Well with the news that the number 1# car manufacturer in the world is going under it made me wonder just how BMW is doing.

In Huntsville, AL I know that our local dealership was doing "fine" only to have the new car sales manager come and ask me for a job!? So it turns out they weren't doing as well as I believed.

Anyone know what's what?

Bmw is down something like 35% for this year, and it would be much worse if the Mini wasn't included in the mix.

BMW has dropped the V-10 (thank God!) will be replaced by a TT V-8, they also dropped the "new 8 series" which is also good news, but their real problem is how many leases they have outstanding. A good share of their high ticket cars are on leases and their forecast is based on lease renewal, that ain't gonna happen with our economy in the tank.

Good time to be looking for CPO.

Well they do have the 0.9% financing on the 3 series sedan.

that was a pretty smart move I think, it almost had even me!

Bmw is down something like 35% for this year, and it would be much worse if the Mini wasn't included in the mix.

BMW has dropped the V-10 (thank God!) will be replaced by a TT V-8, they also dropped the "new 8 series" which is also good news, but their real problem is how many leases they have outstanding. A good share of their high ticket cars are on leases and their forecast is based on lease renewal, that ain't gonna happen with our economy in the tank.

What is so bad about the V-10, other than the 17mpg highway and 11mpg city?

What is so bad about the V-10, other than the 17mpg highway and 11mpg city?

Any V-10 is naturally out of balance and can not be really well balanced unless balance shafts are used. (BMW doesn't)

Way to much complication, almost no availability of upgrades at a reasonable cost.

Virtually no way to get more HP, again at a reasonable cost.

Heavier then a comparable V-8 producing the same HP.

Cost to just maintain this engine will be prohibitive in the future.

Replacement cost is BIG $$,$$$, Twice the cost of a comparable HP V-8

Bear in mind that the Quandt family (in Germany) owns a controlling interest in BMW - they've had this for a very long time and will do virtually everything necessary to keep BMW going - while the company will likely take some lumps over the next 12 mos or so, it should be one of the survivors when the global economy comes around (unlike GM, Chrysler, maybe Ford,,,)

Any V-10 is naturally out of balance and can not be really well balanced unless balance shafts are used. (BMW doesn't)

Way to much complication, almost no availability of upgrades at a reasonable cost.

Virtually no way to get more HP, again at a reasonable cost.

Heavier then a comparable V-8 producing the same HP.

Cost to just maintain this engine will be prohibitive in the future.

Replacement cost is BIG $$,$$$, Twice the cost of a comparable HP V-8

So, why has Dodge and Porsche done so well with their V10's? At this point, I have owned many different types of engines... but never a v10 so I have no experience with these at all. The Viper guys are getting over 1000hp out of thier engines now with NOS, superchargers, turbos, etc...

-JRW

So, why has Dodge and Porsche done so well with their V10's? At this point, I have owned many different types of engines... but never a v10 so I have no experience with these at all. The Viper guys are getting over 1000hp out of thier engines now with NOS, superchargers, turbos, etc...

-JRW

Talk to the viper owners that DRIVE their cars, The engine is very responsive, it is a TORQUE monster, but the same statements the I made about the BMW V-10 applies also. (The viper engine is really long and heavy!)

Speed parts are not readily available and when they are they are VERY expensive, Hennessey Performance controls most of the Dodge V-10 performance upgrades.

Porsche V-10? Again, same comments about BMWs V-10 apply here, Porsche is lighter and less sophisticated then the BMW V-10 but where do you go to get performance parts? And at what cost?

Interesting. I've always thought that V10 would be real shaky, given that V8 is certainly not ideal when it comes to stability either. Well then again, many old planes used V8 and V10? I miss the M30 engine :D

I understand the "long and heavy" part of it. I guess thats the nature of the beast. I do think that when you are talking about 600+ hp from the factory with a waranty, that it should satisfy most people out there.

The Viper crowd actually has a ton of options to bring their cars up to insane power levels... 750-1200hp. Yes, Hennessey is the king daddy, but Vortech, Paxton, BTR Performance, VSP, Racing Solutions, Roe Racing, etc etc give Viper owners plenty of options.... at least more then us 8 series guys :eyecrazy.

Do you think that owners of a factory twin turbo v8 will have more performance options? I would think that they would have less... can't supercharge... and NOS might be risky.

-JRW

Talk to the viper owners that DRIVE their cars, The engine is very responsive, it is a TORQUE monster, but the same statements the I made about the BMW V-10 applies also. (The viper engine is really long and heavy!)

Speed parts are not readily available and when they are they are VERY expensive, Hennessey Performance controls most of the Dodge V-10 performance upgrades.

Porsche V-10? Again, same comments about BMWs V-10 apply here, Porsche is lighter and less sophisticated then the BMW V-10 but where do you go to get performance parts? And at what cost?

BMW will be fine. Their small market share and niche will keep it afloat. GM on the otherhand didnt really have a niche but rather produced and sold their vehicles in various low and mid-priced markets. Those are the ones really hurting right now with the downturn in the economy. New purchases and leases of BMW will definitely be down but I do not see a sell-off to another company or a merger. It was a good move though that BMW sold its stake in Range Rover to Ford. I am still in disbelief that TATA of India will be making Range Rover now.

My Viper truck makes 750hp and like 680tq. Thats with 8.3L motor. The OLD dyno sheets for the 850TT made like 440rwh and 678rwtq. With a 15% loss it is still well over 500hp and almost 780tq, out of a 5.0L engine. Wish they made a 8L or over V12... might rip the real axle right out!! Almost finished with new turbo install.

From what I've heard from family that works for BMW in Germany & abroad, sales are down 55% and leasing is down 65%. Orders are down 80%. I think I mentioned the US car makers going bust months ago. :(
If government bails them out they'll be forced to build so called green battery polutars & the so called gas guzzlers will be forced to pay a guzzle tax that will go up 50%. Good times ahead...........:crazynoel

BMW will be fine. Their small market share and niche will keep it afloat. GM on the otherhand didnt really have a niche but rather produced and sold their vehicles in various low and mid-priced markets. Those are the ones really hurting right now with the downturn in the economy. New purchases and leases of BMW will definitely be down but I do not see a sell-off to another company or a merger. It was a good move though that BMW sold its stake in Range Rover to Ford. I am still in disbelief that TATA of India will be making Range Rover now.

TATA will be making Land Rover and Jaguar!! Whoa!

From what I know and what Jag people have told me it is going to be exciting to see TATA make Jag's the first line is sexy! Sexier than the current line of Bimmers. I just couldn't fall in love with a new 3, M3 maybe, 6 maybe. But a no go on the new sedans of any series and frankly the new 1 was too stubby for me.

That's why I like the 8, it's long and sexy.

With a 15% loss it is still well over 500hp and almost 780tq, out of a 5.0L engine. Wish they made a 8L or over V12... might rip the real axle right out!! Almost finished with new turbo install.

I think you must mean 500 cu inch engine not 5L. Dodge never made a V-10 5L only 8.0L and 8.3L depending on the year.

Probably wouldn't have to go to 8.0L in a V-12, 7.0L and 48 valve, cleaned up induction system would twist most axles off!

Even more off topic, a friend has a Dodge 2500 4X4 pickup truck that hits very low 10s, think his best is 10.23s and it is a diesel!

Lucas has a nine second Diesel and it's a Rig! That's even more off, Sorry...