My engine's makes a fairly loud ticking noise a bit like a tappety sound. It is rev dependent and happens at all revs and I can hear it from in the cabin while I'm driving. I have changed the oil and have put in relatively thick oil (can't remember the viscosity but I remember choosing oil at the thick end of the scale - i think it was 10/50). With the hood up it sounds like it's coming from one bank. It used to do this when it was cold and then magically disappear, now it's doing it all the time. Any ideas?

My engine's makes a fairly loud ticking noise a bit like a tappety sound. It is rev dependent and happens at all revs and I can hear it from in the cabin while I'm driving. I have changed the oil and have put in relatively thick oil (can't remember the viscosity but I remember choosing oil at the thick end of the scale - i think it was 10/50). With the hood up it sounds like it's coming from one bank. It used to do this when it was cold and then magically disappear, now it's doing it all the time. Any ideas?

Hydros, in my opinion, but difficult such a from-far-away-diagnostic...

Lifters, have the same issue with my E32 when cold - will be replacing soon.

Thanks Harry - but I don't even know what Hydros are :embarrasm? Would recording a sound clip help?

Hydros-Hydraulic Lifters,

A split in an exhaust gasket can cause a sound vaguely similar to a sticky lifter. You sure it's not a Exhaust leak? Does the car wobble at the light? Pull out and check your spark plugs. One is probably wet and smell of fuel.

Hydr. Valve pushrod - part# 11 33 1 712 010
They are the same as the ones used on the following cars:
E30, E36, E46, E34, E32, E38, AND E36. They should be easy to locate, the hard part is getting to them, you have to remove intakes, etc. This is a prime example of Mission creep - alot of stuff to look at while you are in there.

Thanks guys, intakes is on my list anyway (has been for a while now...:rolleyes) so I'll get the lifters done at the same time. As the weather gets colder here the intake problem gets really bad and cold idle sounds like a bag of spanners, so I'll get it done soon. What else should I replace while the intakes are off? Also is the lifter issue just annoying or could it lead to something bad happening if left unfixed?

The lifter issue starts as being annoying, and I imagine it can't be good in the long run. I would think that the ticking is an indication that parts are "crashing" together, rather than a smooth process - I would say increased wear.
If you are going to do lifters, do the valve stem seals as well. They can be done with the heads in the car (I did the last three sets that way). Also check for banjo bolt tightness on the oil sprayer bar. You will definately want to make sure you check and adjust the cam timing as well (mine were off by 3 degrees on one side 6 on the other-you will notice the difference latter). Great time to have the valve covers painted/powder coated. Go with powder coating - it lasts much longer, especially when raw fuel gets involved. Valve cover gaskets and general cleaning are naturally in order as well.

I would change back to thinner oil, sometimes that helps. I would not allow the clicking to go on for too long. The hydraulic lash adjusters are there to take out any clearance in the valve train and prevent clicking, The valve train isn't designed for clearance so any clicking can be described as a very small hammer noise, this can lead to accelerated valve problems. It also reduces performance be cause it delays valve opening and quickens valve closure.

+1
A friend solved his problem with a synthetic lighter oil, It was also not feeding the cams good when it was too thick.

Had a car here two days ago with a loud ticking which was traced to the Oil Filter Housing - 5 days after an oil change. Replaced the plastic support in the filter and noise was gone. Cheap and simple.

Was it that Dome thingy? Tia!

It´s the evolution of the ticking sound - first sporadically, then permanent - that gives me the idea of the hydros. Does it sound like a cold early rabbit diesel? :D
Lighter oil might help for a while...

Yes it was the dome thingy that fits inside the filter element.

:coolSEA FOAM.... sounds like you guys forgot about it.
Nick, before spending any money drive to the closest autozone and buy a can of sea foam($10)-make sure it is motor kind not tranny- put it in the oil and run the car or drive it around 1-2 hours and the sound will go away for ever. (change your oil after that and use the right kind for your car). I used this before on 740s and 540s and it does the trick.other members on here used it too and they were satisfied too.

Chaps, sorry to dredge up this old thread but i'm finally ready to do something about it. I tried a sea foam like product (Tru-Blu) as I couldn't find Sea Foam in the UK, then I changed out the thick oil for 5w-40 synthetic. Ticking is still there - i've only done 30 miles or so but i'm guessing the thin oil would have worked straightaway.

I'm sure it's not the oil canister as I checked that when I changed the oil.

I have bought a couple of lifters (that could mean something else in the UK! ;)) and I'm thinking about going for it. I've been messaging Gerry in the UK and he's prepared to rent me all the tools, but he's got me worried that the job is too complex for a novice (which i still am). I then read something in an RF archive where some guy had a ticking engine and it turned out to the a light valve and piston collision as he cam timing was so far out. :eek:. I want to have a go as I love trying this kind of thing, but I don't want to find myself with a dismantled engine and no idea how to get it back together again.

What do you guys think?

i'm interested to see what happens here. I had a ticking on cold starts also....But its gone for the mo. Something tells me I'm next:)

The 15w-50 Mobil1 makes me tick. Going back to 10w-40 next oil change.

Hello

I would get a decent oil filter either Mann or Hengst and also try a good fully sythetic motor oil such as Mobil or Castrol.

I'm not sure wheter the v12 had any issues on oil pump nuts becoming lose, if so take the oil pan off and see whether there are any blockages in the suction tube or lose pump.

how many miles on you car? which side is doing it?

145k miles, it's the US driver's side I.e. Fuse box side. I'm almost certain the noise is coming from the front side of the heads on that bank, so lifter, broken rocker or something valve related makes the most sense. Is there any way to diagnose without stripping it down? Would a video with sound help?

I would'nt drive it until i open it, If it's constant, Somethings been damaged already or is about to be! It's not complicated to tare down, Just time consuming.

Well I've had a fun day taking the intakes off today. It was a pain but I go there in the end and this is what I found....

The cam shaft lobes for cylinder number 2 look horrid...
288560
288561
288563

Two of the banjos were loose, this one was almost out
288562

And look at that valve cover :eek:
288564

I'm worried about the cam shaft and what has caused the bad colour, it's scored with big black ridges on each side, do I need to get it grinded?
What could have caused this? Could it be a bad lifter?

Could the bad cam section be due to oil starvation due to the loose banjos? The really loose banjo in the picture is between two sets of cam lobes that are in good shape, so that doesn't make sense. The banjo by the bad section was finger tight but was still screwed in all the way. Does anyone know what's going on with my grundged up cam lobes? I'm tempted to replace the two lifters in the bad section and tighten/loctite all the banjos and leave it at that, is this a reasonable plan?

hi nick; there was a thread a few weeks ago over the banjos coming loose. the solution was to drill the cap of each bolt and wire them together. as used in aircraft manufacturing. I can't help with the cam problem. outher than I do have a pair of heads. still on the car. they may be damaged from a boilover but are compleat with all parts.

Could the bad cam section be due to oil starvation due to the loose banjos? The really loose banjo in the picture is between two sets of cam lobes that are in good shape, so that doesn't make sense. The banjo by the bad section was finger tight but was still screwed in all the way. Does anyone know what's going on with my grundged up cam lobes? I'm tempted to replace the two lifters in the bad section and tighten/loctite all the banjos and leave it at that, is this a reasonable plan?

The black edges aren't an issue on the cam itself since the drag lever does not make conact across the entire cam lobe face. The scoring needs to be addressed. If you run your fingernail across the lobe, can you feel any grooves? If not you can take some 400 or 600 grit wet sandpaper (emery works also) and "clean the lobes (basically polish them back to a smooth appearance. Do not get too aggresive, you only want to take the deposits off.
The dark "stuff" looks like built up oil. As for the banjo bolt issue, clean well with solvent, get new aaluminum crush washers and use locktite on the ends.
The valve covers need to be stripped and powder coated. Few will say painting with high-temp paint works well, but from experience (have done it both ways) the paint will not last and will look like crap pretty soon after you have put all of it back together.
Use a lighter weight oil and you should be good to go.

Thanks Greg. It looks to me that those cams and rockers have got very hot (hence the black crud) due to lack of oil. The cam lobes have been worn away more than the others, as there is a noticable groove where the rocker has been. I can feel grooves when I run my finger over the lobes. I'm worried that the hardening may have been worn away.

I'll do what you suggest and try to smooth it down with sandpaper. Then I plan on changing the two rockers and lifters, tightening the banjos, checking the timing and putting it all back together (after cleaning, etc). It will be next weekend now.

I don't want to spend a fortune on this so unless I really have to change the cam shaft i'm not going to.

Thanks Greg. It looks to me that those cams and rockers have got very hot (hence the black crud) due to lack of oil. The cam lobes have been worn away more than the others, as there is a noticable groove where the rocker has been. I can feel grooves when I run my finger over the lobes. I'm worried that the hardening may have been worn away.

I'll do what you suggest and try to smooth it down with sandpaper. Then I plan on changing the two rockers and lifters, tightening the banjos, checking the timing and putting it all back together (after cleaning, etc). It will be next weekend now.

I don't want to spend a fortune on this so unless I really have to change the cam shaft i'm not going to.

not Greg - I am Steffen
you are welcome anyway... :) :) :)

Steffen - I'm easily confused, sorry - thanks for your help.

I'm still confused why one set of cam lobes/rockers would have gone bad, but all the others were fine. I guess it must be oil starvation, but the really loose banjo was nowhere near, any ideas why? :confused

I also meant to ask what's the best way to clean the insides of the intakes? The section by the injectors are really clogged up with black crud. The injectors weren't a pretty site, but i'm sending them off to be ultrasonically cleaned. You should see the IM gaskets as well...really cracked and covered in shite :eek:. I got some used ones off ebay that look close to brand new ;)

Well, if you look at the banjo bolts, I would imagine that all 4 play a role in even distribution of oil. I would definately check to see if the little drip holes are plugged. Take the distributor bar off and clean very well with solvent. Blow compressed air through and see if all the holes are free.
I cleaned the inside of the intake ports with a cotton cloth (lint free) and have it soaked in solvent as well (I use carb cleaner). You will go through a bunch of rags, but it will come clean. When you go to re-install your IM gaskets, make sure that they are free of cracks and that they are also free of oil and/or grease. I used a silicone RTV called REINZOSIL (made by the Victor Reinz Co.) to put a small bead at each port location on botjh the head side as well as the intake runner side. Follow the instructions on th eRTV and you will be good to go.

Thanks a lot Steffen.
I did remove the spray bar and the holes all looked clear, but I will clean it properly. One last question then I'll shut up...
Does the oil get pumped to the spray bar from the front, back or both?

oil gets pumped up the center of the bearing blocks @ 4 locations. The driver side (on US cars), is the end of the oil cycle, i.e. the last parts to get lubricated, which is why it is the first to suffer damage.

Well, I've had a lot of fun the weekend! Checked the cam timing, replaced a couple of lifters and rockers, loctited banjos, changed IM gaskets, cleaned everything and put new gaskets everywhere. I've got it mostly back together but I'm struggling with a couple of the infamous IM gasket nuts. I have a long extension and a swivel, but i can't get the nuts on for love nor money. I was thinking about using a flexible extension like this http://www.justoffbase.co.uk/Flexible-Extension-Adaptor-Set-2pc-1-4-x-254mm-3-8-x-305mm-Sealey-AK7342

Has anyone tried anything like this?

Cheers, Nick

another thought, i used REINZOSIL on the intake flanges, but as I was struggling with the nuts it isn't tightened down properly. Should I take it off, clean the REINZOSIL and then reapply when I'm ready to finish the job in a couple of days? I think I know the answer to this :(

It works! Got the whole thing back together yesterday and now it runs very smoothly with no ticking at all. I'm not sure if it was the new lifters that fixed it or sorting out the spray bar/banjos but I don't really care. One thing I do know is that if I hadn't got it apart I would have trashed my cam shaft due to my loose banjos. I thoroughly recommend doing a job like this yourself, even if you're a novice. It's great fun and you really learn a lot about your engine. BTW that flexible extension i linked to above makes the intakes an absolute breeze, i got the second intake on in around 40 mins, you all HAVE to get one. Go for a long 3/8" drive version, it's great. I'll add more detail later as i learnt a few lessons the hard way.

You should use a synthetic 0W-40 to allow quicker lubrication.Post any info you can will attempt this shortly. Looks like a great tool.

OK, here goes....

So I used the infamous Sean750 write up as my start point (http://bmwe32.masscom.net/) and while it was useful it is very e32 specific and a couple of the steps were very different for our cars.

First thing I did was unplug the two fuel pump fuses and turn the car over to remove some of the fuel pressure, I then disconnected both batteries.

The engine harness is a PITA, Sean tells you to disconnect the injectors and DKs (easy) and unbolt the CPS and Cylinder ID connectors (fairly easy) then lift the harness up. Sadly it's not that easy on an e31. On the US passenger side the harness is connected to the coil plus the OBC connector and what I think are the fuel tank breather lines on the US passenger side. The US drivers side is connected to the coil, alternator and something scary under the engine (i think it's the oil level sensor plus something else). I disconnected everything from the US passenger side, but left the other side connected. This gave me enough room to move stuff around but meant the harness was a constant PITA throughout the process, although I still think I’d leave the driver’s side connected if I did it again.

You also don’t need to remove the expansion tank and fan, although it gives you much better access for cleaning but it means you have to bleed the dratted cooling system again!!!!
Remove the US passenger side intake first (that’s the intake that serves the driver’s side bank). If you do the other one (like I did) you can’t remove it as the metal fuel line blocks the intake. You can do it with a large amount of messing about but you’ll trash the threads on the IM gasket. I found removing the intakes surprisingly easy. Putting them back on….not so much.

I replaced all of the gaskets, like valve covers, grommet for VCV, etc… anything rubber basically. The valve cover gaskets are expensive but mine were shot. Also, note down all the bits and bobs that are attached the valve covers (like the manifold support brackets) as it’s not that obvious how they all go back together.

Replacing the rockers and lifters was fairly easy with the right tool. I have heard you can’t get these in the US and people have resorted to making their own. Anyone can borrow mine for the cost of postage. I did **** myself when compressing the valve as I was terrified that it would drop into the cylinder. I think I was just being paranoid though. The difficult bit was getting the rockers back into place which was very fiddly. The little cap that sits on top of the spring kept moving and wouldn’t do what it was told. I was glad I only had two rockers to do, I’d think a valve stem seal job would be a nightmare.

I replaced all of the fuel lines which required around 2.2m of line and around 20 clips. I bought this from BMW at great expense but other fuel line I’ve used has been total rubbish so I wouldn’t get it anywhere else. I also needed to replace the 8mm fuel lines that go into the DKs (fuel tank breathers?) as they were so brittle that they just snapped off.

I thoroughly cleaned the oil spray bars and banjos and loctited those bad boys down.

I also replaced the water temperature sensor that was a gigantic PITA!!!!! You need a deep 19mm socket to remove, but the difficult bit is attaching the clip back to the plug. Even with the IMs off it was like keyhole surgery. I ended tying the clip to a pair of long nosed pliers, half clipping the clip onto the plug then trying to fix it on. It must have taken me 2 hours....

Putting everything back together was time consuming but not that difficult.

The first IM is easy (again, do the US passenger side first), but the second IM appears to be close to impossible (at least for me) without the proper tools. I suggest buying new nuts and a magnetic pick up tool. If you drop one into the V you can see them with a torch if they are bright and shiny new ones. I used the flexible extension (referenced above) and a long 1/4” wobble extension. One tool worked well for some nuts and the other for other nuts. I found a swivel and lots of extensions didn’t work well for me. Whatever you do use 1/4” drive stuff as even 3/8” is too wide and will make your life difficult.

The injector clips gave me a few headaches but then I worked out that you could half put the clips on prior to plugging them onto the injectors, then you could just snap them into place. I didn’t lose any down the V but I would buy a few spares just in case.

If anything else comes to me, I’ll add it.

only have one correction: you want to use the 1/4" drive, 3/8" is too large to get between the intake tubes.

You're right, i was getting confused, you need the little one!

I've changed my original post to avoid confusing people.