Ok....so this guy wants more power out of his 328 vert. He starts looking at superchargers and decides on the ESS kit.

A few of us tried to talk him out of it and mentioned our opinions on what he should do. (Cams, a different charger or turbo, or sell the 328 and get an M3 vert with the money.)

All to no avail.

1 week later...

Me and a friend (Kevin) were back at the shop checking the progress of a cam kit install on his 97 M3...just as they were finishing the supercharger install on the 328. This was our lucky day. The car would be finished in time for us to see it's new capabilities and trust me...we were anxious to see what it could do.

In the mean time mr_green had also showed up to see how everything was going. We talked about cars for awhile and told any new stories we might have from the previous week. After 30 minutes or so of chatting we heard the 328 start up. It was time to put ESS' kit to the test.

There is a great stretch of road leading the the cul de sac where the shop is located. Rarely driven and decently smooth; perfect for a little drag racing. Since Kevin's car was about to be worked on we didn't want to heat everything up. We decided to run mr_green's 97 M3/4 against the vert and see how much the boost helped the 2.8

mr_green's M3:

M50 manifold
Pullies
Supersprint Exhaust
Eurosport Intake
Fan Delete (now put back in)
ASC delete
Sharked
Lightweight Flywheel
...chime in if I missed anything

328ic:

ESS supercharger
Software

We couldn't get a run of my car and the 328 so I ran up against mr_green's M3 to try and compare my car against his and to get an idea of what my car would do against the SC328.

There are no launches involved. I think gearing played an even bigger role in the outcome of the two races for this reason. We all started at a roll @ 2000 rpm in 1st gear, side by side, and counting to get simultaneous starts.

Silverstreak...I know, I know, I have read your posts. Just humor me. There are a lot of us that see this as a valid form of racing.

Now you can download and watch the video. (4.62MB) VIDEO DOWNLOAD. (http://www.imagestation.com/video/view.html?id=4220071510&dl=1) Before continuing! Right Click & "Save As". I don't want you to know the outcome before you see the video. I hope the link works on the first try.

Oh yeah the owner is just pulling in (the old silver civic in the end of the first clip) as we go rocketing down the straightaway in his car. :devillook Just when I was about to get a turn behind the wheel. :(



I am not sure if the supercharger was running right. For all I know the kit just sucks and doesn't really make the kind of power ESS claims. (291bhp)

Does anyone else have experience with this kit? Have you had better luck?

I guess there were a few peices that had to be custom fabricated to make everything fit. Not exactly complete.

As for my car...
Now I just need to bolt on a real exhaust, headers and get pullies. I want to be beating M3's not hanging behind them. My goal is to reach 280 bhp (100/liter). Then I can start thinking about a rebuild, higher duration cams, 3.46 lsd, and a turbo.

*edit*
Fixed the video link :rolleyes:

UPDATE: The supercharger is coming out. Reason: He hates it. (SUPRISE!).

Ok, the link doesn't exactly work the way I would have liked. I am hosting the video in imagestation (it's my only choice) so let me know if you can't download it.

Is anybody willing to host it somewhere else?

*edit*
Try this one...

Racing Video Download (http://www.imagestation.com/video/view.html?id=4220071510&dl=1)


Sounds like the video is working now.

I'm sorry but after watching the video, I've come to the conclusion that the ESS SC sucks!:laugh

Your car with the Normally Aspirated mods fared much better!:buttrock

Is it me, or did you do the same, if not better than the SC 328i cabrio?

Looks like that's what happened Iniquity. That's a shame.

How many SCs bolt on and run their best? Did anyone dyno it?
Was it creating power? What's the AFR? Isn't there supposed to be a short breakin period?

If none of that was done he's lucky he even still has his engine.
I hope he has it checked out before he just has it removed.

What a waste of money!

"Silverstreak...I know, I know, I have read your posts. Just humor me. There are a lot of us that see this as a valid form of racing."

Well, it's not a vaild form of racing in the format of being worthy as a consistent tool for measuring anything of any value when it comes to making comparisons of any kind.

But, it still sounds like you had fun, so who cares.

However, if you really want to call it racing and use the outcomes as a measure of anything, learn how to launch, learn how not to be afraid of a launch, take it to the track for accurate measure, and have at it...

As far as it being "valid", I don't know any tracks that have "from a roll" tracks, so that could be your first clue to it's validity... ;)

:D

The extra weight of the vert can't be helping either....:dunno

I just cant believe how badly that 328 lost. Are they sure they installed everything? Not just mounted the SC on the engine:biglaughb

I've heard good things about ESS kits. Well I guess this is proof that you shouldnt always believe what you hear. Looks like that guy shouldve gotten a supercharger at some place, I dont know if any of you have heard of it, its called AA. (Sarcasm)


Tom

But, it still sounds like you had fun, so who cares.

Thanks Silverstreak. You made my day. ;)


Speedfreak:

We did not dyno it. It may not have been creating ANY power. We had no idea what the AFR was. We were breaking it in. :devillook

He won't bother to have it checked before having it removed. That's how he is. I am almost positive that if they took out the ESS software and custom programmed the ECU along with a few trips to the dyno along the way he would see most of the power ESS claims.

I was under the impression that he should have had a lot more power than that. The software in the kit should have already been dyno tuned. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of the "KIT"? Let me see if I can find the website...

How many supersharger kits complete with software just bolt on and make the right amount of power???

Is it me, or did you do the same, if not better than the SC 328i cabrio?

I did better.

I say you throw that S/C off a cliff :D

Originally posted by arrogantBMWdriver
Looks like that guy shouldve gotten a supercharger at some place, I dont know if any of you have heard of it, its called AA. (Sarcasm)

At least we know it would have worked. (and spanking both of us) The really sad part is the money involved. He ended up at $10k after the ESS kit was installed. How much does AA charge to install their $10k turbo kit?

I am sure you can find something better to do with that charger than throwing it off a cliff.... I'm just out of creative ideas right now. ;)

I bet AA can take care of his problems with the correct tuning.


We were breaking it in. :biglaughb

The S/C'd 328 must not have been tuned correctly, but for ovr $6,000.00 you would think everything would work properly. However Euro4lifes car pulls pretty damn hard for being a N/A 328. I know I am able to pull way from stock M3's about the same if not a little less then I was agsinst Euro4lifes car. Making his car be at least M3 fast. Tonight I am going to run with a budy who just did the JC cam kit. We want to see the difference it makes, before we instal my kit on Friday. I will post the video.:D

Damn... for all that trouble, why not sell the 328i vert and get an M3 vert and then have a bit of money left over to mod it a tad. A much better package overall from the box, with more ultimate potential.

Seems like this guy is an impulse buyer though. Really no way to satisfy people like that.

Originally posted by Def
Damn... for all that trouble, why not sell the 328i vert and get an M3 vert and then have a bit of money left over to mod it a tad. A much better package overall from the box, with more ultimate potential.

...and it comes with all the little suspension pieces and stuff that make it an M car.

Yup. We tried to talk him into buying the M3 vert. Some kids just don't listen/never learn.

He could have bought the M and put the cam kit in it for cheaper than he is into the 328ic. His car would have been faster, looked better, and handled better.

I'll trade him a stock airbox for the kit :stickoutt

mr_green rocks the casbah.

Originally posted by CMT
mr_green rocks the casbah.
yep he kicked my asssssssssssss 2 nghts ago

Originally posted by twelve-o-three
yep he kicked my asssssssssssss 2 nghts ago

Plus his .sig is seriously kickass. Great pic!

Why doesn't your friend try AA software before turning it out?

Hardware is hardware you know, with the right parts, every kit
is almost the same, just the difference is in the software. Everyone
who has had software problem, has tried AA and AA ALWAYS
SOLVES everyones software problem / tuning needs.

Why don't you give Karl a buzz @ AA?

For that price, just go with the turbo :)

Originally posted by SilverStreak

As far as it being "valid", I don't know any tracks that have "from a roll" tracks, so that could be your first clue to it's validity... ;)
:D

I disagree in this case. Starting from a roll eliminates driver launch error, and in fact the idea of this was to compare cars, not drivers. :)

Mr. Green Rocks!

As far as buying an ESS.. already shows a buyer without research. Heck, 10K spend at AA and you wouldn't keep the car straight down the road.

However I'm in most agreement with it being stupid to rip it out right away. Took me about a year to make my kit work well, part time here and there.

Originally posted by CMT
Plus his .sig is seriously kickass. Great pic!

Actually I took that pic...

I thought about buying the kit afterwards and getting some custom software to make it run. It's just not exactly the smartest move right now. :(

Its a convertable so its heavier, they just installed it so it hadnt adapted probably at all, its an obdII and the guy sucks at shifting... maybe

Originally posted by twistedbydsign9
Its a convertable so its heavier, they just installed it so it hadnt adapted probably at all, its an obdII and the guy sucks at shifting... maybe

The guy driving was actually a real good driver, not the owner;)

As for racing John is right we were not trying to compare drivers only cars.

We are just finishing up installing my JC cam kit, so you can expect more video to come

:D :D :D

Thanks guys!!!!:buttrock

Originally posted by euro4life
Actually I took that pic...

Then you should feel nicely complemented.

Originally posted by CMT
Then you should feel nicely complemented.

That I do.

Thanks!

Your pic, I must say, is better. It has some real character, not to mention the exposure looks perfect. How many shots did it take to get that? ;) . I get about 1 good shot per 5-10 lame ones. :rolleyes: For some reason I find it easier to waste film/memory when using a digital camera.


BTW I remember seeing you on DTM quite often back in the day... I was more interested in my VW at that time but quickly fell in l:love1ve with your car. You always keep it clean and simple. The Estoril Blue might have something to do with it as well.


JB

Originally posted by John (PA)
I disagree in this case. Starting from a roll eliminates driver launch error, and in fact the idea of this was to compare cars, not drivers. :)

Still not an "accurate measure" unless it's the same car, same tranny, same gearing, etc... ;)

It's just a crutch for people who don't know how to launch... :D

Originally posted by SilverStreak
Still not an "accurate measure" unless it's the same car, same tranny, same gearing, etc... ;)

It's just a crutch for people who don't know how to launch... :D


When launching the cars it puts the tires and LSD into the mix as well as driver ability. We didn't want any more variables

We wanted to see how the sc328 would do against the M3 in a quick side by side comparison on a back road that is less than a 1/4 mi.

What do you want here??? :dunno Everyone to think the same way you do about racing? You just seem stuck in your ways and not willing to let others enjoy their experiences without letting us know how you feel numerous times.

Yes, gearing was a big part of the race, weight as well, but the comparison [i]we[/b] (friends and I) were going for was between the sc 328ic and mine. Same gearing, transmission, engine... The owner came and we weren't able the pit my car against the sc vert. So I ran with mr_green.

All was for fun. I am not trying to get technical here.

I am just starting to feel a bit put down.

Originally posted by euro4life
That I do.

Thanks!

Your pic, I must say, is better. It has some real character, not to mention the exposure looks perfect. How many shots did it take to get that? ;) . I get about 1 good shot per 5-10 lame ones. :rolleyes: For some reason I find it easier to waste film/memory when using a digital camera.


BTW I remember seeing you on DTM quite often back in the day... I was more interested in my VW at that time but quickly fell in l:love1ve with your car. You always keep it clean and simple. The Estoril Blue might have something to do with it as well.


JB

Heh. Dude. That shot took two full dumbass memory sticks worth of pics before I had one that even remotely worked. As it is the car itself was sharpened in Pshop, but in the end the pic came out passably viewable. I just refused to give up because I desperately wanted a shot that showed Estoril's purpleness under the right light. :)

You are too kind. You probably took a liking to my car because I am one of the biggest picture-whorin' idiots in the online BMW community. Acceptance in repetition, and all that. :D

If it's all about having fun, have at it and enjoy, who cares what anyone else thinks. But if you are doing it and posting the results as if they have any accuracy for the sake of measurement, you're wasting your time...

Originally posted by SilverStreak
If it's all about having fun, have at it and enjoy, who cares what anyone else thinks. But if you are doing it and posting the results as if they have any accuracy for the sake of measurement, you're wasting your time...

Ok. :rolleyes:

Dave used to be a Christian, but he turned into a radical drag racing, start-from-a-stop extremist a few years back...
:D

:ninja: :pityfool:


:D

A word from the owner:

Euro4life
A few of us tried to talk him out of it and mentioned our opinions on what he should do. (Cams, a different charger or turbo, or sell the 328 and get an M3 vert with the money.)

All to no avail.

I’m not quite sure that I remember this discussion with euro4life.

Unfortunately there was no recommendation for a different charger or turbo at all. However the option of the cam-kit and buying a M3 were mentioned in discussions that I had with the shop owner. The reason that I went with the ESS supercharger was the higher advertised output than the cam-kit or the M3 option had to offer.

Why not go with the famous AA charger? As a matter of fact I almost went ahead with it before I even knew the shop that did the ESS install. But I heard that AA is not street legal. At that point in time the choices were Dinan or ESS. ESS had to offer more power at less cost; I found out later why…

Euro4life
Oh yeah the owner is just pulling in (the old silver civic in the end of the first clip) as we go rocketing down the straightaway in his car. Just when I was about to get a turn behind the wheel.

The next time just wait until I’m there to race you. Taking my car behind my back for racing doesn’t make you look good in my opinion.

arrogantBMWdriver
Looks like that guy shouldve gotten a supercharger at some place, I dont know if any of you have heard of it, its called AA. (Sarcasm)

Just as I mentioned above, AA was considered but it isn’t street legal.

Euro4life
We did not dyno it. It may not have been creating ANY power. We had no idea what the AFR was. We were breaking it in.

The ESS supercharger did create power and made the car pulling stronger than it did before. But it was nowhere near the advertised power. I didn’t need a dyno to figure that out. BTW, I’m really not sure that I appreciate the way you were “breaking in” my car. Again, bragging on the Internet about screwing with someone else’s car really doesn’t make you look so good in my eyes.

Euro4life
I am almost positive that if they took out the ESS software and custom programmed the ECU along with a few trips to the dyno along the way he would see most of the power ESS claims.

Well, the shop owner didn’t exactly have the same opinion. It was either to live with it or ripping it out.

Slickav
I say you throw that S/C off a cliff

Exactly what I did! Well sort of, I threw it all the way back to Norway to get at least the purchase cost back. The cost for the custom made parts and most of the labor for installation and ripping it out again made it a memorable experience.


Euro4life
Yup. We tried to talk him into buying the M3 vert. Some kids just don't listen/never learn.

Well, I appreciate your reasonable opinion although your arrogance expressing it still doesn’t make you look very good.


17PSIM3
Everyone who has had software problem, has tried AA and AA ALWAYS
SOLVES everyones software problem / tuning needs.

Why don't you give Karl a buzz @ AA?

Good point, but I’m not a fan of remote tuning. This ESS supercharger just was a big disappointment. Trying to make it work sounds like throwing even more money at a disastrous product with an uncertain outcome at best.

mr_green
The guy driving was actually a real good driver, not the owner

To be more precise, the driver was the shop owner. I’m certainly not a racing driver by any means, but I have no problem to race mr_green in Euro4life’s car.

Euro4life
When launching the cars it puts the tires and LSD into the mix as well as driver ability. We didn't want any more variables.

The variable that Euro4life seems to forget is that the clutch of his car was just slipping and didn’t allow for any kind of respectable launch. Let me rephrase that, the shop owner offered me a ride in a 328i with the cam-kit that had a worn out clutch. There is no shame in admitting that you are/were tight on money and couldn’t afford to replace the clutch obviously. I’m sure Dr. Dave would have settled for this explanation.

Anyway, the ESS supercharger just was a piece of sh*&#. After euro4life was finished raping my car behind my back I finished the break-in. But even then the power was not even close to my expectations. A vacuum hose that got sucked together to a solid piece of plastic doesn’t give you a lot of confidence in the quality of the ESS supercharger parts. The higher rev limit as advertised is also just wishful thinking of whoever is responsible for the software. It also produced big black clouds under hard acceleration. The shop owner explained to me that the car would run to rich; I hope that nothing else but the bad software was responsible for these nasty clouds, right euro4life?

Tomorrow I’ll pick up my car up with the cam-kit that seems to do quite well.

Would a M3 convertible with the cam-kit be better? Most likely, but just the cost for the M3 convertible is higher than what my car is worth plus the costs for the mods (quite a bit lower than $10K as claimed in this thread). But besides the money, I just have fun with a car that looks stock 328ic with M3 or better performance. Just a matter of taste I think. Racing customer cars behind their back is not. Bragging on the Internet about it (“We were breaking it in. ”) makes it even worse.

You are right. I stooped to an all new low and created a new meaning for the word 'rude'. Sorry about ripping on your car behind your back.

If I did end up having a chance to drive it I probably would have turned it down in the end anyway. I have a hard time driving someone elses car. You on the other hand were welcome to test mine, but like you said, the clutch sucks and driving it wouldn't have been too fun.

That sucks that the kit didn't work out very well. On the other hand it is cool to see you putting the Eurosport cam kit in your 328... well, I did kinda like being the only guy in UT with the cam kit in his 328. Oh well. You will be very happy with it. Let me know what you think.

Again, sorry about the rude words. I may have ruined my reputation already. Thats just life. We make decisions and suffer the consequences, good or bad.


Josh

My new clutch is in the garage waiting for me to put it in. Maybe after I get that done we could take another stab at it. ;)

Hi Josh,

I think we are on the same page now and I don’t see a reason to be mad at each other for the rest of our life.

I hope that my car will be ready today. A convertible isn’t exactly a racing car but I’d be happy to figure out the difference between your and my car once you have your clutch replaced. Just to be fair, I also had the UUC lightweight flywheel and M5 clutch installed to handle the supercharger power. The stock clutch would have been more than sufficient for the ESS crap.

There is more to say about ESS but my post was too long already.

Finally, I can respect someone who admits a mistake in ‘public’.

Let’s get back to driving buddy.

Uli

whats the best Bang for Buck supercharger available for a 328? (dont say AA, cause im not taking my car to florida . :) )

Take it to Canada, closer for you and they have a distributor in Markham, ON.

It sounds to me like you should have tried more tuning on that ESS kit before you trashed it. I understand the frustration (as I have had planty myself on my 328i) but boost can be very complicated and if $1k more dyno tuning the engine would have resulted in a better performing car I would have done it. From what you describe it sounds like the car was running too rich (which can be fixed with software, injectors, or more boost) and that extra day on the dyno would have made all the difference. Good luck with the cam kit and let me know how it comes out, I plan to do it in the near future.

Wow. You brought this thread back from the dead.

Uli's cams have been in for awhile now.

You'll be happy with the M3 cams. My dyno is posted on the Eurosport website (link in sig) or in the driveADDICT link in my sig. (Photo album. Picture is toward bottom.)

supercharging will NEVER be as impressive as turbo...


:buttrock

Originally posted by boostedhypeR..
supercharging will NEVER be as impressive as turbo...


:buttrock

I don't know about that anymore. (http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com/supercharger.html)

Those Twin Screw chargers are looking really impressive. Numbers have increased since first posted dyno chart.

M3 3.2 I6: 364rwhp@8.5psi 300ftlbs@3000rpm...

Originally posted by euro4life

M3 3.2 I6: 364rwhp@8.5psi 300ftlbs@3000rpm...

:eek:

look at custom turbo kits built across the boards 400whp and 400wtq a supercharger will never compare to turbo.

Originally posted by m3racer36
look at custom turbo kits

http://clawww.lmu.edu/faculty/fjust/Images/mushroom-cloud.gif

Originally posted by m3racer36
look at custom turbo kits built across the boards 400whp and 400wtq a supercharger will never compare to turbo.

At comparable boost? No way!

You can't compare a turbo running 12-15psi to a Twin Screw at 8.5. Who says the boost can't be turned up to 15psi on the TS?

The 1.7L Opcon TS will max out around 500rwhp. There is plenty of room to expand. The largest pulley is being used right now.

They have two completely different dyno's too. The TS hits max torque around 2500rpm and stays flat while the horsepower keeps climbing. The car is fast because the power is useable EVERYWHERE across the rev band. The area under the graph is very large. No massive torque peaks that make pretty dyno numbers.

You may be right that a day on the dyno and another $1k would have fixed everything. But then again, you’re betting your money on a product that was very disappointing from the start regarding performance and quality. I decided to cut my losses with ESS, writting it off under lessons learned, waiting for the Twin-Screw Supercharger.

In the meanwhile the Cam-Kit from Eurosport pushed the performance of my 328iC to M3 level. This upgrade fulfills its promise 100%. Not one problem since installation. The mostly linear power output of the kit eliminates the annoying power decrease of the stock engine above 5,500 RPMs. However, the additional power is only developed if you keep the engine running above at least 4,500 RPMs. That means that you always have to shift at redline and downshift in time to stay in the fun-zone.

The cam-kit is worth the money. The Twin-Screw is significantly more expensive but it also develops far more power over the entire rev-band. It feels like a V8 to me and the engine revs effortlessly like you expect it from a BMW I6 engine.

I’m happy with the Cam-Kit from Eurosport. I will be even happier when Josh MacMurray will install the TS this spring. Then it won’t matter which gear you have selected. Plenty of torque is important to me who wants a fast car with four seats and nothing but blue sky above my head. I leave the 15 PSI turboed Dyno Queen for somone else. :k:

How much was that cam kit installed? Can it be done on a 528, because it is the same engine?

Originally posted by eric77
How much was that cam kit installed? Can it be done on a 528, because it is the same engine?

It can be done on an E39 528.

I can't really remember what everything came to installed. Maybe Uli remembers.

Nice to see you post again Uli! ;) Your opinion/advice is always appreciated.

Does it give you 40 hp at the crank or at the wheels. I read the eurosport dyno sheet and I am assuming it is at the wheels. So what is 209 hp at the crank? 230?

That would be 40 at the wheels. A dyno measures torque at the wheels.

209rwhp = 246bhp (I multiply by 1.18)
190ftlbs = 224ftlbs@crank

Pretty cool mpeg, too bad the S/C didn't work out for your buddy. I was thinking about SC my 328 a few years ago, I'm glad I was talked out of it. I ended buying an M3 to work on instead.

Cool pics on ImageStation!

Originally posted by BlkDinanM3
Pretty cool mpeg, too bad the S/C didn't work out for your buddy. I was thinking about SC my 328 a few years ago, I'm glad I was talked out of it. I ended buying an M3 to work on instead.

Cool pics on ImageStation!

Nice choice on the M3. The only thing holding me back is insurance. It's high enough as is. I just can't help but keep modding my 328... :( I try to justify everything by telling myself I can swap all the really good stuff over. :rolleyes:

Thanks for the compliments on the photo album, it really means a lot. Nobody has ever said anything before. The only problem with Imagestation I can see is the PITA of registering before you can see the pictures. Trying to fix that...

Hi Josh,
Thanks for the kind words. I rarely post because there are much more competent people on this board than me. But I usually read every other day at least your TS thread to get the latest news.

Eric,
Josh MacMurray from Eurosport made a special price for me since he did some more work on my car than just the cam kit. Anyway, there is only one way to find out what it really would cost you: Call him @ 801 886 2185.