coating. Any thoughts here?

Also read on autopia, that anything past 4 layers of SG was almost pointless. What are the thoughts here?

Thanks

You gotta let it cure before applying more layers. 24 hrs IIRC. Otherwise, you're just moving the layer around again.

Originally posted by Kyle K.
Am I reading this correctly? Did you just tell him NOT to let SG dry before buffing it off? One of the most important things you do with Klasse SG is let it dry properly before you remove it. A lot of people let the SG cure overnight before removal. It should sit a minimum of 20-30 minutes before removal. Attempting to remove it right away is what will give you a nasty haze.

Interesting.

David, and I believe others here, are quite clear about not letting Klasse products sit on the paint; you SHOULD buff them off immediately after application, as allowing them to sit is unnecessary and makes removal far more difficult.

It's been my experience that allowing them to sit makes it far more difficult to remove as well.

:boobies

I'd like to hear more about your experiences with Klasse SG if you're finding it easier to buff off immediately than if you wait a couple hours. I've applied it on about a half dozen cars, and the one time I tried to buff it off after 10 minutes was one of the biggest PITA I've had to deal with. Ben Carufel is a huge fan of the Klasse products and he always lets the SG sit overnight before removing, as do many many other professional detailers and detailing enthusiasts.

As far as layering the SG, anything beyond 2-3 layers and you're getting into the overkill region. :dunno I'd say do 2 layers, if you're really feeling motivated do a third, and if you still feel like doing more on your car get a good PURE wax (something <b>without</b> cleaners, so do not use Gold Class) and go over it with that. I'd recommend S100 carnuba as the final layer on top of however many layers of SG you decide to use. Its fantastically easy to use and the shine is great. :cool:

Ok, just finished my 3rd coat, let it dry for 2+ hours; man was it tough to get it all off, but one thing is humidity is at 100% and rain outside all day. Car was garaged and completely dry during the SG application.

Now its time to let it sit for 24 hours, then to decide if I should add carnauba. I have both Pinnacle Liquid Gold and S100, would either of these work?

Let me ask a question, if after letting SG sit over night, would it be possible to add one coat of SG and remove it right away, would this help in removal?

Also, could someone list the QDs the do not contain carnauba, as I read in a few posts, that folks will use this to help remove SG, but only QDs with no carnauba.

Anyone tried a PC with a MF after hand buffing off the SG, just to make sure that you have a good buffed surface?

Thanks

I better chime in here. Haven't been in SS for a while.

About AIO. Your original problem with aio is that you didn't buff off the residue immediately after finishing the section with the PC. AIO is a wipe on wipe off product. No dry time needed.

About SG. I used to apply SG to my car, let it dry for an hour, and then buff it off. Doing this was a total pain in the ass in terms of removal. So I experimented and I came up with a new way. I apply SG to a panel or section and immediately buff it off. I found it much easier to remove because it is still wet. Once it dries, whoa baby, watch out! The reason many ppl advocate letting it dry was because removal was supposed to be easier. In fact ti isn't.

I also wanted to clarify dry time and cure tim. Dry time is the time between applying and buffing off a product from your paint. Cure time is the time between coats of a product. In my experience these things have no bearing on one another. SG will not perform any differently if it has a 1 minute or 1 day dry time. But, it will perform differently if it does not have at least 24hrs to cure.

Onto your q's. Either wax will work. S100 is probably the better bet. Paste waxes last longer than liquid.

Non carnuba QD's: Eagle One, Megs final inspection, and Sonus QD.

The extra coat of SG will help buff off the one that dried overnight. I personally would not do this. It's a waste of product. Just suck it up and buff it off as is.

Never used a PC with MF to buff off, so I can't comment on that.

Anymore q's, let me know.

Is meguiars Quik Detailing spray non-carnuba? Or only the final inspection (#34?)?

Where else can you buy the high quality products locally? Do I just need to find a specialty store? I've tried walmart, target, and autozone so far and ended up ordering a lot of stuff online. I'll have to check the harley dealership sometime.

AFAIK, the only place to buy most of this stuff is online. I've heard of some BMW and MB dealers in Cali selling klasse, but other than that, its online.

Only #34 is non-carnuba based. The Quick Detailer has some carnuba.

When applying multiple layers of SG, sometimes its tough to see where you have missed removing the SG (esp. the past week here, been raining every day, so trying to do complete removal by garage light).
My question is if you miss a spot, when you add the next layer, does it remove that spot or seal it in?

Mike,

the new layer should dissolve the missed areas and they should buff of with the new layer.

i feel for you. garage lighting is not ideal for klasse removal. i've been there myself.

Ok, thanks I'll give it a try. Guess I was concerned, as I know waxes remove the previous layer, so no big deal. But SG is allowed to be put in layers, so I thought it might not remove the missed spots, or it would be removing the previous layers of SG.

Also, I think I asked this question up in the thread, not sure I got an answer. Does anyone know if there is something that will strip off ONLY wax (ie s100) off of SG, so that additional coats of SG can be applied.

Does Klasse have a web site?

dawn will strip wax but apparently not sg. i haven't tried it myself, but i do know some ppl who have done this.

klasse does not have an official corporate website. there is very limited "official" info out there about the product.

So, does that mean that I could use S100 wax, then use dawn at some point and strip off just the s100, and add SG back on?

I sure wish I knew how to tell if I was putting SG over left over wax or not.

I guess this creates another question, how do you strip off all SG, and start over? (does AIO strip off all SG?)

you could s100 and then strip and sg again. i would strongly recco against that. bottom line is this: get your sg looking perfect b4 you wax. once you wax it's very hard to go back. 3 layers of sg is perfect. anything more won't give you anything extra from a looks and protection perspective.

if water beads on your paint then you have leftover wax. sg sheets water.

to strip EVERYTHING and start over just use AIO. AIO is hands down the best paint cleaner on the market.

Thanks for all the help David.

I did find that I applied a coat of SG today, and let it sit the same amount of time as the last coat (2 hrs), but today lower humidity and no rain. Yesterday 100% humidity, found that today SG was much easier to remove.

Looks like I should have let it sit longer yesterday, when the humidity was so high. I'm guessing you have to make a choice, either remove right away (as david said) or let it sit until completely dry, however long that takes, based on weather. Trying to do anything in the middle is a PITA to get the stuff off. I didn't have any non carnauba based QD, so just polished out with MF.

Car is looking GREAT!

Thanks again

No problem Mike! Glad the car looks great. Anymore q's, let us know.

Hi everyone,

My new '04 M3 arrives the first week of October, so I recently purchased Klasse All-In-One Polish, Klasse High Gloss Sealant Glaze and some P21S Concours Carnauba Wax.

Here is my question: According to my dealer, he says that I should wait 3 months from the completed production date before performing any type of waxing or polishing - to give the new paint time to cure. Is this true?

Thanks in advance.

Nope, factory paint is fully cured by the time it gets to you. They now use a catalyzed paint plus it's baked prior to assembly. Remember to tell the dealer not to prep the car, ie no polishing, don't remove any of the wrapping, etc if you want to do all the prep on it (probally the only way it'll be swirlfree when you get it).

I'd also recommend you clay the car when you first get it to remove any surface contaminants that were placed during shipping (usually rail dust) before sealing the paint.

Thanks for the quick reply hal9000.

About claying - that sounds kind of scary (lol). I will do a search and read up on it.

Thanks.

Give this article a try:
http://www.autopia.ws/articles.php?articleId=14

Thanks Mike62.

Has anybody here used the Pinnacle PolyClay Clay Bars and Pinnacle Miracle Clay Lube? Is the Meguiar's Overspray Clay just as good (with soapy water)?

Thanks.

I used Mothers kit from PepBoys, worked great (think others feel the same, much less expensive @ approx $12.99 and does a good job). I also have a kit of ClayMagic (haven't used this yet). I've also heard that Mothers sells just the Clay (not sure if this is on their web site for not). Just make sure you use lots of lube, and fold often.

I'll venture to say that clay from all of the big names is pretty good and pretty much the same. The only major difference would be the amount of product they give you.

I too used the Mother's and loved it. Just wish they'd give you more clay...