Hmm,

I've been tinkering with the idea of a project car for some time now.. some beat-up old car that can be turned into some sort of a beast, or at least an interesting hobby.

Hmm, turbominivans (www.turbominivan.com) come to mind. Maybe an old Mustang, or a bimmer. But there are plenty of others.. maybe something to get me around in the winter as well. Maybe something turbo, just so I can get to know the inner workings of everything.

Anyway, if anyone's in the Northern NJ region and has entertained such an idea, lemme know. Perhaps some sort of collaboration is possible.

-slay

well depending on how crazy you want to go - I'd go off the deep end.


buy an E30, any beat up E30 that you can get for cheap with a solid frame, no major accidents etc.

buy an LT1 (OBD-1) Crate Motor and Getrag 6spd

Go F-ing nuts.

-Ron

if the LT1 fits, get a 383 from GM.... :evil2

I see Dave likes my idea. :D

How about an E30 with an S70 transplant.... :)

oh yeah, the LT1 383 can fit under the hood with a little modification and the best part is that you get the factory warranty and a brand new crate motor build by hot rodders for hot rodders.

Yeah, and what's that motor cost? $3K... maybe.... :evil2

Would GM's 502 crate motor fit? :devillook

(500 hp, 575 ft lbs...)

if that, just make sure you bolt in a roll cage into the car - if not you may risk twisting it into a pretzel with all that torque.

can you imagine how funny it would be rolling into your local chevy dealer for warranty work?

You: Hi I'm here for my warranty appointment

Dealer: Welcome sir, which model car is it and the problem please.

you: it's a 1986 BMW 325es - I think one of the plugs are fouling

dealer: sir, what type of car is that again?

you: 1986 BMW 325es, why?

dealer: sir, we don't service BMW's

you: I know, that's why I'm here for warranty work.

dealer: sir, we only service GM products.

you: I know, that's why I'm here.

dealer: sir, would you like me to call your dealer for you?

you: no, I just need to get my engine serviced

dealer: sir would you like a donut?

you: certainly, do you have any boston creams?

dealer: finally something that makes sense.





....and on it would go.

:lol:

Is there a rear diff that is big enough/tough enough that would fit in an E30 that could handle the big block's torque?

yes, how do I know? because I know for a fact that there is a BMW V12 powered E30 running around in germany and there is an LS1 (yes LS1!) powered E30 running around in the USA.

from a bang for the buck and durability stand point:

the idea to take a bmw v12 is crazy for cost and maintenance from ANY point of view.

the LS1 is a great idea but now you have OBD-II related issues, it's illegal to turn back an OBD-II motor to OBD-I but that doesn't bother us. the real issue here is power, or more appropriately - cheap power. an LS1 is not a cheap engine to purchase and upgraded parts are still hard to come by.

The LT1 motor, this motor was used in EVERYTHING from boats to police cars and it is CHEAP and POWERFUL. I would consider doing this mod if I didn't already commit myself to my current Frankenstein.

-Ron

Ron, what about the crate motor from GM, the ZZ4? 4 bolt main, already built, carbs, etc... :dunno

well, if you really want to get dirty - Lingenfelter sells a complete crate motor for my Tahoe that lets it run 0-60 in 4.2 seconds and the quarter mile in sub 12's. All for "just" $14,000.00

The craziest part is that all these motors use the same engine mount locations so it'll fit in a vette, a tahoe, a caprice, camero etc.

I'm not a fan of carbs, too much dirty work involved with the old tech when fuel injectors are so much more reliable and capable of producing the same results.

To add to all this, consider the ZZ502 is also readily available and less common. 502hp and 550lb/tq are pretty nice standard numbers. True big block power - the question is....will it fit? something to think about. :D

-Ron

Yeah, that's the 502 I was mentioning above. The big block often has different mounts depending on the car.

For a cheap project car, I wonder what an S52 costs... and then mod it from there... :dunno

an S52 usually goes for 4-6k, remember I bought one for my project car. :)

(see the sig) ;)

That's not bad, then you could build it for boost, and it should bolt right in, correct?

It is a bolt in application when working with a 5spd. It's the transmission swap that's the killer with all the related parts needed to make a 5spd work and usable (diff/pedal box etc).

All the 3.2L parts are virtually interchangable with my 2.5L, BMW doesn't build cars, they build Legos. :D

Check out the link and you'll see that with the right tools and know-how, it's a very straight forward job.

Click here (http://www.rsiwerks.com/project332is/web/stage5)

-Ron

So a 3.2 S52 should bolt right in wherever a 2.5 has been? In E30's and E36's and E46's???

I don't think the E30 would like it since the tranny isn't the same and the rear needs to be beefed up but it's not a crazy idea. I have a friend (vodomagoo) on this board that has done this swap (3.0) in his E30 and it's a digustingly fast car.

basically, you need more then just the motor.

the E46's already had this done, there were 3.2L conversions in the E46 when they first came out in '99 and '00. I believe they were done by Hartge. The M54 motors also have wacky transmission computers and other computerized headaches.

I'd readily do this again in an E36 and E30 before I bothered myself with an E46 though.

Knowing that your car is a 3.0, you have an M54 motor - I don't know what's involved besides ripping everything out and starting from scratch. Atleast that's what I would do. ;)

bottom line with the swap: if you have a compatible tranny and usable rear, this will work. If not, get the rear and tranny (easy enough) and go for it.

-Ron

Oh, I wasn't thinking of it for my car, my set up keeps me plenty happy. Just thinking out loud.

So someone could buy an E36 325, rip out the motor, slap in an S52 3.2, without too much of a headache?

right - with a 325 you'll want to convert the 3.2L to an OBD-1 motor but since you already own the 325, you've got 99% of the hardware to do conversion already.

So, use an S50 vs an S52?

S50 motors are generally tired by now (or you can get a rebuild) and the S52 is more powerful in every way. Aside from the additional 200cc of displacement; in it's stock OBD-II form it produces more torque and is rumored to have more horsepower as well. I believe the conforti camp has it pegged at 250hp at the crank but nobody has tried to prove it.

the trick with moving to an S52 motor in an OBD-1 car is that you have the option/liberty of converting the motor to OBD-1 as well. This unleashes allot of power that was previously bottled up by emissions control devices and other restrictions. I don't have the details on what's entirely involved but it makes the engine scream with more power in all aspects.

the S50USB30 was produced for one model year making it harder to find. The S52USB32 was produced for 4 model years and this makes them relatively plentiful as many were produced in E37's and E36's.

S52 all the way.

-Ron

Great explanation, Ron. Then just take it to AA, get 600 hp, and there's your project car, Slay... :D

Where is slay anyway, this is his thread... :dunno

Thanks Dave, sometimes I know what I'm talking about. ;)

Hey Slay - poor guy we totally hijacked this thread. Sorry buddy.


Anyways, imagine 600hp for a 323is would be sick - imagine what the guy next to me would be saying. :D

I just need to sell the car to be able to afford the AA Kit. :(

Nah, we're planning his project car for him.... :D

you're right! and since the three of us are in jersey, we can keep an eye on him making sure he follows our outline. :D

I can hold him, you can hit him... :D

:ninja:

wait, I'm only a yellow belt in Pananandata. You're the one with the mad skillz.

Ok, you hold him.... :D

Deal

:lol: Poor slay, where the hell is he?? :D

on another note - you're already pretty aware of my own project car, right?

I figure if I ever blow the motor (total loss), I'll move up to the 4.4L V8 from a 540i. I know it can be done with a little bit of extra welding and the motor maintains the civility that a 5'er is supposed to represent.

The E39 M5 motor is out of the question I believe. It would need a motronic system (8k) to run properly. Besides, I wouldn't mind having a 344is tag on the back. :D

How much does the 4.4 cost?