There is a battle at the top of the points for the drivers championship now!!!:clap: The race today started out with Alonso on the pole with R. Shummi 2nd and M Weber 3rd. At the start both the Williams cars got horrible starts and Raikkonen came up from 7th up to 3rd. Then RS spun on the 1st lap and went all the way back to last. During the race Raikkonen made his way up to second, Montoya held a steady 3rd...Barrichello went out with broke suspension. Ralf worked his way through the crowd all the way back to 4th. Final race finishing order.....
1 Alonso
2 Raikkonen
3 Montoya
4 R. Shummi
5 Coulthard
6 Weber
7 Trulli
8 M Shummi
Now this really shakes things up in the drivers championship leaving
1 MS 72
2 JPM 71
3 KR 70
And BMW passes Ferrari in the Constructers Championship:alright
And McLaren not far behind. F1 is getting better and better

Nail-biter from the get-go!

Who'da thunk even Hungary would have had so much overtaking??

Gotta give props to Ralf for a storming drive thru the field. Respect due.

Ferrari seems to be a bit down on their luck, lately.

The last twenty laps I found myself paranoid that somehow JPM would screw up. Every time the cameras were off his car for any length of time I was hoping, "Please don't blow an engine/crash/catch a backmarker/spin. And what happens with just a few laps remaining??? DOH!! Glad he kept it on the track and held his position, though. Post-race interview he seemed overly defensive, though.

Renault's light fuel load strategy really paid off with the help of Webber's Jaguar :D

Anybody else pumped up about this season???

Pretty cool that Williams is taken the lead on the constructor's championship!!! :redspot

But, sucks about MS having to play backmarker here though!!! Bridgestone better pull their act together and get a half-way decent tire before the next race. Sure hope that they manage to get something out of the test session that's coming up. I am getting pissed with Bridgestone for doing this to MS. Grrrr!!! Think I've gotta have to start thinking about dumping those S-03s just for the heck of it... :mad:

And, there you have it....Montoya making those half-assed comments once again...

"...In Turn 2 today he just threw the car at me completely, I was a bit shocked by that. If that's the way he's racing, that's the way he's racing. It doesn't really help him at the moment. ..."

...totally uncalled for. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by M3Buff
And, there you have it....Montoya making those half-assed comments once again....totally uncalled for. :rolleyes:

I could not agree more... i have no respect for juan and he least deserves to win the championship. compare his professionalism at the post-race press conference to alonso or kimi.

- he has some nerve to be arrogant after forcing his own team mate off the track at the beginning of the race.

- he 'has' to mention that he set the fastest lap. of what significance is that? he could not have won the race. he was not on pole. and alonso was just cruising to preserve the car.

- he beats micheal this one time, and he is talking like he's better than the 5 time world champion

- he said his car acted like it threw out an anchor. gotta luv his respect for his own team

- as always, eyes twiching and scratching his face with his fingers, shoulders shrugging. what a monkey.

Way to go Raikkonen... You're right back in it kid!

hell yeah!
williams is leading the constructors by 7
jpm is only one point behind in the drivers championship.

He qualified third, 0.339 sec behind Alonso, yet Alonso built an 18 second lead by the time both of them pitted on Lap 13. That's almost 1.5 sec per lap that the Renault was faster than the Jaguar at race pace.

So I'm wondering what that says about the Jaguar setup and strategy vs Webber's ability. Either:

1. Webber has great driving ability that allows him to drive the Jaguar on the limit, squeezing the best performance out of it over one flying lap, but that limit can't be sustained for multiple laps at race pace . . .

or

2. Jaguar's overall strategy included sacrificing the ideal race setup for a good qualifying setup, thereby allowing Webber to qual 3rd with a setup that can not maintain the pace for multiple laps, but still race effective on a track previously allowing very little overtaking.

Any other thoughts?

I think Alonso paid webber to hold everyone up :D
haha....j/k

Probably a bit of both. Jag knows this track is a bit diffucult to overtake so they probably put more into getting the best qualify possible. In the end Webber and Jaguar was just out driven and machined by mclaren and williams

There was mention of Ford's Cosworth blowing up 8 times throughout the weekend. I wonder if Webber wasn't going to redline on every shift at the start to possibly save the engine?

What happened to Villeneuve's car? I always have to ask about this bum.

Can MS's result be solely blamed on the tires? I don't think so.

And what about Rubens' left rear side of his car blowing up?!? Wow, awesome pictures....

Originally posted by Glenn 328is
Can MS's result be solely blamed on the tires? I don't think so.


not all the blame will go to the tires. the rest of the blame falls onto michael's race engineer. this season, michael has a new race engineer. his previous race engineer (the one whom under michael won all his world championships) stepped up to a higher role within the team.

And we all know that MS is incapable of making mistakes himself. It must be the tires or his engineer...or maybe he just had a crappy day behind the wheel?

Originally posted by BMWRacerITS
And we all know that MS is incapable of making mistakes himself. It must be the tires or his engineer...or maybe he just had a crappy day behind the wheel?

mistakes such as spinning out on your own? michael doesn't do that. that type of error is a classic juan montoya move.

michael's engineer has been making life difficult for michael. michael ran out of gas for crying out loud. i'd say michael's experience partly masks the mistakes made by his race engineer.

I haven't even seen the race, and don't know WHY MS didn't finish well...but the Godliness that you attribute to him is down right laughable. He's an excellent driver, one of the best of all times, but he makes mistakes as well.

So, in your mind, EVERY race that MS hasn't won has been as a result of someone else and not simply his inability to get the job done? Right...

Bryan,

I agree that as a human being MS can and does make mistakes, however, this year the Bridgestone tires have not performed as well as Michellin has. So its not hard to speculate that the larger part of the problem might be the tires - specially when you are talking about a driver like Shumaucher :D

Now, by your own admission you say you haven't even seen the race but you are quick to criticize others' views - based upon what ? :dunno

I was also quite surprised to see your participation in the "Frank Lin" bashing thread on the Rennlist forum :embarrasm

Russell-

My response regarding MS is more to the way that some folks on this board seem to assume he's never made a mistake in his life and less with regards to this specific race. Sounds as if MS had an excuse this race. But, at the same time, it's his responsibility as the drive to surround himself with the right people. In the past, that has been the biggest reason for his success: building the right team around him. It sounds as if he hasn't been as successful with that this year with regards to his engineer and his tires. At his level, MS get's what he wants, so he is also responsible for some of the responsibility for when things aren't going so well. When he's winning, everyone wants to say it's because HE is so great, when he's losing, it's because the TEAM sucks...

As for the Frank Lin thread, what about me surprises you that I would post there? Why should anyone be surprised that folks have responded to him in the way that they have. The guy has the ego the size of an elephant based simply on his DE "road racing" results, serious disregard and disrespect for the rules and safety at a DE event, and a long trail of complaints stretching throughout the internet (Honda-tech, Rennlist, local BMW CCA boards, and the list goes on...hell, his "fame" has spread as far as the organizers of a recent DE on the East coast) with regard to his conduct, driving, and "above the law" approach to instructing and driving at DE's. He brags about flogging students cars and uses instructing as a way to pressure students into letting him "test drive" cars on the racetrack that he couldn't even begin to afford to replace. NASA and other DE hosts have publicly stated on the internet that they are dropping Frank as an instructor, and yet he continues to believe that its nothing he's doing wrong and the entire world is to blame. Take a look at his website, and his constant need to draw attention to himself. He won't post any more on the Rennlist thread until the thread dies, then he jumps back in with a single post to bring it BTTT, and disappears again. I really think the guy may have some serious issues with needing attention, be it good or bad. When most EVERYONE (particularly people with a lot more experience, and a lot smaller egos) is telling you that you are a fool, in most cases, you are. Frank refuses to believe that he is capable of making a mistake, and looks for a way to place blame on anyone but himself. If anything, I post on that thread in order to make sure that people like Frank are called out and not allowed to ruin a sport that I love so much. If he would just take a step back, swallow his pride, and listen to some folks who know what they are talking about, he could be back on track to earning people's trust and respect in no time. For now, he'll just continue to post pictures of himself standing beside Bill Auberlen, and descriptions of $100K sports car that he "tested" (like he's some kind of driver for hire...ha).

BTW...the supposed "bashing" thread was started by and in response to none other than Frank Lin himself.

Originally posted by BMWRacerITS
I haven't even seen the race, and don't know WHY MS didn't finish well...but the Godliness that you attribute to him is down right laughable. He's an excellent driver, one of the best of all times, but he makes mistakes as well.

of course, it is understood to mean that he makes the least mistakes.

So, in your mind, EVERY race that MS hasn't won has been as a result of someone else and not simply his inability to get the job done? Right...

well, just for humor, lets look at 2002 season results. it appears that every race that micheal didn't win was infact, a result of someone else or outside influences which prevented him from winning.

Melbourne, 1st
Sepang, 3rd, Montoya collides with Michael
Interlagos, 1st
Imola, 1st
Barcelona, 1st
A1 Ring, 1st
Monaco, 2nd, Michael had fastest car of the day, but was held up by traffic
Montreal, 1st
Nurburgring, 2nd, jean todt imposes team orders, preventing micheal from overtaking reubens for the win
Silverstone, 1st
Magny Cours, 1st
Hockenheim, 1st
Hungaroring, 2nd, michael is already world champion and gave the win to reubens
Spa, 1st
Monza, 2nd, again, michael gives the win as gift to reubens
Indy, 2nd, michael gives it to reubens again!
Suzuka, 1st

but seriously, michael is the best. thinking all the way back to 1994 when he lapped the field in a dog of a benneton/ford V8.

Originally posted by pikachu
mistakes such as spinning out on your own? michael doesn't do that. that type of error is a classic juan montoya move.


Actually, Michael did do that. He was leading the USGP by a very large margin, was not pushing, and spun in the infield.

While tires do play a significant role, they're certainly not the only factor. When Coultard came out of the pits for the second time, he came out in front of MS. Coultard was on a 2 stop strategy and was on cold tires, yet MS couldn't pass him. That should have been the most advantageous situation for Michael, but he couldn't take advantage of it.

Ferrari's and MS's troubles this year have certainly made for an interesting championship.

Dave

Originally posted by Glenn 328is
There was mention of Ford's Cosworth blowing up 8 times throughout the weekend. I wonder if Webber wasn't going to

The Jordan team pays Ford/Cosworth to use last year's Cosworth engine. Anyone know which of those engine blowups were Jaguar motors and which were Jordan's?

Jordan's engine problems may not relate to the Jaguar motor.

hey watts.... GREAT POST. Its always good to hear from the passionate professional.

Just finished reviewing the Hungarian GP (hey, it's two more weeks until Monza, season's over in three races: early withdrawal symptoms :dunno)

Watched the start several times.

JPM didn't force his teammate (Ralf) off the track. Ralf made mistakes in Turn 1 behind Trulli (running wide/oversteer/got four wheels off/had to lift) and in Turn 2 behind Michael (locked his fronts/ran wide onto dirty side of track/spun). JPM wasn't a factor.

The tire situation is getting interesting now with neither the FIA nor Michelin willing to give in. What's up with Michelin threatening that the 5 teams shod with their tyres might not make it to Monza? :eek: Hmmm! Are teams allowed to withdraw from races like that? Isn't that a violation of the Concorde agreement? Damn! The next two weeks are definitely going to keep me glued for F1 news updates.

:clap:

Originally posted by pikachu
- he beats micheal this one time, and he is talking like he's better than the 5 time world champion

Actually he has beaten Micheal quite a few times, just look at his heavily cemented first place win at the last F1 race in Germany. I think that its pretty safe to say that he is currently second best and moving closer and closer to Micheal's level. With all of Ferrari's cheating, the largest development budget and the team doing everything they can to have their car going 100%, I find it humerous how Micheal has had such a long streak of losses recently and is usually blaming it on everything but himself.

Originally posted by pikachu
- he said his car acted like it threw out an anchor. gotta luv his respect for his own team

Hes stating the truth about how his car performed, I don't think hiding anything about your car's performance puts you into a position of "not supporting your own team".

Taken from Montoya's column in "Autosport", Aug 28, 2003--

. . . But I couldn't believe what happened at the start. I let the launch control button go on the grid and everyone went past me like I wasn't accelerating. It was as though someone had thrown an anchor out to slow me down.

I don't think the problem with my start was anything to do with the car. I think it was far more to do with the track being so dirty on the side that i started from. People on the right-hand side had a slower start than those on the left, and I mentioned this to the race director after qualifying because there was no chance to clean the track like we could do last year, as there is no race morning warm-up. It's horrendous, really, and something that needs to be looked at.

I think his "anchor" comment was to call the attention of the race organizers and FIA to the problem of the "dirty" side of the tracks being that much dirtier this year --without pre-race warmup-- and having a large effect on car performance at the start.

Hungary has a reputation for being a dusty track.

Of course Michael Schumacher makes mistakes. To claim anything else is ridiculous. While he is extraordinarily consistent, he's far from perfect - as evidenced by the fact that the BMW-Williams team, with a less refined chassis, is 8 points ahead in the Constructor's Championship ;)